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55 Chrysler AAJ Disk Brake Conversion Jump to page : 1 2 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
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Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | Got going on my conversion. Here is some of the progress. (WP_20141122_001a.jpg) (WP_20141122_002a.jpg) (WP_20141122_003a.jpg) (WP_20141122_004a.jpg) (WP_20141122_005a.jpg) (WP_20141122_006a.jpg) (WP_20141122_007a.jpg) (WP_20141101_003.jpg) (WP_20141101_006a.jpg) Attachments ---------------- WP_20141122_001a.jpg (204KB - 387 downloads) WP_20141122_002a.jpg (201KB - 371 downloads) WP_20141122_003a.jpg (158KB - 377 downloads) WP_20141122_004a.jpg (116KB - 412 downloads) WP_20141122_005a.jpg (213KB - 378 downloads) WP_20141122_006a.jpg (205KB - 416 downloads) WP_20141122_007a.jpg (180KB - 424 downloads) WP_20141101_003.jpg (193KB - 360 downloads) WP_20141101_006a.jpg (193KB - 387 downloads) | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | ok. Things didn't quite come together like they should have. That picture labeled WP_20141122_004a.jpg. Well that didn't work. This caused binding of the outer pad on the rotor. I not only had to remove the spacers, I had to add more clearance between the mount and the caliper bracket. See pictures attached. This allowed proper alignment and a free spinning tire once everything was attached. (WP_20141123_003 (360x640).jpg) (WP_20141123_004 (640x360) (2).jpg) (WP_20141123_006 (640x360).jpg) Attachments ---------------- WP_20141123_003 (360x640).jpg (170KB - 400 downloads) WP_20141123_004 (640x360) (2).jpg (195KB - 377 downloads) WP_20141123_006 (640x360).jpg (213KB - 347 downloads) | ||
DepsilonD |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 792 Location: Buena Park, CA | Nice write-up Beltran!!!!!!! Good information for all 55-56 Mopar owners. | ||
57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3768 Location: NorCal | Beltran - 2014-11-23 4:05 PM ok. Things didn't quite come together like they should have. I've said it repeatedly, if you're gonna install a "kit" you better have a modicum of fabrication skill. | ||
ttotired |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8443 Location: Perth Australia | Just a caution note It looks like the 3 bolts that are in a line are a bit to short for the nyloc nuts, the thread neads to go through the nuts by about 1/4" | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | They were not tightened down in that picture. but with that 1/8'' steel in there.. I will double check those notes. Thanks for pointing it out. I have sent the pictures to Roger at AAJ and he said 'this ain't right'.. and we are working on figuring out what is different about my car / parts and why this alignment of the caliper is off. Will update this with news when we figure it out. He says this kit has worked on many 55 Chrysler and Desoto's and he has never seen this before. It seems I may have a late model 55 that has 56 front brake parts? I had studded hubs not threaded hubs on the front. Or perhaps the rotors I got are too thick. These are theories we are investigating. | ||
55coronet440 |
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Veteran Posts: 272 Location: Missouri | Is the AAJ kit for the Chrysler and Desoto different than that for the Dodge/Plymouth? Are you using 12" rotors compared to my 11" Volare rotors? My caliper brackets are 1-piece where yours are 2-piece. But I'm not familiar with The Chryslers/Desotos either so it just seems strange. Glad I didn't have the trouble you did but sometimes things do not go smoothly. | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | I think they are different. I am using 12" rotors. It's not so much trouble for me... I am used to making mods. And it's a small mod really. | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | ok just got off the phone with Roger. We believe with some certainty that my car has a non-standard front brake setup. I should have had threaded hubs on my car. Anyone else out there have a 55 Chrysler / Desoto please respond and let me know if you have threaded front hubs or studs coming out of your hub. I need a validation point. Now the question is, what hubs do I have? It has 2 1/2 wide shoes. 57, 58? When did Chrysler start putting studs on the hubs vs the old threaded type? I could try and locate some threaded hubs and use those instead. This would make the kit work 'as designed'. But I only need to make sure my bolts extend properly past the nyloc and these will work as is. Any experts with front brake drum / hub experience willing to give me a lesson in Chrysler / Desoto / Dodge / Plymouth hub and drum designs from 1955 - 1960? I would really like to know what I have here so I understand how this could possibly be changed so easily without changing the entire front brake system? Could a Drum / Hub with Studs combination just be attached right over a stock 2 1/2" wide brake shoe setup without modifications? Edited by Beltran 2014-12-10 8:58 PM | ||
snik |
