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Location: Parts Unknown | Thou hast openeth thee proverbial "can o' worms" !
Do we count every last variation, like lottery numbers ... How many 56 Royal two-door sedans were
built with red roof, green, mid-body, and white lower body, up-grade Canadian interior, right-hand drive,
V-8 with 4bbl, red spark plug wires with black lettering, gum wrapper tossed in under the rear seat,
tinted glass, blackwall tires, full wheelcovers, fullcarpeting in brown, no backup lights, visor vanity mirror,
Powerflite, dual exhaust, radio delete, heater, rubber steering wheel, &c, &c, &c, .........
This is why I suggested just basic every-day models and leave all the specialty cars to a different status.
But that's just me ....  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1053
Location: Ny | If the D501 were granted their own specific body #, then I would indeed consider it separate from the Coronet. This was the same point that I was trying to make about the Coronado, however we do not have a production number for it to "make the cut" on the list. |
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Expert
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Location: Vancouver, BC | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-12-29 12:31 AM
Thou hast openeth thee proverbial "can o' worms" !
Do we count every last variation, like lottery numbers ... How many 56 Royal two-door sedans were
built with red roof, green, mid-body, and white lower body, up-grade Canadian interior, right-hand drive,
V-8 with 4bbl, red spark plug wires with black lettering, gum wrapper tossed in under the rear seat,
tinted glass, blackwall tires, full wheelcovers, fullcarpeting in brown, no backup lights, visor vanity mirror,
Powerflite, dual exhaust, radio delete, heater, rubber steering wheel, &c, &c, &c, .........
This is why I suggested just basic every-day models and leave all the specialty cars to a different status.
But that's just me ....
Nope. The list I provided, for example, shows make/series/body style as recorded by Chrysler. No information on body colour, transmissions, engine compartment decoration, tires, heater, radio (no FWL car could be ordered with radio delete - only a selection of "radio" was optional), or any other option. Engines only come into play when Chrysler takes note of it in the model number, such as a Coronet hardtop - 302 for the 6 and 312 for the V8. That is the way Chrysler counted them up. Chrysler did not record how many Coronets had a 361, 383 4-bbl (DeSoto Fireflite engine) or D-501. Those engines were not specified in the model number and thus were not recorded in production by body style.
In the cases of the Coronado and D-500, no special model numbers were used. There was an option code, or codes, that could be used to confirm whether the car was built as a Coronado or D-500, but no unique model number.
And as long as any Coronado, Seville, D-501, Silver Special, Texan, Ohioan, etc. does not have a unique model number, it should not be included in the list.
A separate list for engine options, trim options, etc., fine.
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Expert
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Location: Vancouver, BC | Highball57 - 2010-12-28 11:40 PM
I have used the info for years contained in the "Red Book, National Used Car Market Reports," and have them going back to 1926.
Look at the bottom of page 51 and you'll see the D501 listed as a Model (D501), with a breakout of Motor Numbers, and two body styles;
don't know why the 2drht is absent. The D501 listing continues at the top of page 52 with its unique engine specs.
Throughout the '56-'58 Dodge listing of this Sept., 1960 issue, you'll see the D500 referred to as an engine option, to be considered like
power steering, auto trans, etc. Car companies sent this data to Red Book, NADA, Kelley, etc., for use by dealers, law enforcement,
insurance companies and more, and that data is generally irrefutable. Taking Horace's NADA listing a step further, if Dodge listed the D501
with a Model designation in these period publications, then it's more than a mere engine option; it's a separate model.
Note on the right of the D501 listing it states, "Began Mar, 1957" and all other Models, "Began Oct, 1956."
TG
It's nice that the various used car guides called the D501-equipped cars model D-501 instead of D66, but CHRYSLER did not. A car equipped with the D501 engine were called, and recorded as, D66.
And as Chrysler did not issue a special model number for the cars equipped with the D-501 option, Chrysler did not record separate figures for these models on their production by body style reports.
Thus all D501 models should be considered an engine option or package.
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | The 1955 "-4" models were not offered as V8 models, only 6 cylinder. From 1955 through 1957 Plymouth and its related Dodge / DeSoto models had different model numbers for 6 and 8 cylinder models. Which is why they were included. If the "-4" models came as 6 and V8 versions, I would have considered the combined totals in selecting the lowest production models.
I do not have a breakdown of 6 and V8 production for the 1956 and up models, but I do for the 1955 Plymouth. And only the P26-4 had models with production less than 1,000. There were no P27-4 models.
