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3D Printed Parts
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ttotired
Posted 2016-07-06 6:18 PM (#516064)
Subject: 3D Printed Parts



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G,Day all
Every so often someone will talk about reproducing something or other or will complain about the cost or time taken for an item to be reproduced and eventually, someone will say "why not get one 3D printed"

Now, being the fidget that I am, I will give most things a go, but if its expensive, I will research it a bit first (I am definitely not made of money, thats why I make things if I can) so, I have looked at this 3D printing and the printers you can buy for home vary in price quite a lot and in design and (to a point) size, they are small.
The home ones print using a heated plastic cord that is ejected out of a nozzle and this nozzle wanders around a "build plate" as per the instructions sent to it from your computer and its "CAD" program slowly building your item layer by layer until its done, pretty much useless for making a "working" part, but ok to make something that you can rework to make a mold off or something

Anyway, here is a link to a site where a professional 3D Printer bloke talks about it

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/05/why-3d-printing-is-overhyped-i-sh...

I hope this gives everyone an idea of what its all about and its capabilities and mostly, its weaknesses


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ronbo97
Posted 2016-07-06 9:07 PM (#516084 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: RE: 3D Printed Parts


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A lot of these articles are geared to the hobbiest that wants to buy a home 3D printer for under 1000 and be able to print out guns and heart valves and whatever. I'm interested in what can be done with industrial-grade, state-of-the-art 3D printers. Some will print in metal, rather than plastic. I remember an episode of a video by Jay Leno, where he had a thermostat housing (IIRC) printed for a brass-era car, using the old, broken one as a model. And that was a few years ago.

Ron

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ttotired
Posted 2016-07-06 9:37 PM (#516087 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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I havnt looked into the high dollar ones like that Ron, but unless your going to set up to do it as either a part of or the whole business, the professional ones like your talking about would be way out of reach for the average person, especially for doing a small one off job. To use the thermostat housing as an example, making a mold of one in silicone, then casting it in wax, so that it could be used to make a sand mold (lost wax method) would be a lot cheaper (I think, I havnt talked to a foundry). A billet one (depending on shape) would also be cheaper to make

Anyway, when I see a lens or something that someone has actually printed be good and see that it was more economical than simply casting one (which isnt cheap either, but the silicon mold can be used a lot of times), I will be a skeptic

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udoittwo
Posted 2016-07-07 7:10 AM (#516115 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: RE: 3D Printed Parts


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I've brought the subject up here before. I think for OUR interests in particular, 3-D printing would be of extream value or at least someday soon. Many schools and libraries have 3-D printers for public use. The technology, like all technology, is advancing so fast that soon, it will be a lot less expensive and they will be regualarly using metals.

What I suggested was starting a parts library where you would take a rare NOS or perfect part and scan it and store the info for future use. Maybe whole cars 1 peice at a time?

Like you said, print it and use it for a casting form or if it is something like an emblem or script, print it in plastic and crome it and no one would know until the chrome starts to peel then print another. The purest has only so many parts left out there and they are dissapearing as fast as old car salvage yards.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2016-07-07 9:22 AM (#516119 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts


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You can never replicate stainless steel trim

By the time 3d printing is usable there will be none of these cars left that need restored... or you wont be able to drive them because of no gas
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finsruskw
Posted 2016-07-07 9:48 AM (#516124 - in reply to #516119)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts


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think a good candidate for this would be the plastic parts associated with the PW terminals the where they slip into/ontp the switches.
Dirty connections there cause heat which really screw up the plastic holders.
If any of you have been into these you know what I mean.
I'm sure Greg could elaborate on this a bit more.
BTW, Greg, are you going to make the WI 300 Club meet this Sept??

Edited by finsruskw 2016-07-07 9:50 AM
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Chrome58
Posted 2016-07-07 2:54 PM (#516152 - in reply to #516124)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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finsruskw - 2016-07-07 3:48 PM

think a good candidate for this would be the plastic parts associated with the PW terminals the where they slip into/ontp the switches.

Exactly what I thought a little while ago !!

Furthermore, I have several missing or broken.
I started working on a 3D model on Sketchup, and I intend to reproduce them that way.
As soon as I finish the 3D file, I'll share them here.




(4-way.png)



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finsruskw
Posted 2016-07-07 6:31 PM (#516169 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts


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That would be great as I have a new harness from Greg for my 300C
and have been holding off using it til I figured out connectors of some sort.

Edited by finsruskw 2016-07-07 6:32 PM
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2016-07-07 7:52 PM (#516175 - in reply to #516124)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts


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finsruskw - 2016-07-07 9:48 AM

think a good candidate for this would be the plastic parts associated with the PW terminals the where they slip into/ontp the switches.
Dirty connections there cause heat which really screw up the plastic holders.
If any of you have been into these you know what I mean.
I'm sure Greg could elaborate on this a bit more.
BTW, Greg, are you going to make the WI 300 Club meet this Sept??


