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d500neil

Posted 2015-07-18 8:48 PM (#484789)
Subject: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000

Location: bishop, ca

Here, for your consideration, is my car's "spare" water pump,
which has been living the good life, in Horrie's trunk, for MANY years.

His existing water pump, just today (at the end of a 100 mile road trip) began
leaking (pouring-out) big-time-enuf....

Got him home, and to a gas station, before noticing the active leakage, and with no over-heating
occurring.

Question: do water pumps dry out, internally, when dry-stored, for many years????

His impeller turns somewhat stiffly, but smoothly, and with NO lost-motion to its operation.

Germans, and maybe the Swiss, too) would describe the impeller's current turning/rotating effort-needed as being Gutenteit.

So, is Horrie's spare water pump in good operating condition (with its stiffly-but-smoothly
turning impeller), or should/could the impeller-system be overhauled or somehow lubricated
before being installed on H.'s engine????

Gaskets are cheap-enough, and my spare one is SLIGHTLY warped, and has one mounting hole in it,
that has a slight crack.

So, I suppose that gasket, after all 'these' years, is righteously history....

Edited by d500neil 2015-07-18 8:59 PM

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ttotired

Posted 2015-07-18 9:37 PM (#484791 - in reply to #484789)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Expert 5K+

Posts: 8443
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Location: Perth Australia

50/50 Neil

All rubber deteriorates over time and its the seal that would be the problem

The seal lip can sometimes glue itself to the shaft without use as well and the first turn will tear the lip off

Only way to tell is to give it a go, but they arnt worth much either, could be a case of "if in doubt, throw it out"

LD3 Greg

Posted 2015-07-18 11:42 PM (#484798 - in reply to #484791)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Expert

Posts: 1906
1000

Location: Ontario, Canada

Firstly, I would scrap any casting that was cracked!!

Secondly, I would be much more concerned that the fan hub was pressed onto the pump shaft to the correct distance.

As I look at your pic, it appears to me that there is "more than normal" shaft extending outward from the fan hub.

Hey, pics and real life are different. Just check it out. You don't want to tear off a fan belt!!

Greg

d500neil

Posted 2015-07-19 3:34 AM (#484806 - in reply to #484798)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000

Location: bishop, ca

AFAIK, this is a NOS piece (check out its mounting-hole status).

Any factory mechanical item might be built defectively.

What makes y'all think that this guy is "defective"?

Because it's "old", and has had a long shelf life?

I'm not "in doubt" about this pump's being NOS; just wondering if there is any way to confirm (or bench-test) its long-term
'usability' condition, prior to installing it.

And: if it does have deteriorated internals, wouldn't that condition immediately present itself, by leaking
(immediately, or not)?

Are NOS water pumps supposed to have Gutenteit internals (seals and bearings), or should they have (relatively-)
silky-smoothly spinning internals?

Thanks, Greg, et al...the fan hub's shaft's length/alignment will be checked out, too, upon reassembly.

Edited by d500neil 2015-07-19 3:36 AM

BigBlockMopar

Posted 2015-07-19 6:20 AM (#484811 - in reply to #484789)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Expert

Posts: 3575
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Location: Netherlands

Because of the now 50+ year old rubber seal internally, the NOS pump might fail sooner than an actual new part made in recent years.
I would just install it and have your original pump rebuild in the time being.

1960fury

Posted 2015-07-19 8:54 AM (#484817 - in reply to #484811)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Expert 5K+

Posts: 7400
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Location: northern germany

i do not know if they go bad just by sitting but i have GREAT respect for 50s mopar parts and the materials they used.

when i bought my plymouth, over 27 years ago, i replaced its oe (i guess) water pump with an aluminum one from MP just to be sure, although the oe one was working perfectly (stupid I know). the MP unit lasted a long time but when it started leaking about 5 years ago i put the OE pump back in (stored used for about 20 years) until know the oe pump works perfectly, with no noises or leaks.

i forgot to mention that when the mp unit failed at first i bought another new aluminum pump (made in japan) that lasted 6 months! so right now i drive with a 56 year old water pump.

wizard

Posted 2015-07-19 9:04 AM (#484818 - in reply to #484789)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

Posts: 13049
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island

Neil, most probably someone has renovated the water pump, way back in time. The housing is cracked and warped because someone did not respect that it's only allowed to support the shaft end when pressing together the parts. If one should support the housing, normally the housing will crack and/or warp.

58coupe

Posted 2015-07-19 9:28 AM (#484820 - in reply to #484789)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Expert

Posts: 1740
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Location: Alaska

If you have ever rebuilt, taken apart a waterpump, you will find a seal that is made from a very hard material (I believe carbon) that is spring loaded to rub against a smooth surface. This is the water seal. This should not deteriorate by just sitting but that crack may leak. I believe it is normal for a new, unused pump to turn a little stiff, all you can do is give it a try.

1960fury

Posted 2015-07-19 9:31 AM (#484821 - in reply to #484818)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Expert 5K+

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Location: northern germany

crack, i always hear crack. i do not think neil or anyone would use a cracked wp. its only the GASKET that has a crack, according to the op.

and btw, wth is a "Gutenteit" ?

other topic, i personally would never run a cast iron impeller. removing rotating mass from my car is my "hobbyhorse"

years ago i changed to underdrive/lightweight crank, waterpump, ps and alternator pulleys with titanium/aluminum bolts/nuts removing 1.5+ pounds (!) rotating mass from the engine and the result surprised even me. the idle went up from 500rpm so high i didn't want to engage the drive gear.
if the mass reduction is noticeable at idle speed you can guess what it does at acceleration/higher engine speeds.

and btw the smaller lightweight crank pulley that turns the water pump and alternator (that has an underdrive pulley too) slower, had absolutely no negative effects on cooling or charging.

