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1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring
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DieselJeep
Posted 2016-11-03 1:30 AM (#525142)
Subject: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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Hello all,
I have been studying my turn signal and brake wiring, and contemplating the removal of a hideous black plastic aftermarket turn switch. Hoping to reinstall a factory switch and arm back in the column. Which got me thinking, as I was taking a glance at my tailight wiring, and the single wires going to each socket. I am not even sure everything is operating/illuminating properly. I am assuming correctly, that each light has one function from factory, ie, one is brakes/turn, the reverse, and tailight, correct? If so, which one top/bottom, should do which function from factory? Aside from reverse, I have that one figured out

My thought was, other than the reverse light, for added safety, would it be too difficult to add a 2 circut socket and bulb to the lower and upper lights? That way, all 4 bulbs would have a dim "tailight" illumination when on, 4 bright lights for braking, and two bright light for turns when either left or right circut is activated. With how distracted too many people drive these days with noses in devices 24/7, it would be a good "modernization" safety project, I thought. Might look awesome, too.

Hopefully it would be fairly straight forward, if the turn/brake light function(assuming I understand the factory operation) is re wired correctly? I was thinking, perhaps split the "tail light" from both sides independantly, to all 4 "dim" filaments, and then split the "brake/turn" circut from both left and right, independantly, to both the bottom and top? Any fuse, resistance, brake or turn switch concerns? If just a resistor or something minor to work correctly, I think the added safely and "cool" factor might make it worth the effort.

I admit, I repair wiring often on semis, and completely wired my entire jeep, which the charging system, lights, and everything has worked as should for over a year now. But the function of the brakes and turn lights on the switch in jeep were clearly labeled in the included schematic.

Creating or modifying circuts(and being yet unfamiliar with the factory Desoto switches and wiring, their values, and "correct" operation) are out of my expertise. I rather don't like fussing with wiring if I can help it.

Thoughts?



Edited by DieselJeep 2016-11-03 1:36 AM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2016-11-03 12:49 PM (#525171 - in reply to #525142)
Subject: RE: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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Location: The Mile High City

Sounds like a neat idea, Chris! One warning on the top tail light lens: use an LED light in there! The lens is so small that a continuously operating filament light may burn the inside of the lens. I learned the hard way!

A couple of related threads for you:

 

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=42562&posts=12&highlight=brake light&highlightmode=1#M512823

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=47734&posts=5&highlight=goodbye&highlightmode=1#M405497

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DieselJeep
Posted 2016-11-04 7:58 PM (#525320 - in reply to #525171)
Subject: RE: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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Lancer Mike - 2016-11-03 12:49 PM

Sounds like a neat idea, Chris! One warning on the top tail light lens: use an LED light in there! The lens is so small that a continuously operating filament light may burn the inside of the lens. I learned the hard way!"

Thank You Sir. Although it may surprise a lotta people here, I loath the idea of something so modern as an LED in my Desoto lighting. However, sounds like the best idea, rather than burn up lenses. So I will follow your lead with them. Parking brake indicator, domes, tail, ect. Looks like I will be going LED in everything save the front headlights.

Thanks for sharing the links to the threads. The contact switch idea is definately happening.

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Lancer Mike
Posted 2016-11-04 11:17 PM (#525343 - in reply to #525320)
Subject: RE: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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Location: The Mile High City
Chris, I am sad to report that the LEDs do not look right in the tail lights! Alas, whatever they look like - it is better than burning a lens! I just don't want you to have the same lens-frying experience I did. Especially on that beautiful Fireflite!

The interior LEDs all look and work great.

I will be interested to hear about your electrical conversion to have both top and bottom tail light lenses light up at the same time. That sounds pretty cool to me! Darn LEDs are not cheap!
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-11-04 11:29 PM (#525344 - in reply to #525142)
Subject: RE: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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Yeah, I was really bummed when I found out each light had only 1 function. The top light is the driving light, and the bottom is the brake & turn. I made them both operate for both functions though by using a power diode and resistor from an idea I got from Jim. See the thread about it here:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=60274&...

Now both my lights light up (with high power LED's) without having to find hard-to-get dual filament sockets. In the picture, the right is driving lights, and the left has the turn signal on so it is brighter (really hard to see it accurately in the photo). I just had to install an electronic flasher to make it compatible with the LED's.

Edited by Powerflite 2016-11-04 11:33 PM




(DualLights.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments DualLights.jpg (51KB - 185 downloads)
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2016-11-04 11:30 PM (#525345 - in reply to #525343)
Subject: RE: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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Location: The Mile High City
Chris, when I replaced the brake light switch, I also converted the lower tail light lens (brake light) to LED. I thought "now that my brake lights work, I don't want to fry the lower lens!"

It didn't work very well. Unlike the tungsten filament bulbs, the LEDs will not act as blinkers. I need to figure that one out. I don't like not having turn signals!
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2016-11-04 11:34 PM (#525347 - in reply to #525345)
Subject: RE: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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Location: The Mile High City
Dang Nathan! You make these forums awesome!
That's all I needed to know!
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-11-04 11:41 PM (#525349 - in reply to #525347)
Subject: RE: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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No problem Mike!
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DieselJeep
Posted 2016-11-06 8:00 PM (#525466 - in reply to #525142)
Subject: Re: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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Nathan is awesome. I wouldn't have a driving Desoto without his help, and hardware he sold me for near nothing.