The plastic parts are really needed. I have several hundred of the metal terminals in stock so no problem there.

I think Herb McCandless mentioned to me that he was also going to look into 3 D printing of these.

The single switch parts interchange for a number of years but the master switch parts changed slightly for 60 and later. The difference is not obvious.

This fall looks really busy, Dave, but we'll see what we can do.

Greg
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mstrug
Posted 2016-07-07 9:04 PM (#516185 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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Some info:

https://3dprint.com/106539/bmw-25-years-of-3d-tech/

http://www.materialsreview.com/aluminium-3d-printed-car-parts-comin...

Edited by mstrug 2016-07-07 9:08 PM
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udoittwo
Posted 2016-07-08 5:19 AM (#516202 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: RE: 3D Printed Parts


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I've never actually seen one used or the parts they can make. What about the vacuum nipples for the heater control switch? These nipples often powder and the NON-AC vacuum controls are top $. Again, never seeing or handling a finnished product, are they as solid as an original peice and can they make rubber products such as vacuum diaphrams?
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mstrug
Posted 2016-07-08 6:48 AM (#516205 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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No rubber yet as far as i can tell. But metal and Hi quality at that is in!

http://www.madeinalabama.com/2015/06/ge-aviation-readies-first-3-d-...

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ronbo97
Posted 2016-07-08 7:45 AM (#516209 - in reply to #516205)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts


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mstrug - 2016-07-08 6:48 AM No rubber yet as far as i can tell. But metal and Hi quality at that is in! http://www.madeinalabama.com/2015/06/ge-aviation-readies-first-3-d-...

Yes, that's the future of our hobby.

Ron

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Powerflite
Posted 2016-07-08 2:31 PM (#516241 - in reply to #516209)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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I have 3D printed a number of things for my work. They do have a rubber material, but it isn't strong so it tears easily. The resolution of the metal parts is getting better, now down to nearly .012".
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ttotired
Posted 2016-07-08 6:00 PM (#516260 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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Thanks for the BMW links, I think the emblem indicates what I am getting at.

I cant wait until the technology and the process matches the hype, but theres still quite a way to go

The metal printing they were talking about, they mentioned a powder is used, but not a lot of detail. I assume it would have to be fired after manufacture or the powder is heated to molten by the machine and sprayed? Be cool to watch, but from the look of the water pump impeller, it does require finishing after manufacture

I am not a hater of this process, but I wouldnt be holding my breath waiting for high quality reproduction parts to be available "off the printer" soon

If you need a lens that no one makes, have a go at making it yourself (its fun if your a fidget) and if your good at it, you might make a few bucks, but remember, unless even second hand isnt available, 1 off manufacture isnt cheap and once the printing process gets better, this is where it will come into its own





(3dp_BMW_3dp_logo.jpg)



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oldhippie
Posted 2016-07-09 12:15 AM (#516280 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts


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just out of curiosity, is there any interest in having rare parts scanned & converted to CAD models? I work with 3D scans for a living, and have been working on converting a couple of my own parts & wondered if anyone else was thinking of it? I also might have a source or two for either 3D metal sintering or CNC machining, but haven't contacted them yet for pricing.
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ttotired
Posted 2016-07-09 5:25 PM (#516315 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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Rare parts covers a lot of bases :), Anything shiny and new would sell provided it was a very close match to an original part

The hard part is what part do you make? It has to be something that there is going to be enough interest in to be able to sell enough of so the set up (and tooling, if required) time and costs can be spread over enough parts to bring the price down to what people are willing to pay

Everyone wants the machine that you wave some gadget over your broken part, it does all the measuring ect for you and makes a picture in your computer that you can tidy up, then press the "print" button and in a little while, there you have it, the new bit, and best thing, all it cost was material cost for whatever you made it from.

This is possible, but the machines to do this are far to expensive for the home restorer and I will leave pricing for scanning ect to those that have the gear and expertise to do it, but to put it into a perspective, there is talk above about a power window switch plug, ok, here is a plug (not the specific plug), imagine trying to 3D scan this and print it. It could be printed, but I think it would have to be drawn, so think of the time it would take to measure and draw and print, then how many would you need to make until you could get it down to a reasonable price (these plugs sell in a kit for about $5.00 with terminals)

Maybe 1 or 2 people would pay hundreds of dollars for one of these if it was required to make a 100 point show car, but the normal person would laugh.

Look at those NOS 60 plymouth tail lights on ebay for 2 grand (or there abouts), if they are perfect and you need them and can afford them, cool, how much to print them?





(56276__95051.jpg)



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matte
Posted 2016-07-10 8:46 PM (#516361 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: RE: 3D Printed Parts



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That BMW badge looks to be done on such a basic machine.. They make hip replacements on them and yes that's industrial but technology filters down...

