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hemidave
Posted 2011-06-24 3:53 PM (#277809)
Subject: D 501



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Did the factory put 3 speed manual trans behind all 1957 D501s ? I'm being offered a D501 conv with TF. Red flag??? Will the cowl tag tell the engine option ?
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hemidave
Posted 2011-06-24 4:20 PM (#277811 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: RE: D 501



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D501 tag



(D501 tag.jpg)



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Attachments D501 tag.jpg (233KB - 394 downloads)
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2011-06-24 5:40 PM (#277816 - in reply to #277811)
Subject: RE: D 501



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Hi, Dave:

A D 501 convertible is nothing at which to sneeze.
I'm sure Neil will have all the scoop, but something already looks fishy - PNT 1LLL is supposed to be Glacier White.
If someone had a real D 501 convertible (one of the few times you can actually say "one of 23 built"), why would they customize it at all?

Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-06-24 5:49 PM
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roadkillontheweb
Posted 2011-06-24 5:52 PM (#277817 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: RE: D 501



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The three speed manual transmissions could not handle the power. The TF was a much better option.

Used to know a couple brothers that ran a dealership in northern Iowa. In 57 they both got new 1957 Plymouth Fury hardtops. One got the automatic the other wanted the stick shift. The brother with the stick car said he had to change the transmission several times because the trans could not take the power. The D 501 would be even more powerful and would tear up the old three speeds.
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d500neil
Posted 2011-06-24 6:19 PM (#277819 - in reply to #277817)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Dave; get the car's VIN....

All known (10 or so not-yet-confirmed, out of 102+, including prototypes)....built have the manual transmission.

It's hard to read that P/T plate, but that car appears to be a 501 vert, and is coded for having the manual trannie.

The size of the manual transmission did not allow power steering to be installed; go ask the seller about THAT feature.

This heavily-loaded ride also has manual brakes----manual: trannie/brakes/steering---FUN car to lug
around town, but, hey, it's a conVERTible, (but with a POWER top mechanism!).

I'd like to see what that car's Scheduled build date is; a lot of the 501's were weirdly and/or heavily optioned in order
to make them attractive to potential buyers and lucrative to the selling dealerships, which, in some instances, were
"awarded" a 501 as the result of meeting some sales quota, etc.

This vert was so heavily optioned that it appears to have undercoating and Solex glass and all of the major option groups!

It "is" all-Glacier-White ('Sorry about that red paint!) with a black top and gold/black interior scheme/motif.

There was a "red/white" D501 vert alleged to be located in/around the PA area; dunno if 'this' (all-white) one is 'that'
car, but, it looks like another vert has surfaced---that makes for three known survivors (out of at least 23 being accounted-for
as having been built).


At least one verified-convertible's engine still exists, too.

Anyone buying this car would be a fool not to restore it to its OEM condition.








Edited by d500neil 2011-06-24 7:10 PM
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hemidave
Posted 2011-06-24 10:29 PM (#277847 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: RE: D 501



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Here is the VIN plate



(D 501 VIN.jpg)



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Attachments D 501 VIN.jpg (28KB - 378 downloads)
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rbmain
Posted 2011-06-25 3:19 AM (#277858 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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I need glasses.
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Swept57
Posted 2011-06-25 9:53 AM (#277870 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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One easy telltale sign is the use of the big (5.0 in) wheel bolt circle from the Imperial.
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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2011-06-25 1:59 PM (#277905 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Stop teasing and show us the car already! That's a honey of a car I'm sure, great find!
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d500neil
Posted 2011-06-25 2:02 PM (#277906 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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15" wheels, with the big bolt circle and 9/16" studs.

Stand by for news, but, a 501 matching your car's description has been located in the records that researcher
Darrell Davis has compiled, to date.

BTW, what is the car's engine number?

There is no sequential stamping numbers on the engines; they were apparently installed virtually at random, but, the
engine numbers are recorded on the IBM Build Cards.

Also, forgot to mention that this very-civilian-ized vert has a OEM heater/defroster and a radio/fender antenna---the IBM card
will be necessary to confirm whether it might instead have dual antennae; it is possible....

The car has been re-painted in both the red, and the white; the VIN tag was originally just popped on after the car
was painted, so, the removal of the red shouldn't be too difficult, if it is merely applied across the middle "saddle" area of the car.

