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1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-04-30 10:19 PM (#477045 - in reply to #477004)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!


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57desoto - 2015-04-30 6:54 AM

Every '57 DeSoto hemi has the tube that dumps to the street. I just can't picture in my mind where the top end of that tube is -- it doesn't go into the valve cover. I'll have to look at one of my cars. Most '57 DeSotos have nothing under "Crankcase Air Vent" on the build card. I have pics of several engines with the identical valve cover-to-oil fill cap setup, but what I don't have is a build card shat shows the code there AND a picture of THAT car's engine with the hose setup.


As I recall, Dodge and Chrysler hemi and poly engine tubes were attached to the valley pan and dumped to the street. At least any I ever saw.

Greg
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GregCon
Posted 2015-04-30 10:36 PM (#477046 - in reply to #477045)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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Yes, that is where they attached. But 'dumped' might be a bit harsh of a term. Let's not forget they were called downdraft tubes, which meant that they operated on the principle that the as the vehicle moved through the air it would create a low pressure area at the end of the tube (i.e. a 'draft') that 'sucked' the vapors out.

Yet another example of how today's cars are so much less 'green' than cars of old. A modern car uses all sorts of gizmo's (computers, catalytic converters, air pumps, etc.) all of which are dependent of fossil fuels and precious metals for their functioning. The downdraft tube used natural energy sources - the wind - for its power. Now that i think about it I believe they did away with the downdraft tube right around the same time they took the lead out of paints and ended the Jim Crow laws.....
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Chrycoman
Posted 2015-05-01 12:00 AM (#477050 - in reply to #452446)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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The first PCV systems were introduced in 1961. I believe they became mandatory in California for the 1962 model year. But no anti-pollution devices of any kind were offered by car manufacturers in the 1950's.

On the crankcase breather system, the oil cap was the air intake and it had a filter. The outlet on the flathead sixes did not have a filter, but the V8 engines could be had with one. The filter was placed on the valve cover with the pipe heading down to ground for the air exiting the crankcase. So, that is what this DeSoto has - the optional ventilator outlet air cleaner.

As for those cars with their "original" or "OEM" oil filler caps connected to the air cleaner by a hose - bad news. They were not available in the 1950's. Any vehicle that has one had it added years after the car was built. They first appeared on Mopar vehicles in 1968. Although anti-pollution devices may be the responsibility of manufacturers, the fact that cars exist where owners have installed equipment on older vehicles proves car owners will purchase and add anti-pollution devices. Just as they will, and have, add various bits and pieces from other makes of cars to their own - customizing I believe they call it in extreme cases.


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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2015-05-01 12:31 AM (#477052 - in reply to #477050)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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Location: Parts Unknown
Thanks for the feedback, Bill. That is how I remember it as a casual observer and
it just makes sense if you know the history of the environmental movement and how
it was applied to the automotive scene. We moved out of California in 1966, but went
back often enough to notice this emissions thing going on, where it wasn't even on the
radar in Washington. Any time I have seen these intake return systems on pre-60 cars,
it always looks pretty home made or "bolt on". Not integrated like the factory would do
it.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-05-01 12:38 AM (#477053 - in reply to #477050)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!


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Location: Ontario, Canada
Chrycoman - 2015-05-01 12:00 AM


But no anti-pollution devices of any kind were offered by car manufacturers in the 1950's. So, that is what this DeSoto has - the optional ventilator outlet air cleaner.

As for those cars with their "original" or "OEM" oil filler caps connected to the air cleaner by a hose - bad news.
(Quote)

Kinda what I was always told!!

Greg


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miquelonbrad
Posted 2015-05-01 9:15 AM (#477065 - in reply to #452446)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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Well, I looked at my car yesterday, and... there is no sign of any "pollution" devices or PCV system installed.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2015-05-01 1:28 PM (#477080 - in reply to #477065)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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Location: Parts Unknown
A California member can likely get you set up with one easy enough !
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57desoto
Posted 2015-05-01 9:18 PM (#477114 - in reply to #452446)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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I genuinely respect everyone's opinions, but at the end of the day, that's all any of us have -- opinions. I fail to understand why a crankcase air vent cleaner is optional equipment (page F-10, Standard and Optional Equipment, 1957 DeSotos) for all 1957 DeSoto models when every car has that downdraft tube. Bill, can you further explain, please, what you mean by "The filter was placed on the valve cover with the pipe heading down to ground for the air exiting the crankcase. So, that is what this DeSoto has - the optional ventilator outlet air cleaner." I have never seen any difference in any downdraft tube on any 1957 DeSoto. The only difference I've seen is that oil cap to air cleaner hose, and that's why I made (what may be an incorrect) assumption that the OPTIONAL Crankcase Air Vent IS that cap-to-cleaner hose. The addition of a filter only to the standard downdraft tube can't be what makes this "optional equipment". Don't mean to beat a horse here -- just trying to understand things. Thanks for your patience.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2015-05-01 9:52 PM (#477117 - in reply to #477114)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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Location: Parts Unknown
Ed, ... you jogged my memory about something ...

I remember coming across a very occasional Hemi car with an odd filter "thingie"
on the pavement end of the tube. The filter inside was nothing more than the usual
course metal shavings pad like they stuffed in the normal oil fill cap breathers.

Does this ring any bells for you ?

