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Location: The Mile High City | A house next door to me is going through a major renovation and one of the general contractors, Doug, came over to check out the Dodges several weeks ago. He mentioned he has a very good friend who recently purchased a 1958 Imperial convertible. Saturday was a gorgeous day in the Mile High City and I was out raking the lawn. Doug comes over and says "I am calling my friend." He calls and says "Dan's going to drive his Imperial over here right now."
Dan comes over with this car (sorry the pictures are poor quality) - a very nice fellow. His Imperial is one of just 675 ever produced! He purchased this car about a year ago from Canada. It turns out this was one of Max Sokolov's cars. The pictures don't do it justice. The green paint was deep, lustrous, outstanding - the SMS interior flawless. A full frame off restoration of a low mileage car in it's original color. It has power windows, power locks, working search tune radio, and a six way power swivel seat and wheel covers from 1959.
Dan drove me around the neighborhood in the Imperial - the 392 ran flawlessly. People were stopping traffic to get pictures of this car! You could not drive this car a single block without someone making a compliment. I told Dan about the forward look website and I hope he will sign up and post some pictures.
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Posts: 1886
| I bet it took a lot of green, to get that much green lol |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Beautiful car, Mike, thanks for the pics!!
Greg |
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Location: North Australia | Wow, what a car! It must have been a privilege to ride in such a rare and beautiful Imperial.
Steve. |
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | That's a great color not seen very often on Imperials. Thanks for sharing! |
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Location: The Mile High City | I was thrilled when Dan came over with that Imperial. He was telling me the color was very rare too! Dan is a member of the Imperial Club and someone there thought it might be the only Imperial convertible to be painted Cypress Green. I did look at the data tag and it is coded FFF.
Unfortunately, I did not know how to read the data tag and could not tell where the top color code was. Even worse, by the time I grabbed my camera, Dan was in talking with Doug and the hood was closed, so I did not get a picture of the data tag! I wondered if that silver top was a "special top" code!
Is the hood ornament rare too? |
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Location: The Mile High City | It looks like Dan has this in the Denver Mecum Auction on June 26 - 27
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/DN0615-215784/0/1958-Imperial-Crown-Convertible/Automatic/ |
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Location: The Mile High City | Wow! There are some really neat cars in the auction and a Chris Craft - I think Dan's Imperial is the only ForwardLook car. That might be fun to see... |
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Lancer Mike - 2014-11-25 10:20 AM
I was thrilled when Dan came over with that Imperial. He was telling me the color was very rare too! Dan is a member of the Imperial Club and someone there thought it might be the only Imperial convertible to be painted Cypress Green. I did look at the data tag and it is coded FFF.
Unfortunately, I did not know how to read the data tag and could not tell where the top color code was. Even worse, by the time I grabbed my camera, Dan was in talking with Doug and the hood was closed, so I did not get a picture of the data tag! I wondered if that silver top was a "special top" code!
Is the hood ornament rare too?
Maybe Phillipe will chime in with info about the top colors. He's the best source I know of for decoding Imperials.
The hood ornaments were optional. I see them often but then again none of my 5 Imperials have one so I don't know if that makes hood ornaments rare or not? |
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Definitely looks like a fun auction to see! |
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Location: The Mile High City | Thank Goodness Don! I thought I was the only guy left chirping down here in the Rocky Mountain Region;
I was ready to pull the plug! 
This one is really cool. Max must have had the '59 swivel seats installed. It is a neat touch. I have never seen the top up, but I would like to see that shade of silver.
I have seen pictures of that hood ornament too - this is the only one I have seen live and in person. |
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Posts: 1287
| Lancer Mike - 2015-06-09 10:54 PM
Thank Goodness Don! I thought I was the only guy left chirping down here in the Rocky Mountain Region;
I was ready to pull the plug!
Mike --
Don't feel too bad. I believe that I'm the only guy in all of the Home of the Forward Look that likes 1960 2-dr Fury hardtops with stock high-performance engines. In the event that there are some '60 2-dr Belvie (h/t or SEE-dan ) or 2-dr Savoy post guys out there, I want you to know that there is a bit of animosity for those cars because of the number a guy in an ugly (repeat, UGLY ) green Savoy 2-dr post did on me in 1961 at CDR. Actually, I'd love to meet him and shake his hand especially since I didn't have the common courtesy to do that way back when. Of course, in view of the fact that I also hardly, if ever, shied away from a "Stop-Light Grand Prix," I understand that the FLK are more circumspect than I (even though the statute of limitations has long since expired ).
Joe
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | The irony is that Rocky Mountain isn't even my local region. They should change the name of my Heartland Region to "Dust-bowl and Tumbleweeds"
Yes, the swivel seats are definitely a custom touch. I didn't notice them in the original pictures you posted above. I think the '58 appearing upholstery camouflages them well.
