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Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?
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jaded13640
Posted 2015-05-20 12:04 AM (#478876)
Subject: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?


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I see a kit on Moparmall that has the joint and the ball and trunion. My ball and trunion is fine. I just need the rear U-joint.

But none of the parts stores have a listing earlier than 58.

Can anyone look up the series of U-joint for the Surburban with the 325 poly v-8?

Thanks,

Wayne
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-12 7:04 PM (#570022 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: RE: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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jaded13640 - 2015-05-20 12:04 AM
I see a kit on Moparmall that has the joint and the ball and trunion. My ball and trunion is fine. I just need the rear U-joint.


I am in the same boat

This is what you found, right?

http://www.moparmall.com/1603998-1752680-1752623-Universal-Joints-D...



I am hoping that they will sell just the "ear'd" Rear Cross U-joint.

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jaded13640
Posted 2018-09-13 12:49 AM (#570034 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?


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Actually what I did was took a yolk from a 7 1/4 rear end and it fit on but was a little too deep so I put it in the lath and removed about 1/4". There's still more than enough material and now the lock nut goes all the way on and now I can use a 10 dollar U joint! I'm surprised you found that. Now my ball and trunion is getting noisy but if the U joint ever goes bad again it'll only cost me 10 bucks.

Wayne
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-09-13 9:12 PM (#570067 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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If you have extra gear sets, you can just swap the yolk out with the same course small spine version from a later gear.
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60 dart
Posted 2018-09-13 11:36 PM (#570077 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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precision 315G , 6 and 8 are the same ---------------------------------------------------later

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=pr...
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mstrug
Posted 2018-09-14 4:12 AM (#570082 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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https://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/moog-315g

https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Driveline-315G-Universal-Joint/dp/B...

Edited by mstrug 2018-09-14 4:13 AM
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jaded13640
Posted 2018-09-14 7:29 AM (#570084 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: RE: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?


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Posts: 94
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I see a kit on Moparmall that has the joint and the ball and trunion. My ball and trunion is fine. I just need the rear U-joint.

But none of the parts stores have a listing earlier than 58.

Can anyone look up the series of U-joint for the Surburban with the 325 poly v-8?

Thanks,

Wayne
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-14 8:03 AM (#570085 - in reply to #570084)
Subject: RE: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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Phone Mopar Mall and find out whether they will sell you just the rear U-joint.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-09-14 12:53 PM (#570094 - in reply to #570077)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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The 315G joint recommended doesn't have the tabs needed for a '57 but the 314G does.

https://www.ebay.com/p/NOS-Genuine-Wesco-U-joint-D7225-Borg-Warner-1...

Edited by 57chizler 2018-09-14 1:05 PM




(U-joint.jpg)



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Attachments U-joint.jpg (133KB - 27 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-14 2:24 PM (#570096 - in reply to #570084)
Subject: RE: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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jaded13640 - 2018-09-14 7:29 AM
Can anyone look up the series of U-joint for the Surburban with the 325 poly v-8?

Thanks, Wayne


57Chizler has already posted the PN via a photo but to confirm, it appears that the PN for a rear U-joint on a 57 Suburban should be a 1752 623 (see below). Note that in the second listing below, 1752 623 is made up of several components. Perhaps it will be possible to find those components easier that trying to find the complete assembly.



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-09-14 2:27 PM




(1752623RearUniversalApplicationList.jpg)



(1752623RearUniversalComponentList.jpg)



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Attachments 1752623RearUniversalApplicationList.jpg (238KB - 23 downloads)
Attachments 1752623RearUniversalComponentList.jpg (196KB - 24 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-09-14 2:32 PM (#570098 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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And there's one for sale for only $450! This guy is just waiting for suckers to throw good money after foolishness.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Genuine-Wesco-U-Joint-D7225-Borg-Warner...
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-14 10:19 PM (#570119 - in reply to #570096)
Subject: RE: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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56D500boy - 2018-09-14 2:24 PM
57Chizler has already posted the PN via a photo but to confirm, it appears that the PN for a rear U-joint on a 57 Suburban should be a 1752 623 (see below). Note that in the second listing below, 1752 623 is made up of several components. Perhaps it will be possible to find those components easier that trying to find the complete assembly.


My local Chryco NOS guy, Ron W. looked up the cross-overs for my 1643 172 56 Dodge D63 Rear U-joint and came up with this list: 947550, 1450249, 1643172 and 1752623. So if you find a source with more than one 1752 623, please let me (us) know.

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local2Ed
Posted 2018-09-14 10:29 PM (#570120 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: RE: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?


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Can a 315g u-joint be used with the normal straps?

On my 1957 Sierra, I looked at the rear joint but did not take measurements, and by eye it looked like a 315g with the normal straps would work.

