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D 501
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2014-04-26 1:32 AM (#437915 - in reply to #437911)
Subject: RE: D 501


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Alone time?? Hell no! I did that once and am still wearing the scars!
Greg
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-04-26 11:13 AM (#437954 - in reply to #437914)
Subject: RE: D 501



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Doctor DeSoto - 2014-04-26 10:25 PM

I think he meant "flatulence".


=================================================

Wait till you get some flatulence time. You'll be scarred for life !
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soiouz
Posted 2015-11-29 10:37 AM (#496439 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: RE: D 501



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I see that these pics I found on the Getty Archives website have not been already posted here. It really is a shame that Neil is gone, as he would have had a blast looking at these, I think.

Getty's description says that the photos are from a May 10, 1957 photoshoot for a test drive of a dual carb 1957 Dodge. Getty has the Motor Trend archives, so it probably was a Motor Trend test drive.





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hemidave
Posted 2015-11-29 11:25 AM (#496442 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: RE: D 501



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WOW, great pics, thanks for posting. That would be my favorite FWLK!
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2015-11-29 4:45 PM (#496473 - in reply to #496442)
Subject: RE: D 501



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Great stuff! I guess due to the larger wheels, it did not get the standard wheel covers. As to why it did not have the ultra-standard hub caps, I don't know.
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Swept57
Posted 2015-11-30 12:54 AM (#496515 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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The wheels were 56 Imperial 15" so dog dishes and standard Dodge full covers wouldn't fit. I dont recognize those hubcaps, but Neil always mantained that my 501 would have come with 56 Dodge full-size spinner caps. This is also the second period picture of a 501 that has straight pipe exhaust. The exhaust deflector tips apparently were not standard on the 501. Lee Smith added them to his 501 and he also welded tabs to his wheels so he could run dog dishes.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-11-30 1:52 AM (#496518 - in reply to #496439)
Subject: RE: D 501


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soiouz - 2015-11-29 10:37 AM

I see that these pics I found on the Getty Archives website have not been already posted here. It really is a shame that Neil is gone, as he would have had a blast looking at these, I think.

Getty's description says that the photos are from a May 10, 1957 photoshoot for a test drive of a dual carb 1957 Dodge. Getty has the Motor Trend archives, so it probably was a Motor Trend test drive.



I, too, would have loved to hear Neil's comments on this car!!

Really neat to see pics of a new car taken a few months after it's build date! BUT, I have to question some stuff;

The motor mounts appear to be LATE 57 style.
The ballast resistor appears to be 58 style.
The spark plug trough screws are early not late production.
I have never seen an original battery hold-down secured with hex nuts instead of wing nuts.

I would be willing to bet that Neil had these photos in his library years before "Getty" ever procured them!



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60 Imp
Posted 2015-11-30 7:12 AM (#496531 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: RE: D 501


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Very nice pictures. This car would have gotten old Neil sitting upright for sure!

It must have been a bear to drive with manual brakes. (Would have come with the Imperial 12 inch brakes I suppose, but all Imperials would have power assist?)

The hub caps look like they have an emblem stamped into them? Are they Dodge caps? They look good on this car.

Steve.
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sidesho_bob1961
Posted 2015-11-30 10:07 AM (#496538 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Fuel line from pump to carbs seems pretty nicely bent up and routed to me. Wasn't it the consensious that these were pretty hastily routed???
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Swept57
Posted 2015-11-30 11:01 AM (#496546 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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I'm not seeing any emblems on those caps. They almost look like aftermarket smoothies.

This car clearly is not fresh off the assembly line as evidenced by the grime on the engine. As a magazine test car it was probably tinkered with quite a bit by the time these photos were taken. I don't think Neil was aware of these.
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57DODGECONV
Posted 2015-11-30 4:44 PM (#496563 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501


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Those hubcaps look like 1949 Plymouth ,those would be 15 inch.
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hemidave
Posted 2015-11-30 5:23 PM (#496564 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: RE: D 501



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1949 Plymouth with full hubcaps



(49 ply.jpg)



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Swept57
Posted 2015-11-30 5:33 PM (#496565 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Yeah, that could be them! I doubt that it left the factory with those caps, but who knows on such a limited special-assembled model. I think the yellow convertible that was featured in the MCG article had the 56 Dodge spinner caps. I need to dig up my copy of that to verify.
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Powerflite
Posted 2015-12-01 10:48 AM (#496603 - in reply to #496518)
Subject: RE: D 501



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LD3 Greg - 2015-11-29 10:52 PM
....
The motor mounts appear to be LATE 57 style.
The ballast resistor appears to be 58 style.
The spark plug trough screws are early not late production.
I have never seen an original battery hold-down secured with hex nuts instead of wing nuts.