I'm jealous you got to see this one in person let alone ride in it! I've never seen a 57-58 Imperial convertible in person. In fact, after 22 years of pursuing these I've only seen a total of 11 of the 57-58 2dr/4dr models in person and I bought 6 of them and unsuccessfully bid on a 7th at an auction. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Well, come on out and buy this one! Joe and I will buy you a beer and you can stay at my place! |
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Thanks for the offer but I'd have to sell all my Imperials and probably my house too in order to afford that convert! |
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Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | Beautiful and rare car!! Is the interior upholstery or exterior paint the actual original color? Note the conflicting colors of the overall dashboard pad etc and the immediate surround of the instruments... seems like clashing colors, the Spruce Green paint color of '58 Chryslers would be a much closer match to this interior!
Edited by firedome 2015-06-11 10:22 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Roger:
That is possibly a function of my camera rather than how the colors relate to the actual car? I think the exterior and interior colors are correct to the data plate. My understanding is that the interior is from SMS. Both interior and exterior look great in person - and nothing looked way off like it might in the digital image. I haven't heard from Max Sokolov in quite a while, but he could probably answer all restoration questions with great authority. |
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Posts: 394
Location: Royal Oak, MI | Gorgeous. My favorite year Imperial in a fantastic color. I believe that the interior code would correctly read 084, for the green leather option. |
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Location: The Mile High City | I wish I would have taken a picture of that data plate!
What do you think would be a fair value for this car when it crosses the auction block? |
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Posts: 394
Location: Royal Oak, MI | Lancer Mike - 2015-06-11 11:24 PM
I wish I would have taken a picture of that data plate!
What do you think would be a fair value for this car when it crosses the auction block?
My best guess would be $110K - $120K, but a real Imperial expert might have a more accurate answer.
Edited by Boris56 2015-06-12 4:24 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Yeah, I was in about that same range. Perhaps a little higher even - $120K to $130K. If I owned it, I would be reluctant to sell below $120K.
I guess it all depends on how much the owner put into it. |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Montreal, Canada | I had these pics of the same car saved on my computer:
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$(KGrHqJ,!ooFG4WHNFf)BR)Mvbzj6Q~~48_20.jpg (96KB - 223 downloads)
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$T2eC16VHJIYE9qUcNkeiBR)MvdBF8g~~48_20.jpg (87KB - 196 downloads)
$T2eC16Z,!)EE9s2uiO)-BR)Mvm4KZ!~~48_20.jpg (88KB - 165 downloads)
$(KGrHqZ,!rQFGtk)9Zt+BR)MvoMqV!~~48_20.jpg (88KB - 189 downloads)
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Posts: 1886
| Hard to say without putting eyes on it. In JAN a 60 went for 100. End of day, takes 2 guys. The color might hurt it more than anything sadly. I like the unique color, but some might not. |
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Location: The Mile High City | My dad and I were talking about this auction. He was going to put his 1950 Ford Custom convertible in. I guess they want $750 to enter. If the car sells, the seller pays 8% to Mecum.
The buyer probably pays a percentage too. I am sure they charge everyone who attends.
Given all that, I would pump up my reserve a bit. I don't think I would sell under $130K! |
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Posts: 1886
| Lancer Mike - 2015-06-14 8:28 PM
My dad and I were talking about this auction. He was going to put his 1950 Ford Custom convertible in. I guess they want $750 to enter. If the car sells, the seller pays 8% to Mecum.
The buyer probably pays a percentage too. I am sure they charge everyone who attends.
Given all that, I would pump up my reserve a bit. I don't think I would sell under $130K!
Not sure how realistic 130 is given market conditions. In January one sold for 70k plus fee's.
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Archive/Event/Item/1958-CHRYSLER-IMP...
I looked over this car quite a few times. It did have some modifications, but was actually a nice car. Nicer than the 60 that sold right after it that went for 100. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Mike McCandless - 2015-06-14 6:38 PM
Not sure how realistic 130 is given market conditions. In January one sold for 70k plus fee's.
You are probably right, Mike. We'll see what happens.
Thanks for the pictures David. I don't think I have ever seen her with her top up (don't you wish you could say that in a few more situations)
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Well, it's "top down" weather now, so, guys, we need to do whatever we can to promote it!!
Greg |
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Posts: 1886
| I predict 110 |
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Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | A very nice (#2) 1957 in gorgeous Sunset Rose just sold at Auctions America for $76,450, almost identical in price to the red '58 mentioned above. See page 14 of Hemmings Classic Cars current issue. I'd say it looks like that 75k range seems to be the market right now. Green would likely be less popular ordinarily, but who knows. Longer range I'd predict as current owners and fan-base age, prices may well drop significantly over time. |
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Location: The Mile High City | I wonder if the somewhat lower market prices might have something to do with the styling of the Imperials? They have grown on me, but long ago I used to think they were a little far out for my taste. Now I look at this one and think: wow! big-fins, convertible, power windows (curved), 392, touch-tone - what's not to love?