SMS carries in stock the correct upholstery cloth & vinyl, and they can make-up the correct door/quarter panel vinyl, too.

Another thing that I'm curious about is whether either of the seats will be "Air Foam" padded.

All Coros came standard with only (non-padded) Jute seat-spring coverings; this info will be shown
on the IBM card copy, as well.

Easy resto, except, maybe, for the floor covering.

All 57 Coros & Royals came standard with rubber floor mats.

Carpeting was optionally available, and will be so-coded (only) on the IBM cards, but, carpeting was an otherwise rarely
tendered option on the low line Coronet models.

As no company (TIAAO-) remanufactures the rubber floor mats, you may be forced to install carpeting,
but, since this car is undercoated, it might well have carpeted floors.

With this car's 15" wheels, and the way that it is option-coded, this vehicle should have the 1956 15" (shortie-flipper)
spinner wheel covers on it.

It is possible (but not probable, at this late-date) that this car's Broadcast Sheet might still be found, taped to the back
of the glove box.








Edited by d500neil 2011-06-25 6:45 PM
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StillOutThere
Posted 2011-06-25 2:29 PM (#277907 - in reply to #277870)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Swept57 - 2011-06-25 8:53 AM One easy telltale sign is the use of the big (5.0 in) wheel bolt circle from the Imperial.

The Imperial bolt pattern is a 5.5" bolt pattern.   All other Mopars of the Forward Look era are 4.5" pattern.

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d500neil
Posted 2011-06-25 6:24 PM (#277925 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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The new owner of this 501 will still need to buy the car's Birth Certificate (the IBM build card copy),
but, it now appears that this ride (with manual steering/brakes/trannie) does have optional OEM dual
antennae and carpeting.

Dodge could have put power brakes on this car, but didn't, for whatever reason.




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Swept57
Posted 2011-06-25 7:26 PM (#277936 - in reply to #277907)
Subject: Re: D 501



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StillOutThere - 2011-06-25 11:29 AM

Swept57 - 2011-06-25 8:53 AM One easy telltale sign is the use of the big (5.0 in) wheel bolt circle from the Imperial.

The Imperial bolt pattern is a 5.5" bolt pattern.   All other Mopars of the Forward Look era are 4.5" pattern.



I couldn't remember the exact number so I guessed at 5.0. Sad thing is I was too lazy to go out in the garage and measure.

This is a huge find if it turns out to be real!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2011-06-26 12:50 AM (#277991 - in reply to #277936)
Subject: Re: D 501



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The 5.0 was pretty much a Mustang thing and Mopar had very little involvement after
selling off their Equine Division in late 1958.
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d500neil
Posted 2011-06-26 11:32 PM (#278124 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Speaking of manual-everything; I was re-reading the Hot Rod issue where they drove a 58 Fury stick/manual steering
and brakes and a 3.73 rear end across country and loved the experience.




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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2011-06-27 12:41 AM (#278129 - in reply to #278124)
Subject: Re: D 501



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I suppose if someone were to "give" me a car like that to test it would be O-K. It certainly doesn't sound like a dream cruise to me, I love powerful cars but it's not ALL about the power. Plus a '58 Fury isn't all THAT powerful (by standards of today anyhow).
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2011-06-27 3:10 AM (#278136 - in reply to #278129)
Subject: Re: D 501



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3.73 gears mean a wound out speed of about 50. You could push it to 65, but she'd be humming
HARD ! Imagine that across all those wide open spaces between L.A. and Tucumcari ! Such a car
would very much be a specialty use vehicle and long runs would NOT be what such a car was built
for.

I've never noticed that much difference in power between many of the FL cars. My DeSoto would
likely hold a Fury on a 0-60 run. I never cared about the power. It is about the curb appeal. My
66 Coronet will run circles around any FL I've driven, but looks like a box you might ship parts in
by comparison ! The Forward Look "speed" is far more visual than actual. Not that they don't get
up and go, ... just that they LOOK even faster when sitting still !!!!
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d500neil
Posted 2011-06-28 4:16 PM (#278347 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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At the end of the road testing, H.R. said that "their" Fury (which the author did not rule out buying!) would have the
T/Flite and power steering, and the 2.93 (!) or the 3.15 rear gears.

They reportedly ran that 3.73 gear (which is standard ratio with the 3-speed stick) for 2,600 miles across country.

