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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | Hi All,
Well, after two weeks on the road, and thousands of Km's, the 1957 DeSoto Fireflite Civil Defense Ambulance is finally home! It was a great trip, with only "minor" issues regarding the paperwork to cross the border. Funny how governments love to change the rules as the game is being played, but yet don't themselves know what is going on...but that is another rant for another day.
My friend Doug went with me on the trip. We visited the Vacuum Cleaner Museum at the Tachony plant in St. James, Missouri. (Doug collects vacuums) We attended the Radiofest at Willowbrook, Illinois (I collect tube radios) and the Illinois Train Museum, where we road various trains, and they were hosting a huge car show!
We stayed at my friend Greg's place near Chicago for nearly a week, visiting antique shops and flea markets among other things. Special thanks to Greg for allowing me to have various parts shipped to him, where he stored them in his garage till we got there to pack em away.
Also thanks to all the wonderful people we met and visited with, from North Dakota all the way to Missouri, and back! 
Does anyone have any history on my Ambulance? I would like to contact anyone with historical knowledge of the car, or the Civil Defence organization in Missouri. Also, finding pictures of the car in service would be great!
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | Dang idiot tailgated us all the way home!  Oh, wait a minute...
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | BY the way...how can Wisconsinites eat SOOOOO much cheese?! |
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Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | What unusual DeSoto that you bought. Fun to read about your journey and the people you met along the way.
Would like to have been involved. |
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Location: Williams California | That's really cool, David!
You'll have to start a thread in Member's rides to highlight your new Desoto.
---John |
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Location: Ocala, Florida | More pics! Awesome. I bet you got a lot of questions on gas stops? |
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| Holy cow, that has to be a 1 of 1 type situation at this point. So freaking cool! |
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Location: Klein, TX | Looking forward to the restoration thread. Great find.
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta | You got it back home! That's fantastic. Glad you managed to make it through customs in one piece. Can't wait to see it. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | There is no reason ALL DeSoto wagons should not have been built with the cool fins,
except the company was being cheap and cheesy. Great looking car !
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Location: North Australia | Some cool road trip photos right there, Congrats on a great score. That is a very unusual looking car. I hope you realise that when you get it going you will attract the weirdest of the weirdo's!
Steve |
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Location: Layton, Utah | It would be interesting to see from inside the quarter panels how the roof was attached to the body. Lead work ? It looks like it has kept away the rust from starting in those areas after all these years. Awesome car ! Doc is right, they should have used these fins on all the wagons. The way the bumper flows into the taillights is one of the main reasons I was attracted to the 57 DeSoto I bought years ago (among a thousand other reasons of course). DeSoto lives !!! |
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Location: Layton, Utah | Whats up with collecting Vacuum Cleaners ? I guess there is a following in everything. Let him know he can have my old vacuum. |
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | 60 Imp - 2014-08-12 6:45 AM
Some cool road trip photos right there, Congrats on a great score. That is a very unusual looking car. I hope you realise that when you get it going you will attract the weirdest of the weirdo's!
Steve
 Yes, I have already realized that...the amount of questions at every stop was huge! And I can't believe how many people will hang out of a moving vehicle at 120 kph, and take pictures with their phones...  |
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | 60crossram - 2014-08-12 7:00 AM
It would be interesting to see from inside the quarter panels how the roof was attached to the body. Lead work ? It looks like it has kept away the rust from starting in those areas after all these years. Awesome car ! Doc is right, they should have used these fins on all the wagons. The way the bumper flows into the taillights is one of the main reasons I was attracted to the 57 DeSoto I bought years ago (among a thousand other reasons of course). DeSoto lives !!!
Yes, there is LOTS of lead work in the car. That may or may not make the restoration more difficult. There is rust...and I will have to do some fabricating of new panels for the back door bottom, and the inside sill. Also, the back side windows have leaked, as usual, and the sills have a lot of rust INSIDE the car.
There are benefits to having it based on a 4 door sedan...most of the trims inside and out are regular 4 door stuff, and any custom work appears to be fairly easy to replicate.