So the P26-4 models remain on the list.
I included the DeSoto taxi models for their uniqueness. The interiors were not the same as the regular Firesweep models as they were taxi models. I have yet to come across a photo so I do not yet know if the trim was simpler on the Taxi as opposed to the regular Firesweep.
The surprising thing is that the Taxi models use the same model numbers as the V8 versions. The 1958 Taxi is model LS1-T as opposed to LS1-L for the regular Firesweep models. You would think Chrysler would have called it LS0-T, just as they did for the body number for the Coronet 6 in 1959.
Edited by Chrycoman 2010-12-29 1:23 AM
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Location: Parts Unknown | Bill,
From a technical, FACTORY perspective, your logic in application rules.
I just see it from the perspective of what you saw on the street (or wrecking yard), and while the
factory angle offers eleventy-thousand variables and contingencies, I tend to simplify things down to
just basic models. My poor brain goes into meltdown with so many exceptions and sidenotes !  |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Bill, you are just flat incorrect, about referring to the D501's as being 'another' Coronet model.
All people are the same species, too. No special models there, either.
A customer could not order-up a D501 engine in any other model, except as a standard equipment item in a D501,
which was a complete chassis-engine package which included Imperial steering knuckles and wheels and brakes.
The engine was a highly modified Chrysler 354 c.i. 300B, with 300 C carburetors and with 354 Dodge Hemi truck exhaust
manifolds.
Like I said, in addition to the American Manufacturer's Specifications sheets which were put out to homologate the D501's
unique equipment, for (theoretical, as it turned out) NASCAR purposes, Dodge also provided the D501 with unique BDY
codings, to differentiate it from any other Coronet model.
Dodge "had" to give the D501 a marketing brand-name, so, Coronet was the only choice, as being the basis for the creation of the D501 race cars.
The D501 was NOT an engine-only option, like the D500's were, available on any car model.
Besides, if this "list" is going to recognize a Matador 2-dr sedan, or sum-such, then, the 501's should be broken out into their 10 hardtop, 23 convertible and 69 sedan iterations.
Edited by d500neil 2010-12-29 9:44 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Here is how I would suggest we further organize Bill's list. I threw out the six-cylinder Belvederes because they open up all of that engine stuff that wasn't part of the original question. Someone made the point that 2-seat and 3-seat wagons are strange because they are basically an optional seat and I agree - so I put them at the end except for the 1960 Dart Phoenix, the 1959 DeSoto Fireflite, and the 1958 DeSoto Fireflite because no matter whether you have two or three seats, production totals are still under 1,000. Take a look:
RAREST FORWARDLOOK PASSENGER CARS BY MODEL AND BODY STYLE
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 51
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 82
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 97
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door limousine - 127
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door convertible - 140
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door limousine - 175
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door convertible - 191
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-S : 300-F 2-door convertible - 248
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 283
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 286
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 299
1957 DeSOTO - S26A : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 300
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon - 320
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : 300-G 2-door convertible - 337
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 429
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 474
1957 DeSOTO - C76 : 300-C 2-door convertible - 484
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 501
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 510
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 2-door convertible - 512
1958 DeSOTO - LS2-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 519
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 538
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door hardtop 550
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible 555
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 556
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 576
1959 DeSOTO - MS2-L : Firesweep V8 2-door convertible - 596
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 602
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door hardtop - 618
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 618
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 622
1955 DeSOTO - S22 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 625
1956 DeSOTO - S23 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 646
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 666
1958 IMPERIAL - LY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 675
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 692
1958 DeSOTO - LS1-L : Firesweep 2-door convertible - 700
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 704
1955 DeSOTO - S21 : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 775
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-L : Custom 2-door hardtop - 889
1957 IMPERIAL - IM1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 911
1961 DeSOTO - RS1-M : 2-door hardtop - 911
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 927
1955 CHRYSLER - C68 : New Yorker DeLuxe 2-door convertible - 946
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 961
1960 CHRYSLER- PC3-S : 300-F 2-door hardtop - 964
1959 DODGE - MD3-H : Custom Royal 2-door convertible - 984
1956 DeSOTO - S24 : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 996
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 999
OTHER PRODUCTION RARITIES
1955 IMPERIAL - C69 : Custom 2-door convertible - 1
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 2
1960 DODGE - PD1-L : Matador 2-door sedan - 2
RAREST STATION WAGONS BY SEAT CONFIGURATION
1961 DART - RD3/4-L : Seneca 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 68
1961 PLYMOUTH - RP1/2-L : Savoy 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 74
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 122
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 198
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 271
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 318
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 428
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 433
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 444
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 564
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 609
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 624
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 671
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 676
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 751
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 760
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 775
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 791
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 837
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 862
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 908
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 934
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 992
Edited by Lancer Mike 2010-12-30 5:40 PM
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Location: Vancouver, BC | d500neil - 2010-12-29 9:39 PM
Bill, you are just flat incorrect, about referring to the D501's as being 'another' Coronet model.
