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Location: Vancouver, BC | The Rambler Rebel was announced to the public in February, 1957. It was to have an AMC V8 (no mention of Hudson as Hudson no longer made their own engines) equipped with Bendix's Electrojector fuel injection system putting out 288 horsepower. Cost of the EFI was to be $375 with production to begin in March and deliveries to commence in May. The Rebel was painted silver metallic with a bronze-tone anodized aluminum side insert panel. Transmission choices were 3-speed manual (with or without overdrive) or Hydramatic.
"Motor Trend" raced one of the first Rebels at Daytona (reported in the April, 1957, edition) on the beach. The MT Rebel had the Nash-Hudson 327-cid V8 engine with a 9.5:1 compression, 4-bbl carb, dual exhausts and 255 horsepower. The Electrojector was now listed as an option. MT's Joe Wherry and the Rebel did the quarter mile in 18.32 seconds.
By the time the Rebel was being shipped to dealers, the Electrojector was no more. Suspect AMC had the same problems with it Chrysler would one year later, but being a smaller firm on the verge of bankruptcy AMC did not have the money to gamble on a possible marketing disaster.
GM was first with fuel injection on a US production car, having Rochester's mechanical system on the option list when the 1957 models were announced. It was offered on Chevy's 283-cid V8 and supposedly was also available on Canadian-built 1957 Pontiacs (they used Chevrolet engines).
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
  
Location: bishop, ca | ...Interesting that the Rebels were to have been built in March, as that is when (very-late, though) the d501's were
first built.
I wonder if either company realized that the 1957 NASCAR season began on 11/11/56, and, that racing teams (as
briefly-mentioned in Grady's Speed Age article) would have to be signed-up and organized by DEC/JAN in order
to achieve a significant racing result ?
There is always a certain amount of teething/breaking-in experience associated with any new organization (like: improve-
ments in the transmissions----THAT would be a real "racing-improves-the-brand" result; stronger trannies with better gear
ratios).
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Location: STL, MO | Chrysler Corp's 2 HEMI's pretty much laid the law down on "Racing improves the breed", nobody else is even close to thier direct and indirect contribution to racing in the US. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Chrycoman - 2009-12-27 1:38 AM
GM was first with fuel injection on a US production car, having Rochester's mechanical system on the option list when the 1957 models were announced. It was offered on Chevy's 283-cid V8 and supposedly was also available on Canadian-built 1957 Pontiacs (they used Chevrolet engines).
**************************************
The 57 Bonnevilles were injected, weren't they ?
Limited production (530?) convertible-only, 347 ...... or was it Tri-Power ?
Me memory is fuzzy on this one.  |
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Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan) | Brent.....
You are correct that fuel injection was an option on Bonnevilles. A SIMILAR system to the Chevrolet, in that it was a continuous flow spray nozzle system, but the manifolding and parts were not the same, not even looked similar.
It seemed to have more issues than the Chevy system, and low popularity doomed it to I think being a 2-year only offering. |
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Location: DFW, TX | Yes, 1957 Bonnevilles were offered only as fuel injected convertibles. The fuel injection was carried over for 1958, but as an option on the Bonneville line, which was now available as either a coupe or convertible. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Being a former GM'er, I thought the 57 was FI only, as well as ragtop only. But that Tri-Power set-up was confusing the old dog ! 
The 58 was a real behemoth. Poor Harley Earl. I can only imagine the sh*tstorm that must have gone on over at GM to produce the 58 cars after Exner kicked him between the eyes ! 
I'll bet it involved a whole lot of chainsmoking and swearing at the walls, not to mention subordinates !
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Location: Vancouver, BC | Doctor DeSoto - 2009-12-27 11:06 AM
Being a former GM'er, I thought the 57 was FI only, as well as ragtop only. But that Tri-Power set-up was confusing the old dog !
The 58 was a real behemoth. Poor Harley Earl. I can only imagine the sh*tstorm that must have gone on over at GM to produce the 58 cars after Exner kicked him between the eyes !
I'll bet it involved a whole lot of chainsmoking and swearing at the walls, not to mention subordinates !
You should see the designs Harley Earl had approved before his underlings saw the new 1957 Mopars. Earl was apparently away in Europe at the time and his assistant, Mitchell, started stripping the chrome off sides of the 1958 models. You think they were plastered in chrome when they went into production . . .
Earl was also working on the 1959 Olds, Buick and Cadillac models, using the 1957-58 bodies which actually dated back to 1948. The new 1959 models were a crash program and for the first time all makes were based on one basic body, with most sharing the front doors.