Anyone have any insight into why they would use a 4 door sedan to do a conversion, instead of using a station wagon? |
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Location: Chicago, IL | Having any type of restored emergency vehicle always involves the "idiot factor". Having a truly unique one, even more so.
People tend to think that they are still owned and maintained by whatever their livery represents.
Many of the coach builders found it easier to "start from scratch" with ambulances/hearses/emergency wagons than to begin with a station wagon. That way, floors could just be manufactured how they were needed for the end purpose instead of modifying a wagon's floor. The same can be said of producing the roof.
A good resource to check would be the Professional Car Society. Cars like your DeSoto are their specialty and they may be able to scare up some in service photos of your car. Several of them should have been at the Illinois Railway Museum show with their vintage ambulances. |
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| 60crossram - 2014-08-12 9:00 AM
It would be interesting to see from inside the quarter panels how the roof was attached to the body. Lead work ? It looks like it has kept away the rust from starting in those areas after all these years. Awesome car ! Doc is right, they should have used these fins on all the wagons. The way the bumper flows into the taillights is one of the main reasons I was attracted to the 57 DeSoto I bought years ago (among a thousand other reasons of course). DeSoto lives !!!
I just realized this car was not a conversion of a wagon, it's a conversion of a sedan. Or did you all realize this and I'm just a little slow on the uptick today?
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| miquelonbrad - 2014-08-12 10:19 AM
60crossram - 2014-08-12 7:00 AM
It would be interesting to see from inside the quarter panels how the roof was attached to the body. Lead work ? It looks like it has kept away the rust from starting in those areas after all these years. Awesome car ! Doc is right, they should have used these fins on all the wagons. The way the bumper flows into the taillights is one of the main reasons I was attracted to the 57 DeSoto I bought years ago (among a thousand other reasons of course). DeSoto lives !!!
Yes, there is LOTS of lead work in the car. That may or may not make the restoration more difficult. There is rust...and I will have to do some fabricating of new panels for the back door bottom, and the inside sill. Also, the back side windows have leaked, as usual, and the sills have a lot of rust INSIDE the car.
There are benefits to having it based on a 4 door sedan...most of the trims inside and out are regular 4 door stuff, and any custom work appears to be fairly easy to replicate.
Anyone have any insight into why they would use a 4 door sedan to do a conversion, instead of using a station wagon?
Sorry Brad, hadn't read through the entire post before I blurted out my observation about the car starting as a sedan. I believe starting with a sedan let the conversion company get away with less fabrication. Two questions about the rear door. Does the lower contour of the door follow the opening of the decklid? And, is the handle on the door a Chrysler part or a GM part? A lot of builders seemed to settle on using GM exterior handles from the 1952-54 period. I looked at a '68 Dodge ambulance that is local to me and it uses a '50s Chev outside door handle on the rear door. It too was built from a sedan.
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Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | ............
Ahhhh ...... HAAAAAA...................... now I see what you were up to when you said you were "on vacation " Brad
I got your email you sent me after you got back, will reply as soon as my ISP repairs it's email access
Very nice car there Brad, I like !!!
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | The rear door follow the same contour of the rear deck lid would have, but the lower panel itself (above the bumper) is fabricated by the company that converted it. And yes, the door handle appears to be of the Chevy verity, and the inner door latch mechanism, and the catch assembly look like the same ones used on my '58 Caddy!
Edited by miquelonbrad 2014-08-12 11:57 PM
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | cpd1212 - 2014-08-12 8:42 AM
Having any type of restored emergency vehicle always involves the "idiot factor". Having a truly unique one, even more so.
People tend to think that they are still owned and maintained by whatever their livery represents.
Many of the coach builders found it easier to "start from scratch" with ambulances/hearses/emergency wagons than to begin with a station wagon. That way, floors could just be manufactured how they were needed for the end purpose instead of modifying a wagon's floor. The same can be said of producing the roof.
A good resource to check would be the Professional Car Society. Cars like your DeSoto are their specialty and they may be able to scare up some in service photos of your car. Several of them should have been at the Illinois Railway Museum show with their vintage ambulances.