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Veteran Posts: 184 Location: Canada | you mean the way the wheel mounts on the drums? Mine has threaded drums and I use studs (similar to Mercedes) to mount the wheels. Clockwise on one side, counter clockwise on the other side. I can't recall for sure, but I believe the driver's side is reverse threaded. here's a picture of my drum: Edited by snik 2014-12-10 11:51 PM (drum.jpg) Attachments ---------------- drum.jpg (104KB - 364 downloads) | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | That's it... I had those on the rear axle but not on the fronts. I have something else now. Not sure what would interchange so easily as it doesn't appear as anything else is different except the hub / drum assembly. Edited by Beltran 2014-12-11 10:23 PM | ||
snik |
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Veteran Posts: 184 Location: Canada | Is it possible that the previous owner may have removed the rivets and installed studs through the hubs in order to fit a different set of drums? I read about a modification of this nature on this forum a while ago ... with the rear though since they are tapered and it's very difficult to remove the whole hub assembly. Perhaps the original front ones were faulty at some point, and the previous owner was unable to source exact replacements. Edited by snik 2014-12-12 1:51 AM | ||
DepsilonD |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 792 Location: Buena Park, CA | This is an interesting discussion. I can say that (at least in 1956) that studs vs. threaded hubs could vary by car model. My 1956 Plymouth Belvedere (LA Built w/ V-8) and 1956 Dodge Custom Royal (Detroit Built w/ V-8) both have studs, whereas, my 1956 Plymouth Savoy parts car has threaded hubs (unknown, with 6). | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | Nick my hubs and drums look very different. Here is a few pics from before I took them apart. They had to be changed wholesale. It's not a threaded > stud conversion. (IMG_0773 (640x480).jpg) (front drum.jpg) Attachments ---------------- IMG_0773 (640x480).jpg (211KB - 371 downloads) front drum.jpg (36KB - 383 downloads) | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | Todays Status. Well it is assembled and bled. Here are the 'finished' pics. (IMG_0026a.jpg) (IMG_0027a.jpg) (IMG_0028a.jpg) (IMG_0029a.jpg) (IMG_0030a.jpg) Attachments ---------------- IMG_0026a.jpg (186KB - 386 downloads) IMG_0027a.jpg (209KB - 363 downloads) IMG_0028a.jpg (172KB - 367 downloads) IMG_0029a.jpg (227KB - 348 downloads) IMG_0030a.jpg (162KB - 376 downloads) | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | So I tested it.. and the pedal is mushy and the MC leaks from the rear... seems I have a bad unit... /sigh. Off to get a replacement and bleed them again. | ||
snik |
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Veteran Posts: 184 Location: Canada | Mark, please make sure the rod from booster -> master is adjusted properly. I went through a lot of headaches with my booster/master conversion a few years ago because of that issue. Good news is that the master cyl is pretty cheap, and available at all parts stores. There are 2 models that look identical if I recall correctly, but the bore size is different. Your cars looks amazing.. everything looks so new and shiny.. looks like a $50,000 frame-off resto. Excellent work! Edited by snik 2014-12-15 12:43 AM | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | Funny you mention that rod thing... it's one of the problems. But the second master cylinder is a slightly different design and I won't have that issue. A brand new, not rebuilt, MC cost $38 bucks. Considering I put $350 into rebuilding the 1955 Original 3 times and it still didn't last, I am pleased. Pictures hide a lot. :D It's not that good. But it's what I can afford and I have done all the work. Thanks for the positive comments. PS.. I found this site very handy for troubleshooting / understanding 'hot rod' brake systems. http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/additional-how-to/0710rc-brake-system-... Edited by Beltran 2014-12-15 9:05 PM | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | So to summarize. The AAJ brake system works on a stock 55 Chrysler. The 15" wheels allow the largest brake selection Kit #378. The only modifications I had to make were on the firewall, new holes for the booster to mount up, and the tie-rods had to be shortened. I also had to get new brake lines from the Distribution block to the connections for the front and rear lines located on the frame rail. It's just about as bolt on as you can get. | ||
snik |
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Veteran Posts: 184 Location: Canada | thanks Mark, few Q's about the installation: does the spindle assembly need to be removed from the car, or can the kit be bolted on while the spindle is still on the car? one thing I never understood properly with respect to shortening the tierods .. you have to cut 1/4" from tire rod, 1/4" from tie rod end, and 1/4" from each end of the sleeve right? Then adjust the tie rod, but won't the final product be short? did you have to tap the 3 spindle bolt holes also? trying to figure out a way to minimize shop time when I get started. I have the AAJ master/booster installed already, so it would be a case of shortening the tie rods, bolting on the kit, removing the 10# residual valve, installing a proportioning valve, and doing a couple of lines. just curious, does AAJ make a kit for the '55 rear also? Edited by snik 2014-12-17 11:13 PM | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | few Q's about the installation: | ||
