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1957 DeSoto Civil Defense Ambulance comes to Canada! Jump to page : 1 2 Now viewing page 2 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
Forward Look NON-Technical Discussions -> 1955-1961 Forward Look MoPar General Discussion | Message format |
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | 57desoto - 2015-04-30 6:54 AM Every '57 DeSoto hemi has the tube that dumps to the street. I just can't picture in my mind where the top end of that tube is -- it doesn't go into the valve cover. I'll have to look at one of my cars. Most '57 DeSotos have nothing under "Crankcase Air Vent" on the build card. I have pics of several engines with the identical valve cover-to-oil fill cap setup, but what I don't have is a build card shat shows the code there AND a picture of THAT car's engine with the hose setup. As I recall, Dodge and Chrysler hemi and poly engine tubes were attached to the valley pan and dumped to the street. At least any I ever saw. Greg | ||
GregCon |
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Expert Posts: 2524 Location: Houston | Yes, that is where they attached. But 'dumped' might be a bit harsh of a term. Let's not forget they were called downdraft tubes, which meant that they operated on the principle that the as the vehicle moved through the air it would create a low pressure area at the end of the tube (i.e. a 'draft') that 'sucked' the vapors out. Yet another example of how today's cars are so much less 'green' than cars of old. A modern car uses all sorts of gizmo's (computers, catalytic converters, air pumps, etc.) all of which are dependent of fossil fuels and precious metals for their functioning. The downdraft tube used natural energy sources - the wind - for its power. Now that i think about it I believe they did away with the downdraft tube right around the same time they took the lead out of paints and ended the Jim Crow laws..... | ||
Chrycoman |
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Expert Posts: 1819 Location: Vancouver, BC | The first PCV systems were introduced in 1961. I believe they became mandatory in California for the 1962 model year. But no anti-pollution devices of any kind were offered by car manufacturers in the 1950's. On the crankcase breather system, the oil cap was the air intake and it had a filter. The outlet on the flathead sixes did not have a filter, but the V8 engines could be had with one. The filter was placed on the valve cover with the pipe heading down to ground for the air exiting the crankcase. So, that is what this DeSoto has - the optional ventilator outlet air cleaner. As for those cars with their "original" or "OEM" oil filler caps connected to the air cleaner by a hose - bad news. They were not available in the 1950's. Any vehicle that has one had it added years after the car was built. They first appeared on Mopar vehicles in 1968. Although anti-pollution devices may be the responsibility of manufacturers, the fact that cars exist where owners have installed equipment on older vehicles proves car owners will purchase and add anti-pollution devices. Just as they will, and have, add various bits and pieces from other makes of cars to their own - customizing I believe they call it in extreme cases. | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Thanks for the feedback, Bill. That is how I remember it as a casual observer and it just makes sense if you know the history of the environmental movement and how it was applied to the automotive scene. We moved out of California in 1966, but went back often enough to notice this emissions thing going on, where it wasn't even on the radar in Washington. Any time I have seen these intake return systems on pre-60 cars, it always looks pretty home made or "bolt on". Not integrated like the factory would do it. | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Chrycoman - 2015-05-01 12:00 AM But no anti-pollution devices of any kind were offered by car manufacturers in the 1950's. So, that is what this DeSoto has - the optional ventilator outlet air cleaner. As for those cars with their "original" or "OEM" oil filler caps connected to the air cleaner by a hose - bad news. (Quote) Kinda what I was always told!! Greg | ||
miquelonbrad |
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Expert Posts: 1737 Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | Well, I looked at my car yesterday, and... there is no sign of any "pollution" devices or PCV system installed. | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | A California member can likely get you set up with one easy enough ! | ||
57desoto |
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Expert Posts: 1488 Location: New Castle PA | I genuinely respect everyone's opinions, but at the end of the day, that's all any of us have -- opinions. I fail to understand why a crankcase air vent cleaner is optional equipment (page F-10, Standard and Optional Equipment, 1957 DeSotos) for all 1957 DeSoto models when every car has that downdraft tube. Bill, can you further explain, please, what you mean by "The filter was placed on the valve cover with the pipe heading down to ground for the air exiting the crankcase. So, that is what this DeSoto has - the optional ventilator outlet air cleaner." I have never seen any difference in any downdraft tube on any 1957 DeSoto. The only difference I've seen is that oil cap to air cleaner hose, and that's why I made (what may be an incorrect) assumption that the OPTIONAL Crankcase Air Vent IS that cap-to-cleaner hose. The addition of a filter only to the standard downdraft tube can't be what makes this "optional equipment". Don't mean to beat a horse here -- just trying to understand things. Thanks for your patience. | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Ed, ... you jogged my memory about something ... I remember coming across a very occasional Hemi car with an odd filter "thingie" on the pavement end of the tube. The filter inside was nothing more than the usual course metal shavings pad like they stuffed in the normal oil fill cap breathers. Does this ring any bells for you ? Could this be our mystery "optional" filter ? | ||
Chrycoman |
