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57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!
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Andy1974
Posted 2015-06-22 3:50 PM (#482388)
Subject: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!



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This thread gives instructions for making a scratch build headliner, based on the original 57/58 3 –sectioned cardboard one.

As mentioned, my friend Michael just finished his 58 Plymouth restoration and also made a perfect new headliner. It is a bit tricky but it works. Look at the pictures below, the result speaks for itself.

Part 1: General description about how it works and what material is needed.

For the final assembly and final adjustment work, the car itself is needed. There´s no way for replacement parts "ready to go" without the car. The side panels are bended in 2 directions. The rounded shape cannot be measured exactly in advance without a mold.

What you will need:

  • PVC hard foam board for the side sections, 2 x 160cm x 60cm (63“ x 24“), thickness 3mm (0.12“). Only 2 if you are skillful, more for „trial and error“
    Vendor example: http://www.interstateplastics.com -> PVC expanded sheet - white
  • Fiberboard for the middle section, 1 x 1565mm x 585mm, (61.61“ x 2303“), thickness 3mm (0.12“). One side coated is best. Like the ones you can get for cabinet rear walls.
  • White vinyl, dotted, from SMS or another dealer. SMS “1956 Buick dot” matches the grid perfect! Dotted not perforated avoids problems with glue coming through the holes. Alternatively you can try to find perforated cardboard. We did not find it. I think that originally the holes had a venting function to dry the old “sheep-like” insulation material. Replacing it with modern stuff, a venting function is not needed any more. See insulation material below. Buy some more if you would like to cover the old sunvisors!
  • carpenter with a milling machine (or do it yourself somehow)
  • upholsterer with vinyl glue (or do it yourself)
  • Heat gun
  • Solvent-free white paint and clear coat spray ( 2 layers). I would recommend mat clear coat, not glossy. Try out on a piece of board what´s best.

Part 2: Preparation, according to need:

  • Remove all garnish inside moldings. You may have problems removing the long bows above the windows as the screws are hidden under the roof rail weatherstrip. I managed to get them out, but did not reinstall every single screw. In doubt, the weatherstrip has to be removed.
  • Remove the plastic retainer strips. Be very very careful if you want to reuse them! They may be very brittle due to age. Even if you get them out without breaking them: They may break if you try to push them on again after all. We come to replicas for that later.
  • Remove all 3 panels. Save the small clamps which hold the side panels up on both sides, above the windows.
  • Remove the “old dead sheep” insulation. Remove all loose material, also rust, from the metal.
  • Put Rust prevention paint on the roof sheet. You will have problems to get behind the frame inforcements .
  • New 3 layer insulation: Ant-echo, condensation barrier and soundproofing: That´s what I used.

 Part 3: Making a template of the side panels

  • Below you can see an image of the AutoCAD drawing of the side section. What you need to do if you would like to use it:
  • Write me a PM with your eMail address, so I can send you the PDF document
  • The drawing is to scale. You have to find someone who has a big CAD plotter. Maybe some copyshops have those printers or someone else you know.
  • The person who plots it out has to adjust the printer settings to "custom setting", sizing 1700mm x 600mm (67" x 24")
  • After printing, check if the "100mm" on the bottom of the page is really 100mm (3.94")
  • You can now cut it out and use it as a template for your new boards

Part 4: Making and installing the new headliner

  • Cut the fiberboard for the middle section to 1565mm x 585mm, (61.61“ x 2303“) Mount it in the car between the metal retaining strips. You may have to tie it up somehow. Otherwise it could fall down because just the clamping between the metal strips is unsufficient.
  • Cut the foam boards with a carpet knife or scissors to the aproximate size. If you don´t have the old cardboards, my measured sketch will help. Be genorous with the size, you can cut away more material later! Try to fit it in the car.
  • Cut the grooves 1mm (0.04“) deep in the foam boards with a wood jointer. In case of doubt, ask a carpenter to do that job. Carefully break the edges with a spar and abrasive paper until they are slightly round.
  • Fit the foam boards from the outside to the inside, towards the metal strips. While doing that, use the heat gun for all the bended areas to carefully form it in shape. Maybe you have to cut away something again. Do it along the strips to make it fit. Work in small steps, this is an itarative process!
  • Mount all the chrome strips and the plastic retainer strips (if you have them) provisionally to check if all the edges of the boards are covered.
  • Drill the holes for the sunvisors. Check and cut the recess for the dome light.
  • Remove all parts and fit them in again to check if everything is fine.
  • Cover the middle section with the vinyl. In case of doubt, ask an upholsterer to do that job. Important: Thickness including the vinyl cover should not exceed 0.16”. Let the carpenter mill 0.04” away this way. 

  • Paint the side sections white.
  • Do the final mounting. Middle panel, side panels, plastic retainer strips.
  • If you are satisfied with the result, drink a beer or more and listen to the song from Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mich and Tich: Bend it! All in all, this is not the Legend of Xanadu! Be proud!

