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Location: Parts Unknown | This has been kicked around before, but now I have a specific question.
1958 Plymouth, .. were dog dish hubcap cars ever equipped with Argent colored wheels,
or should they always be body paint color ?
My 58 Plaza came with 5 Argent wheels. No saying that those are the ones delivered with
the car when new, but unlikely they were not, given that the car was only six years old when
parked. I have seen earlier and later cars with body color wheels when equipped with dog
dishies, but really have no hard FACTS stating that they MUST be body color or Argent.
Any of you more diehard 58 Plymouth guys know for sure ? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 782
Location: Edmonton, Alberta | Hi Doc:
Let me start by saying I don't have the first clue. But... I found this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76Q-Uy-1H70&playnext=1&list=PL97C32E...
The video says 1957, it's actually for 1959 Plymouths, it's cheezy as heck to watch, but take a look at the wheel in the car trunk at the beginning of the commercial, and then have a look at the wheels (with dog dishes) in the fake Plymouth factory. It's about 3:15 into the commecial. It's hard for me to tell, because the commecial is black and white, but those rims look pretty light colored to me. Maybe argent?
This proves nothing, but it maybe it might help you form some opinions?
Edited by sconut1 2011-06-03 10:31 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Doc -
My old Belvedere, now Plymouth Twin's, was pretty original and it had argent wheels - of course, Belvederes came standard with full wheel covers - so not much help there. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Thanks to douchebags spending work hours watching Youtube, it is blocked by IT here in AFG.
I know this is going to be an obscure reference because there are only six of us 58 Plymouth
owners not making them into Christines, and only two of us going with original dog dishies, so
everyone reading this is rolling their eyes and thinking "Paint it red and f!ck those dog dishies!"
But I was hoping someone out there had documentary evidence saying what was what. It has
always been my desire to have that matching color wheel look, and I would not have questioned
this being stock, if it were not for my car having all five wheels painted Argent. Now I am questioning
my observations over the years.
Several cars come to mind ... a 60 Savoy with blue wheels on a blue car, a 59 Savoy with white
wheels on a turquoise car, and a 56 with the same light green as my car on both wheels and body.
I *want* to remember the original buzzard puke green Plaza that inspired my search for this car as
having body colored wheels ... or perhaps white ? But it was under a a pile of three-four cars and
was pretty well mashed down over the wheels, as well as being a long-term wrecking yard car in a
wet and rusty climate. Beyond that, I just have no solid memory of a 57 or 58 with dog dishies.
Seems they always had full face wheel covers !
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Expert
Posts: 3575
Location: Netherlands | Here are a number of pics of dogdish '58 (mostly) Plymouths I found during a Google-session...
 (Battalion-1960s-0001.jpg)
 (Battalion-1960s-0002b.jpg)
 (Battalion-1960s-0003b.jpg)
 (diesel-plymouth.jpg)
 (dinky_plymouth_plaze_taxi.jpg)
 (DirtyDuck_57Savoy-804px-reverse.jpg)
 (full-1.jpg)
 (full.jpg)
 (i245117.jpg)
 (NMSantaFeCristoReyChurch.jpg)
 (Picture 1.jpg)
 (Picture 1Tube.jpg)
 (plymouth+Plaza+estate+ambulance+larssons+blog.jpg)
 (vlcsnap2010120411h03m26.jpg)
Attachments
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 Battalion-1960s-0001.jpg (30KB - 107 downloads)
Battalion-1960s-0002b.jpg (95KB - 112 downloads)
Battalion-1960s-0003b.jpg (92KB - 105 downloads)
diesel-plymouth.jpg (70KB - 92 downloads)
dinky_plymouth_plaze_taxi.jpg (93KB - 103 downloads)
DirtyDuck_57Savoy-804px-reverse.jpg (61KB - 176 downloads)
full-1.jpg (5KB - 99 downloads)
full.jpg (6KB - 146 downloads)
i245117.jpg (43KB - 114 downloads)
NMSantaFeCristoReyChurch.jpg (59KB - 152 downloads)
Picture 1.jpg (243KB - 108 downloads)
Picture 1Tube.jpg (48KB - 105 downloads)
plymouth+Plaza+estate+ambulance+larssons+blog.jpg (72KB - 161 downloads)
vlcsnap2010120411h03m26.jpg (30KB - 97 downloads)
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Location: Parts Unknown | Hmmm .... the fleet cars will all have custom paint to suit the buyer, so those don't tell much.
