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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | whats a good sure grip oil and additive ---------------------------------------------later |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | Royal Purple's gear lube does not require an extra additive. Its properties, as stated on the bottles, include function in any limited slip diff. application. Yes, RP costs more than other greases BUT you don't have to buy additives to add to it. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1102
Location: Hayward, Calif | I generally get the 80 - 90 gear oil marked for sure grip or limited slip diff on the side of the bottle. I haven't added anything to it. I think it was Valvolene.
Edited by 59 in Calif 2015-06-19 7:44 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5139
Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | Mopar dealers sell an additive to regular 80-90 wt. gear oil. That is what they recommend for sure-grip--not expensive...........................MO |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | thanks guys , i'll most likely use 80-90 with mopar add in like i've been doin -----------------------------------later |
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Temporarily suspended to cool off
Posts: 316
| This is going to get a lot of groans, but that lucas oil stabalizer stuff is just the trick! If you call lucas oil and ask them about it, they will even recomend it. It's pretty much the exact same chemistry as chryslers hypoid additive that they used! Thus the reason when you add it sticks to gears like stink on.... well you fill it in. It should also be said, that, atleast acourding to the bottle, Lucas 80w/90 gear oil is ok to use in limited slip differentials without any additive.
It's your clutch packs but, I've seen both of these sollutions work just fine. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i kinda look at it this way , its an old used unit from bertha with @ 35k on it with factory installed clutches . i would have imagined that the oem oil was probably never changed , til me . so for me to go
with the chrysler additive with straight 80-90 similar to the oem used might be a little easier on the unit ,,,,,,,,,,,, or it may not but i'm betting on the oem way---------------------------------------later |
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| Well here is the thing. The additive doesn't really help them live longer, just makes them make less noise. It's a clutch pack, so the less the clutches slip, the longer they last. It's just that, if you want a limited slim diff to work without popping and jerking around you need a friction modifier in the oil. To put your brain on it another way, consider this. One way to make an automatic trans live longer is to make it shift harder and faster so that there is less slipping of the clutch packs. So you grab the accumulator spring and throw that thing into low earth orbit (or in front of your neibors mower.) Now the 1-2 shift pack will live a much longer life, although now the u-joints and diff take a bit of a beating.
I haven't researched oil for limited slip diffs much, but I have put a lot of effort in finding the right oil for drag racing a yamaha virago. Now the gearbox and engine are all one part on that bike and the clutch is a wet clutch that's cooled by the engine oil. This makes finding the right oil tricky because the things that make oil real real good for bearings makes clutches slip and go nuclear. A limited slip diff has the same problem.
The lucas oil stabalizer stuff is just simply some friction modifiers. I would think a mix of somewhere around 10% of that stuff would work out pretty well, and that stuff makes the gears happier. It's win win. |
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Expert
Posts: 3774
Location: NorCal | Polybun - 2015-06-29 5:27 PM
So you grab the accumulator spring and throw that thing into low earth orbit (or in front of your neibors mower.) Now the 1-2 shift pack will live a much longer life, although now the u-joints and diff take a bit of a beating.
Oh, gawd not that again. Oldest myth in the Mopar world. |
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| 57chizler - 2015-06-30 10:18 AM
Polybun - 2015-06-29 5:27 PM
So you grab the accumulator spring and throw that thing into low earth orbit (or in front of your neibors mower.) Now the 1-2 shift pack will live a much longer life, although now the u-joints and diff take a bit of a beating.
Oh, gawd not that again. Oldest myth in the Mopar world.
bulls**t. In fact on some cars, the factory even left it out to firm up the 1-2 shift. Notably my Phoenix and that's clearly pointed out in the service manual. Mopar Action magazine have also repeatedly promoted this modification. I'll take Richard Ehrenbergs tech advice over anything. It's no myth, you just don't know what the hell you're talking about. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13045
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | I've been around long enough to learn that as soon someone claims that "this" was never an oem item, ma MoPar proves them wrong.
It would be very interesting if you could scan the service manual page that point this out and perhaps something from the MoPar Action Magazine
Thanks in advance
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Expert
Posts: 3774
Location: NorCal | Polybun - 2015-07-01 5:59 AM
57chizler - 2015-06-30 10:18 AM
Polybun - 2015-06-29 5:27 PM
So you grab the accumulator spring and throw that thing into low earth orbit (or in front of your neibors mower.) Now the 1-2 shift pack will live a much longer life, although now the u-joints and diff take a bit of a beating.
Oh, gawd not that again. Oldest myth in the Mopar world.
bulls**t. In fact on some cars, the factory even left it out to firm up the 1-2 shift. Notably my Phoenix and that's clearly pointed out in the service manual. Mopar Action magazine have also repeatedly promoted this modification. I'll take Richard Ehrenbergs tech advice over anything. It's no myth, you just don't know what the hell you're talking about.
E-booger has been proven wrong numerous times and the accumulator spring myth can be easily disproven too.
If you can read a road map and find your way from North Philly to South Philly you can interpret the action of the various components shown in the FSM fluid flow diagrams. Viewing these diagrams, you'll notice that the only time the accumulator piston moves toward the spring is when the trans is initially placed in Drive or 1. During the 1-2 upshift the piston moves away from the spring. So, how does the spring cushion the shift when the piston is clearly moving away from it? It doesn't; the sole purpose of the accumulator spring is to cushion the initial application of the forward clutch, it plays no part in any upshift
The spring myth probably arose from the known fact that the accumulator cushions the 1-2 upshift. Knowing this fact and observing the presence of a spring easily leads to the assumption that the spring is the cushioning agent when, in reality, the 1-2 upshift cushioning is a strictly hydraulic function (similar to a suspension hydraulic shock absorber).