Edited by 1960fury 2015-07-19 9:57 AM

d500neil

Posted 2015-07-19 4:07 PM (#484864 - in reply to #484789)
Subject: RE: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca

Here's some more pics of this pump.

How are you guys able to determine that the pump's case is cracked and warped?

The crack, as seen in Pic 5225 appears to be superficial and the mounting-bolt holes
look like they've never been torqued-on.

If that superficial crack bothers 'us', I could 'float' (-fill) the crack with some PTFE Thread Sealant.

But, nobody, to date (?) has said anything about being able to "bench test" the operational
capability of a water pump (like: checking for excessive play in its impeller (none, on mine), or that
the impeller might be too tight/stiff (that's the "Gutenteit" syndrome, Sid!)...or that the impeller
might be too 'loose' in its rotation (not, on mine!)

So, I'll probably float the crack with some PTFE, and install the pump with a new gasket....and see what happens
(answer: probably NOTHING...bad or obvious, but for how long???)

But, what about PRE-lubricating the thing, as some have advised doing????

How is THAT done?

Edited by d500neil 2015-07-19 4:37 PM

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1960fury

Posted 2015-07-19 6:15 PM (#484878 - in reply to #484864)
Subject: RE: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

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Location: northern germany

d500neil - 2015-07-19 4:07 PM

the impeller might be too tight/stiff (that's the "Gutenteit" syndrome, Sid!)...

interesting, but there is no such word in german

zrxkawboy

Posted 2015-07-19 6:39 PM (#484882 - in reply to #484878)
Subject: RE: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

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1960fury - 2015-07-19 5:15 PM

d500neil - 2015-07-19 4:07 PM

the impeller might be too tight/stiff (that's the "Gutenteit" syndrome, Sid!)...

interesting, but there is no such word in german :)

Just a fun play on words. (good 'n tight)

1960fury

Posted 2015-07-19 6:45 PM (#484883 - in reply to #484882)
Subject: RE: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Expert 5K+

Posts: 7400
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Location: northern germany

zrxkawboy - 2015-07-19 6:39 PM

1960fury - 2015-07-19 5:15 PM

d500neil - 2015-07-19 4:07 PM

the impeller might be too tight/stiff (that's the "Gutenteit" syndrome, Sid!)...

interesting, but there is no such word in german :)

Just a fun play on words. (good 'n tight)

aaah stupid me

wizard

Posted 2015-07-20 1:42 AM (#484909 - in reply to #484821)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island

1960fury - 2015-07-19 3:31 PM

crack, i always hear crack. i do not think neil or anyone would use a cracked wp. its only the GASKET that has a crack, according to the op.

I understood that it was the pump body that was cracked and warped, but Sid corrected me Neil..........

finsruskw

Posted 2015-07-20 1:02 PM (#484928 - in reply to #484909)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Expert

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Location: Eastern Iowa

Geeesh....
Another urban legend shot from the saddle...

Here all these years I thought it was the German word for virgin!!

Edited by finsruskw 2015-07-20 1:04 PM

wizard

Posted 2015-07-20 1:35 PM (#484930 - in reply to #484789)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

Posts: 13049
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island

Well, it could be used for sure, translated it would be like "nice and tight"

1960fury

Posted 2015-07-20 1:54 PM (#484933 - in reply to #484928)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

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Location: northern germany

finsruskw - 2015-07-20 1:02 PM

Geeesh....
Another urban legend shot from the saddle...

Here all these years I thought it was the German word for virgin!!

just like the word, they do not exist either

d500neil

Posted 2015-07-20 2:33 PM (#484938 - in reply to #484933)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000

Location: bishop, ca

Well, my water pump's rotation is Gutenteit, and, that pump has never been installed, AFAIK, so it can be considered
as being virginal, right?

Pump's scheduled to be replaced this THUR...3 days from now.

Edited by d500neil 2015-07-20 2:34 PM

wizard

Posted 2015-07-20 4:08 PM (#484960 - in reply to #484789)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

Posts: 13049
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island

something pumped cannot be considered a virgin Neil

Polybun

Posted 2015-07-20 10:57 PM (#484996 - in reply to #484789)
Subject: RE: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Temporarily suspended to cool off

Posts: 316
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probably quicker than they do if they are installed in some cases. They have rubber seals, they have bushings. Seals can dry out, bushings can become pitted, and once that's done, it's gonna leak. Now in the car, if good coolant or pump lube is run, it'll be bathed in corrosion inhibitors and oils that keep seals happy.

d500neil

Posted 2015-07-27 7:32 PM (#485321 - in reply to #484789)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000

Location: bishop, ca

Well, end of story: replacement water pump is installed...and the existing-original/FAILED water pump has been sent out,
to Quality Engineered Components, of Bend, OR, for an overhaul. and retention, where it will reside in the trunk as being one of the (potentially-) "immediately necessary" spare parts.

Edited by d500neil 2015-07-27 7:38 PM

1960fury

Posted 2015-07-27 7:57 PM (#485324 - in reply to #485321)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Expert 5K+

Posts: 7400
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Location: northern germany

if it was the really the original 58 year old pump, "failed" is an unfair word

i would call it a very successful nice little water pump

Edited by 1960fury 2015-07-27 7:58 PM

d500neil

Posted 2015-07-28 2:41 AM (#485382 - in reply to #485324)
Subject: Re: WATER PUMPS...do they go bad, just by "sitting"???

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000

Location: bishop, ca

I never asked it, about its age, before putting it to WORK.

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