"With all windows closed against the cold weather, the quietness of the car was immediately noticeable. Wind and engine
noise was negligible even though we were travelling at a fairly fast clip at times and engine rpm's were often pretty high
due to the 3.73 gear ratio".

Men were men, back then.







Edited by d500neil 2011-06-28 4:18 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2011-06-28 4:23 PM (#278349 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Back on thread, for a moment; the D501 has the 3.73 gear as standard ratio, but anything from 2.92 to 6.17 was
optionally available.

No overdrive trannie was available, because it was too weak (N/A even for the '58 Fury, above).

The 3.73-gear would be effectively raised to a higher-ratio (lower numerically) for better fuel economy
and lower engine speeds by the use of the 15" wheels/7.60x15" tires on the D501's, compared to that of the 14" wheels/tires
which were installed on all of the rest of the 57+ FWDLK'ers.







Edited by d500neil 2011-06-28 4:32 PM
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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2011-06-28 9:05 PM (#278397 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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I guess the greater percentage of FL auto buying public weren't men as more auto trans cars were built and sold than manual, factory "hot-rods" included? Somehow I think "men" controlled the family financial purchases in a much more controlling fashion than today. So taking that into account were they somehow less than "men" for preferring an auto trans than a clunky breakage prone (in my words) inferior manual trans? Most drag racers also preferred the torqueflite trans and I wouldn't call anyone with a 4-1000 hp hemi motor stuffed literally between their legs less than "men". Just a thought..

Edited by Finsinthemirror 2011-06-28 9:07 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2011-06-28 9:14 PM (#278399 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Beginning of the Wimp era, yeah...

These road testers wanted to experience how the real-car operated, and so got a no-excuses model
to drive across country.

At the end of the testing, they wanted some creature comforts!

The D501 was created as a race car, albeit stillborn, thanks pretty much to Kiekaefer's withdrawl from
NASCAR involvement, but also due to the Corporation's almost complete dis-interest in the (positive) effects
of racing results' effects on vehicle sales.









Edited by d500neil 2011-06-28 9:19 PM
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hemidave
Posted 2011-06-28 9:25 PM (#278403 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: RE: D 501



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I'm still waiting ( on the edge of my seat ) for more details and most importantly.....price.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2011-06-28 11:37 PM (#278423 - in reply to #278397)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Finsinthemirror - 2011-06-29 6:05 PM

I guess the greater percentage of FL auto buying public weren't men as more auto trans cars were built and sold than manual, factory "hot-rods" included? Somehow I think "men" controlled the family financial purchases in a much more controlling fashion than today. So taking that into account were they somehow less than "men" for preferring an auto trans than a clunky breakage prone (in my words) inferior manual trans? Most drag racers also preferred the torqueflite trans and I wouldn't call anyone with a 4-1000 hp hemi motor stuffed literally between their legs less than "men". Just a thought..


**********************************************************

"When men were men" is a common figure of speech to denote a time when someone
had to "buckle down" and just get the job done. Methinks you are being too literal ?

Having driven these cars in stick configuration, in both floor and column applications,
it is a testament to the paradigm of the times what a buying public considered "acceptable".

They are NOT smooth and easy cars to drive and an automatic is beyond comparison easier
to drive. But I remember talking with old timers way back who revealed clues about the time.
They said things like "Dad never trusted those newfangled automatics", or my favorite from
my own grandfather ... radios do not belong in cars. They are nothing but a distraction and
will get you in an accident !

Those were indeed different times.
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Chrycoman
Posted 2011-06-29 12:32 AM (#278431 - in reply to #278399)
Subject: Re: D 501



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d500neil - 2011-06-28 9:14 PM
Beginning of the Wimp era, yeah...

These road testers wanted to experience how the real-car operated, and so got a no-excuses model
to drive across country.

At the end of the testing, they wanted some creature comforts!

The D501 was created as a race car, albeit stillborn, thanks pretty much to Kiekaefer's withdrawl from
NASCAR involvement, but also due to the Corporation's almost complete dis-interest in the (positive) effects
of racing results' effects on vehicle sales.


Not to mention the auto manufacturers backed out of racing in 1957, with the decision not to advertise speed and racing. No sense in dumping cash into product you can't tell anyone you're selling.