Those who claim they can "feel" the upshift difference after spring removal are either experiencing the placebo affect or did other mods in addition to the spring removal.
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7393
Location: northern germany | i do not know who is right or wrong. all i know is i switched from a heavy (imperial) spring to a light spring (golden commando 383) and it didn't make the shifts any firmer. question remains why did ma mopar put lighter springs in the performance cars? |
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Posts: 316
| I'll see what I can do about that, I don't have a working scanner at the moment. The same information can also be found in the 1960 National Service Data books and the 1960 motors manual.
Edited by Polybun 2015-07-02 10:32 AM
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Expert
Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | They may have put in lighter springs because of other changes elsewhere. The accumulator will soften the pressure spike but there are orifices that control the flow of the oil and other control valves that set the actual pressure maintained in the clutch pack. So when all those things, plus governor pressure and throttle valve pressure) are combined it may be that the firmer shifts were due to higher pressures, higher flow which counter-intuitively required required more accumulator "action" which was obtained with a lighter spring. In my 76 Blazer you could "firm it up" by simply taking a check ball out and drilling one of the small orifices in the separation plate in the valve body a little larger. |
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Expert
Posts: 3774
Location: NorCal | 1960fury - 2015-07-01 10:37 AM
question remains why did ma mopar put lighter springs in the performance cars?
I've often wondered that myself. In later years they did omit the spring in some models and in others they used a spring that is so weak even my arthritic fingers can compress one to full coil bind. The spring on the right below is common in the later low-performance smog years....more of a spacer than a spring.
 (Accumsprings.jpg)
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 Accumsprings.jpg (70KB - 165 downloads)
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Temporarily suspended to cool off
Posts: 316
| 57chizler - 2015-07-02 10:42 AM
1960fury - 2015-07-01 10:37 AM
question remains why did ma mopar put lighter springs in the performance cars?
I've often wondered that myself. In later years they did omit the spring in some models and in others they used a spring that is so weak even my arthritic fingers can compress one to full coil bind. The spring on the right below is common in the later low-performance smog years....more of a spacer than a spring.
It wasn't just later years. The service manual for the 1960 phoenix is pretty clear that the 318 4bbl car didn't have one at all. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1117
Location: STL, MO | Sometimes this site will have a thread that makes me laugh out loud, Thanks Chuck!!! |
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Temporarily suspended to cool off
Posts: 316
| http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/gear-lube/slip-lock-gear-oil-...
Been looking into amsoil products, noticed that they make this. I've never used it though. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5139
Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | Polybun - 2015-06-29 7:27 PM
Well here is the thing. The additive doesn't really help them live longer, just makes them make less noise. It's a clutch pack, so the less the clutches slip, the longer they last. It's just that, if you want a limited slim diff to work without popping and jerking around you need a friction modifier in the oil. To put your brain on it another way, consider this. One way to make an automatic trans live longer is to make it shift harder and faster so that there is less slipping of the clutch packs. So you grab the accumulator spring and throw that thing into low earth orbit (or in front of your neibors mower.) Now the 1-2 shift pack will live a much longer life, although now the u-joints and diff take a bit of a beating.
I haven't researched oil for limited slip diffs much, but I have put a lot of effort in finding the right oil for drag racing a yamaha virago. Now the gearbox and engine are all one part on that bike and the clutch is a wet clutch that's cooled by the engine oil. This makes finding the right oil tricky because the things that make oil real real good for bearings makes clutches slip and go nuclear. A limited slip diff has the same problem.
The lucas oil stabalizer stuff is just simply some friction modifiers. I would think a mix of somewhere around 10% of that stuff would work out pretty well, and that stuff makes the gears happier. It's win win. I dis- agree the friction modifier is to allow the clutch pac to slip when going around a corner AND TO MAKE THE CLUTCHES LAST LONGER.
All these "gotta have" products are advertised to make you believe they are better. And get you to give them your money. A good example is oil. IE: using racing oil in a street driven car. Now we see who believes all the hype........................MO |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | Handygun - 2015-07-05 7:25 PM
Sometimes this site will have a thread that makes me laugh out loud, Thanks Chuck!!!
hey , don't thank me . one clown does not a circus make ! |
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Veteran
Posts: 272
Location: Missouri | I bought a shift kit straight from Direct Connection (now Mopar Performance), that had an aluminum tube for the accumulator piston. The instructions said to remove the spring, and place the tube in the piston then put it in the bore. This blocks the piston in the downward position, and with the other kit parts was designed to firm the shifts considerably; I'm not sure but I think the line pressure was increased as well by adjusting a screw on the valve body, using a paper gauge that was included. |
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Expert
Posts: 3774
Location: NorCal |
Another Mopar inconsistency; in the early 727 race tech tips, they warned against blocking the accumulator because it could lead to front planet carrier spline failures (and it sure does) but years later MP offers a junk shift kit with a blocker for the accumulator. |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | When did the title of this thread change from differentials to HD automaticd transmissions? Just askin'.
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sure grip