But that blue 57 Plaza at Christo Rey Church looks to be a good example of a plain old civilian-
bought car with body color wheels. But this still leaves the question about 58, as in 58 Mopar
decided to use Argent a lot on valances, headlight surrounds, etc. Did they make all wheels
Argent across the board to simplify production ?
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Veteran
Posts: 225
Location: Michigan | This is a 57, not exactly what you were looking for, but these wheels appear to be body color.
The little box in the corner with the circles? I took samples from light and dark areas from body and wheels for side by side comparison.
I flipped a wheel so the shade gradiation would match the body and put it in the middle of the door.
Once again this is a 57, but unless this car was silver those wheels sure look body color to me.
 (shades test.jpg)
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shades test.jpg (97KB - 102 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | It certainly appears that Mopar used argent on SOME '58 Plymouths judging by the assembly line photo and some of the others there.
If your car has five argent wheels, let's assume it was built with argent wheels.  Maybe you can get lucky and find pictures taken by the first owner to confirm it.
Are you wanting to paint them body color? I don't think anyone is going to give you grief over it if you do. It's not like you're messing up a Christine clone!  |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Let's review ... as "Mr. Factoid" on these Plymouths, I am not. But I do remember
discussion regarding valances (I think on 57's?) being painted Argent after a certain
date. I KNOW that all 58 DeSoto headlight nacelles were Argent (they had been P&A
black or body color in 57), and I have clear memory of a 58 Belvedere sedan with
Argent wheels. Anyone else remember these discussions ?
One thing I really dig about the 58 Plaza is the super cheap looking Argent-painted
steel tail light bezels.
I am sure digging these photos you guys are coming up with. So refreshingly UN-
Christine ! 
Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2011-06-04 11:46 AM
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Expert
Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | Here are some more photos I found from the early '60s.
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Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
From what has been discussed before/now I don't think you/we will ever know for sure what
was done and when - what "look" do you like the best ? It's an easy change from argent to
body color so in the respect you are lucky - do what you think looks the best - I vote for the
argent look due to the fact a lot of cars that keep the steel wheel/hubcap look go the body
color route - again, you could change them back and forth at will . . .
You could always put the magnum 500's on it
AND isn't funny how "us" "wierdos" never get tired of seeing old pics of these AWESOME cars ! ? ! ? ! ?
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 449
Location: jersey | I happen to be painting my wheels body color with dog dishes, because i HATE full wheel covers, and i like the dog dish look. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 449
Location: jersey | It could also depend on build date. My car is an early '58, as it has some '57 touches, such as the way the horns were mounted. |
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Expert
Posts: 2932
Location: Lemoore CA | I would paint them body color, your not going to loose the "cheap" look that the dog dishes will provide. I may have a set of dog dishes around here as I was planning to put them on my 58plymouth when I had it. |
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Veteran
Posts: 225
Location: Michigan | Just forget the whole thing and put 24 inch spinning chrome wheels on it! (imagine a vomiting emoticon here) |
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Location: Parts Unknown | This may very well be the same 58 Savoy 4HT. Not a very good shot, but those look
to be dog dishies ??
 (58PS4drHT.jpg)
 (plymouth1958P.jpg)
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58PS4drHT.jpg (63KB - 98 downloads)
plymouth1958P.jpg (50KB - 100 downloads)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 449
Location: jersey | mine
 (267412_2010717545856_1181266261_31935530_3831077_n.jpg)
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267412_2010717545856_1181266261_31935530_3831077_n.jpg (85KB - 107 downloads)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 520
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado | Doctor DeSoto - 2011-06-04 2:28 AM
Thanks to douchebags spending work hours watching Youtube, it is blocked by IT here in AFG.
I know this is going to be an obscure reference because there are only six of us 58 Plymouth
owners not making them into Christines, and only two of us going with original dog dishies, so
everyone reading this is rolling their eyes and thinking "Paint it red and f!ck those dog dishies!"
But I was hoping someone out there had documentary evidence saying what was what. It has
always been my desire to have that matching color wheel look, and I would not have questioned
this being stock, if it were not for my car having all five wheels painted Argent. Now I am questioning
my observations over the years.