Could this be our mystery "optional" filter ?
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Chrycoman
Posted 2015-05-01 11:50 PM (#477129 - in reply to #452446)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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Location: Vancouver, BC

The downdraft tube was used on all cars after the introduction of crankcase ventilation in the 1920's until replaced by the PCV valve. It's not the tube that is optional, it is the outlet air cleaner.

The parts book I have leads one to believe it is on the valve cover with the downdraft tube leading out of it. The air cleaner appears to be a small donut with a tube coming out of the centre instead of having a hole. As there is no specific illustration of an outlet air cleaner in the parts book, its location and description is pretty much open to discussion. Also, there are different models for different makes / engines - one for export Plymouth, Dodge and DeSoto flathead sixes (1215669), and US-built Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler (except New Yorker) V8 models with automatic transmission (1737814). No air cleaner was available for Plymouth V8s, Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler Windsor/Saratoga V8 engines with manual transmissions, all Chrysler New Yorkers and all Imperials as well as domestic market flathead sixes.

So, it appears the version on DeSotos could on the bottom of the downdraft tube, which would mean Dodge V8 and Chrysler Windsor / Saratoga models with automatic transmissions are also on the bottom of the tube.

Should point out my 1957 parts book is the early Canadian edition (December 1956), so things may have changed over the last part of the 1957 model year.
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57desoto
Posted 2015-05-02 6:28 AM (#477145 - in reply to #452446)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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Thanks, Bill and Doc. I'll confess that I've never seen anything different on the outlet end of any '57 DeSoto downdraft tube, but neither have I crawled under every car to examine that spot! If you've seen them, Doc, then I'd say that IS the answer. The only "clarification" to Bill's note is that at least for hemi DeSotos the upper end of that tube comes from the valley cover, as Greg noted above (and not from the valve cover). Good discussion!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2015-05-03 12:30 AM (#477199 - in reply to #477145)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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Location: Parts Unknown
This whole discussion has my brain reeling with ancient thoughts, notes, and
memories. I need to crawl under my car and look at that tube again and check
the paperwork for where I verified this must be the little filter they have on the
option list. It has been 20 years and I just cannot remember !
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CustomRoyal
Posted 2015-05-03 8:54 AM (#477233 - in reply to #477199)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!


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Desoto dealer info for ordering one of these. I don't have '57.

Edited by CustomRoyal 2015-05-03 9:02 AM




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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2015-05-03 2:01 PM (#477244 - in reply to #477233)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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Location: Parts Unknown
Interesting to note that this listing is for the 1958 models, and that only
Firedome and Fireflite are offered, yet I have never seen either of these
models done as ambulance/hearse type conversions, only Firesweeps !

I wonder how many of these they sold ?
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CustomRoyal
Posted 2015-05-03 4:53 PM (#477256 - in reply to #477244)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!


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I have firesweep too. They mention stretch limos
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christine-lover
Posted 2015-05-03 6:54 PM (#477265 - in reply to #477199)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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Doctor DeSoto - 2015-05-03 12:30 AM

This whole discussion has my brain reeling with ancient thoughts, notes, and
memories. I need to crawl under my car and look at that tube again and check
the paperwork for where I verified this must be the little filter they have on the
option list. It has been 20 years and I just cannot remember !


This is a photo of a 1958 B block with a filter on the road draft tube.



(image.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2015-05-03 9:24 PM (#477277 - in reply to #477265)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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It is hard for me to believe that the road draft tube filter is what that option is talking about. Every road draft tube I have for the Chrysler or Imperial hemi motors have had a filter on it.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2015-05-03 9:33 PM (#477279 - in reply to #477277)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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Location: Parts Unknown
Is it possible that the downdraft filter was standard equipment on the top end cars ?

I have no experience with the ephemera for these cars and I really have not had too
many in my shop getting worked on to know what is unusual.
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2017-04-18 10:12 PM (#538338 - in reply to #452446)
Subject: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada
I just thought I'd post a few pics, since I now have decent lighting in the shop!





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57desoto
Posted 2017-04-19 5:45 AM (#538357 - in reply to #452446)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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Location: New Castle PA
Fantastic car!!!
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moparsteve
Posted 2017-04-19 8:01 AM (#538363 - in reply to #452446)
Subject: RE: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!


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quite a find! will you ever get around to get it running?
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meatwagon
Posted 2017-04-19 9:42 PM (#538426 - in reply to #452446)
Subject: RE: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!


Member

Posts: 17

Location: Humboldt Kansas
I looked through the pages and forgive me if I missed it, but who did the conversion? I recently picked up a 58 Chrysler hearse that also started life as a 4 door sedan. Also, who did you send the letter to, to receive that information from Chrysler?



(IMG_20170409_213045-888x1421-666x1066.jpg)



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miquelonbrad
Posted 2017-04-20 1:25 AM (#538439 - in reply to #452446)
Subject: Re: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada
Well, I have no concrete evidence to prove who converted my car, but we have narrowed it down...most likely Weller. But I seem to get many different opinions.

You can send away to Chrysler Historical Services for the info, IF they have '58 Chrysler records. There are some gaps in their records. I'm not sure if it is still listed as Chrysler Historical...might be FCA Historical now...
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2017-04-20 1:27 AM (#538440 - in reply to #538363)
Subject: RE: 1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada!



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moparsteve - 2017-04-19 6:01 AM

quite a find! will you ever get around to get it running?


Soon, soon. I need to finish one of the '57 Chryslers I have in a million pieces first...
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