snik |
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Veteran Posts: 184 Location: Canada | awesome.. thanks.. I will try to add this to my summer list.. already have wide white walls, and a proper dual exhaust on the list ... let's see if discs make the list this year, if not, there's always 2016 | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | Update: The booster isn't big enough. It's a 7 inch single diaphragm. I have been researching and spoke with Roger of AAJ. He uses a 8 inch Dual with his kit. So I found an 8" Dual for 94 and a 9" dual for 118. Went with the 9" so I am sure my wife and kids can drive it without worry. Will add this in and I should be golden. Car stops very well but I can't lock the brakes unless I two foot it. Should be able to do it much easier than that. | ||
snik |
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Veteran Posts: 184 Location: Canada | Mark, make sure your master cyl bore size is correct for your setup as well. | ||
snik |
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Veteran Posts: 184 Location: Canada | updates? | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | New Master cylinder and 9 inch booster are on the car... can't test it until the cooling system is finished.. the radiator is being re-crafted from aluminum and my heater valve has been sent off for rebuild. in a few weeks I will have an update. | ||
55coronet440 |
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Veteran Posts: 272 Location: Missouri | On my Coronet I had to tap the 3 holes in each spindle, and grinding the spindle face for rotor clearance is also needed. But I got it all done and now just have to run the line to the rear, plumbing an adjustable prop valve (mounted to the frame via bracket so the knob is right above the carpet in front of my bucket seat). And the 10 lb Wilwood res. valve fitted where the rear rubber line and metal line meet. I'm not using a booster with my '72 Satellite M/C, and the '66 Monaco rear wheel cylinders and 3x11 shoes are new as well. | ||
RestoRon |
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Member Posts: 15 Location: Huntersville, NC USA | Hi Mark, I've decided to take on this project with my recently acquired 56 Windsor. Yours looks great by the way! I'm going to use the Wilwood like you used. I found it at Amazon model # 260-11179 for $68.00. My question concerns the rest of the brake plumbing; do the brake lines from the valve go below and connect into the stock junction block that sits on the frame rail or do the lines go directly to the front calipers and rear brake cylinders? Thanks, Ron | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | I got rid of the stock block, you don't need it anymore. Each line goes direct from the Wilwood. | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | By the way all, it works great. Drove to Carlisle and back with no issues. 1100 miles. Stops like a modern car now, even in the mountains of PA! | ||
Sig556 |
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Member Posts: 46 Location: Roseville, CA | This looks nice and I'm ready to do the same on my 55 New Yorker. debating between AAJ Brakes and ECI's conversion here: http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/dodge_plymouth_discbrake_conversions... There are some big differences: ECI does not come with M/C, valve or lines; however, the bracket bolts to the front, not back so no shortening of the tie rods. I also like the new hub, as opposed to cannibalizing my drums, as it appears is required. OE wheels do not work so I need to buy new rims; which is not necessarily a bad thing. However, the kit, M/C kit, new rims & shipping from CT puts me in the ballpark of AAJ. Im in CA. I have a few questions and called AAJ 2-3 times last week with no response and inquired via email with no response. So I'll see what you can answer for me. Why did you go with AAJBrakes and did you look at (find?) any other conversion kits? Did you go the basic kit or the super? Am I correct that you needed to cannibalize the front drums for the hub? What is the hub adapter for? My drums look like SNIK's above. If there is enough room in the tie rod sleeve, could you possible forego cutting the tie rod ends? Are you able to use the stock OE rims? I'm trying to figure out what makes the most sense. thanks for the insight. | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | Sig556 - 2015-08-10 1:53 PM This looks nice and I'm ready to do the same on my 55 New Yorker. debating between AAJ Brakes and ECI's conversion here: http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/dodge_plymouth_discbrake_conversions... There are some big differences: ECI does not come with M/C, valve or lines; however, the bracket bolts to the front, not back so no shortening of the tie rods. I also like the new hub, as opposed to cannibalizing my drums, as it appears is required [If I recall you could get a complete hub and rotor. It was an