I would be surprised if it was that easy.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-09-14 11:25 PM (#570122 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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No, not a good idea. The yolk that holds these u-joints is REALLY shallow. You would have to use really long bolts and there would be a big air gap in between. It wouldn't be safe with the small size of those bolts setup like that.
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60 dart
Posted 2018-09-15 12:11 AM (#570125 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=16523&...
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jaded13640
Posted 2018-09-15 12:53 AM (#570129 - in reply to #570098)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?


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Powerflite - 2018-09-14 2:32 PM

And there's one for sale for only $450! This guy is just waiting for suckers to throw good money after foolishness.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Genuine-Wesco-U-Joint-D7225-Borg-Warner...

Yea, that probably seems crazy stupid high but as I understand it they discontinued that style of U-joint back in 58. I'm kind of surprised anyone would have one.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-09-15 11:30 AM (#570142 - in reply to #570120)
Subject: RE: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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local2Ed - 2018-09-14 7:29 PM

Can a 315g u-joint be used with the normal straps?

On my 1957 Sierra, I looked at the rear joint but did not take measurements, and by eye it looked like a 315g with the normal straps would work.

I would be surprised if it was that easy.


I recently did a complete rear end swap in my '57 Sierra using a later C-body rear and had a chance to compare the two since the new rear uses the 7260 (315G) joint. No chance for an interchange but, in my case, I found the dimensions of the cross shaft to be identical so I merely swapped the end caps.

As mentioned above, since the available correct joints are insanely priced, swapping the yokes is the most practical way to go.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-09-15 12:18 PM (#570145 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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You could probably sell those unusual end caps to other people now.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-09-16 2:32 PM (#570196 - in reply to #570145)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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I thought about that but I included the orphan end caps when I sold the '57 rear end.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-16 3:50 PM (#570201 - in reply to #570196)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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I am having trouble tracking down the equivalent 56 Dodge rear U-joint, 1635 099. I am starting to wonder why somebody hasn't figured out how to convert the OE U-joint to use a more common cross, perhaps by machining new attachment

From this:



To a modified version using one of these (probably the 1310 or 1330):




REFERENCE: http://www.driveshaftspecialist.com/HTML%20Measure/UJ%20ID%20Guide....

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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-16 6:35 PM (#570208 - in reply to #570201)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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Sunday afternoon. What to do? What to do? I know!! Remove my driveshaft and investigate the front and rear U-joints.

The grease in the front ball and trunion is like thick molasses/thin tar. It's coming out.

Here is the diagram of the rear U-joint. I am going to take some measurements and see if I can be matched up to a 1310 or 1330 (plus new caps ??)





(56_57DodgeAndOthersStyleRearUJoint.jpg)



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Attachments 56_57DodgeAndOthersStyleRearUJoint.jpg (96KB - 29 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-16 9:03 PM (#570214 - in reply to #570208)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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56D500boy - 2018-09-16 6:35 PM I am going to take some measurements and see if I can be matched up to a 1310 or 1330 (plus new caps ??)


Based on what I measured I would say my 1643 172 rear U-joint is very similar to a 1310 (not withstanding the cap issues):

"1310 U-Joint Series is the most common U-Joint ever used. It is still used on OE applications. 1.062 cap and 3.219 width. (1 1/16 x 3 1/4 close)"

REFERENCE: http://www.driveshaftspecialist.com/HTML%20Measure/UJ%20ID%20Guide....

I forgot to measure the cap diameter(s).



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-09-17 12:44 AM




(56DodgeD500RearU_Joint_2_Annotated.jpg)



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Attachments 56DodgeD500RearU_Joint_2_Annotated.jpg (226KB - 33 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-16 10:38 PM (#570219 - in reply to #570214)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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Or maybe, as some one else has suggested, the rear is based on a 7260 "small Dodge" U-joint:

"7260 is 2.125 Inside Lock and 1.078 cap. 7260 is referred to as the "small Dodge" joint. It is similar in size to the 1310 but the locks are on the inside. This U-Joint series was used extensively up to 1980's in cars and trucks. The 7260 was even used in Dodge Dually trucks."



REFERENCE: http://www.driveshaftspecialist.com/HTML%20Measure/UJ%20ID%20Guide....

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Powerflite
Posted 2018-09-17 12:01 AM (#570225 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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It may take you a while, but you get there eventually. Yes, chizler just stated that the 7260 joint will interchange with the odd-ball caps....
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-17 12:51 AM (#570226 - in reply to #570225)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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Powerflite - 2018-09-17 12:01 AM

It may take you a while, but you get there eventually. Yes, chizler just stated that the 7260 joint will interchange with the odd-ball caps....