There was swearing and hair pulling, but it was not done by GM management at the subordinates. It was all aimed at Harley Earl who retired in 1958 after the 1959 models were being tooled for production, giving the public the impression the 1959's were Earl's babies.
Which I suspect is one reason styling heads since then retire before the age of 60 as a general rule. By then it seems you are getting too attached to the past and can't see the future. Remember Iacocca and the padded vinyl roof? Engel, Macadam and Gale all retired before they turned 60.
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Location: Seville, OH | d500neil - 2009-12-21 11:13 AM
Perhaps surprisingly.... (but not, really, considering that Dodge took its 501 production commitment
and actually built sell-able civilian-comfortable examples of them, after Dodge gave up on
backing any formal racing sponsorship-involvement, after Kiekaefer disbanded his own private team,
in late 1956/early 57).....virtually all of the 501's (except for Lee Smith's and a couple-few others) have
been found to have been relatively heavily/nicely optioned from the factory, including having tinted
sunvisors, rear window defoggers, Custom Coronet interiors, radios, and, of course, heaters
(Lee's race car has no heater or power brakes).
As above mentioned, they all have manual steering and manual trannies.
Neil, the article could easily be in error, but the article on "Sonny Benson's" D-501 convertible (MCG 9/1991) states that it is a Torqueflite. Dave |
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Location: Vancouver, BC | d500neil - 2009-12-24 1:57 PM
AND, something else, from my 501 file...
....
American Motors[???!!] is plotting a new super-powerful model that may surprise the track crowds this summer [never happened--].
The car will be named the Rebel (after Frank Mundy?), the car will be a Rambler with a Hudson motor souped by Bendix fuel-Injection [THERE'S that system, beyond the Chubbie's usage of it!].
....
The Bendix fuel-injection system was the same as used by Chrysler in 1958. AMC probably did some testing with the system and found it too unreliable for their financial situation (on the verge of bankruptcy). Thus the 1957 Rebel appeared with a 4-bbl carb mounted on AMC's 327-cid V8 engine, the engine used by Nash and Hudson in 1957.
And given the record of the Rochester system used by GM vs the Bendix system, I don't think "Chubbie" was too disappointed it was beyond their usage!
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Location: South central Idaho. | Had one many years ago. Coupe, Sent it East as had to many irons going at that time. Philly area. Around 82. No engine or trans. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | There are no photos, unfortunately, of the interior/dash board area of the 'Sonny Benson' D501, and Mopar Collector's Guide used second (third?-) hand information to prepare that article--which I understand/understood, back then, anyway, that they commonly did do, in ghost-writing their articles.
In other words, they used somebody else's information to flesh out their own article, as if they themselves had inspected a car and interviewed its owner.
In this instance, I did contact MCG in attempting to contact S. Benson, and received a very cold shoulder from whomever I spoke with, there, in 1991, who apparently believed that I was only interested in buying the car (why should HE have cared about that?) ; but, more importantly, I received the distinct understanding that MCG had no 1st hand knowledge about any contact information on Mr. Benson, and, that they had no additional detail information on the car or its current whereabouts.
Mr. Benson, being a former Corp Honcho, could very well have arranged to...(AND, if I recall the article.....DID) modify the car to have a T/Flite in it.
The A.M.A. specifications on the D501 state that the T/flite was optionally-available on the 501's, but, the fact remains that none of the 501's which survived have other than the 3-speed manual trannie in them.
I was going to say that none of the 90 D501s that Darrell Davis has located the IBM cards 'on' had T/Flite's....but, I'll contact him and ask him to verify the tranny-situation as listed on them.
Last time I 'spoke' to him, I think that he said that his 501 card copies were not kept at his house.
Edited by d500neil 2010-05-21 7:20 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ...Just heard back from Mr. Davis: ...ALL... of the 90-located 501's came OEM with the MANUAL transmission
(and, therefore, with manual steering, too, as there was not physical room to install the P/S gearbox along
with the 3-speed manual transmission, with the 354/392 engine)...in the 1957 Dodge, and almost-certainly in the
CHRY, too.
Edited by d500neil 2010-05-21 7:23 PM
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Location: MN | The Rebel's were a neat looking 4dr hdtp. I think the 57 Bonnivilles were available as a tri power ??? |
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Location: MN | Neil, with your connection to Davis could you please present what colors the D501s were Bulit as? I know you think in terms of # my brain relates to colors.