option. ]. OE wheels do not work so I need to buy new rims; which is not necessarily a bad thing. However, the kit, M/C kit, new rims & shipping from CT puts me in the ballpark of AAJ. Im in CA. I have a few questions and called AAJ 2-3 times last week with no response and inquired via email with no response. So I'll see what you can answer for me. Why did you go with AAJBrakes and did you look at (find?) any other conversion kits? AAJ had the kit for the 55 Chrysler. I did not find another (at the time) with experience doing that conversion. Desoto, Dodge, Plymouth are not the same as Chrysler. Did you go the basic kit or the super? I did the Basic. He sent me the brackets and all the instructions with the parts list. So I could go locally and buy all the 'heavy' stuff. Less shipping cost. Am I correct that you needed to cannibalize the front drums for the hub? What is the hub adapter for? My drums look like SNIK's above. Yes I did, but this is not a permanent thing. I would recommend you do it because you know those hubs will fit your car properly. I don't see any discussion on a 'hub adaptor' so elaborate please? If there is enough room in the tie rod sleeve, could you possible forego cutting the tie rod ends? No you need to shorten the sleeve to account for the bracket you added. I forgot to shorten all of the perscribed parts and ended up bottoming out the adjustment before being able to make the proper alignment. It's not hard to do this. A cut off saw with a diamond blade will make quick work of this task. EX: http://www.amazon.com/Portable-Grinder-Electric-Grinding-Included/dp/B005HJJ3TI/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1439267417&sr=8-9&keywords=hand+held+grinders
I know that he does go on vacation on occasion and would be out of touch during that time. Give him time he will respond back. BTW he is in Portland Oregon I believe... shipping would be much less. Edited by Beltran 2015-08-11 12:43 AM | ||
Sig556 |
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Member Posts: 46 Location: Roseville, CA | Your answers helped a lot. To follow up on a couple of items. 1) The web page on the basic kit says a) caliper mounting brackets b) adapter c) nuts & bolts d) instructions. I know the picture is a 57 Plymouth, but I assumed the adapter was for the hub; I can't think of what else it might be, based on the picture. 2) So the inner/outer tie rods and the sleeve need to be shortened. Do I understand that correctly? Conceptually I get how the tie rods, etc. work, but I'm very much a noob with them. I get the shortening of the tie rods due to the bracket placement, but doesn't shortening the sleeve reduce the amount of adjustment available? 3) If I've understood correctly, aside from the tie rods, and assuming I have a "normal" set up, everything else should be bolt on. 4) Is it pretty easy to detach the hub from the drum? As for vacation, I thought he might have headed to Reno/Sparks for Hot August Nights; maybe even had a booth. Thanks for all the help and information; it makes a huge difference. Most of my work on the car has been trial and error. This lets me forego some of that. | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | Sig556 - 2015-08-11 12:43 PM Your answers helped a lot. To follow up on a couple of items. 1) The web page on the basic kit says a) caliper mounting brackets b) adapter c) nuts & bolts d) instructions. I know the picture is a 57 Plymouth, but I assumed the adapter was for the hub; I can't think of what else it might be, based on the picture. 2) So the inner/outer tie rods and the sleeve need to be shortened. Do I understand that correctly? Conceptually I get how the tie rods, etc. work, but I'm very much a noob with them. I get the shortening of the tie rods due to the bracket placement, but doesn't shortening the sleeve reduce the amount of adjustment available? By shortening all the pieces you retain all the adjustment necessary. 3) If I've understood correctly, aside from the tie rods, and assuming I have a "normal" set up, everything else should be bolt on. Yes correct. Mine wasn't because I had different hubs. 4) Is it pretty easy to detach the hub from the drum? Ya it wasn't that bad. A sledge hammer helps of course. Also a chisel. A large block of hard wood could be used to prevent any damage to the hubs. / drums. As for vacation, I thought he might have headed to Reno/Sparks for Hot August Nights; maybe even had a booth. Thanks for all the help and information; it makes a huge difference. Most of my work on the car has been trial and error. This lets me forego some of that. | ||
55coronet440 |
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Veteran Posts: 272 Location: Missouri | The machined adapter sleeves are slipped on the spindles and you apply red (hi-strength) Loctite to make sure they don't spin. They adapt the inner bearing and seal of the rotors to the stock spindle. But my '55 Dodge Coronet is different in that I'm using 11" Volare rotors, while the Chryslers employ the stock hubs from the brake drums and the rotors slip on them, at least concerning the 12" usage. Edited by 55coronet440 2015-08-13 2:13 AM | ||
Sig556 |