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Expert Posts: 1819 Location: Vancouver, BC | The downdraft tube was used on all cars after the introduction of crankcase ventilation in the 1920's until replaced by the PCV valve. It's not the tube that is optional, it is the outlet air cleaner. The parts book I have leads one to believe it is on the valve cover with the downdraft tube leading out of it. The air cleaner appears to be a small donut with a tube coming out of the centre instead of having a hole. As there is no specific illustration of an outlet air cleaner in the parts book, its location and description is pretty much open to discussion. Also, there are different models for different makes / engines - one for export Plymouth, Dodge and DeSoto flathead sixes (1215669), and US-built Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler (except New Yorker) V8 models with automatic transmission (1737814). No air cleaner was available for Plymouth V8s, Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler Windsor/Saratoga V8 engines with manual transmissions, all Chrysler New Yorkers and all Imperials as well as domestic market flathead sixes. So, it appears the version on DeSotos could on the bottom of the downdraft tube, which would mean Dodge V8 and Chrysler Windsor / Saratoga models with automatic transmissions are also on the bottom of the tube. Should point out my 1957 parts book is the early Canadian edition (December 1956), so things may have changed over the last part of the 1957 model year. | ||
57desoto |
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Expert Posts: 1488 Location: New Castle PA | Thanks, Bill and Doc. I'll confess that I've never seen anything different on the outlet end of any '57 DeSoto downdraft tube, but neither have I crawled under every car to examine that spot! If you've seen them, Doc, then I'd say that IS the answer. The only "clarification" to Bill's note is that at least for hemi DeSotos the upper end of that tube comes from the valley cover, as Greg noted above (and not from the valve cover). Good discussion! | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | This whole discussion has my brain reeling with ancient thoughts, notes, and memories. I need to crawl under my car and look at that tube again and check the paperwork for where I verified this must be the little filter they have on the option list. It has been 20 years and I just cannot remember ! | ||
CustomRoyal |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 322 | Desoto dealer info for ordering one of these. I don't have '57. Edited by CustomRoyal 2015-05-03 9:02 AM (100_4011 (800x600).jpg) (100_4014 (800x600).jpg) Attachments ---------------- 100_4011 (800x600).jpg (351KB - 154 downloads) 100_4014 (800x600).jpg (365KB - 158 downloads) | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Interesting to note that this listing is for the 1958 models, and that only Firedome and Fireflite are offered, yet I have never seen either of these models done as ambulance/hearse type conversions, only Firesweeps ! I wonder how many of these they sold ? | ||
CustomRoyal |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 322 | I have firesweep too. They mention stretch limos | ||
christine-lover |
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Expert Posts: 2996 Location: Sept. 1958 | Doctor DeSoto - 2015-05-03 12:30 AM This whole discussion has my brain reeling with ancient thoughts, notes, and memories. I need to crawl under my car and look at that tube again and check the paperwork for where I verified this must be the little filter they have on the option list. It has been 20 years and I just cannot remember ! This is a photo of a 1958 B block with a filter on the road draft tube. (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (190KB - 156 downloads) | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9604 Location: So. Cal | It is hard for me to believe that the road draft tube filter is what that option is talking about. Every road draft tube I have for the Chrysler or Imperial hemi motors have had a filter on it. | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Is it possible that the downdraft filter was standard equipment on the top end cars ? I have no experience with the ephemera for these cars and I really have not had too many in my shop getting worked on to know what is unusual. | ||
miquelonbrad |
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Expert Posts: 1737 Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | I just thought I'd post a few pics, since I now have decent lighting in the shop! (IMG_1509sm.jpg) (IMG_1510sm.jpg) (IMG_1515sm.jpg) Attachments ---------------- IMG_1509sm.jpg (178KB - 119 downloads) IMG_1510sm.jpg (181KB - 114 downloads) IMG_1515sm.jpg (199KB - 116 downloads) | ||
57desoto |
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Expert Posts: 1488 Location: New Castle PA | Fantastic car!!! | ||
moparsteve |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1155 Location: somerville mass | quite a find! will you ever get around to get it running? | ||
meatwagon |
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Member Posts: 17 Location: Humboldt Kansas | I looked through the pages and forgive me if I missed it, but who did the conversion? I recently picked up a 58 Chrysler hearse that also started life as a 4 door sedan. Also, who did you send the letter to, to receive that information from Chrysler? (IMG_20170409_213045-888x1421-666x1066.jpg) Attachments ---------------- IMG_20170409_213045-888x1421-666x1066.jpg (402KB - 110 downloads) | ||
miquelonbrad |
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Expert Posts: 1737 Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | Well, I have no concrete evidence to prove who converted my car, but we have narrowed it down...most likely Weller. But I seem to get many different opinions. You can send away to Chrysler Historical Services for the info, IF they have '58 Chrysler records. There are some gaps in their records. I'm not sure if it is still listed as Chrysler Historical...might be FCA Historical now... | ||
miquelonbrad |
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Expert Posts: 1737 Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | moparsteve - 2017-04-19 6:01 AM quite a find! will you ever get around to get it running? Soon, soon. I need to finish one of the '57 Chryslers I have in a million pieces first... | ||
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