Yes, I know there is info on 92 and that is alot but. We had an always available red & white in our town in about 59. I saw a red & white @ Mopar Nationals w/ Ill plates oh so long ago. YOUR UP. Thank you |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | D501's were built in every OEM color scheme that was available.
Solids and 2-tones.
Seemingly, a lot of them were red/white, but I know of an all Moonstone Gray car (long-gone).
What's really interesting about them is the fact that so many of them had an array of options on them, including
rear window defrosters, and tinted sun visors.
Haven't seen any that had signal seeking radios, or power windows (power [front-] windows was available on
the 2-dr sedans, and the 2-dr Suburbans, which have quarter-windows that do not retract), or: A/C !
The red/white (former-real drag race car) that you remember seeing was originally ordered/bought by Arnie
Beswick, and sold to drag racer Lee Smith, around 1959--Lee still owns that car, and which, until the last several years, had been on-loan to the Don Garlits Racing Museum in FL.
Edited by d500neil 2010-05-22 3:49 PM
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Location: Nasco , SWEDEN | http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=0&nid=443&tab=list/view&ad=2376207
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Location: Seville, OH | I just talked to Chad about his 1957 Dodge sedan. He is a Packard and Studebaker man and doesn't know much about the Chryslers. It is not a Hemi. It looks solid but it has been outside for many-many years. The Desoto has sunk down but the Dodge seems to be off the ground. There is body damage on the right side. He is going to send me more pictures and do an underbody inspection. Dave |
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Location: Nasco , SWEDEN | David, it sure is a nice candidate for a "clone" D501 and build a junior stock Drag car |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | LOL, Morgan!!!!
...Do you know what the easiest/cheapest cost is, in owning a horse?
...The purchase price.
Do you know what the easist/cheapest cost/operation is, in cloning a D501?
Buying the body.
A D501 is extremely difficult to fake/clone/tribute/replicate, due to the immense amount of heavy duty equipment on it,
that mostly, but not exclusively, comes from a donor-1957 Imperial, plus a stationwagon, a 1956 Imperial, and misc/sundry
300-type engine compnents, a 354 truck Hemi, and then, there's the small matter of the VIN and P/T plates.
If someone were going to go thru 'this' much trouble, it would be nice if he was re-creating a particular car, due to the great
variance in the OEM equipment which was installed on the 501's.
A stripper 501 would certainly be a handful to drive around town (manual steering [all-] and brakes, and that horrible 3-speed [all-] ), when
coupled to that huge engine, and rock-solid suspension.
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Location: Seville, OH | I am actually cloning a D-501 with my current Coronet and I agree completely with Neil. It is not an easy task. After buying my Coronet many years ago I naively thought all I needed was a 300B engine which I bought for next to nothing. Then the more I learned about the 501, I realized a 501 engine really has little in common with a 300B engine. I am only using the heads and rotating assembly, everything else is different, coming from, as Neil mentioned, 300C and truck engines. The valve covers are unique to the 501 and I was fortunate enough to find a set. When I learned what the rest of a 501 really was, it was a bit discouraging but I decided I am in no hurry and I like the hunt for parts as much as driving it. I have a ways to go, but I have made a lot of progress on collecting parts. My engine is 90% there, needing only a Poly 354 block (I passed on an original, but damaged, 501 block). The point of no return came when I found an NOS trunk emblem. I figured if I could find that then I can find most everything else.