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Member Posts: 46 Location: Roseville, CA | Mark, I did get in touch with Roger and he was on vacation. I've ordered the bracket kit and it should be arriving shortly. I've got other parts arriving today or am picking them up today so I can hopefully have the brakes done tomorrow. Last night I was trying to finish up re-installing the control arms and steering knuckle. Disassembled to clean and replace where needed. Here's my question and problem: How did you install (i.e. center) the steering knuckle upon reinstallation? Mine isn't lining up. A few days ago, I installed and torqued the upper control arm to specs. I measured from the control arm to the center of the nearest bolt hole and I'm pretty sure I've got the upper pivot bar centered in the control arm. I then installed the steering knuckle to the upper control arm. Again measured and think I am centered. The center of the knuckle appears to line up with the center line of the control arm. Last night I installed the lower control arm, taking measurements and fairly confident the pivot bar is centered in the control arm. I got to attach the knuckle on the lower control arm and, low and behold, I'm off center. I have to actually move the knuckle or control arm a few mm to get the bushing in position to accept the bolt. I know this is not correct. Any thoughts on your procedure would be appreciated. | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | Blain, I don't think 'centering' is a concern here. Remember you have to go have it aligned when your done. It's the suspension in relation to the frame that will determine were the joints need to be. At least I think this is what your talking about. Post some pictures. it would help me visualize what your have challenges with. | ||
Big Swede |
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Member Posts: 19 | Mark, Digesting all the info in this thread for upgrades to my '55 Savoy. What booster/master cylinder did you go with? I see you list it as universal, what was your source? Thanks, Frank | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | GM Large Car "76 Caprice" Master Cylinder Orielly Part NMC1521 (New, not rebuilt) They have so many of these still new they don't want your core. Summit Racing TFF-2224NB Booster Summit Racing Wil-260-3279 Residual Valve Summit Racing Wil-260-13190 Distribution Block. | ||
Big Swede |
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Member Posts: 19 | Beltran - 2015-10-04 7:38 PM GM Large Car "76 Caprice" Master Cylinder Orielly Part NMC1521 (New, not rebuilt) They have so many of these still new they don't want your core. Summit Racing TFF-2224NB Booster Summit Racing Wil-260-3279 Residual Valve Summit Racing Wil-260-13190 Distribution Block. THanks, Mark! By distribution block, did you mean proportioning valve? | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | Yes. it is an adjustable Willwood valve. (IMG_0351.JPG) Attachments ---------------- IMG_0351.JPG (246KB - 386 downloads) | ||
Big Swede |
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Member Posts: 19 | Thanks Mark! Last question for now. Looking at that valve, the rear most bottom line I assume goes to the rear brakes? The front two each go to a front wheel? I really appreciate your help. Frank | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | Yes sir.. and they are clearly labeled with instructions.. You can't go wrong. | ||
Big Swede |
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Member Posts: 19 | Beltran - 2015-10-06 8:08 PM Yes sir.. and they are clearly labeled with instructions.. You can't go wrong. Thanks! | ||
Big Swede |
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Member Posts: 19 | Finally got my booster, proportioning valve and such in order. Did you have to modify the brake pedal rod at all to get it to work with this new setup? | ||
Big Swede |
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Member Posts: 19 | Also, assuming your factory brake lines didn't work, where did you source your new ones? Thanks, Mark. | ||
55BlueHeron |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 528 Location: Medford Oregon | I'm working on doing a conversion using '76 Monte Carlo calipers. I believe they are what you used also. They came with what I presume are anti-rattle clips. Are they, and if so, where do they go? (Anti Rattle Clip 1.jpg) (Anti Rattle Clip 2.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Anti Rattle Clip 1.jpg (48KB - 246 downloads) Anti Rattle Clip 2.jpg (50KB - 229 downloads) | ||
LostDeere59 |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 406 Location: Hilltown, PA | Those clips attach to the backing plate of the inboard disc pad and the prong sticking out fits inside the caliper piston to locate/pre-load the pad. Gregg | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | I made my own lines. Just used the local parts store to get the pieces and created the lengths I needed. | ||
Beltran |
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Expert Posts: 1730 Location: Michigan | When you get it running try a brake torque. See if the brakes will hold the car under load. And if the fronts will lock up on a hard stop. | ||
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