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Alternator Bracket
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Myke
Posted 2014-04-29 7:44 PM (#438523)
Subject: Alternator Bracket



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Location: Tulare Ca
Hey All! ive recently decided that going with the alternator is the mose feasable option as my plymouth is gonna be a driver. So After looking and doing some research i see its not to difficult. how ever i have a few questions.

First off is, i have a stock poly 318. as well as a non stock ammeter under my dash, is there any way for me to use the gm one wire and still have the ammeter (im not too concerned with the dash light).

Secondly, would this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-9456/overview/make/dodge Backet work. and

Lastly If it Will Not work does anybody have a template for a bracket that i can use?

Thanks!! Mike

Edited by Myke 2014-04-29 7:46 PM
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ttotired
Posted 2014-04-29 7:59 PM (#438527 - in reply to #438523)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket



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Myke, you can run your alternator through your amp meter (providing it has a higher amp reading than thoe max output from your alternator).

Here is the better advice, Throw the fire starter (amp meter) away and install a volt meter.

A volt meter is far more pertinant to what you need to know (voltage condition in the car) than an amp meter (how much current is going in or leaving the battery)

If there is nothing much happening (battery is charged ect) your amp meter will basically sit at 0 or just to one side.

A voltmeter is a much better indication of whats going on and is much safer in the wiring end of things.

As for your bracket, I cut the generator mount to put the alternator in the same place as the genny was.

I think (if the linked bracket) is the one for a 62 poly, that they dont fit because of the cast part on the exhaust manifold getting in the way





(Alternator 001s.JPG)



(Alternator 004s.JPG)



(Alternator 006s.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments Alternator 001s.JPG (103KB - 229 downloads)
Attachments Alternator 004s.JPG (95KB - 251 downloads)
Attachments Alternator 006s.JPG (94KB - 224 downloads)
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rushpowersystems
Posted 2014-04-29 8:16 PM (#438531 - in reply to #438523)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket


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Amp meters tell you when you have a problem, volt meters tell you when a problem is developing.

One wire alternators are for trailer queens, not for people who want to drive the vehicle, how hard is it to run a second wire anyway. And if you re going from a generator to an alternator you already have the wires you need, just need to make some minor changes.

As I have free time I am working on a bolt on conversion bracket to mount a GM CS based alternator in the factory generator location.
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rushpowersystems
Posted 2014-04-29 8:18 PM (#438532 - in reply to #438523)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket


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Hum, I sense a terrible Bosch vs. really good GM CS debate coming on.
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jimntempe
Posted 2014-04-29 9:03 PM (#438539 - in reply to #438523)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket



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When I replaced my gen with alt this was the bracket I used. Not as pretty as totireds but it works fine.

http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=63

I intended to use a two-wire alt but they (different company then I got the bracket from) shipped a one wire by mistake so that's what I wound up using along with a voltmeter. The system works perfectly, I just don't have a "gen" light.
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Myke
Posted 2014-05-03 2:14 PM (#439108 - in reply to #438523)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket



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that one seems like its more my price range Jimntempe. Thanks! Also, so then a Three Wire Alternator Would Be able to Drop right into My Existing Wire set up or will i Need a different regulator Or....?



Edited by Myke 2014-05-03 2:14 PM
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rushpowersystems
Posted 2014-05-03 7:12 PM (#439145 - in reply to #439108)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket


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You will need to make some wiring changes, simple splices. If you are using the GM alternator you need to supply it with a excite wire or turn on wire. You take the key on wire to the existing regulator and splice it with the field wire going to the generator, although I would use a relay to supply turn on to keep it as factory.

 

As for bracket, same thing only $41.46 with free shipping:

 http://high-amp.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_8&products_id=178

If you need the alternator, we can supply you with one to fit your exact needs, in a package deal along with the relay.

We are closed now, PM or email Darren@rushps.com if you are interested. 

 

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ttotired
Posted 2014-05-03 7:28 PM (#439149 - in reply to #438523)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket



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It wont drop right un, the regulators are different.

Provided the alternator max currunt is not to high (my one is a 55 amp bosch), you can use the generators wiring to run your alternator,

The connections around the regulator have to be changed, but changed in what way, depends on what type (style) of alternator you get.

I wont debate brands of alternators, but I will say an internally regulated alternator is a neater fit and generally more available.

The bosch unit I have used was chosen for a few reasons, the first was the twin bottom leg mount (makes the bracket mod a bit more forgiving), the second was that (in Australia), this exact style (model) alternator was orriginal fitment a lot of mopars for years and was also the one that was used to replace the chrysler bird cage alternators that (here) were mostly found on the early valiants.
And thirdly, bosch parts here are very easy to get hold of, delco also are not that hard, but (to me) delco = chev and if I was doing a chev, then I would put a delco on it.