I hadn't considered cloning a particular car, but the idea is intriquing. I was makng mine a zero option stripper so if one of those 90 IBM cards is like that then that would be something I would consider. Dave
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Location: STL, MO | Other than the numbers is the block visually different? 90% there all you need is a block- that optimism! I am glad my 65 doesnt actually have a A-990 badge, the sectioned grille and scoop are racehemi only but to actually affix the emblem on there I would have grief with that and I would have to be dead-on correct,no artistic license (shortcuts), Dont get me wrong I am not razzing you I am hip deep in a "close" clone myself and it's not easy or cheap,there are alot of 65'Racehemi's out there so I can deviate, but you are out there virtually alone, I respect your tenacity to go all the way. You could try Ken Jack at Hemi's Unlimited on the truck or Poly block. |
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Location: Nasco , SWEDEN | Boys, i think i refrase my last statement to : a perfect candidate for a "LOOKALIKE" , what i meant by clone is a similar car with similar performace! not a nut and bolt replica! there are way to many of those outthere as it is (mostly 300s and convertibles)! hope we can get more pic´s to stare at
Edited by mogge65 2010-05-24 10:07 AM
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Location: Seville, OH | I haven't been able to do a side by side comparison of the various blocks. I have the 300B and a truck block but apparently they are machined differently for the oil sump pickup. I could probably make either of these blocks work, but for a bolt together setup, the 57-58 poly block is the one I should use. I am not really worried about finding one of those hence the 90%. I also should clarify, I want as close to a 501 as is reasonably achievable. I don't care about casting dates and doubt I will ever get down to the nut and bolt detail. Dave |
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Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan) | Swept57 - 2010-05-24 11:07 AM
I haven't been able to do a side by side comparison of the various blocks. I have the 300B and a truck block but apparently they are machined differently for the oil sump pickup. I could probably make either of these blocks work, but for a bolt together setup, the 57-58 poly block is the one I should use. I am not really worried about finding one of those hence the 90%. I also should clarify, I want as close to a 501 as is reasonably achievable. I don't care about casting dates and doubt I will ever get down to the nut and bolt detail. Dave
I think the big difference between the truck and pass car blocks was the rear main cap was thicker, so the oil pump sits lower in the sump, and this therefore neccesitates a longer intermediate shaft between the distributor drive gear and the oil pump drive shaft.
I know the truck timing cover isn't correct (cast iron like the earlier 51-54s) and the heads are obviously wrong.
The valve covers are the "no-name" type from a Dodge Truck, but less the "Power Giant" decals (but mechanical lifter type with "bumps"). Paint color unknown to me.
Question: Why is the 57-58 354 poly block the one to use for mockup, if the actual block has a different oil pan? I can see the block would not make a difference, but the actual pan on the block could for suspension/steering parts clearance......unless the pan only fits a truck block if the rear pan seal/main seal section is different. Then only a truck block/pan (or D501 pan if unique) would fit that rear mani cap. |
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Location: Seville, OH | The Windsor 354 Polys used the same oil pan as the 501. I have to admit, I haven't investigated this aspect thoroughly and I am relying on a guy that has been building early Hemi's for 40 years. That is one reason I haven't actual bought the poly block. I want to verify what he has told me.
I have seen a number of Dodge truck valve covers. None have had the bumps for mechanical lifters or the coil bracket welded to the driver's side cover. I suspect that some trucks had mechanical lifters, but I am pretty sure the coil bracket is 501 unique. To my knowledge the engines were painted the same color as the D500, so the valve covers would be red.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Right, the valve covers are red, and the engine is Corp-Silver.
Air cleaners are usually gloss black, but the car that was discovered recently in OR has air cleaners that have residual OEM WHITE paint all over them, and with RED paint around their interior areas---bizarre, but apparently OEM.
How far 'you' go in cloning a car depends on your diligence, and luck, as far as re-stamping the engine block, and
finding a date-cast-coded 354 engine block which would be close to the engine's (re-)stamping-number, and the car's VIN,
and the P/T plate information, and installing date coded 300C carburetors on it.
Also, owing to their limited production, there was a variance in their engine stamping protocols.
These would be the visual confirmations on the engine.
Internally, the engine would need a 300C crankshaft, and 300D (fuelie-) intake valves (1821241, at your local Parts
counter) and don't forget to scoop up these 1959 mufflers: 1943922, while you're there).
The Dodge truck valve covers came off of the D900 354 tractor, which featured dual 2-bbl carbs.
That engine block might serve as a basis for your build-up, but its heads are very restrictive, to provide for as
much low end torque as possible, so, they will not work, without considerable re-working of them.
The D900 will give you the 4-bolt exhaust manifolds, that any self-respecting clone must have on it.
Between Lee Smith's 501 and another one in SoCal (dunno about the 501 vert that is being restored, now, in the Frisco-area), there WAS some necessary modification on one of their oil pans (State secret), so, one of them probably got a truck oil pan, and the other one, a 354 car 'pan'.
Another very difficult to find piece(s) are the HD optional-Coronet/Royal torsion bars.---hint: go find a Taxi
or a Police Pursuit or a true Export car--maybe a HD-stationwagon; but that's probably a less-common find
than will be a Taxi/Pursuit/Export car.
The 7-leaf rear springs will be found on these cars, only, as the Dodges have a shorter leaf spring-length than do
the Des/CHY/IMP models, which might-will have 7-leafers be installed on them.