I did chat with several members at the Illinois show; funny thing is that one guy knew about the car already, as a friend had taken a cell phone shot, and sent it to him! |
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | Thanks! It will be a huge project, but one that I will lovingly do! I will have to slow down on the Chrysler, to divert some money and time to the Ambulance. But it's all in fun! |
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| miquelonbrad - 2014-08-12 11:54 PM
The rear door follow the same contour of the rear deck lid would have, but the lower panel itself (above the bumper) is fabricated by the company that converted it. And yes, the door handle appears to be of the Chevy verity, and the inner door latch mechanism, and the catch assembly look like the same ones used on my '58 Caddy! :laugh:
So, is the bottom of the rear door just the lower portion of the decklid inner panel? That would create an easy shortcut for the coachbuilder. So far I'm thinking it's not a Memphian, nor is it a National. I've fired off pictures to a coachbuilder friend who's an expert on these things and waiting for a final word from him. I'll let you know what he says. |
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Location: Alaska | Milquelonbrad, I have brought several cars to Alaska, in fact, in April I brought my 58 Plymouth and a 62 Skylark home. I have never been asked to show proof of ownership or even proof of insurance by the Canadian or US border agents. Maybe you just have a guilty look about you!!! If you tried to cross into Alaska we would have to confiscate your car!! |
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | kmccabe56 - 2014-08-13 5:19 AM
miquelonbrad - 2014-08-12 11:54 PM
The rear door follow the same contour of the rear deck lid would have, but the lower panel itself (above the bumper) is fabricated by the company that converted it. And yes, the door handle appears to be of the Chevy verity, and the inner door latch mechanism, and the catch assembly look like the same ones used on my '58 Caddy! :laugh:
So, is the bottom of the rear door just the lower portion of the decklid inner panel? That would create an easy shortcut for the coachbuilder. So far I'm thinking it's not a Memphian, nor is it a National. I've fired off pictures to a coachbuilder friend who's an expert on these things and waiting for a final word from him. I'll let you know what he says.
No, the door is a complete custom fabrication. I don't see any resemblance to any part of the factory deck lid or rear panels. |
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | 58coupe - 2014-08-13 8:06 AM
Milquelonbrad, I have brought several cars to Alaska, in fact, in April I brought my 58 Plymouth and a 62 Skylark home. I have never been asked to show proof of ownership or even proof of insurance by the Canadian or US border agents. Maybe you just have a guilty look about you!!! If you tried to cross into Alaska we would have to confiscate your car!!
But are you just bringing your cars through Canada, from the lower 48? The border issue has to do with exporting a car from the U.S., and then importing it into Canada. You cannot bring a car into Canada, from the U.S., and then try to register or insure it here without going through the export process. It is the same if you bought a car here, and then took it into the U.S.
And there has been some recent rule changes on the U.S. side. Now, you cannot export a vehicle from the U.S., unless you are a U.S. citizen or registered company. I finally got an explanation from a nice government lady, who broke down the lawyer lingo, and layed out the progress in plain language. Apparently, this recent rule change has nothing to do with foreigners buying and exporting vehicles, but has everything to do with the sellers not reporting the sales, and paying income tax! |
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| miquelonbrad - 2014-08-13 11:35 PM
58coupe - 2014-08-13 8:06 AM
Milquelonbrad, I have brought several cars to Alaska, in fact, in April I brought my 58 Plymouth and a 62 Skylark home. I have never been asked to show proof of ownership or even proof of insurance by the Canadian or US border agents. Maybe you just have a guilty look about you!!! If you tried to cross into Alaska we would have to confiscate your car!!
But are you just bringing your cars through Canada, from the lower 48? The border issue has to do with exporting a car from the U.S., and then importing it into Canada. You cannot bring a car into Canada, from the U.S., and then try to register or insure it here without going through the export process. It is the same if you bought a car here, and then took it into the U.S.
And there has been some recent rule changes on the U.S. side. Now, you cannot export a vehicle from the U.S., unless you are a U.S. citizen or registered company. I finally got an explanation from a nice government lady, who broke down the lawyer lingo, and layed out the progress in plain language. Apparently, this recent rule change has nothing to do with foreigners buying and exporting vehicles, but has everything to do with the sellers not reporting the sales, and paying income tax!