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Raza159
Posted 2014-10-15 12:28 PM (#459309 - in reply to #438523)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket


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Yes GJM-8201A is the correct 1960 generator. Believe it is 35 amp. That is the std and most common generator. If you have a/c, you may have a different model.

Edited by Raza159 2014-10-15 12:30 PM
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jimntempe
Posted 2014-10-15 5:45 PM (#459326 - in reply to #439108)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket



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Myke - 2014-05-03 11:14 AM that one seems like its more my price range Jimntempe. Thanks! Also, so then a Three Wire Alternator Would Be able to Drop right into My Existing Wire set up or will i Need a different regulator Or....?

 

I think the ALternators you've been thinking about are all internally regulated, whether one wire or three and they don't use an external regulator.  The significant difference between the 1 wire and three wire is whether they are set up to "run" a dash lamp.  The 3-wire versions can be wired up to work just like the 1-wire version by simply putting a jumper between two of the terminals and if you do you can still run a dash light.  The only benefit to the 1-wire over the 3-wire, even if you wire the 3-wire as a 1-wire, is that the 1-wire is set up with an internal jumper so you see nothing on the outside except literally the one wire that runs to the battery. The spot where the "control" terminals normally stick out has no terminals and you can stick a rubber plug in it and cover it up. 

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rushpowersystems
Posted 2014-10-16 1:15 AM (#459365 - in reply to #438523)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket


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I have been building custom and high amp alternators since 85 and that is the most ridiculous nonsense I have ever heard. My 10 year old daughter makes more electrical sense than that.

If all you need to do to make a 1 wire alternator is jumper terminal 1 and 2 on a SI series GM then why do they build a one wire regulator in the first place? You can make it into a form of a one wire by jumping terminals 1&2 to the battery post but the regulator will always be on and it will drain your battery quickly and burn up the regulator. That is not what they do to make a 1 wire.

The benefit of a one wire is it looks great after you have driven it off your trailer and into the show, they have no business being installed on a driver. And it so unnecessary when converting from a generator, it’s all ready wired. Just install a GM plug, one of the plugs wires goes to the battery post and one to the stock field wire, at the stock external regulator connect the field wire to the ignition wire and your GEN light works and you are done.
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grunau
Posted 2014-10-16 10:47 AM (#459417 - in reply to #459365)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket


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Hi
OK so now I'm confused (normal state of mind but now more than normal) When upgrading from the generator (for those who need to) I've usually recommended the Chrysler Alternator with the standard regulator (available in a semi conductor version for quite a while now) I've been questioned about the GM Delcotron "one wire" alternator and I've always been under the impression that it has a built in regulator (as per GM past practice) and the "one wire" reguired is the single wire(cable) out to the battery and a "system" voltmeter is used to assist in determining if all is well or not. Granted I've never installed one of these but its good to be informed about options ...but now you guys are talking about jumpers and all that I've never heard of this or the option of a dash board warning light with this alternator. The Hot rod guys love 'em and this Alternator is usually centre stage in any discussion about charging system upgrades....clarification please THX
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rushpowersystems
Posted 2014-10-16 11:22 AM (#459419 - in reply to #438523)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket


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The Chrysler alternator is a better choice as far as the wiring and ease of install goes, provided you get, or turn it into a “B” circuit regulator system, that is the regulator sends + voltage to the alternator + brush, through the slip ring, then to ground via the - brush. However the Chrysler will not do as much power at idle as the GM, so a better choice is the Denso alternator used on 90’s Mopar products.

If you car came with a generator (GEN) light on the dash and you use a one wire alternator your GEN light is bypassed and you need a separate volt meter to know what is going on in your vehicles electrical. If you want a GM SI and your factory GEN light to work you need a 3 wire alternator.

My point was you can’t make a one wire alternator out of a GM SI unit by installing jumper wires, not without damaging the regulator and draining the battery. There is a specific regulator for one wire, such as Transpo D10DE6,8,12 depending on your systems voltage. There is a specific regulator for a 3 wire alternator such as Transpo D101. If you want a one wire alternator you need to install the one wire regulator, adding jumpers will not work.
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grunau
Posted 2014-10-16 10:09 PM (#459473 - in reply to #459419)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket


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Thank you...
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jimntempe
Posted 2014-10-18 2:04 AM (#459586 - in reply to #459365)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket



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rushpowersystems - 2014-10-15 10:15 PM I have been building custom and high amp alternators since 85 and that is the most ridiculous nonsense I have ever heard. My 10 year old daughter makes more electrical sense than that. If all you need to do to make a 1 wire alternator is jumper terminal 1 and 2 on a SI series GM then why do they build a one wire regulator in the first place? You can make it into a form of a one wire by jumping terminals 1&2 to the battery post but the regulator will always be on and it will drain your battery quickly and burn up the regulator. That is not what they do to make a 1 wire. The benefit of a one wire is it looks great after you have driven it off your trailer and into the show, they have no business being installed on a driver. And it so unnecessary when converting from a generator, it’s all ready wired. Just install a GM plug, one of the plugs wires goes to the battery post and one to the stock field wire, at the stock external regulator connect the field wire to the ignition wire and your GEN light works and you are done.