Are you sure about those motor mounts? My '57 Windsor has the same mounts and is more early than late (2300 serial number).
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Swept57
Posted 2015-12-01 10:59 AM (#496606 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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I wasn't aware there were two styles. Can someone post pics?
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-12-01 3:39 PM (#496644 - in reply to #496606)
Subject: Re: D 501


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Poor pic but this is the earlier style with the mount in the centre of the rubber. The later ones are off centre.

I have a box of salvaged mounts. Some time I'm in that shop I will get better pics.

Greg



(image.jpg)



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Swept57
Posted 2015-12-01 4:02 PM (#496647 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Thanks! Never noticed that. I need to check mine. Any idea when the changeover occurred. If the May 10 photo shoot is accurate, would the offset ones have been available? As a test car it's not unlikely that the motor could have been pulled. Probably went through a few of those spindly transmissions too.
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Viper Guy
Posted 2015-12-01 4:44 PM (#496650 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Re: '57 Convertible pics,

Looks to me like the wheel covers are more of a trim ring and baby moon combo. Not dished deep enough like the stock '49 Plymouth.

Just the way I see it.

Speaking of '57 Dodges, when we were driving in my Dad's '56 DeSoto Fireflite, in the upper part of the lower penninsula of Michigan mid summer prior to the introduction of the '57 models, a caravan of "tried to be disguised" '57 Dodges past us by. That was my first look at what was to come later in the year from Chrysler Corporation. I must say, they sure looked good even with the sticker stuff on 'em. At first we didn't recognize what they were but the "chase vehicle" was a '56 Dodge which pretty much let us us know what they were. They probably had manufacturer license plates but I can't recall for sure.

"It's delightful, it's delovely, it's DeSoto"

Edited by Viper Guy 2015-12-01 10:00 PM
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Swept57
Posted 2015-12-01 5:05 PM (#496654 - in reply to #496650)
Subject: Re: D 501



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The Imperial wheels the D-501 used didn't have the nubs for installing dog dishes so not sure how the center moons would attach.

Cool story on the pre-production Dodges! I once saw a Corvette in the Detroit area that was all masqueraded.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-12-02 2:12 PM (#496756 - in reply to #496644)
Subject: Re: D 501


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LD3 Greg - 2015-12-01 3:39 PM

Poor pic but this is the earlier style with the mount in the centre of the rubber. The later ones are off centre.

I have a box of salvaged mounts. Some time I'm in that shop I will get better pics.

Greg


The early ones on the left, later in the middle and the latest on the right. I don't know when the changeover times took place.

Greg



(image.jpg)



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Swept57
Posted 2015-12-02 5:53 PM (#496764 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Thanks Greg, I'll see what mine are, my 501 was built on 4/30, and my base Coronet was built on 7/12, but no guarantee that either has original mounts.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-12-03 12:08 AM (#496791 - in reply to #496756)
Subject: Re: D 501


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BTY, guys, this is about 25% of the box of salvaged rubber/steel mount stuff. Anyone want it before it goes to scrap?!

Greg
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mstrug
Posted 2015-12-03 6:50 AM (#496801 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Yes. PM sent
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300XMAN
Posted 2015-12-08 9:27 AM (#497290 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501


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I asked Charlie Strang about the type of wheel covers that were on Carl Kiekhaefer's D501 Coronet 2-door Lancer when it was delivered in March 1957. Charlie was not able to recall the type of wheel cover used, but the IBM punch card for Carl's D501 clearly indicates the installation of Code 402 wheel covers. In discussing Carl's D501, Neil said that it came from the factory with the 1956 Dodge, 15" spinner wheel covers. Not having access to the sales order codes for 1957 Dodges, I take it that is what code 402 indicates?
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-12-08 11:29 AM (#497297 - in reply to #497290)
Subject: Re: D 501


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Code 402 is "wheel covers", which I would interpret as standard wheel covers. Code 403 is " deluxe wheel covers" which would be spinners.