As I have mentioned, I had an emblem made from scratch and paid $40AU. I could of got him to spend more time refining it but I wasn't sure if I'll keep it or get a metal one..

These are some car emblems from the net.

Edited by matte 2016-07-10 8:53 PM




(Oldtimer-logo-3d-printed-1.jpg)



(3D-Druck_Goddess_of_Speed.jpg)



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matte
Posted 2016-07-10 8:48 PM (#516362 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: RE: 3D Printed Parts



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Randoms





(random-3d-printed-objects-hand-skull-car-e1440601530281-1920x1080.jpg)



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matte
Posted 2016-07-10 8:54 PM (#516363 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: RE: 3D Printed Parts



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Working engine all parts 3d printed.. There are a few different ones getting about and even a jet engine..

http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150617-china-winbo-creates-a-full-s...

Edited by matte 2016-07-10 8:57 PM




(china-winbo-creates-full-scale-3d-printed-engine-18-3d-printers-00007.jpg)



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udoittwo
Posted 2016-07-21 8:24 PM (#517284 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: RE: 3D Printed Parts


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The plastic speaker grills that cook in the sun? Can they be made with a more UV resistant material? I would buy them at $100+ and i would buy 2. You MIGHT say that it is not worth it but maybe there are a lot of us that would buy for the right price?
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Chrome58
Posted 2016-08-11 2:51 PM (#518862 - in reply to #516152)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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Chrome58 - 2016-07-07 8:54 PM

finsruskw - 2016-07-07 3:48 PM

think a good candidate for this would be the plastic parts associated with the PW terminals the where they slip into/ontp the switches.

Exactly what I thought a little while ago !!

Furthermore, I have several missing or broken.
I started working on a 3D model on Sketchup, and I intend to reproduce them that way.
As soon as I finish the 3D file, I'll share them here.


Not finished, but coming along nicely.





(4-way.png)



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Andy1974
Posted 2016-08-11 5:43 PM (#518871 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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I have made 3D drawings of the Forwardlook emblem, 58 Fury scripts and headliner retainer strip end caps. Printed 20 parts and chrome finished them. There was no interest here in the forum. Sold them all on eBay and to people I know from other places.
It should be clear that these methods are still costly. Not the printing but the finish and the fix costs for making perfect printable drawings. The art studio I worked together told me the 3D scanners are not that far to scan small objects without a costly post processing.
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Chrome58
Posted 2016-08-12 8:48 AM (#518909 - in reply to #518862)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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I have finished rendering the PW master switch and the PW single switch plastic connectors.
I will try to have them printed as soon as possible, to check for any accuracy problem.





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(Single.png)



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Chrome58
Posted 2016-08-30 1:08 PM (#520169 - in reply to #518909)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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I have received the 3D printed sockets.
They're great and only need a little finishing touch (mainly the holes).

The connectors fit a little too tight, but that's gonna be OK (they're test wires so do not bother about the worn plastic).


Edited by Chrome58 2016-08-30 1:13 PM




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ttotired
Posted 2016-08-30 7:06 PM (#520190 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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They look good, any idea of cost yet?

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Chrome58
Posted 2016-08-31 2:50 AM (#520214 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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I had them printed as a single batch, using an online service.
I asked for a high precision layer (60µm), which I think is necessary.

The cost for the whole set was around 60 USD.
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ttotired
Posted 2016-08-31 5:41 PM (#520260 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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Thats very reasonable for those, I assume thats just the actual printing cost, not the scan/drawing costs?

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mstrug
Posted 2016-08-31 7:59 PM (#520274 - in reply to #518871)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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Andy1974 - 2016-08-11 4:43 PM

I have made 3D drawings of the Forwardlook emblem, 58 Fury scripts and headliner retainer strip end caps. Printed 20 parts and chrome finished them. There was no interest here in the forum. Sold them all on eBay and to people I know from other places.
It should be clear that these methods are still costly. Not the printing but the finish and the fix costs for making perfect printable drawings. The art studio I worked together told me the 3D scanners are not that far to scan small objects without a costly post processing.


I got an emblem and Fury Scripts from Andy and they are great! Marc.
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Chrome58
Posted 2016-09-01 2:07 AM (#520288 - in reply to #520260)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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ttotired - 2016-08-31 11:41 PM

Thats very reasonable for those, I assume thats just the actual printing cost, not the scan/drawing costs?


Yes, that's the actual printing cost, without handling fees and shipping charges.
I made the drawings myself, so there was no cost there ...
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57desoto
Posted 2016-09-01 7:17 AM (#520297 - in reply to #516064)
Subject: Re: 3D Printed Parts



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Can you specify exactly which cars and years this will fit? Thank you!
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