All people are the same species, too. No special models there, either.
A customer could not order-up a D501 engine in any other model, except as a standard equipment item in a D501,
which was a complete chassis-engine package which included Imperial steering knuckles and wheels and brakes.
The engine was a highly modified Chrysler 354 c.i. 300B, with 300 C carburetors and with 354 Dodge Hemi truck exhaust
manifolds.
Like I said, in addition to the American Manufacturer's Specifications sheets which were put out to homologate the D501's
unique equipment, for (theoretical, as it turned out) NASCAR purposes, Dodge also provided the D501 with unique BDY
codings, to differentiate it from any other Coronetk model.
Dodge "had" to give the D501 a marketing brand-name, so, Coronet was the only choice, as being the basis for the creation of the D501 race cars.
The D501 was NOT an engine-only option, like the D500's were, available on any car model.
Besides, if this "list" is going to recognize a Matador 2-dr sedan, or sum-such, then, the 501's should be broken out into their 10 hardtop, 23 convertible and 69 sedan iterations.
Well, we got two problems. The used car guides being used as proof the D501 models were separate from the Coronet list two body styles - 2-door sedan and 2-door convertible. Yet your production figures show three body styles were offered, the third being the 2-door hardtop.
For years now I have been reading about how the D-501 was a separate line with unique BDY codes. Yet no one has actually mentioned the codes. So, to solve problem #2, below are the body styles for the Coronet and the D-501. If you could be so kind as to fill in the blanks we can end this discussion once and for all -
D66 : Coronet V8
2-door sedan - BDY : _____
4-door sedan - BDY : _____
2-door hardop - BDY : _____
4-door hardtop - BDY : _____
2-door convertible - BDY : _____
D501 : Coronet V8
2-door sedan - BDY : _____
2-door hardop - BDY : _____
2-door convertible - BDY : _____
Thank you.
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Location: Parts Unknown | Chrycoman - 2010-12-31 7:51 PM
My Hermburkler guide shows the following:
D66 : Coronet V8
2-door sedan - BDY : _2201____
4-door sedan - BDY : _3104____
2-door hardop - BDY : _906____
4-door hardtop - BDY : _5____
2-door convertible - BDY : _QR7____
D501 : Coronet V8
2-door sedan - BDY : _2112____
2-door hardop - BDY : _56____
2-door convertible - BDY : __OB1___
Thank you.
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Veteran
Posts: 119
| What is a Hermburkler Guide?
Just curious,
TG |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 475
Location: Las Vegas, NV | Highball57 - 2011-01-19 5:48 AM
What is a Hermburkler Guide?
Just curious,
TG
It's a guide on how to steal hamburgers. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1053
Location: Ny | Rabble, Rabble! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 496
| If any of you actually owned a '57 D-501, you wouldn't care about any of this.
Let's start a new thread based on who has earned the tallest trophy at a car show!
Aaron |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 496
| Oh.. nothing... just getting back on topic.  |
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Location: The Mile High City | herburkler guide = no such thing. I think Doc was answering the unanserable question.