Prior to that Chrysler did push racing. Advertising for the 1955 Chrysler 300 and 1956 300B, Fury and D-500 pushed racing and speed records set by their products. Chevy and Ford were the same. 1957, though, was a different story across the whole industry. Even the AAA got out of racing and handed their almost 60 years of keeping the nation's racing records over to another group.

Today we would say racing became politically incorrect in 1957.
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Chrispy
Posted 2011-06-29 12:48 AM (#278434 - in reply to #278423)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Doctor DeSoto - 2011-06-28 9:37 PM

Finsinthemirror - 2011-06-29 6:05 PM

I guess the greater percentage of FL auto buying public weren't men as more auto trans cars were built and sold than manual, factory "hot-rods" included? Somehow I think "men" controlled the family financial purchases in a much more controlling fashion than today. So taking that into account were they somehow less than "men" for preferring an auto trans than a clunky breakage prone (in my words) inferior manual trans? Most drag racers also preferred the torqueflite trans and I wouldn't call anyone with a 4-1000 hp hemi motor stuffed literally between their legs less than "men". Just a thought..


**********************************************************

"When men were men" is a common figure of speech to denote a time when someone
had to "buckle down" and just get the job done. Methinks you are being too literal ?

Having driven these cars in stick configuration, in both floor and column applications,
it is a testament to the paradigm of the times what a buying public considered "acceptable".

They are NOT smooth and easy cars to drive and an automatic is beyond comparison easier
to drive. But I remember talking with old timers way back who revealed clues about the time.
They said things like "Dad never trusted those newfangled automatics", or my favorite from
my own grandfather ... radios do not belong in cars. They are nothing but a distraction and
will get you in an accident !

Those were indeed different times.


Grandpa was on to something there, fiddling with the radio is distracting Its only gotten worse since then, my new kenwood in my Porsche was hellish to learn coming from my previous alpine.
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d500neil
Posted 2011-06-29 4:02 PM (#278516 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Bill cites a commonly held mythology about cause and effect in regards to Chrysler's abandonment of its 'support' and its
advertising of organized racing efforts.

The American Manufacturers Association's voluntary ban on the factory (of which, Chrysler had NONE, in 1957) sponsorship of
specific racing teams, took effect on 6/6/57, which occurred before the 25th race of that season (on 6/10/57) in a 53 race season.

According to "NASCAR Newsletter" of 6/21/57 : "Favorable reaction seen to Factory Race withdrawal : The apparent divorce of
the auto industry from racing and other tests of speed occasioned no particular stir at NASCAR International Headquarters as the
decision was made official following a June 6 meeting of the directors of the [A.M.A.] in Detroit.

The decision, of course, had been expected for some time and took no one by surprise. The general idea was that there would be
little or no effect on the general alignment of cars and drivers for 1957....i.e., the so-called factory drivers were expected to continue
on in an independent basis, undoubtedly in the same cars.

It was expected, however, to give a further boost to the 'little fellows' who figured on getting back into stock car racing with a real
chance of winning.

NASCAR President Bill France expressed himself by saying that the absence of factory-sponsored participation will put automobile
racing back as more of a sports affair than it has been since the entrance of manufacturers into the field [of racing sponsorship]."



.....During the height of Kiekaefer's racing success in 1955-1956, Chrysler barely promoted or advertised the 300/D500 successes
as being relevant or beneficial to the general buying public, other than in specific Daytona Beach records being posted for the 300 and
in some non-specific drag racing situation advertisements for the D500.

Chrysler's honchos (remember KT Keller's edict about early 50's Mopes having to have enough headroom so as to being able to wear
[top-]hats inside their cars?) were old-schoolers, not hot-rodders, at heart.

After the Hemi was introduced in 1951, it took several years (1955?) before a 4-barrel carb was OEM installed on it, and (dirty-
little-secret:) all of the Hemi engines received woefully under-advanced distributor systems, so that their true performance
capabilities were never tapped, at the OEM-level (but, that's another thread-subject!).

In 1957, there were a couple similar "Timing Association" advertisements for the Fury V800 option, but, nothing for the D500
model(s) in regards to any 'competitive' situations.

So, Chrysler had ZERO to forfeit by the June 1956 A.M.A. voluntary ban on the sponsorship or advertising of any racing results, because
Kiekaefer's racing efforts terminated after the 1956 NASCAR season, and Dodge didn't try to field any 1957 racing teams.