If this were a Chrysler or De Soto, would it be more valuable? Production numbers are all in the same ballpark, but the styling is very different between the Imperials and the Chrysler / De Soto. Chrysler / and particularly De Soto may have been less likely to get the geegaw options and De Soto lacks the big engine.
Plymouth and Dodge convertibles had higher production numbers, so those are more like comparing apples and oranges. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Here is the 2006 - 2015 value guide from Haggerty. I like theirs better than NADA.
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vbe=29608
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58 Imperial Crown Convertible Value Guide.pdf (396KB - 162 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | 2 identical cars, 1 pink, 1 green, my bet goes that the green one gets more $
I am biased though, I have never seen a pink car made that I would want to leave pink, only way I would own one would be for my wife or daughter (she isnt old enough yet) if they specifically asked for one
My bias towards pink cars is like the 2 door bias, I think they all need to be painted as much as the 2 door guys think 4 doors and wagons are parts cars
That imperial is very impressive
As for Mikes comment above, I am not so sure that any of one make would demand more than any other, convertible anything done well gets good money and the rarer it is, generally, the more it gets
One thing to remember is that everyone saves the "desirable" cars, so theres a million of them, the less "desirable" cars get rarer all the time and become more and more valuable, I will concede that that probably goes for pink cars as well 
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS |
I also like the Hagerty guide (mostly for the scope of makes/models covered) but all guides are just that, a guide.
It's interesting how the entire line of 1958 Imperials took a sudden (approx) 30% jump in values on their guide in Aug 2013. I wonder what justified their increased figures in such a short period? Either their previous figures were grossly undervalued or something monumental should have happened. I don't see hardtop versions of these cars, in restored condition, selling often enough to rule out an occasional anomaly. Without regular sales or a strong demand / large base of buyers, it's very difficult it is to accurately value these cars. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 558
Location: Grenoble - France | Top colors for 1958 were:
321 Black top
322 White top
323 Blue top
324 Green top
There are few wrong things with the green Imperial to be 100% correct, but overall, it looks great. |
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Location: The Mile High City | The guides are interesting:
Does the guide drive the value or does the value drive the guide?
I could see in some of these recent Imperial convertible sales a bidder in the audience with a smart phone accessing the Hagerty site and bidding accordingly.
However, in the recent sale of Tom Gerrard's 1958 Firedome convertible, a bidder had to have it and broke all the guideline barriers. Then the guides had to be adjusted - which Hagerty did. I like Hagerty because they at least seem to be informed of recent sales activity. NADA seems more random - if it isn't a tri-five Chevy or a Ford Mustang, you are dealing with some kook's wild guess!
Something tells me there was a sale of an Imperial (sedan, hardtop, or convertible) sometime around Aug 2013 and Hagerty had to make adjustments. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Imp58Alpes - 2015-06-18 2:28 PM
Top colors for 1958 were:
321 Black top
322 White top
323 Blue top
324 Green top
There are few wrong things with the green Imperial to be 100% correct, but overall, it looks great.
Frederic, is there a code for a "special color" top or a possibility that a different color could be installed at the factory? |
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Posts: 558
Location: Grenoble - France | I unfortunately do not know. I would guess it could be possible, but so far, I have only seen special paint and special interior orders for 1957 and 1958 models. |
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Expert
Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | Over the last 40 yrs or so I've always preferred the Old Cars Report Price Guides (from publishers of Old cars Weekly). Their publishers are exclusively in the vintage car reporting business and they were the first to develop the #1-6 condition rating system. I started reading Old Cars Weekly around 1975-ish. and I've found them to be very accurate overall: price data are based on auction, dealer AND verified private sales AND actual input from vintage car experts, Haggerty and NADA do not include the 2 latter. My Price Guide issue is now 3 yrs old so not up to date, I don't subscribe any more, but as of 2012 the '58 Imp Crown was listed as $100k for #1 and $70k for #2, these may or may not be low today. Sales of Imp verts are rare enough that sale of a single exceptional example could influence the reported average over the short term, but the fact that 2 #2 cars have sold for around $75k very recently gives a good indication of where the market is right now.
As to Imp vs. DeS and Chrysler, I too prefer the latter's styling and thus would myself pay more to own one of those than the Imp, which to me is a bit heavy handed, lacking the elegance of clean design of the 2 more "Jr" makes. YYMV.
Edited by firedome 2015-06-19 9:53 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | Lot S109.
I am not going to go.
It may make the live Saturday broadcast: NBCSN 1-4 PM ET, 11AM - 2PM MT
Also, there is a Chrysler / Plymouth service sign at auction on the same day
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chrysler plymouth service sign.jpg (223KB - 179 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1886
| 75k, didn't meet reserve |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5006
| btw those signs are new, you can simply buy them off the net |
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Location: The Mile High City | Hemmings advertisement - asking price: $99,000
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/chrysler/imperial/1751764.html?refer=blog |
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Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | Well the fact that it went to $75k just like the other 2 that sold this spring tells you something. |
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Now on Craigslist for $82K
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5111445022.html |
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1958 Imperial Crown Convertible