Joakim pointed out a typo on the list (thank you):
RAREST FORWARDLOOK PASSENGER CARS BY MODEL AND BODY STYLE
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 51
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 82
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 97
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door limousine - 127
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door convertible - 140
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door limousine - 175
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door convertible - 191
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-S : 300-F 2-door convertible - 248
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 283
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 286
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 299
1957 DeSOTO - S26A : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 300
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon - 320
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : 300-G 2-door convertible - 337
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 429
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 474
1957 CHRYSLER - C76 : 300-C 2-door convertible - 484
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 501
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 510
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 2-door convertible - 512
1958 DeSOTO - LS2-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 519
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 538
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door hardtop 550
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible 555
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 556
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 576
1959 DeSOTO - MS2-L : Firesweep V8 2-door convertible - 596
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 602
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door hardtop - 618
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 618
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 622
1955 DeSOTO - S22 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 625
1956 DeSOTO - S23 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 646
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 666
1958 IMPERIAL - LY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 675
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 692
1958 DeSOTO - LS1-L : Firesweep 2-door convertible - 700
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 704
1955 DeSOTO - S21 : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 775
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-L : Custom 2-door hardtop - 889
1957 IMPERIAL - IM1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 911
1961 DeSOTO - RS1-M : 2-door hardtop - 911
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 927
1955 CHRYSLER - C68 : New Yorker DeLuxe 2-door convertible - 946
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 961
1960 CHRYSLER- PC3-S : 300-F 2-door hardtop - 964
1959 DODGE - MD3-H : Custom Royal 2-door convertible - 984
1956 DeSOTO - S24 : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 996
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 999
OTHER PRODUCTION RARITIES
1955 IMPERIAL - C69 : Custom 2-door convertible - 1
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 2
1960 DODGE - PD1-L : Matador 2-door sedan - 2
RAREST STATION WAGONS BY SEAT CONFIGURATION
1961 DART - RD3/4-L : Seneca 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 68
1961 PLYMOUTH - RP1/2-L : Savoy 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 74
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 122
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 198
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 271
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 318
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 428
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 433
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 444
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 564
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 609
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 624
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 671
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 676
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 751
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 760
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 775
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 791
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 837
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 862
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 908
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 934
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 992 I saw in another thread that there was some discussion about Canadian Windsors in 1958 with crowns versus lions on the exterior and different interiors. It seems like those are still the same model and body style, so I don't know if they would fit. I also saw some export Firedome numbers listed in the Chrysler production figures, but I don't think they would fit on the list.
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Veteran
Posts: 204
Location: canandaigua, ny | the rarest..... ive only scene one my 1956 suburban...just because its mine and i LIKE it 
Edited by wild440 2011-01-19 6:56 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 119
| There are some pics taken in 2003 of a D501 Coronet with a BDY of 2442. It's the Lee Smith car that's in the Rare Pics thread.
TG
Edited by Highball57 2011-01-19 7:24 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | So is a BDY code 2442 for this D501 (very nice BTW) any different than the BDY code for a run-of-the-mill Coronet club coupe?
What were the production numbers for '56 Dodge Suburban 2-door wagons?
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-01-20 3:17 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 119
| The BDY code for a Coronet 2dr sedan remains to be revealed, and since I don't have one out back,
maybe someone with such a car will come forward and provide it. 
TG |
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Regular
Posts: 78
Location: Orland Ca | Here's one I haven't seen mentioned as far as names.....How many 59 Desoto Seville's were produced?
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Location: Parts Unknown | Lancer Mike - 2011-01-20 3:36 PM
hermburkler guide = no such thing. I think Doc was answering the unanserable question.
*****************************************************
Yeah, ... pretty much.
Tentatively optimistic, defining the undefinable since whenever. OK.
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Location: The Mile High City | I think we missed (at least) one:
1958 De Soto Adventurer hardtop 350
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-07-18 4:11 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | RAREST FORWARDLOOK PASSENGER CARS BY MODEL AND BODY STYLE
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 51
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 82
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 97
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door limousine - 127
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door convertible - 140
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door limousine - 175
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door convertible - 191
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-S : 300-F 2-door convertible - 248
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 283
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 286
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 299
1957 DeSOTO - S26A : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 300
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon - 320
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : 300-G 2-door convertible - 337
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 350
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 429
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 474
1957 CHRYSLER - C76 : 300-C 2-door convertible - 484
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 501
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 510
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 2-door convertible - 512
1958 DeSOTO - LS2-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 519
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 538
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door hardtop 550
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible 555
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 556
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 576
1959 DeSOTO - MS2-L : Firesweep V8 2-door convertible - 596
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 602
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door hardtop - 618
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 618
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 622
1955 DeSOTO - S22 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 625
1956 DeSOTO - S23 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 646
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 666
1958 IMPERIAL - LY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 675
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 692
1958 DeSOTO - LS1-L : Firesweep 2-door convertible - 700
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 704
1955 DeSOTO - S21 : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 775
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-L : Custom 2-door hardtop - 889
1957 IMPERIAL - IM1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 911
1961 DeSOTO - RS1-M : 2-door hardtop - 911
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 927
1955 CHRYSLER - C68 : New Yorker DeLuxe 2-door convertible - 946
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 961
1960 CHRYSLER- PC3-S : 300-F 2-door hardtop - 964
1959 DODGE - MD3-H : Custom Royal 2-door convertible - 984
1956 DeSOTO - S24 : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 996
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 999
OTHER PRODUCTION RARITIES
1955 IMPERIAL - C69 : Custom 2-door convertible - 1
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 2
1960 DODGE - PD1-L : Matador 2-door sedan - 2
RAREST STATION WAGONS BY SEAT CONFIGURATION
1961 DART - RD3/4-L : Seneca 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 68
1961 PLYMOUTH - RP1/2-L : Savoy 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 74
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 122
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 198
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 271
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 318
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 428
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 433
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 444
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 564
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 609
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 624
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 671
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 676
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 751
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 760
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 775
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 791
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 837
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 862
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 908
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 934
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 992
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Location: Parts Unknown | I like your breakout above. It more accurately represents the crazy-weird ones and puts the
wagons in their unique seating breakdown.