BTW, it is widely accepted that Chubbie (and probably Fart) continued its racing sponsorships/assistance "under-the-table" to selected
racing teams after the A.M.A. racing/promotion ban was enacted.

Racing results were posted and discussed in the automotive publications, and anyone who cared about racing or brand loyalty always
knew who-won-what racing event.








Edited by d500neil 2011-06-29 4:14 PM
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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2011-06-29 4:26 PM (#278517 - in reply to #278423)
Subject: Re: D 501



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You can "thinks" what you want. Nothing I said was subject to opinion, it was fact. I've driven plenty of different configurations of these cars too and I'd take an auto over a manual ANY day. It has nothing to do with being liberal or being lazy. From every practical standpoint (even historical racing) the torquflite is a superior trans and will stomp all over the manual trans everywhere.
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StillOutThere
Posted 2011-06-29 5:43 PM (#278526 - in reply to #278516)
Subject: Re: D 501



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d500neil - 2011-06-29 3:02 PM SNIP After the Hemi was introduced in 1951, it took several years (1955?) before a 4-barrel carb was OEM installed on it, and (dirty- little-secret:) all of the Hemi engines received woefully under-advanced distributor systems, so that their true performance capabilities were never tapped, at the OEM-level (but, that's another thread-subject!). SNIP 

Both Chrysler and Imperial first offered WCFB four barrel carburetors late in the 1953 model year.  In fact, Chrysler had available a dual quad intake manifold late in the 1953 model year.   So whatever is being quoted here (no attribution is given -- is this original from you Neil?) is quite wrong about "several years" before Chrysler put a 4bbl on the hemi; it was mid to late 1953.   NO CAR had a 4bbl carb in 1951 and I believe ONLY Buick and Cadillac offered the 4bbl in 1952 so Chrysler Corp. was right in the mainstream with their 1953 introduction of 4bbl carbs and intakes.   Hudson never got a 4bbl on their Detroit production.  Studebaker waited until 1955.

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d500neil
Posted 2011-06-29 5:50 PM (#278527 - in reply to #278526)
Subject: Re: D 501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Nope----the "1955" was a SWAG....that's why I put the "(?)" after that date.

The part about the miserably deficient distributor advancements in all the Hemi's is fact.

But, if you want to discuss the dissies, let's do it on another, proper, thread.




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StillOutThere
Posted 2011-06-29 6:29 PM (#278537 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: RE: D 501



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Location: Under the X in Texas
This 3' x 4' poster in black and yellow hanging on the wall of your Chrysler Plymouth dealer show room in 1956 seems to speak to the idea that Chrysler was employing a bit of the "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday" philosophy, don't we think?  




($(KGrHqIOKp0E1q0356Z)BNcqRorl1w~~_12.jpg)



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Attachments $(KGrHqIOKp0E1q0356Z)BNcqRorl1w~~_12.jpg (58KB - 351 downloads)
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d500neil
Posted 2011-06-29 6:36 PM (#278538 - in reply to #278537)
Subject: Re: D 501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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"Sponsored by Kiekaefer Corp."

oh, yeah....






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Dash One
Posted 2011-06-30 9:47 AM (#278610 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501


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Hemi Dave, You could get a manual or Torqueflite. The advantages to a manual would be launch control at the drags and better engine braking at the roundy rounds. The manual was a new design for 57 and was a bit better than the 40-56 version. The torquefite was a better overall trans but did need some refining when it came to shift points. I think the optional 57 390 hp 300s used the manual. Lee Smiths D501 has a stick, originally this was Arnie Beeswicks racer. Hope this helps. Tim in Golden
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2011-06-30 10:03 AM (#278616 - in reply to #278610)
Subject: Re: D 501



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I hope this isn't too off-topic, but this 3-speed manual (reworked or new ?) for 57 ....
.. was this the same one put in all HP apps through the fin era, or can anyone cite the
lineage as the manual transmission was evolved through these years for performance ?
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carjock
Posted 2011-06-30 10:24 AM (#278621 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501


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I keep waiting for a photo or some documentation that this car is the real deal. I didn't even know that they ever made a D501 Convert, so I am very interested to see if this car is for real!
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Dash One
Posted 2011-06-30 11:51 AM (#278635 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501