David forgot to mention the 1956 IMP donor car, that will have to provide its wheels, brakes and steering knuckles (with their oversize spindle diameters).
This whole procedure would probably be a lot easier if 'you' will just go out and buy a D501, on Ebay
or Craigslist.
Edited by d500neil 2010-05-24 3:12 PM
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Location: Seville, OH | d500neil - 2010-05-24 11:39 AM
This whole procedure would probably be a lot easier if 'you' will just go out and buy a D501, on Ebay
or Craigslist.
I looked at about a dozen but couldn't find one in the color I wanted so I decided to clone.
So the coil bracket is on the D900 valve cover? I've got most of the Imp stuff. Unfortunately its all back in Ohio but will make its way here when I am ready for it. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yeah, what you have there, in the photo, is the valve cover off of a 1957 Dodge D501, or, off
of a 1957-1959(??) D900 354 truck engine, or off of a 300B (which has had the 'Firepower'
embossments be removed from them).
I'd get started on those T/bars and leaf springs, before they go NS-1 .
Edited by d500neil 2010-05-24 3:43 PM
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Location: Seville, OH | Those valve covers are off of engine # D501-1021. I have 300B valve covers and they don't have a coil bracket.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | OOPS; what I was recalling is my close-up photo of a 1957 300C engine,
and it's coil bracket, which is brazed onto the valve cover.
I found my photo of the oil-bath Bat-Winged 300B engine, and sure-enuf:
the coil is mounted onto the passenger's side of the intake manifold.
You can (try-to; it's a complicated stamping) copy the shape of the 300C
coil bracket, to mount it onto a modified 300B driver's side valve cover.
Edited by d500neil 2010-05-24 5:43 PM
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Location: Seville, OH | Well, I won't have to go through that trouble because I own the valve covers in the picture.
A 300C crank? The 392 has a longer stroke than the 354. Did you mean 300B crank? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yeah, RTFSS--Read the F'ing Specs Sheets.
It's the 'standard' D501 camshaft that has the same grind, as the 300C, but, the camshafts do not interchange, as the 300C
is 5.09" long, and the 501 is 5.03" long, but, there is/was a more radical camshaft that was optionally available on the 501, just as
there is/was one for the 390HP 300C, but the AMA specs don't provide Duration/Overlap information on them, so it's kinda
hard to compare their aggressiveness-es...
So, you'll probably have to grind a 300B camshaft--altho I don't have its AMA Spec Sheets.
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Location: Seville, OH | OK, camshafts, but in your post above you said 300C crankshaft. |
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Location: Nasco , SWEDEN | http://www.flickr.com/photos/atomic_blondes/3710395878/in/photostre...  
Edited by mogge65 2010-05-24 9:06 PM
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Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan) | The crank has to be from a 354, as the mains are larger on the 392 as well as the increased stroke. I think what Neil is referring to is the special processing of the 300B/300C cranks with the nitriding as well as the rolled-fillets for the rod journals.
There is also the possibility that the cranks/rods/piston assemblies were picked for balance factor as well.
As for the camshafts, the 354s and 392 will not interchange due to the lobe seperation difference due to the raised deck versus low deck blocks.
So the camshafts would be unique due to this fact alone.
As for the standard versus optional 300B camshafts, you might speak with Chris Neilsen of Neilsen Cams in Farmington, Utah.
He has a depth of knowledge on these old engines, and also has produced new cam blanks, so he might be able to grind you an accurate replacement of potentially either lobe profile....
Neil....nice to know where the D501 valve covers were sourced. I heard when I was working at Chrysler from one of the engineers that worked on the Bendix Electrojector EFI program that the covers came from a Dodge Truck application, but never found out WHICH application it was. Obviously the the finishing for the engine was unique as to color scheme....
Also, David, I notice in the pictire of the D501 engine ID number that it looks like the timing cover is painted red. Is this what the originals were painted, as most of the Chrysler and DeSoto and Dodge engines I have seen had the timing covers, whether cast or stamped painted the Silver color of the rest of the engine. |
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Location: STL, MO | Did the NHRA ever factor the 354? or the 501? they go back to the 50's for chev for stock and S/S but I don't think for the MoPars and there are a few 55-57 chevs still competing at the US Nats every year...it would be good to give them some competition. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | That's Lee Smith's ride, in Morgan's photo.
Took a road trip with Lee to a Detroit WPC National Meet, in the early 90's, in this car--full manual former race
car, which was delivered with the 4.89 gear set in it.