Now what about a 56 NY'er wagon in monotone grey WITHOUT the bolt-on fins, red leather, A/C.
PS, PB, PW, and blackwalls with spinner hubcaps ?
Nice work.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: Pau, S-W France | Found here http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/archive/index.php/t-9823.... about the (export) 1959 Diplomat Adventurer: The only figures I have by body style are for the 1959 Diplomat Adventurer - fourteen 2-door hardtops and eight convertibles. All were built in Detroit and all had V8 engines. The Diplomat Adventurer (and the Dodge Kingsway Lancer) are Sport Fury with Desoto or Dodge front end
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Location: Parts Unknown | Hehehehe !
The limited production export market stuff needs a whole book unto itself with different
chapters for each country's special build. So, who wants to volunteer to compile that data ?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
Location: Finger Lakes NY | ive heard different numbers on the 59 sevilles id love to know actual numbers personally
currently i know of 3 firesweep sevilles and 2 firedome sevilles
i have a firedome seville 2drhtp that im slowly restoring and the other firedome seville was a 4drhtp that was in a pa junkyard |
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Location: The Mile High City | From what I understand from Bill, those export models may actually be accounted for within the production numbers for other models as "ckd" or complete knock-downs. For example, a 1958 Dodge Mayfair two-door hardtop may have been included within the Plymouth Belvedere two-door hardtop production numbers as a complete knock-down. Also, the Ghia limousines may have been included in the Imperial production numbers as ckd two-door hardtops, although they have a much better history of tracking and recording than the Diplomats, Mayfairs, Regents, etc.
Yes, Jeff - Sevilles, Coronados, St. Regis, Texans (?) etc. may have a spot on the list although it would take someone actually going through all of the Chrysler Historical records to determine how many were built and extract those from the Firedomes, Fireflites, etc. That may be possible for Sevilles and Coronados, but at some point - you get into Texans and Spring Specials where even the Chrysler Historical records may not be able to tell the whole story since they shipped out boxes of trim to dealers...
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-07-19 11:31 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | Somebody enlighten me on those Darts. Joakim had a question about them. Are the Darts really a separate make from Dodge in '60 and '61? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | 1957 D501 verts; at least 24 known
1957 D501 sedans; at least 70 known
1957 D501 hardtops; at least 4 known
By extrapolation, from at least 102 built: 4 car types not yet found in CHS build records.
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Location: Parts Unknown | Neil,
You need to be more clear in your statement above. Are these "known" to have been built ?
Or are they "known" to survive ? I kinda doubt it is the latter, but it would be prudent to be
very clear in such statements, as we all know how things get misread and "become fact" with a
couple repeats !
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | Pre 1960 Dodge dealers generally sold Ply. It was decided in 1960 top offer the Dodge Dart which only Dodge Dealers would sell as a competitor to Chev, Ply, & Ford. They were offered as low priced Seneca vs Biscayne & Savoy & Custom. Pioneer priced with Belair Fairlane & Belvedere. Pheonix the top name plate was pitted vs Galaxie, Impala or Fury. The Darts were similar in wheelbase to Ford Chev Ply with competing body styles offered. The styling is similar but not the same as Polara or Matador however many body panels were shared or perhaps better stated rear qtr were totally diff. 60 & 61 Darts were full sized cars which changed to a compact Name in 63. My car is A 60 Dodge Dart Pheonix D500.