So how did you finally get US Customs to let you and the car go? That IS new, and that's going to be a colossal PITA !
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Location: Alaska | You are right , I was "just passing through" Canada. Sorry to hear of such a hassle. Maybe it is sales tax they are worried about? |
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Location: The Bat Cave, Fairborn, OH | miquelonbrad - 2014-08-11 11:56 AM BY the way...how can Wisconsinites eat SOOOOO much cheese?! Don't knock it until you've tried it. Next thing I know you'll be slamming our bratwurst and God's Own Football Team (Green Bay Packers) too. Get away with ye, Johnny Foreigner!
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | HAHAHAHAHAA!!
I have visited Wisconsin many times, and I have enjoyed it each and every time.
There is a little store/gas station on Route 14, that I pass through on my way to my friend's place in Illinois. When you go inside, the walls are lined with Packers jerseys and memorabilia! So, once when I was buying gas, I said to the clerk "What's all this green sh*t all over the walls?" She stared at me, lowering her glasses to the end of her nose, and said "You DO know where you are, don't you?" I laughed like an SOB, and told her where I was from. |
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | 58coupe - 2014-08-14 7:15 AM
You are right , I was "just passing through" Canada. Sorry to hear of such a hassle. Maybe it is sales tax they are worried about?
The explanation I finally got, is that it has nothing to do with someone from another country buying and exporting a car, but had everything to do with the seller paying the taxes due to the U.S. Government. Until now, you could sell a "private" automobile to whomever you liked, and that person could export the car out of the U.S., and that was that. And you could do it with absolutely no link to whom sold you the car. But, with no papertrail linking the automobile to the seller, the seller could get away with not paying any taxes on the sale. And for a normal citizen selling a car or two a year, that wouldn't be an issue. It's the multitude of curbers passing thousands of cars through a year this way, that is the issue. |
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | So how did you finally get US Customs to let you and the car go? That IS new, and that's going to be a colossal PITA !
The agent said that not all the procedures have been ironed out, and he made an exemption, allowing my car through. But he warned me that in a few months, he wouldn't be able to do this...  |
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Location: USA - KY | 
Congratulations! That is one great old car!
I really liked this photo..."The Drumheller DeSoto". Too cool!
Drumheller is known as one of the best places in the world to find dinosaur bones. Here is one four wheeled dinosaur that is an equally great find, IMHO!
Edited by FIN ME 2014-08-16 11:25 AM
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | I was stopped at the "brake check" point, just before descending the long, steep hill down into Drumheller. There is a runaway lane at the bottom of the hill, and I can see that some people have used it!! |
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | So, I send a letter and a cheque to Chrysler Historical. And after the letter being returned once, because the address wasn't PERFECT (Grrr!!!) I received a copy of my build card, and a letter:
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Location: The Mile High City | Hmmm! I wondered if the Memphis Coach Company ordered direct from the factory or through a dealership (Memphis TN, Automobile Sales Co. Inc.) or maybe the coach builder and the dealership are one-in-the-same? If they did order direct from the factory, it is odd they would order a yellow and charcoal car - so it makes me think they just bought a car off the lot. Good stuff! |
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Location: New Castle PA | Thanks, Brad, for posting this! I don't see the crankcase air vent on the pics of your engine, though, so perhaps it was changed over the years. It's an unusual option, so when I saw it on the letter, I was excited. This would be a small hose running from the cap on the oil fill tube to the side of the air cleaner, like today's PCV valve, almost. You had better watch out, though. Now that you posted the "key number", someone might get one made and come steal that car (LOL)! |
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | HAHA!! Well, I didn't get keys with it, so I'll have to either have the locks re-keyed, or just change the cylinders out. Plus it would have to be driveable first... LOL!
I'll have a look at that, next time I go down to the shop. Maybe the air cleaner has the port.
Edited by miquelonbrad 2015-04-28 9:29 AM
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Location: Parts Unknown | My DeSoto was equipped with the crankcase vent. On the wedge engines, it
shows up as a tight-fitting cap on the passenger side oil fill port on the valve cover.