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There is one known D501 convertible. It was featured in Mopar Collectors Guide about 15 years ago or more. The car has not showed up anywhere since (that I know of). As for the manual trans the 57 was almost totally new and went to 59 and then was changed again to some degree so 55-56, 57-59, 60-61 would be a breakdown. Tim in Golden

Edited by Dash One 2011-06-30 11:53 AM
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StillOutThere
Posted 2011-06-30 12:28 PM (#278640 - in reply to #278635)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Dash One - 2011-06-30 10:51 AM    SNIP    " ... would be a breakdown." Tim in Golden

 

Tim,  When talking stick transmissions and race cars, could I request that if at all possible you wouldn't mind using some other descriptive word than "breakdown".   

LOL  ROF

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2011-06-30 1:35 PM (#278656 - in reply to #278640)
Subject: Re: D 501



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The D-501 ran the race modified 354 Hemi, correct ?
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hemidave
Posted 2011-06-30 1:37 PM (#278657 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: RE: D 501



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Carjock, bear with me, I'm still waiting also. When someone other than the actual owner is involved, you never know the outcome. I've even had owners themselves decide not to sell after they initially ask me if I'm interested. Sometimes they are price shopping. I'm hoping this one is real.
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Swept57
Posted 2011-06-30 1:37 PM (#278658 - in reply to #278635)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Dash One - 2011-06-30 8:51 AM

There is one known D501 convertible. It was featured in Mopar Collectors Guide about 15 years ago or more. The car has not showed up anywhere since (that I know of).


In addition to the convertible featured in MCG (which was described as having an automatic, but since it was purportedly a Chrysler exec car it could have come with special options), there is one being restored in California. I have heard rumors of another one as well. Dave
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2011-06-30 1:56 PM (#278662 - in reply to #278658)
Subject: Re: D 501



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I got a cold call from a guy who said he was from Yakima and had an all-white D-501
he wanted to sell.

I am spacing out on if he said it was a ragtop or not ....... but I think he said it was.

I called Neil about verifying its original build status, but never heard back from the
seller or got an answer when calling back. Neil, do you remember what I told you ?

I think he was just shopping a big buck and I wasn't ga-ga enough to "bother with".
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Swept57
Posted 2011-06-30 2:29 PM (#278667 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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I am pretty sure that the one that came out of Washington state was a sedan.
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d500neil
Posted 2011-06-30 3:03 PM (#278669 - in reply to #278662)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Oh, man; major brain-fart, there, Brent; I do not recall our having discussed the availability of a D501, or else,
the car turned out to be a D500 & I've forgotten about 'it'....

Tim, et al: ONLY a 3-speed manual trannie was OEM available in all of the D501's.

That 9/91 issue of MCG confirmed that the car's original owner, "Sonny Benson" had the car be converted to a T/Flite
trannie, and that Mr. Benson was a corporate VP, of some stripe.

That car was last 'seen' in that issue, but Benson/the car reportedly resided in TX, and that article was 2nd-hand ghost-
written, by its author, who only had friend-of-a-friend type info on Benson/the car, when I contacted MCG, back in '91
about trying to research the car.

The article's photos appear to be several 'casually-presented' items and not particularly detailed or professionally obtained.

Neither Mr. Benson's nor this car's current whereabouts are known.

The second real D501 vert is presently being restored (and having its engine be re-united with its OEM body/chassis
in the process) in CA.

Yes, the D501 has a heavily modified 300B engine in it. It was/is a monster, but it was emasculated by its 3-speed stick
trannie.

Brent, I've been, informally, trying to understand the evolution of the 3-speed stick, over the decades, and am still trying
to confirm what its last and best iteration was, as far as synchronization and gear spacing, and maybe overdrive is
concerned.

The 50's OD-stick was too weak( and that's saying something) even for the standard V/8 engines, according to Hot Rod magazine.

The 501 never ran in NASCAR, because, altho Dodge played by the rules and planned for the production of 100+ of them,
after K. got out of NASCAR, Dodge reportedly (as commented upon by Sandy Grady, in his "Stock Report" article in Speed Age
[forget the issue date, right now]..."Dodge bigwigs have approached one top Grand National driver [probably Lee Petty or
Cotton Owens] with the idea of organizing a racing stable."