Some notes about costs:

  • Foam boards: $75
  • Fiberboard: $35
  • Vinyl: $310
  • Painting: $60
  • Beer: $20
  • Sum: $500

Now here are some photos of Michael´s car:

…and mine:

 

Dotted vinyl:

Part 5: Plastic retainer strips

There are 5 alternatives:

  • Reuse your old ones, if you have and they do not break.
  • Find used old ones in good condition. Good luck!
  • Order them from MM, $300 pair + shipping on eBay at present
  • Get them from me. Come to that later…
  • Find another way replicating them.

I´ve made a CAD drawing of the profile and asked about 20 companies making plastics. They all told me that the setup costs to make an (extruder) tool are disproportionate to the amount of required profiles. Although the final product is nothing more than a plastic profile.

In my car were original Fury strips. These are plastic transparent profiles with silver/gold paint from the underside. Except one break point at the end of one strip, they are in good condition. I used them to make the CAD drawing. Also I think they could be reused I did not reinstall them. I used my repros, which have a chrome finish. I would give the originals away if someone wants them. Because of the length, oversea-shipping costs would be high!

Finally I found a way to work with a company together. They made some strips for me. Although they also have setup costs which push the price high, no chance for a cheap way.
Material is grey PVC, very durable but still pliable. Transparent plastic like the original is impossible. So for the final finish, they have to be painted or foiled. A perfect finish would be the “coverchrome” method, which is a perfect chrome paint. I successfully tested it on the fiberglass oval air cleaners, bezels and grille. But my guy doing it had no time. So I used chrome car foil, also coming out nicely.

 Photos of testing and comparing old/new retainer strips. Please note that the “prototype” was in lack of 2 additional groves (like the old one has). But the PVC material is too stiff. It cannot be pushed on the steel bow. I added the grooves later and it worked perfect after that. No problem installing them. They clip on the steel bow smoothly and hold.

Some notes about price:

I have some plastic strips left and I would sell them. They are bare, without any coating.

Price: $85 piece / $170 pair
Shipping: $50 approximately, depends on where you´re living.

For those who come to Carlisle in July: I would take them there and give them to you. Shipping costs would be zero. As a result of being flexible, I could bend them oval and put them in my suitcase. But please: Serious interest! I don´t carry the strips around just for fun, swinging them like a lash! May be funny, but not what I like to do at Carlisle!

Last but not least

I´m working on the retainer strip end caps. They will also be plastic repros.

In addition, I´ll also make the small Forwardlook emblem again, which comes on the rear shelf cover between the seats – only Fury models. Some might remember me making them in steel last year. I will not make them again in steel. I thought they were perfect bhere was criticism that they are not worth $55.

 

Good luck and be patient!  

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mikes2nd
Posted 2015-06-22 11:02 PM (#482435 - in reply to #482388)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!


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how do you use a jointer and get all those lines so straight on the pvc vinyl?

interesting so you used this.

https://www.interstateplastics.com/Pvc-Expanded-White-Sheet-PVCWX.ph...
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d500neil
Posted 2015-06-23 2:16 AM (#482447 - in reply to #482435)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Location: bishop, ca
Andy, your work looks and reads like a name-your-price operation!

Thankfully, my 57 Dodge's headliner is fine, but, I'd be willing to pay way-more than $1.5K for a headliner that you could
make for me, if the results are as good as shown, above!!




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1960fury
Posted 2015-06-23 9:05 AM (#482470 - in reply to #482447)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!



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threads like that make this forum so great! THANKS andy!

Edited by 1960fury 2015-06-23 9:06 AM
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Andy1974
Posted 2015-06-24 4:25 PM (#482653 - in reply to #482435)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!



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mikes2nd - 2015-06-23 5:02 AM

how do you use a jointer and get all those lines so straight on the pvc vinyl?


A carpenter or joiner has such machines, no problem.
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Andy1974
Posted 2015-06-24 4:28 PM (#482654 - in reply to #482447)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!



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d500neil - 2015-06-23 8:16 AM

Andy, your work looks and reads like a name-your-price operation!

Thankfully, my 57 Dodge's headliner is fine, but, I'd be willing to pay way-more than $1.5K for a headliner that you could
make for me, if the results are as good as shown, above!!



No problem, Neil. Send me your car and we´ll make it. But there is chance that I´ll keep your car because I like it!
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60 dart
Posted 2015-06-24 5:16 PM (#482666 - in reply to #482388)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!



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not many people know what a joiner is --------------------------------------------------later
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Andy1974
Posted 2015-06-25 3:34 AM (#482718 - in reply to #482388)
Subject: RE: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!