Greg
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Swept57
Posted 2015-12-08 1:42 PM (#497303 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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My 501 punch-card shows 403 for wheel-covers and the cover letter from CHS indicates "Deluxe" for 403. Neil has maintained that the 501's with wheel-covers used 1956 Dodge covers which would make sense.

BTW, did Carl's 501 have engine 1001?

Edited by Swept57 2015-12-08 1:43 PM
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300XMAN
Posted 2015-12-08 1:57 PM (#497306 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501


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Yes, Carl's 501 had engine number KD501-1001, which was promptly removed and replaced with in-house engine #H22. Carl specified that his 501 be built with a convertible frame and minus all sound deadener and seam sealer. The car was a customer driveaway, but all of the factory paperwork, including the invoice, was made out to Kiekhaefer Corporation, which was treated as a de facto dealership with its own dealer number.
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Swept57
Posted 2015-12-08 2:40 PM (#497321 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Was it stamped "KD501?" Mine and others I have seen (1005, 1021, 1025, 1038, 1080) are stamped "D501," but Neil and others thought some did have the "KD501" stamp. My IBM card also does not include the "K" in the engine number either.
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300XMAN
Posted 2015-12-08 3:00 PM (#497327 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501


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The IBM punch card reads KD501 1001. The original engine was probably discarded or sold off several decades ago. The current engine would be stamped H22, if anyone ever runs across the car. Its last known location was Waukegan, Illinois in the early 1960s.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-12-09 12:59 AM (#497407 - in reply to #497303)
Subject: Re: D 501


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Swept57 - 2015-12-08 1:42 PM

My 501 punch-card shows 403 for wheel-covers and the cover letter from CHS indicates "Deluxe" for 403. Neil has maintained that the 501's with wheel-covers used 1956 Dodge covers which would make sense


Here is how this appears. Whoever ordered David's car paid for spinners but CK only paid for standard wheel covers but, instead, got spinners N/C. Who knows what REALLY happened!

Greg
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horace
Posted 2015-12-10 3:33 PM (#497579 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Why do people refer to D500Neil past tense?
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C-300
Posted 2015-12-10 3:49 PM (#497583 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501


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Neil passed away on September 18.
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Swept57
Posted 2015-12-18 11:01 AM (#498365 - in reply to #496565)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Swept57 - 2015-11-30 5:33 PM

Yeah, that could be them! I doubt that it left the factory with those caps, but who knows on such a limited special-assembled model. I think the yellow convertible that was featured in the MCG article had the 56 Dodge spinner caps. I need to dig up my copy of that to verify.


Found the article. I believe these are 56 spinners!



(D501_Convert_MCGr.jpg)



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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-12-19 12:40 AM (#498424 - in reply to #498365)
Subject: Re: D 501


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While I'm not a physical player in this 501 thread, I have a couple photos that Neil sent to me many years ago. I thought others would have posted them!!!

3 observations:

There is no 501 emblem on the trunk.
Note the hood scoop.
Note the possibility of a hood to upper bumper safety latch or strap.

Greg



(image.jpg)



(image.jpg)



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Swept57
Posted 2015-12-21 10:47 AM (#498628 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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No exhaust deflector tips either.
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57burb
Posted 2015-12-21 12:29 PM (#498640 - in reply to #498365)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Swept57 - 2015-12-18 10:01 AM

Found the article. I believe these are 56 spinners!


I believe they are, too. But that looks like a photo taken well after 1957. The license plate is modern, it has thin whitewall tires, and I've never seen that rocker trim on a '57 Dodge. It looks like the trim found on '59 Chryslers and Desotos.