The cap has a 3/4" (?) downdraft tube that works it's way down to the bottom of
the oil pan and ends with a funky end cut that looks as if it were cut off square
and then had half of one side cut off at a 45º angle. There is a strap welded to
the tube about half way down with a single bolt hole. This aligns with a transmission-
to-engine bolt to hold the whole thing rigidly in place.
It has been so long since I had a Hemi that I am forgetting how the pre-wedge
cars did it, but I do remember a tube running along the top and side of the bell
housing. Just can't remember how it accesses the center cover.
But neither tied in with the air cleaner. They were a straight crank case-to-street
type of vent. Both were all steel and invloved no rubber hose.
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Location: New Castle PA | This is the tube I meant -- connecting the oil fill cap with the air cleaner. Absolutely stock, but uncommon. I don't know if it was CA only or what...
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Location: So. Cal | Yes, that is a California requirement. The 277 in my '56 Plymouth had the same thing. My copper '57 Chrysler is also a CA car, but I don't have the original air cleaner & cap for it.
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Location: Parts Unknown | I remember that crankcase-to-intake return being a California thing
in the late 60's and early 70's and it was not a factory build, but a
retrofit deal. You could buy a kit at any auto parts store, or the corner
service station (remember those ?) did them all day long. As it
seemed quite "the buzz" at the time, I have always assumed it was
something new, due to the increasing interest in the environment at
the time, but I wasn't into cars and car ownership just yet, so I wasn't
really tracking the legality and motivation aspect.
So, were the car mfr's actually building cars this way 10+ years before
the EPA and other govt. reg agencies began mandating stuff like this ?
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Location: Houston | Man, a car built 2 days after Christmas? Everyone must have been hungover and fat. You better keep an eye on it for things like poor panel fit and loose connecting rods and dull paint. |
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Location: New Castle PA | Doc, I'm a bit too young and a bit too far east to know what California required and when, BUT given that certain cars have the code on the build card (words pasted below) under Crankcase Air Vent I'd say it was certainly a factory build instead of a retrofit.
FOAM CUSH. FRONT
FOAM CUSH. REAR
BUMPER GUARDS
CARPETS
CLOCK ELECTRIC
CRASH PAD
DEFROSTER-REAR WIN
DUAL EXHAUST
ENG. PWR. PACK
LIGHT - BACK-UP
LIGHT - GLOVE BOX MAP
LIGHT - HAND BRAKE
MIRROR - PRISMATIC
MIRROR - LEFT - OUT
MIRROR - RIGHT - OUT
MIRROR - VANITY
POWER SEATS
POWER WIN.LIFT
RADIO - TOWN COUNTRY
RADIO - PUSHBUTTON
REAR SEAT SPEAKER
SOLEX GLASS
STEERING WHEEL
STONE SHIELDS
UNDERCOATING
WHEEL COVERS
JIFFY JET
W/SHIELD WPR VAR SPEED
GEN - 40 AMP H.D.
GEN - 50 AMP H.D.
TRIAD HORN
1 - ARM REST
3 TINTED REAR WINDOW
CLOCK - STRG WHEEL
CRANKCASE AIR VENT
1 CIGAR LIGHT
1 - LIGHT ASH TRAY
X - XXXXXXXX
LIGHT 1 TRUNK
2 DOME
ROOF MOLDING
1 SUNVISOR PLASTIC
2 DUAL HEADLAMPS
TIRES
SWEEP 1 MLDG
2 COLOR
BATTERY
NEW CAR SERVICE
XXXXXXXXXX - 1
XXXXXXXXXX - 2
LOW COMPRESSION
ENGINE - 8 CYL
LOCK GAS CAP -1
XXXXXXX -2 BOTH 3
TIRE WHITE WALL - 1
XXXXXXXXX - 2 BOTH 3
HEAVY DUTY SPRINGS
HVY DUTY SHOCKS
POWER
PLANT
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Location: Parts Unknown | Ed, ... I don't question that DeSoto put crankcase vents on the Hemi's.
I just don't think they "vented" them anywhere but to the pavement. The
air cleaner return is more likely a latter day California attempt at smog control.
Have you ever seen one that dumps to the street ? I am having a memory
now of a Hemi with a crankcase vent attaching to the valley cover and running
down over the bell housing. Can't remember if it was a 392 or DeSoto app
though ....