The 60 Dart was tremendously successful. I believe the car was totally built out to capacity. I remember in our town people traded 59 Chevs, Fords, Pont, & Olds for the new Dodges. The Darts were 118wb the big Dodge 122wb |
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Member
Posts: 44
| the 55 desoto coronados are indeed rare. I owned one about 8 years ago. I bought it for 100 bucks as a parts car. it was in pretty good shape and complete minus the engine/trans. Even had a title. Now I wish I wouldnt have parted it out and scrapped it. I did also own a 61 Chrysler New Yorker Convertible. so being only 25 years old and owned 2 cars on the list, I feel pretty good. |
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Expert ,, George Passed away July 28th 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1295
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | According to the 300 Club International records, there are only 121 surviving 57 300C convertibles surviving.
George
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Location: Parts Unknown | According to Doctor DeSoto, there are six confirmed 58 Fireflite convertibles surviving, with 4 of them
no longer in the U.S.
Of course, this kind of declaration can never be construed to represent how many actually survive, as
the moment one does, another is discovered as it sits forgotten in a garage, or offered up on eBay. The
recent eBay 57 NY'er convertible would be a good example.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 452
Location: Southern California | Right on Doc! I suppose the cars that had the least amount of likeability were abandoned and crushed earlier than the higher selling, more popular models, like the Chyrslers mentioned above. 121 remaining!! That's a batallion!
According to the National Desoto Club membership roster, there are 6 '58 Firedome convertibles remaining. |
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Veteran
Posts: 254
Location: Austria, Vienna | 7 firedomes. I have 3 out of 7.:) |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Brent, of the at least 4 hardtop D501's that were built, two were at Daytona, Kiekaeffer had one built for him (on
a convertible frame, no less), and Darrell Davis had found another one in his CHS research; it's unclear if that car
was one of the Daytona prototypes, he overlooked obtaining its IBM card, because he didn't realize that that Engineering
Department car was an actual 501, because it was a HT model.
I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt, and calling that car (at least) the 4th hardtop built.
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Location: Parts Unknown | Gidman - 2011-07-25 11:41 AM
Right on Doc! I suppose the cars that had the least amount of likeability were abandoned and crushed earlier than the higher selling, more popular models, like the Chyrslers mentioned above. 121 remaining!! That's a batallion!
According to the National Desoto Club membership roster, there are 6 '58 Firedome convertibles remaining.
*****************************************************
You make a good point, Gary. Only fools like these ugly old DeSotos. Everyone else had the
good sense to either junk theirs or turn them into a 300.
I wasn't never that smart, ... obviously !
Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2011-07-25 12:02 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | So should I change the list to say "DODGE Dart Phoenix" instead of DART Phoenix?
or perhaps even "DODGE Phoenix" and drop the DART altogether?
That DART business is throwing me off! Is that accurate?
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-07-25 5:30 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | Dodge Dart Pheonix is correct, nothing to be thrown off about. The car is a smaller ie Fury Galaxie sized car. You might like to know they didn't say Dart on them except & only some on the glove box. They were never known formally as a Dart, they had Dodge in script on them. Very unlike the smaller Valiant which was a Valiant only not as a Ply Valiant, MORE CONFUSION |
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Location: The Mile High City | Thanks Horace - here is the updated list:
RAREST FORWARDLOOK PASSENGER CARS BY MODEL AND BODY STYLE
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 51
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 82
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 97
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door limousine - 127
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door convertible - 140
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door limousine - 175
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door convertible - 191
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-S : 300-F 2-door convertible - 248
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 283
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 286
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 299
1957 DeSOTO - S26A : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 300
1960 DODGE - PD3-4/H : Dart Phoenix 4-door wagon - 320
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : 300-G 2-door convertible - 337
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 350
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 429
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 474
1957 CHRYSLER - C76 : 300-C 2-door convertible - 484
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 501
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 510
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 2-door convertible - 512
1958 DeSOTO - LS2-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 519
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 538
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door hardtop 550
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible 555
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 556
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 576
1959 DeSOTO - MS2-L : Firesweep V8 2-door convertible - 596
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 602
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door hardtop - 618
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 618
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 622
1955 DeSOTO - S22 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 625
1956 DeSOTO - S23 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 646
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 666
1958 IMPERIAL - LY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 675
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 692
