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1961 Pioneer IBM card
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ABloch
Posted 2016-05-15 11:16 AM (#511627)
Subject: 1961 Pioneer IBM card



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Posts: 1476
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Location: Pacific Northwest
Morning,

I received my IBM card yesterday in the mail. I found it a bit of a let down. I'm sure the answer to my questions is contained in the card but I am unable to decode it. I assumed that Chrysler historical would have deciphered it ALL but merely told me what I knew already from the fender tag.

What I was really after was where the car was sold and whether or not it was an ordered car.

Secondly I want to know if and where it shows that this is a D500 packaged car.

Anything that you can tell me more about the card would be great and I thank you.



(PioneerIBM.jpg)



(PioneerDATA.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments PioneerIBM.jpg (145KB - 181 downloads)
Attachments PioneerDATA.jpg (118KB - 183 downloads)
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Rodger
Posted 2016-05-15 3:32 PM (#511648 - in reply to #511627)
Subject: Re: 1961 Pioneer IBM card


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Posts: 1506
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Location: Colo Spgs
Hola Sir

You and The Card both say the engine that came with your car is 361 cubes.

The D500 Engine for 1961 is 383 Cubes.

The 1961 Dodge Brochure has a 3.2 Ratio for all D500's.




Rodger & Gabby
COS
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ABloch
Posted 2016-05-16 11:11 AM (#511707 - in reply to #511627)
Subject: Re: 1961 Pioneer IBM card



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Posts: 1476
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Location: Pacific Northwest
Hiya Rodger,

The D500 engine for the Pioneer is the 361. Engine and rear end are stamped. 36 HP on the engine and 3.31 on the rear.

I have no doubts that the car is a D500 and properly equipped. The main reasons that I requested the IBM from Chrysler have remained a secret because they did not decode the entire card. For example line 16 "type of sale" and line 27 "styling" were not even addressed in the form above. If you'll notice directly above the HD brakes there are two punches. Coincidentally the D500 option would include the bigger brakes of which my car has. Again, not even addressed in the letter.

So I am writing a letter back to Danielle to see if I can get some more clarification.
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Hyfire
Posted 2016-05-16 7:18 PM (#511760 - in reply to #511707)
Subject: Re: 1961 Pioneer IBM card



100252525
That's the cleanest 1950's MoPar IBM card I've ever seen...
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300XMAN
Posted 2016-05-19 7:43 AM (#511943 - in reply to #511627)
Subject: Re: 1961 Pioneer IBM card


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Posts: 62
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I believe that the paint/styling codes equal 221 or BB1. The 1 would mean monotone paint scheme.
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NicksGarage
Posted 2016-05-19 1:19 PM (#511965 - in reply to #511627)
Subject: Re: 1961 Pioneer IBM card



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Location: Ramona, CA
I just got the one for my 300F and it does show the selling dealer information. Interesting that you have a Dodge Brothers logo in the background, mine was plain. I only got it in an e-mail file. I thought maybe they would have mailed it.

http://forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=60793&post...

Edited by NicksGarage 2016-05-19 1:23 PM
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wizard
Posted 2016-05-19 1:52 PM (#511967 - in reply to #511627)
Subject: Re: 1961 Pioneer IBM card



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Guys, when I ordered my IBM card I had a email conversion with Danielle - she informed me that the information might show which dealer that sold the car, but it might as well not give that information. I was very curious while waiting for my documents, but, in my case it showed the dealer.

Nick, the lower price ($35?) covers only email documents in high resulution Scans (danielle informed me that the scanner they had now was much better than the old one, but sometimes the cards are unsharp and Dirty.
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ABloch
Posted 2016-05-19 6:20 PM (#511980 - in reply to #511627)
Subject: RE: 1961 Pioneer IBM card



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Location: Pacific Northwest
I circled the areas that were not addressed in my document from Chrysler historical. I have since written a letter to Danielle with a similar copy and asked if she could elaborate on the omitted information. If any of you know what these codes are I would appreciate it.

Example. Right above the HD Brakes box you'll see double punches that i think missed the box. I'm thinking that they should be in the box and indicate the HD brakes that are installed on my car. Looks obvious to me but no mention of it from Danielle.



(PioneerIBM2.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments PioneerIBM2.jpg (149KB - 181 downloads)
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Chrycoman
Posted 2016-05-20 4:36 PM (#512040 - in reply to #511627)
Subject: Re: 1961 Pioneer IBM card



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Location: Vancouver, BC

Chrysler Historical Services does not have complete information for all codes for every year. The CHS was initially started up by an employee who wanted to preserve Chrysler Corporation history and thus started collecting what he believed needed to be saved. He was able to collect quite a mass of information, quite a bit of it by preventing stuff being tossed into the garbage bin. To my knowledge there never has been anything formal about departments donating information to CHS.