 

I can see why you are confused. I said "between two of the terminals" but didn't say the 1&2 because that's not the two terminals that are jumped.  Hint, one of them is the 12+ output terminal.  For a though explanation of the differences and similarities between 1 and 3 wire Alternators I would refer anyone interested to http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/onewire-threewire.shtml where it's all explained.  There's even a picture showing a 3-wire alt converted to a one wire on a tractor by jumpering the "remote sense" terminal to the "12v+" terminal.  No one disagrees that a 3-wire is preferable due to it's remote sense capablity.

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rushpowersystems
Posted 2014-10-18 3:21 AM (#459587 - in reply to #459586)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket


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jimntempe - 2014-10-18 12:04 AM

rushpowersystems - 2014-10-15 10:15 PM I have been building custom and high amp alternators since 85 and that is the most ridiculous nonsense I have ever heard. My 10 year old daughter makes more electrical sense than that. If all you need to do to make a 1 wire alternator is jumper terminal 1 and 2 on a SI series GM then why do they build a one wire regulator in the first place? You can make it into a form of a one wire by jumping terminals 1&2 to the battery post but the regulator will always be on and it will drain your battery quickly and burn up the regulator. That is not what they do to make a 1 wire. The benefit of a one wire is it looks great after you have driven it off your trailer and into the show, they have no business being installed on a driver. And it so unnecessary when converting from a generator, it’s all ready wired. Just install a GM plug, one of the plugs wires goes to the battery post and one to the stock field wire, at the stock external regulator connect the field wire to the ignition wire and your GEN light works and you are done.

 

I can see why you are confused. I said "between two of the terminals" but didn't say the 1&2 because that's not the two terminals that are jumped.  Hint, one of them is the 12+ output terminal.  For a though explanation of the differences and similarities between 1 and 3 wire Alternators I would refer anyone interested to http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/onewire-threewire.shtml where it's all explained.  There's even a picture showing a 3-wire alt converted to a one wire on a tractor by jumpering the "remote sense" terminal to the "12v+" terminal.  No one disagrees that a 3-wire is preferable due to it's remote sense capablity.

 

I was confused because I thought you had a slight bit of knowledge. On a GM SI alternator there are 2 terminals and one battery stud aka post. The two wire plug that plugs into the regulator does so on terminals 1 and 2. The battery charge wire goes to the battery stud. Jumpering the remote sense wire to the 12+ battery stud does NOT make it a 1 wire alternator, it makes it a 1 wire regulation system, you still need a 12+, key on,  wire connected to the IGN terminal of the regulator or it will not energize or “turn on”, that is unless you have a 1 wire regulator.

 

In the photo of the tractor you can see a short red wire from the battery stud to the alternator regulator terminal and the brown wire to the wires at the starter is the ignition wire it turns on the alternator so it is NOT a 1 wire it is a 3 wire alternator.

 

What I am confused about is why someone who does not know what he is talking about  would post incorrect info, in what I can only assume is a desperate attempt to look important. You should actually read the text in the link you posted and not just look at the photos.

 

 

To be clear, if you jumper the battery post to the regulator ignition terminal you will burn up the regulator and drain your battery quickly because the alternators regulator will not turn off, unless you disconnect the battery cables. 

 

Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time. 

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jimntempe
Posted 2014-10-19 3:27 AM (#459654 - in reply to #438523)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket



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I can't say why you were confused, I only know you were. As to the rest of it, that's why I provided the link to the full explanation rather than reinvent the wheel. If you feel taunting people is the appropriate way to communicate I can only feel sorry for you. Perhaps you should go away till you learn civilized behavior.
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grunau
Posted 2014-10-20 7:54 AM (#459750 - in reply to #459654)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket


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Hi

You really need to watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey0wvGiAH9g
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HerbertsNatural
Posted 2015-03-28 12:14 PM (#473673 - in reply to #438523)
Subject: Re: Alternator Bracket


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I just did this on my 55 and bought a bracket painted it and used a 1 wire alternator. All said and done less than $100 and I just ran a super simple wiring setup.
Sorted out some brake wiring before I can drive it. But so far its been stupid simple
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