Thanks for the slap upside the head. I read 57Chizler's comments before but I got confused about which rear diff he was talking about and what a 315G was *NOW* I get it.

57chizler - 2018-09-15 11:30 AM

local2Ed - 2018-09-14 7:29 PM

Can a 315g u-joint be used with the normal straps?

On my 1957 Sierra, I looked at the rear joint but did not take measurements, and by eye it looked like a 315g with the normal straps would work.

I would be surprised if it was that easy.


I recently did a complete rear end swap in my '57 Sierra using a later C-body rear and had a chance to compare the two since the new rear uses the 7260 (315G) joint. No chance for an interchange but, in my case, I found the dimensions of the cross shaft to be identical so I merely swapped the end caps.

As mentioned above, since the available correct joints are insanely priced, swapping the yokes is the most practical way to go.


OFF to a local parts store tomorrow to track down a 7260 like this Dana (or Neapco NEW - DISTRIBUTED BY PDQ / NEAPCO / BRUTE FORCE):

5-788X Dana Spicer U Joint Detroit 7260/1310





Edited by 56D500boy 2018-09-17 11:05 AM
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60 dart
Posted 2018-09-17 2:25 PM (#570256 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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yes , thats how ya know for sure what works and what won't ------------------------------------------later
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-17 6:57 PM (#570279 - in reply to #570256)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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60 dart - 2018-09-17 2:25 PM
yes , thats how ya know for sure what works and what won't ------------------------------------------later


Where's that guy (or guys) that said a 315G was an easy swap "just swap the earred caps onto the new U-joint"??? - WELL, IT ISN"T that easy (why did I think it would be?)

- That is, unless I am missing something or I am very stupid. There is a chance of one or the other but NOT both

The Moog 315G looks like it should work. The end caps are about the same diameter (1.080") as the OE caps (as near as I can measure with my Vernier caliper). The distance across the caps is a bit larger than the OE drive shaft yoke but that would probably work out with the C-clips installed.

The biggest and fatal issue is the diameter of the U-joint shaft. The OE shaft is about 0.579". The Moog 315G is pretty much 0.65". Therefore, the OE earred caps will not fit on the Moog 315G shaft which was going to be the winner solution (if worked). So....FAIL.

Unless I am missing something, the only way to make a Moog 315G work would be to have new earred end caps designed and machined. And that won't be cheap.

Some photos:





Edited by 56D500boy 2018-09-17 9:01 PM




(Moog315GComparedToOE56Dodge1643172.jpg)



(OE1643172WithEarredEndCapsOff.jpg)



(Moog315WithEndCapOff.jpg)



(Moog315GEndCapComparedToOE1643172EarredEndCap.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Moog315GComparedToOE56Dodge1643172.jpg (180KB - 22 downloads)
Attachments OE1643172WithEarredEndCapsOff.jpg (150KB - 27 downloads)
Attachments Moog315WithEndCapOff.jpg (148KB - 28 downloads)
Attachments Moog315GEndCapComparedToOE1643172EarredEndCap.jpg (110KB - 23 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-09-17 7:21 PM (#570281 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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You should measure the bearing diameter on both of them too. If they are offset just right, it might work if you swap bearings as well, but it's a long shot.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-17 9:05 PM (#570287 - in reply to #570281)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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Powerflite - 2018-09-17 7:21 PM

You should measure the bearing diameter on both of them too. If they are offset just right, it might work if you swap bearings as well, but it's a long shot.



Nathan: I did measure and report the shaft and bearing diameters. The bearing diameters are very similar, e.g. 1.080". The shaft diameters of the OE 1643 172 and the Moog 315G are completely different (0.579" vs 0.65"). As a result, the OE earred caps will NOT fit on the Moog 315G and the Moog 315G caps would be too loose on the OE U-joint.

Where are those guys that have done this swap? I need to hear the trick (maybe the 315G isn't the right one to use (??))

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Powerflite
Posted 2018-09-17 9:18 PM (#570288 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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The bearings are the many little cylindrical rods that are packed inside the cap. Compare their diameters as well.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-09-17 9:20 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-18 1:40 AM (#570295 - in reply to #570288)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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Powerflite - 2018-09-17 9:18 PM
The bearings are the many little cylindrical rods that are packed inside the cap. Compare their diameters as well.


Yes, I know that the little cylindrical rods are called needle bearings. One of my first automotive mechanical experiences was in the mid-1960's when I was about 13 (about 54 years ago) and my father tasked me with cleaning and repacking the bearings on the the front trunion bearings on his then 1955 Dodge Regent (later mine when I turned 16). It was instilled on me that there would be hell to pay if I lost any of the needle bearings in the process. I did not lose any. That was in my mind today when I was handling the two U-joints and their respective needle bearing-filled caps.