I'm not trying to pick the car apart; I'm just saying those wheel covers may not have been OEM. It does make sense they would use the '55-56 15" wheel covers though.
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Swept57
Posted 2015-12-21 1:03 PM (#498645 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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That photo was taken from a 1991 MoPar Collector's Guide article on a D-501 convertible located in Texas and supposedly owned by ex-Chrysler exec "Sonny Bensen." When the article came out, Neil tried to find more info on the owner and car but reached a dead-end as the owner was not involved at all with the article. To my knowledge, that particular 501 has not surfaced again since 1991. But you are correct, by 1991, many things could have been changed. The rocker moulding could have been added to cover rust typical of these cars.
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300XMAN
Posted 2015-12-21 2:52 PM (#498658 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501


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Carl Kiekhaefer's D501, like his 1956 Dodge race cars, was sold directly to Kiekhaefer Corporation under dealer number 59999. A review of an email exchange from Neil last year brought up an important distinction about Kiekhaefer Corporation's dealership status. Neil told me that the dealership (K. Corp.) was not credited with any of the sales. Neil went on to state that "according to Corp researcher Darrell Davis, he can not identify K. 's cars' Dealer Codes for '59998' which is some in-house Department, or venue" for selling the cars directly to Kiekhaefer Corporation. 59998 was the dealer code used for virtually all of the 1957 Dodges that Carl purchased. 9981 was the dealer code that Chrysler Division issued for the 300B race cars sold to/assigned to Kiekhaefer Corporation. The 300Bs were described on the invoices as engineering cars sold "as is". While Kiekhaefer Corporation was being treated as a de facto dealership on the sales invoices, it did not receive its own dealer number as I had thought. Interestingly, the special order box on many of the sales invoices had a number typed in it.
Charlie Strang was not able to recall which type of wheel cover Carl's D501 came through with in March 1957, but I would say that code 402 indicated the standard, 15" stainless wheel cover and code 403 the 15" spinner version. I'm sure Carl disposed of the covers as quickly as possible because the car was supposed to receive modified versions of Charlie Strang's NASCAR spindles and axle shafts, which were meant for use with the Kiekhaefer racing rims. No need for wheel covers with racing equipment.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2015-12-21 9:13 PM (#498700 - in reply to #498658)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Xman,

Any idea what dealer code 89041 was for ? It was some in-house corporate
use, but I do not know exactly what.
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300XMAN
Posted 2016-01-06 12:53 PM (#500175 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501


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Doc,

I just went through some of my Forward Look era paperwork, and the closest dealer code that I could find to 89041 was 80021. Dealer code 80021 was used by Dodge Division when it sold a 1958 Custom Royal Regal Lancer to "E C Kiekhaefer".
ECK D501 update: The Dodge Division invoice for Carl's D501 originally had a dealer code of 59999 printed in the box, but someone later X'ed it out and typed in 59998.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2016-01-06 5:35 PM (#500201 - in reply to #500175)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Interesting. What code number was Dodge Division. DeSoto was "4". Was Dodge designated with a "2" ???

That might explain the 4 on mine and 2 on ECK's Regal Lancer ???

So, do we have any clues as to what the second digit designated ???

If this is of any use, my DeSoto is shown as delivered to 89041. It was wrecked and repaired
for a lot of rust damage in 1960 and sold to the first real owner I can trace at this time. He kept
the car until 1983, the 2nd owner had it till 95, and I have had it since.

That early period is a real mystery, but I suspect if we could figure out what 89041 meant, it might
explain the gap.
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300XMAN
Posted 2016-01-06 6:26 PM (#500220 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501


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Doc,

Thanks for the guidance. I will look into it as I have access to a copy of the IBM punch card and the Dodge Division invoice for ECK's Custom Royal Regal Lancer. I am going to run your questions past a former Chrysler Division chief engineer. Stay tuned!
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christine-lover
Posted 2016-01-06 9:03 PM (#500244 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Xman, what engine was in his Regal Lancer?
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300XMAN
Posted 2016-01-07 7:17 PM (#500342 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501


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As per the original Dodge Division invoice, Carl Kiekhaefer's 1958 Regal Lancer was factory-equipped with an M Series, Super D-500 V8. In other words, his car received a "prototype" 383 Wedge with dual four-barrel carbs. The engine number box is blank on the IBM punch card, thus confirming the engine's prototype status.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2016-01-07 9:24 PM (#500357 - in reply to #500342)
Subject: Re: D 501



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I just remembered another detail on that "89041" code ....