Several cars come to mind ... a 60 Savoy with blue wheels on a blue car, a 59 Savoy with white
wheels on a turquoise car, and a 56 with the same light green as my car on both wheels and body.
I *want* to remember the original buzzard puke green Plaza that inspired my search for this car as
having body colored wheels ... or perhaps white ? But it was under a a pile of three-four cars and
was pretty well mashed down over the wheels, as well as being a long-term wrecking yard car in a
wet and rusty climate. Beyond that, I just have no solid memory of a 57 or 58 with dog dishies.
Seems they always had full face wheel covers !
Heh you can make that 7 not turning it into christine, that said im pretty sure im running moons. My belvedere had wheels that were painted black on the rear (the fronts were missing along with the spindles) and it was parked after 8 years of service. I imagine they were painted black to match my roof, though copper would have been cooler. I suppose it didn't matter what color they were anyhow since it had full covers from the factory.
Edited by Chrispy 2011-06-30 9:09 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 520
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado | 58sportsuburban - 2011-06-30 6:20 PM
mine
Oh snap, is that copper glow? I haven't seen too many pics of those! Nice car! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 449
Location: jersey | That's as close to copper glow as we could get with modern paint. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 520
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado | 58sportsuburban - 2011-06-30 7:30 PM
That's as close to copper glow as we could get with modern paint.
Really, hmm i was afraid that it would be hard to match. Is the difference huge? My car was originally copper glow and black, I found a few good areas of original paint and i dig the pink to orange change it went through. Do you have a picture of your car taken in full sunlight? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 449
Location: jersey | I'll take some pics this weekend. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | DR as a zit & pre zit kid hanging around the Dodge-Ply garage when these cars were new & slightly used, I can say 58 small hub cap cars were argent! Thank you saving us from another christine. My favorite color was red but OD'd on it. There were so many interesting colrs & combos thru 57-59. Oh well, imaginination is DEAD
We went thru this discussion before however it may have pertained to Dodge Brothers.
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7806
Location: Williams California | Having had over 100 '57-'59 Plymouths come in the yard over the years, most have had argent wheels, although many of the wagons had black painted wheels. The majority of the cars with body color wheels I have had were repainted at one time.
I remember that discount paint shops like Earl Scheib would include painting the wheels body color for free, all through the sixties and seventies, so old photos are not an accurate template to judge this on, unless in the first year or two of the car's existence.
---John |
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Expert
Posts: 4036
Location: Connecticut | Copper Glow is very difficult to photograph accurately, possibly because it's a metallic color and will change depending on the light.I think a lot of folks may have ordered a copper glow car, thinking that it looked like the ad featuring two copper glow Plymouths, with a guy in a white windbreaker jacket. The color in the ad is orange-brown, which looks great in the picture. It's actually a pink-like color, similar to a freshly minted penny. I imagine the original baked super-enamel paint would fade to an orange-brown as the car aged, similar to the way a penny tarnishes from use. Ron
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9647
Location: So. Cal | I have a March 1958 copy of "Car Life" magazine. In it is a short blurb about Plymouth wheel colors:
"PUZZLE SOLVED: You might have noticed that the color of the outside wheel surface of some '57 Plymouths was aluminum instead of black. Depends on which plant assembled the car as to color used."
So they were confused about it even in 1958. But it seems that silver or black were the two colors used - at least in 1957. |
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Expert
Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | Here is a brand new '57 Plymouth with body color wheels.
 (285896587_1362313970943590_2832734459598893645_n.jpg)
 (287421309_812355886408764_4937225111143264466_n.jpg)
Attachments
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285896587_1362313970943590_2832734459598893645_n.jpg (50KB - 61 downloads)
287421309_812355886408764_4937225111143264466_n.jpg (51KB - 64 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1223
Location: Ramona, CA | I can't say for certain for all the 1950s cars but the last year body colored wheels were on Chrysler product cars with dog dish caps was late in 1970. That was the period when Chrysler was trying to universalize as many components as possible and simplify the production line. Fewer cars came with dog dish caps so it would have been much easier to just have black wheels for everything. Probably also helped to upsell wheel covers as well. |
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Body Color Wheels ?