1958 DeSOTO - LS1-L : Firesweep 2-door convertible - 700
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 704
1955 DeSOTO - S21 : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 775
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-L : Custom 2-door hardtop - 889
1957 IMPERIAL - IM1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 911
1961 DeSOTO - RS1-M : 2-door hardtop - 911
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 927
1955 CHRYSLER - C68 : New Yorker DeLuxe 2-door convertible - 946
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 961
1960 CHRYSLER- PC3-S : 300-F 2-door hardtop - 964
1959 DODGE - MD3-H : Custom Royal 2-door convertible - 984
1956 DeSOTO - S24 : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 996
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 999
OTHER PRODUCTION RARITIES
1955 IMPERIAL - C69 : Custom 2-door convertible - 1
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 2
1960 DODGE - PD1-L : Matador 2-door sedan - 2
RAREST STATION WAGONS BY SEAT CONFIGURATION
1961 DODGE - RD3/4-L : Dart Seneca 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 68
1961 PLYMOUTH - RP1/2-L : Savoy 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 74
1960 DODGE - PD3-4/H : Dart Phoenix 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 122
1960 DODGE - PD3-4/H : Dart Phoenix 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 198
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 271
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 318
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 428
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 433
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 444
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 564
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 609
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 624
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 671
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 676
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 751
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 760
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 775
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 791
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 837
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 862
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 908
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 934
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 992
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-07-27 11:32 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | Dart Seneca please instead of Seneca DaRT PICKY PICKY
Thank You |
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Location: The Mile High City | Alright, Gerry - I was able to edit that one! Thanks - we do want accuracy after all!  |
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Veteran
Posts: 225
| I wouldn't consider any thing over 600 models produced as rare, also options dont make a model rare either (the option may be rare but not the model of the car) excluding being a convertible.
Convertibles should have there own model designation all to there own, as the cars are completely diffrent from production models in most cases with frame and body mods from one mfg to another.
Also Just because a car or an option is Rare doesn't make the car desirable or valuable.
There are no really good answers for most of this but there should be some rules applied wich could be applied from one mfg models to another while trying to answer the question.
Such as in example at least 500 models built to be considered a production vehicle, but less than say 700 total to be considered as being rare.
Anything less than 300 built should be considered special built and not included, anything from 301 to 499 considered special ordered. just an example.
As far as Finding out how many models survive today a registry needs to be created good luck getting owners to provide information.
57 New Yorker dual quad cars didn't make the list???? LOL!
.
Edited by Doright 2011-08-10 10:01 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | It is difficult to figure out a cut-off point. This list is arbitrarily cut-off at 1,000 units - which seems just as good as any other arbitrary number or place. Compared to '57 Plymouth Savoy sedan production at 153,093 units, all of these cars were (are) rare as hen's teeth.
Yes, I agree - none of this should imply any type of value judgement ('57 Plymouth Savoy sedans are glorious cars) - I just wondered one day what the rarest model and body style numbers were for all of the Forward Look cars together, which I think is an factually answerable question based on the production numbers that Chrysler puts out.
I think we have narrowed down on that question pretty well! However, there may be corrections or additions to the list and I hope we can ferret those out. |
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Expert
Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | Another one to add to the list would be a 1956 Imperial Convertible, with 3 made.
http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/news/hobby-news/1956_imperial_converti...
Apparently these were New Yorkers modified by George Barris, so not factory built:
http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1955/KTKeller/index.htm
Edited by christine-lover 2011-12-03 12:00 PM
 (Hershey 2011 111.jpg)
Attachments
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Hershey 2011 111.jpg (177KB - 375 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 3588
Location: Plymouth Spaceport | Doctor DeSoto - 2011-07-22 10:49 PM
Neil,
You need to be more clear in your statement above. Are these "known" to have been built ?
Or are they "known" to survive ? I kinda doubt it is the latter, but it would be prudent to be
very clear in such statements, as we all know how things get misread and "become fact" with a
couple repeats !
Oh come on "Doc"!,Most of us here are far too intelligent to simply accept something as fact simply because its been repeated several times!
Now I will go try and find a Hermburkler guide since I've heard its the final word on the production numbers for these vehicles.
Edited by 1960DesotoAdventurer 2011-12-03 1:51 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1115
Location: CA | Where in this list would a 57 Dodge CRL 4-dr Sed with the D500 be in this list? It's got to be a rare bird with far more conv and ht's built with that versus the sedan. Not implying value or desirability but rarity. |
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Rarest FL Cars by Model and Body Style