I hate to admit it, but most of what was in that thread is Greek to me. Diodes, resistors. Uhg. I get a headache trying to absorb everything in that thread. I can solder OK, and buy some parts from Radio Shack (or wherever). So if I am understanding your final setup, you used the original single wire and sockets, a diode, and resistor, switched to the LED bulbs, and switched to an electronic flasher? Where was the diode and resistor wired in to the circuit? Sorry I'm slow to understand electronics.

And, electronic gurus, what are your thoughts about turning the "parking lamps" into "parking lamps" AND turn lights?



Edited by DieselJeep 2016-11-06 8:05 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-11-07 1:44 PM (#525512 - in reply to #525466)
Subject: Re: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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You can get the parts from www.digikey.com You only need 2 different parts from them.

300 Ohm, 1 Watt Resistor: (you need 2 of them at a whopping 26 cents each)
RSF1JT300RTR-ND

5 Amp Power Diode: (You need 4 of them at 52 cents each)
SB540A-E3/54GICT-ND

You will end up spending more on shipping than on the parts, so you might want to purchase enough for 2 vehicles in case you end up wanting to do it to another car. 300 ohms seemed to work out well for the right resistance for these LED bulbs. But if you use a different bulb, it is possible that you may want a different resistance. But 300 ohms should be about right with the 5630 LED's.

The 5630 LED bulbs are really bright. That's what I used. Something similar to this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-Red-1156-Ba15s-18-5630-1-CREE-Q5-LED-Tur...

Then get an electronic flasher from your local auto parts store. That's it.
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-11-07 1:46 PM (#525513 - in reply to #525512)
Subject: Re: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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The actual implementation looks like this. Both input lines have the power diodes on them with the lines towards the bulbs. On the driving lights, put the resistor on the input side of the diode before you connect the input wire.



(Dual Light Setup.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Dual Light Setup.jpg (192KB - 180 downloads)
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DieselJeep
Posted 2016-11-07 11:40 PM (#525553 - in reply to #525142)
Subject: Re: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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It took me a minute of studying, but I think I understand what is happening !

Thanks Nathan for the pics!!

So you are saying that I only need the one resistor for the driving light circuit?
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-11-08 1:33 AM (#525565 - in reply to #525553)
Subject: Re: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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Yes. I used 2 only because I had lower power resistors that I used in parallel. But if you purchase the resistor I showed, you will only need the one.

When you solder them together, the resistor doesn't matter which way you put it in. But the diodes must go with the white bar that is printed on them toward the LED bulbs.

Edited by Powerflite 2016-11-08 1:49 AM




(Diode.jpg)



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Attachments Diode.jpg (16KB - 179 downloads)
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DieselJeep
Posted 2016-11-08 7:57 AM (#525576 - in reply to #525142)
Subject: Re: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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One last question:
If I were to put LED's in the front parking turn light in the grill, would I have to put only one resistor and diode in there?

Thanks for your patience and massive effort to help myself, and everyone here.
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-11-08 10:47 AM (#525588 - in reply to #525576)
Subject: Re: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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No. The diodes and resistor are not required to use LED's. You can use LED's anywhere you want as long as you use an electronic flasher. Just change out the bulbs and the flasher and go. But the diodes & resistor are to used to make a single bulb react to 2 separate sources, such as brake and driving lights. The sole purpose for doing this on the backend is to get both lights on for both functions instead of having them act separately.

Edited by Powerflite 2016-11-08 10:49 AM
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2016-11-08 6:47 PM (#525623 - in reply to #525588)
Subject: Re: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring


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Powerflite - 2016-11-08 10:47 AM

No. The diodes and resistor are not required to use LED's. You can use LED's anywhere you want as long as you use an electronic flasher. Just change out the bulbs and the flasher and go. But the diodes & resistor are to used to make a single bulb react to 2 separate sources, such as brake and driving lights. The sole purpose for doing this on the backend is to get both lights on for both functions instead of having them act separately.


OK, now I get it!! ( I think). By a "single bulb" you mean a single filament bulb as opposed to a dual filament bulb?

For the combination tail/brake and turn signal light sockets, as for your 58 Dodge, is there an LED bulb available?

Or, am I missing things here?!

Thanks, Nathan.
Greg
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2016-11-08 7:02 PM (#525624 - in reply to #525623)
Subject: Re: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring


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LD3 Greg - 2016-11-08 6:47 PM

Powerflite - 2016-11-08 10:47 AM

No. The diodes and resistor are not required to use LED's. You can use LED's anywhere you want as long as you use an electronic flasher. Just change out the bulbs and the flasher and go. But the diodes & resistor are to used to make a single bulb react to 2 separate sources, such as brake and driving lights. The sole purpose for doing this on the backend is to get both lights on for both functions instead of having them act separately.


OK, now I get it!! ( I think). By a "single bulb" you mean a single filament bulb as opposed to a dual filament bulb?

For the combination tail/brake and turn signal light sockets, as for your 58 Dodge, is there an LED bulb available?

Or, am I missing things here?!

Thanks, Nathan.
Greg


I just found an 1157 LED bulb on line. Answered my own question?

Back to the election!

Greg



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Powerflite
Posted 2016-11-08 8:04 PM (#525626 - in reply to #525624)
Subject: Re: 1958 Desoto turn signal, brake, and tailight wiring



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Yep, you got it Greg. The Dodge already uses a dual filament bulb so it wouldn't need these diodes & resistors.
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