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Sorry, I´m German. Google translator says: "Schreiner" = "Carpenter" or "Joiner":
Joiner:
"A person who constructs the wooden components of a building, such as stairs, doors, and door and window frames."
„Suppose I go to a joiner and ask him to make me a table, and the joiner delivers me a wooden board.“
Carpenter:
"A person who makes and repairs wooden objects and structures."
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60 dart
Posted 2015-06-25 4:19 AM (#482720 - in reply to #482388)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!



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i'm a retired and still a member of the "United Brotherhood Of Carpenters And Joiners Of America" , 38 yrs. -------------------------------------------later
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d500neil
Posted 2015-06-25 5:06 PM (#482766 - in reply to #482720)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Andy, FORTUNATELY, my 57 Dodge 2-dr HT has a perfect condition headliner, and sunvisors.

MANY people are not as fortunate as I happen to be (at least, regarding the headliner situation; inside-joke...)

For the 57-58 (AND 59's????) Dodge hardtop models, there are a LOT of cars that need these headliners!

The Dodges called their headliner 'painting' pattern the :"Endless Loop", which was gold stain/paint, against the off-white
background of the headliner-material.

If you can 'tampo' paint, or reproduce, that pattern, on your perforated hardboard roof/ceiling material, you would
be the ONLY facility creating those panels, and I can envision someone paying a lot of money to restore their
hardtop car, using your 'ceiling/roof' materials.

Each car division had a slightly different 'pattern' to its headliner-paint, but, all that 'you' would have to do is set up
a computerized program to follow the route of the "Endless Loops", across the headliners, for reproduction purposes.



Edited by d500neil 2015-06-25 5:11 PM
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Hart_Rod
Posted 2017-03-28 11:06 AM (#536809 - in reply to #482388)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!


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I know this is an old thread, but I'm trying to locate some headliner bows. Do you still make these? Thanks - Rob
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Andy1974
Posted 2017-03-28 12:19 PM (#536816 - in reply to #482388)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!



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What do you mean by "bows"? The steel bows where the plastic strips are attached to or the plastic strips? I can´t make the steel bows. I can make the plastic strips, that´s right.
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Hart_Rod
Posted 2017-03-29 7:34 AM (#536857 - in reply to #536816)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!


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Andy1974 - 2017-03-28 12:19 PM

What do you mean by "bows"? The steel bows where the plastic strips are attached to or the plastic strips? I can´t make the steel bows. I can make the plastic strips, that´s right.


My apologies. I was referring to the plastic strips. Can you make them in specified lengths?
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Andy1974
Posted 2017-03-29 10:59 AM (#536949 - in reply to #482388)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!



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No sorry, I can´t. They are all 63"
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Hart_Rod
Posted 2017-03-29 12:00 PM (#536956 - in reply to #536949)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!


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Andy1974 - 2017-03-29 10:59 AM

No sorry, I can´t. They are all 63"


That length is good. I actually need them shorter. Apparently GM used the same type of headliner bows on their 67-72 suburbans. Do you have the dimensions of the plastic molding and of the groove that you cut in the trim? Thanks,

Rob
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1959 plymouth
Posted 2022-03-04 9:05 AM (#619975 - in reply to #482388)
Subject: RE: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!


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Hi Guys,
i`m searching for the two Plastic Headliner Stripes and Endcaps for my 1959 Plymouth 2 Door Hardtop.
Please let me know where i can get them.
Thanks.
Andy
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mikes2nd
Posted 2022-03-04 9:50 AM (#619977 - in reply to #482388)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!


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they dont make them... the original poster was printing them.

There are alternatives though.

I think you could find molding trim and adapt it fairly easy.

https://www.amazon.com/Cowles-Protekto-Trim-37-630-Molding/dp/B00JJL...

Look for half round trim (there are MANY profiles) when you find a big trim molding place. You could hot knife cut out the profile, and sand and paint if you don't like the chrome.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2022-03-04 10:01 AM (#619978 - in reply to #482388)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!


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these guys might have some

https://www.dawn-ent.com/Exterior-Accessories/Extruded-Moldings-Trim

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mikes2nd
Posted 2022-03-04 10:08 AM (#619980 - in reply to #482388)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!


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the trim is 3/4 inch but this would be a good candidate to hot knife

https://www.dawn-ent.com/LS1701402-S-Buick-LeSabre-Factory-Match-Mol...

here is another option but smaller
https://www.dawn-ent.com/Exterior-Accessories/Extruded-Moldings-Trim...

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mikes2nd
Posted 2022-03-04 10:09 AM (#619981 - in reply to #482388)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!


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Here is a 3/4 trim

https://www.amazon.com/WHITE-Marine-Camper-Molding-Flexible/dp/B073F...

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mikes2nd
Posted 2022-03-04 10:10 AM (#619982 - in reply to #482388)
Subject: Re: 57/58 Plymouth cardboard headliner - do it yourself!


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that looks promising and pliable




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