I can take a pic of my wedge version if it interests anyone. It was a fairly
unusual option. Not very purposeful then. Not very sexy today .... not like
dual carbs or Mirrormatic or that kind of "bling" option.
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Location: New Castle PA | Every '57 DeSoto hemi has the tube that dumps to the street. I just can't picture in my mind where the top end of that tube is -- it doesn't go into the valve cover. I'll have to look at one of my cars. Most '57 DeSotos have nothing under "Crankcase Air Vent" on the build card. I have pics of several engines with the identical valve cover-to-oil fill cap setup, but what I don't have is a build card shat shows the code there AND a picture of THAT car's engine with the hose setup. |
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Location: Montreal, Canada | Doctor DeSoto - 2015-04-30 12:22 AM
Ed, ... I don't question that DeSoto put crankcase vents on the Hemi's.
I just don't think they "vented" them anywhere but to the pavement. The
air cleaner return is more likely a latter day California attempt at smog control.
Have you ever seen one that dumps to the street ? I am having a memory
now of a Hemi with a crankcase vent attaching to the valley cover and running
down over the bell housing. Can't remember if it was a 392 or DeSoto app
though ....
I can take a pic of my wedge version if it interests anyone. It was a fairly
unusual option. Not very purposeful then. Not very sexy today .... not like
dual carbs or Mirrormatic or that kind of "bling" option.
The vent that dumps to the street is standard on every single poly V8 313-318. They probably were on 301 and 303 also.
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Location: So. Cal | Doc, I honestly don't know why this is so hard for you to believe. Smog control has always been placed as the responsibility of the manufacturers, not on the general public. The general public would never intentionally purchase smog equipment now or then.
Edited by Powerflite 2015-04-30 11:21 AM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | I really doubt that the picture above is oem '57??!! |
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Location: Parts Unknown | 57desoto - 2015-05-01 3:54 AM
Every '57 DeSoto hemi has the tube that dumps to the street. I just can't picture in my mind where the top end of that tube is -- it doesn't go into the valve cover. I'll have to look at one of my cars. Most '57 DeSotos have nothing under "Crankcase Air Vent" on the build card. I have pics of several engines with the identical valve cover-to-oil fill cap setup, but what I don't have is a build card shat shows the code there AND a picture of THAT car's engine with the hose setup.
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I am not seeing a photo of a DeSoto Hemi with a valve cover-to-oil fill cap. What I see is the
California smog deal with the oil fill cap-to-air cleaner set up.
Nathan, et al; I am just throwing this out for discussion, ... as I remember those days, albeit
foggy, and that crankcase-to-intake return was a BIG retrofit deal in California in the late 60's
and early 70's. So much so, that I suspect it was a very new thing and "making headlines". I
also suspect that prior to the late 60's, no one gave two shats about about the environment like
they would just a few short years later. Almost in direct parallel, the anti-war movement and
environmental awareness became BIG issues in the media and public conscience.
As such, I am suspicious that this oil fill cap-to-intake measure was a 1950's factory application.
As Ed mentioned, like 57, the 58 DeSotos almost never have the Crankcase Air Vent box marked,
but when they do, they will have the passenger side oil fill cap replaced with the down draft tube
as is shown in the pic by Soiuz. Conversely, 99.9% of 58 DeSotos have a standard oil fill cap on
both sides of the engine. Seems a pretty strong link that this is how Mopar implemented a crank
case air vent.
Playing skeptic to my own theory, why would all Plymouth engines have the down draft tube and
it be a rarely seen optional item on DeSoto ??? Maybe the polys didn't have adequate air flow for
oil movement ??? I don't know. What I do know is that air cleaner attachment does not look like
factory and it defies historical logic that any car mfr. was going to that added expense in such an
aftermarket looking way ten years before governments began to really mobilize to force them to
do so.
This is an interesting subject, and I am not trying to be as much argumentative as I am trying to
flush out how this actually went down. Surely there must be some ephemera out there detailing
when California began requiring this crank case-to-intake return and how/when the car mfr's. dealt
with it.
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1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!