For years, I accepted the CHS explanation that this goofy number must have been
the result of a typo. Then a member of this site popped up with his Grandfather's
1961 Chrysler test mule ... a short wheelbase Chrysler built as a 300 to check the
viability of the Sport 300, introduced in 1962.

I guess Grandpa was tied in with this program, and was retiring, making some
gesture that he really liked the car. Someone pulled some strings and he was given
the car as a retirement gift.

The car was documented since Day One and came with paperwork showing an
"890XX" (number very close to mine) as the dealer code.

This reawakened the idea that my own dealer code was perhaps NOT a typo, and
rather some indication of internal, corporate use (or similar).

Not sure if that intel is of any value, but I thought I'd toss it out there for full disclosure.
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Hyfire
Posted 2016-01-08 5:05 PM (#500487 - in reply to #500357)
Subject: Re: D 501



100252525

Hey Doc,

 

 My car has a 80044 dealer code.  Your code may be similar.

 

 Mine is confirmed to be an internal number for the Chrysler brand.  It's assumed the PR department.  My car was built for a Chrysler brand racing program in 1958 and was provided straight to the driver, so the dealer code was simply used to "bill" the car to another department.  This is how a few of the ex-Chrysler employees explained it to me.  Everything needed to show who was charged for the car... and mine showed that Manufacturing "billed" the car to the PR department.

 I'm not familiar enough with other numbers to know if all 8XXXX number are internal number, or if they are 80XXX numbers.  To add to the confussion,  they changed these codes in late 1957 or early 1958.  My specific code didn't show in the company code directory, but it was right in the mix of factory assigned codes for Chrysler's Michigan offices.

  Don't know if it shines much light, but thought it may clarify a little.  Finding an internal company directory for the exact timeframe the car was built would answer what your code is.

 

  Josh

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d500dodge59
Posted 2016-01-08 5:19 PM (#500490 - in reply to #496756)
Subject: Re: D 501


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greg do you have any wedge motormounts 58-59 for dodge??? JAN
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2016-01-08 8:27 PM (#500511 - in reply to #500490)
Subject: Re: D 501


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Not sure, Jan. I'll email you some pics.

Greg
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300XMAN
Posted 2016-01-11 9:16 AM (#500675 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501


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My source sent me an email saying "I can’t help - this is a phase of our relationship with Carl K. that I didn’t get involved in." The Dodge Division invoice and the IBM punch card did not isolate any of the digits in the dealer code for Carl's Regal Lancer. However, the dealer code for one of Carl's 1960 300Fs was listed as 81201 on the IBM punch card. The F was built in February 1960 and "shipped" to the Chrysler Engineering Division. Chrysler Engineering held the car until July 1960 and then the F was sold to Carl Kiekhaefer. It is unknown why Chrysler Engineering had the F for five months before selling it as a used car to Carl Kiekhaefer.
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Swept57
Posted 2016-01-11 2:02 PM (#500703 - in reply to #498365)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Swept57 - 2015-12-18 11:01 AM

Swept57 - 2015-11-30 5:33 PM

Yeah, that could be them! I doubt that it left the factory with those caps, but who knows on such a limited special-assembled model. I think the yellow convertible that was featured in the MCG article had the 56 Dodge spinner caps. I need to dig up my copy of that to verify.


Found the article. I believe these are 56 spinners!


For completeness, here are the other two pictures from the 1991 MCG article. It is hard to tell from the magazine image (and impossible from the scan), but this one does not appear to have exhaust deflectors either. Also, as has been pointed out many times on this forum, although it is commonly stated that the 501 engine is basically a 300-B engine, in fact, it shares little with the 300-B engine.

Edited by Swept57 2016-01-11 2:06 PM




(MCG_Coronet_02r.jpg)



(MCG_Coronet_03.jpg)



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Attachments MCG_Coronet_02r.jpg (302KB - 302 downloads)
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