For the information you are looking for -

163 - Type of Sale - Have not seen this one before, and I suspect is deals with how the car was sold to the dealer, or whether the car was built with no dealer order and thus placed in the Sales Bank

252 - Roof Colour - "2" is punched along with a punch above the lines of numbers. The second punch is similar to a shift key on a keyboard - Shift-2 will give you @. There are 26 letters in the alphabet, but only 10 numbers. Thus the need to use the number punch space for more than one color / letter.

262 - Body Colour - see 252

271 - Styling - "1" is for a monotone paint style - car is all one colour. "2" would be for a two tone - roof one colour and body another

284 - Transmission - Do not have a "284", but have -
281 - 3-speed manual, column shift
282 - Powerflite V8
283 - Torqueflite V8
287 - A904 Torqueflite 6
What transmission appears to be in your car?

379 - Sur-Grip Differential. Listed on your letter from CHS as "Power-Lok"

387 - Mirrors - Although codes 381 to 385 are for mirrors, 387 is Closed Crankcase Ventilation (PCV). Listed on your letter from CHS as "Closed Crankcase"

617 - New Car Service and Sold Car - Codes 611 to 615 are for details on service and order of new car, but 617 is for Permanent Antifreeze.

Chrysler was noted for putting codes for single items not related to anything else in an area assigned to some specific items. Such as PCV installation, single code 387, mixed in with the codes for various optional mirrors.

Hope this helps.
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ABloch
Posted 2016-05-20 6:41 PM (#512051 - in reply to #511627)
Subject: Re: 1961 Pioneer IBM card



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Location: Pacific Northwest
Thanks for you help Bill. I was hoping you would get around to chiming in on this.

163- This is one of the codes I'd really like to figure out. The car has an SO number of 1125 and as you can see above a delivery date of 6/13. Was there a strike in late '60 early '61 that held up the line? Did the car sit around in the sales bank before getting sent out to the dealer? It's an oddly optioned car so I was trying to figure out if it was ordered this way by someone or spit out of the plant like this? I suspect that the factory made it. Performance packaged car at a cheaper price. Not unlike the bare bones base models that would sit on the showroom floor with low window stickers to entice people. Then the salesmen would up-sell the customers into power options and what not.

284- The car is equipped with the three speed, column shift. If that should be 281 any idea why it's marked 284? Could it be a L.A. plant thing or was there more than one three speed transmission available?

387- L.A. production car so the closed crankcase makes sense. Danielle couldn't tell me were region 16 was nor which dealer was 92800 so that remains a mystery. The car originally had no mirror on the drivers side but the previous owner added it. I'm glad that he installed it in the correct position both on the fender and the knob on the dash. I kind like looking out at the fin every now and then.

I suppose the letter that I will get back from Danielle will be pretty short. Based on what you have told me here.

Thanks Bill!

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Chrycoman
Posted 2016-05-21 1:28 AM (#512062 - in reply to #511627)
Subject: Re: 1961 Pioneer IBM card



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Location: Vancouver, BC

Chrysler had no major labour interruptions during 1960 or 1961, although both model year and calendar year production for 1961 was down due to a recession that year. Given the time span between the scheduled build date and the shipping date I suspect the car spent some time in the Sales Bank.

There is a good possibility the car was originally scheduled to be built for a customer, but the customer cancelled their order (affects of the recession?) and the dealer cancelled the car. The factory may have kept the car in the order pipeline and changed the Type of Sale and related items. The dealer number of 92800 could be for a Sales Bank in California, same as with Region 16 - a factory region code. The factory had to keep track of what happened to the car when it left the assembly line.

Code 281 is for the basic 3 speed manual, but there could be other manual transmissions available. The list I have has been built up over the years as I determined what options were available and the codes assigned to those options. In 1962 sales code 344 was for a heavy-duty 3 speed manual column shift for V8 engines. Good possibility that 284 is for the same heavy-duty 3 speed manual column shift for V8 engines in 1961, especially given the engine that was ordered for the car. In 1962 they also had code 346, a floor mounted 3 speed T-85 manual.

Outside mirrors were optional prior to 1965 so it was not uncommon to have a car with not external mirrors. Glad the previous owner did a great job installing one, doing it like the factory would have done it.

Keep us posted on the letter to Danielle.

Thanks
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hemidenis
Posted 2016-05-21 9:35 PM (#512106 - in reply to #511627)
Subject: Re: 1961 Pioneer IBM card



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Guys, I can't see the details on the card, are the real ones mailed bigger? Would be nice to have mine as an export car will be interesting to know details of the dealer...
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