That same article mentions K.'s withdrawl from NASCAR, so the article's preparation apparently occurred sometime after K.
abandoned his racing efforts.

I have no records confirming precisely when K. got out of NASCAR, but this article talks about the up-coming 1957 season (which
began on 11/11/56), so, with the magazine's 3-month lead time, the article was probably written or referenced to June/July/August
of 1956. The referenced Speed Age page-copy is not dated; got the mag at home, though.

Anyway, Dodge's D501 program was almost certainly prepared in anticipation of K.'s pending 1957 season, and K. may well
have had direct input into the 501's features.

After K.'s pull-out, Dodge was left with a commitment to build 100+ 501's (NASCAR requirement), but with nobody to campaign
them.

This might have been a bit of a Perfect Storm, but NASCAR rules also said that the announcement of the availability of any new
sanctioned car-model (which the 501 certainly was) be made "at least 90 days prior to participation in a NASCAR sanctioned
event."

There also was to have been "suitable national advertising through the manufacturer's regular national advertising media at least
30 days prior to the [first-] event."

Dodge never tried to make any public announcements or advertising about the 501's creation, perhaps due to the procedural
difficulties in arranging for the creation of a completely-factory-new NASCAR racing program.

At any rate, no factory, or privateer team-driver was contracted, and the corporation (which was probably fully-focused in getting
the quantom-ly new 57's into production, and making some serious money, after the disappointing 1956 selling-year) didn't
want to be distracted by organizing some 'racing-team' and the very-special-building of only a 100-car production run, probably
said scrooit, and postponed the 501 production until way-later in the model year (late March---and, as we know, most of the 501's
that were built were heavily optioned, to make them attractive/sell-able/profitable).

Interestingly, three prototype 501's were (somehow) allowed to appear in/at the FEB 57 Daytona Speed Weeks trials, but with only
two of them making official runs (E.Lile & E. Lyons) "...men off of the street", as Hot Rod so eloquently described them, in
Class 7, for "Over 350 c.i.", with Lile copping 4th (out of the top 5 results-recorded, in a Sports Illustrated article on the festivities) in
the Standing Mile, and with Lyons also scoring 4th in the Flying mile (with only the top 5 results being listed).

Neither man got higher than 4th (apparently) in the 'other-of-the-two' events.

300C's got first in both of those classifications, with R. Byron getting Flying Mile, and B. Shaw getting Standing Mile awards.

BTW, K. did get one of the first production 501's (on 3/22/57) a hardtop which was put onto a convertible chassis---for
extra strength.

There are no known racing trials recorded for K.'s car, and its disposition/whereabouts are unknown---it was Coral & white,
though, and did have a heater in it.

No D501 ever officially raced in a NASCAR event, altho Dick Joslin did race a "1957 Dodge" hardtop, for owner Doc White, in the
58 Daytona Beach race---he started in 29th and finished in 43rd, retiring after 6 laps (of 39) with "hose" failure (cooked engine???).





Edited by d500neil 2011-06-30 5:29 PM
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hemidave
Posted 2011-06-30 3:36 PM (#278672 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: RE: D 501



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Neil,
Isn't the D501 conv in CA being built using the original drivetrain, VIN, and cowl tag from the car it came from the factory with, a car that was deemed too rusted/wrecked to restore years ago?
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d500neil
Posted 2011-06-30 4:18 PM (#278675 - in reply to #278672)
Subject: Re: D 501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Dave, the OEM body/chassis still exists; hopefully the restorer will still use at least the chassis, because it is dedicated
to the car; the body panels and misc. equipment are all interchangeable items.

But, no, the final result can never be claimed as being a "Survivor"!





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Dash One
Posted 2011-06-30 4:29 PM (#278677 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501


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Neil, I have a comprehensive spec book compiled from Chrysler records in 1960. It states Torqueflite was available. These spec sheets list even the carbs for the D501 which were different than 300b or the Super D500. This book is very comprehensive and is one of the few books that lists correctly all the Dodge D500-1 info for 56. It shows that 57 D501 stick cars had @ 12 available optional ratios with a 3.73 standard and the D501 auto had a 3.18 standard with 2 optional ratios. The book refers to all three models of the 57 D500 cars, the D500, Super D500, and D501. I am at work now but I was looking it over earlier concerning this thread. I can refer to it more later.