The thing is the difference in the U-joint shaft diameters is massive. I would want somebody with a BTDT to tell me that that is the 100% way to go before I start pulling needle bearings out of the two U-joint caps and swapping them.

I am waiting to hear from these "Cap Swappers".



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57chizler
Posted 2018-09-18 12:41 PM (#570304 - in reply to #570295)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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This is the caveat with cap swapping, any aftermarket maker is free to chose the cross shaft diameter as long as the cap diameter and width dimensions remain the same as the original.

In my case, I was lucky because both of my u-joints were original Detroit.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-18 1:34 PM (#570309 - in reply to #570304)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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57chizler - 2018-09-18 12:41 PM

This is the caveat with cap swapping, any aftermarket maker is free to chose the cross shaft diameter as long as the cap diameter and width dimensions remain the same as the original.
In my case, I was lucky because both of my u-joints were original Detroit.


Thanks, John. I see now the issue, i.e. if one uses a "normal" Detroit brand cross-type U-joint of the same vintage as the OE capped/earred U-joint, the shaft diameter could be (or was in your case) the same. Therefore, you were able so swap the caps (and the needle bearings) and make it work. Very lucky (for you). No so for me.

Any chance you kept the PN of the cross-type Detroit joint so I can try to track one down on the interweb?

In the meantime, I have made an attempt at re-packing my existing U-joints (front and rear) and I have painted my driveshaft (Tremclad semi-gloss black rust paint) so I have made some (minor) improvements to my car and made it a bit better than it was on Sunday AM.

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DepsilonD
Posted 2018-09-18 5:23 PM (#570330 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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Dave F.

If you set up some ebay searches (for the conversions below) they do get posted for reasonable prices (I bought one for $19.00), I have also had luck cold calling driveline shops (found one for $80).

Here are the cross references:

BW: 114-265, A.E.C.: AE-265, Alloy: J72625-2, Lempco: U447, Neapco: 285700G, Pilot: 17228, Precision: 314G, Republic: CB-72625-2, Spicer: 5-1304X, TRW: 20029

Mopar: 1643172, 1752623, 1540249, 947550, 1450249, D-132
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-18 6:49 PM (#570334 - in reply to #570330)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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DepsilonD - 2018-09-18 5:23 PM

Dave F.

If you set up some ebay searches (for the conversions below) they do get posted for reasonable prices (I bought one for $19.00), I have also had luck cold calling driveline shops (found one for $80).

Here are the cross references: BW: 114-265, A.E.C.: AE-265, Alloy: J72625-2, Lempco: U447, Neapco: 285700G, Pilot: 17228, Precision: 314G, Republic: CB-72625-2, Spicer: 5-1304X, TRW: 20029
Mopar: 1643172, 1752623, 1540249, 947550, 1450249, D-132


Thanks Dave N. I had five of the Mopar numbers, they all supersede to 1752 623. I didn't have the other ones but I think my NOS guy does.

I contacted Mopar Mall today about their U-joint kits (front and rear for the 1957 Dodges, etc). The rear U-joint in the kit is a 1752 623 and he has three left. *HE* will NOT break the set up. The front part of the kit is a 1643 287 which is for the "P29 Fury, D63, S23, C71, All" so the parts would be useful.

I will check these "new" numbers with my NOS guy to see if he has anything.

Otherwise I will keep checking eBay using your info and hoping.

OR...



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-09-18 9:12 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-09-18 8:41 PM (#570344 - in reply to #570334)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?



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Dave N (Depsilon D): I checked all of the numbers at the Collectors Auto site and NONE of them show up there.

Back to eBay I guess.



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-09-18 8:42 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-10-05 3:29 PM (#571178 - in reply to #570344)
Subject: What do you think of this "NOS" rear U-joint



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This came from a well-known but nameless (for now) supplier. I know NOS things can be less than clean but this is rusty, broken and rough (when the bearing caps are moved it fells chunky)

Live and learn. I am not going to live long enough to get it all figured.





(NOS1450249RearUJointBoxOct5_2018_closed.jpg)



(NOS1450249RearUJointBoxOct5_2018_open.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments NOS1450249RearUJointBoxOct5_2018_closed.jpg (121KB - 17 downloads)
Attachments NOS1450249RearUJointBoxOct5_2018_open.jpg (145KB - 14 downloads)
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jaded13640
Posted 2018-10-05 9:07 PM (#571187 - in reply to #478876)
Subject: Re: Rear U-joint series for a 57 Surburban with 325 poly?


Regular

Posts: 94
252525
Yea, not the way to go, you have to swap the yoke and possibly have it modified a little but going with NOS on something that hasn't been produced since something like 58 wouldn't be the way to go I wouldn't think.
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