Edited by Dash One 2011-06-30 4:34 PM
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StillOutThere
Posted 2011-06-30 4:51 PM (#278682 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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E.C. Kiekhaefer officially quit NASCAR in January of 1957. By February he had ordered his first of three "Road America competition coupe" 300C hardtops built again on a convertible frame. His intention was to stay out of the oval races but to enter the road racing series which NASCAR was running at the time. His re-entry as a participant would have been at the Road America race course at Elkhart Lake, WI, not that far from Mercury Marine in Fond du Lac and his race car Plant #6 in Oshkosh, WI. I own the only surviving Road Am. comp. coupe. That road race series was cancelled immediately preceding the June race at Road America. Kiekhaefer dabbled in sports car racing for several years thereafter but was never a serious entry.
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d500neil
Posted 2011-06-30 4:53 PM (#278683 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Tim, that must be in error (a factory error?) because of the 92 D501's that Darrell Davis has found IBM cards-on,
EVERY one (including 23 verts) was built with the mighty 3-speed manual trannie in it.

There were a total of 14 rear-gear ratios available: 3.73 (standard), 2.92, 3.18, 3.36, 3.54, 3.91, 4.1, 4.3, 4.56,
4.89, 5.12, 5.38, 5.83, and 6.17 .---that would make 13 "optional" gear ratios; 14-total ratios.

Again, NO automatic transmissions were OEM-installed in any (of the 92-found-to-date) D501s----
at least 10 cars (hardtops, probably, as their BDY codings are significantly different from the verts & the sedans, but not necessarily
HT's) IBM cards are yet to be found.


...And, as my Freshman Psych prof said, in Re: Ghosts: " It's not that I do not believe in them, SHOW me
one."

Any/all 501's will have Birth Certificates that will confirm their trannie status.

No auto-trannie 501's have been found, to date, and the "January 1957" A.M.A. Specification Sheets state categorically,
that only the 3-speed manual was available in the 501's.










Edited by d500neil 2011-06-30 5:03 PM
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hemidave
Posted 2011-06-30 5:11 PM (#278688 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: RE: D 501



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Neil,
I may be wrong, but I thought the guy that is building it, or someone "in the know" said that that original body was crushed. Back then, a lot of cars were "totalled", thinking that it was not worth fixing them.
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StillOutThere
Posted 2011-06-30 5:12 PM (#278689 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



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Tim didn't say any torqueflite D-501s were necessaily BUILT. He said the paperwork documents that torqueflite was AVAILABLE with a D-501 package. Looks to me like he was offering support for the POSSIBILITY of an automatic equipped car. That doesn't make the paperwork WRONG. Just because all so far existing are manual trans doesn't eliminate the documentation of the next found car to be torqueflite equipped, now does it?

The 390 HP 300Cs could only be ordered as manual trans cars. ONLY be so-ordered. Yet Kiekhaefer received two 390HP cars with torqueflites. We are talking 1957 here and anything was possible if you placed cash on the salesman's desk and enough of it was sent to the factory. ANYTHING; to heck with the books. For that matter show me how any hardtop could be ordered with a convertible frame. My 300C has had one since new.
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d500neil
Posted 2011-06-30 5:15 PM (#278690 - in reply to #277809)
Subject: Re: D 501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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S.o.T., K. may have "officially" bailed on NASCAR in 1/57, but Speed Age was commenting upon his leaving
"breaking-the-news" (buried in the body of the article), in that mid-late 1956 issue that I've got, with its
standard 3-month preparation lead-time.

The article's author refers to the up-coming NASCAR season, and the season began on 11/11/56.

Mr. Grady states: " After months of rumors, Carl K. has made a move to quit the stock car battlefield." ....
..."I expect to see K.'s 'Big White Cars' in a few races this year, although his own name may not be prominently associated
with the stable."

K. is quoted, saying to Mr Grady: " ..If I compete at all, it will not be at every 'bullring' in the country as we have tried to do--but
only in the big events".

So, it may be accurately stated that K. "officially" decided to get outta NASCAR (when he failed to show up at any of their
races) but, his decision to bail out from NASCAR was effectively made sometime DURING the spring/summer of the 1956
racing season, as is reported in Mr. Grady's Speed Age article.






Edited by d500neil 2011-06-30 5:21 PM
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