Lee had installed the 2.93 'pig' in the car, so it didn't burn any rubber on the trip, but got over 17MPG on the
highway!
Yeah, the entire engine is painted 'silver', except for the valve covers, which are the Dodge-Red, as seen in Dave's photo.
As far as published articles on the D501 are concerned, the only one known to mankind is the 10/58 Rod & Custom,
which features the very nice article :"Revamped Ram".
In it, the owner (and /or the car, which i DID try to track-down, un-successfully, via the OR MVD) applied considerable
internal hot-rodding to the car (but, RETAINED its OEM .444-lift 300C equilavent-spec'ed camshaft), after boring
it to 365 c.i.), and replacing the trannie with a '37 Lasalle, which, itself, was further modified, to try to accommodate
all of its torque.
Anyway, the car was reportedly run at a Strip, but neither the trap speed, E.T., or the car's Classification was confirmed in the article.
Altho not confirmed in the article, I suspect that this car was of early production.
Arnie Beswick (original owner of Lee's car) reportedly preferred the performance of his 1956 D-500-1 race car, because, I believe, that he found that he could not put-down all of the 501's HP, to the pavement.
The 56 version was 'rated' at 295 HP---which, an OEM factory 3-speed could handle, starting off in 2nd gear, and shifting only once, with the 6.17 (?-IIRC) gear set.
...I just happened to re-read my comment, above here, about : "RTFSS"...and that comment was directed
to MYSELF, as an admonishment , so it should have said (to be perfectly clear)..."RTFSS, Neil...."
Edited by d500neil 2010-05-25 5:45 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1295
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN | I found this on "another Mopar site"International Christine Club I qoute: I bought and built this 57 Dodge BI (Before Internet). I went to wrecking yard in Tucson with friend to pick up a door for his project car and it was sitting at the very front of the yard and at a glance didn’t look too bad. A bit of rust in the rear quarters and rockers and a couple of dents but other than the carb and distributor missing it was complete. As my buddy was paying for the door I asked what they wanted for the old Dodge (figuring the answer would be quite a bit more than I was willing to pay, but I was curious).. I was told “two and a half” just to be sure I said “two hundred and fifty?” “Yup, and I do have a clear title on it.”
Anyway I went out took one more walk around it went back in and wrote a check.
After I got it home I picked up a 77 Chrysler New Yorker (440 powered) to use as a donor car. The first 2 things that got transplanted were the 440 (which I had to modify the pan on to make fit), Torqueflight (with a ratchet shifter) and 9 ¼” rear end which happed to have a 3.21 posi in it.
While I was parting out the 77 I noticed that the steering knuckles looked very close dimensionally to the front spindles on the Dodge (I believe this was before AAJ was doing disc brake conversions, but at any rate long before I had heard of Roger). A little bit of machine work on the spindles to convert them from large to medium ball joints and some trimming on tie rods etc and I had big front disc brakes.
The car would move under it’s own power and stop and it pretty much stayed that way until 1995 when I decided to finish it and drive I back to Illinois for my 25th High School reunion. After the decision was made to finish the car over the next 90 days (7 days a week) I repaired the rust in the quarters, put in new rocker panels and a couple of patches in the floor. I found and went thru a low mileage 1969 440 (10:1 compression) including the installation of a 390 HP Six Pac cam, and mated that to a 64 Torqueflight that I also went thru so I could run the pushbuttons. The rear springs were changed out for a set of Super Stock springs and a set of Chrysler Rally wheels were modified to accept the original 57 Dog Dish hubcaps. Just about the time I thought I had the motor done I found a 1957 dual quad intake at a swap meet (cheap), unfortunately it was for a B motor (350) and not an RB. After some research I figured out that I could use a set if spacer plates s that Mopar Performance was selling at the time for use with their stage VI heads (PN P5249189 which I don’t think is any longer available). Anyway they worked like a champ and I had dual quads which I dug up a pair of 57 air cleaner lids for. I painted the car back to a metallic gold and white and installed new tinted glass and upholstery. Electronic ignition, power steering, air conditioning and cruise control were also added.
I wouldn’t consider the car extremely quick (due mostly to the 3.21 gears and the design of the dual quad intake) but it was OMG FAST and made the 3000 mile round trip to Illinois and back without missing a beat (or too many gas stations LOL).
I had a lot of fun with the car for the 5 years I drove it after it was done, and probably would not have sold it if I hadn’t found my 57 Plymouth to build.
Last edited by Mike P on Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total
Edited by mogge65 2010-05-25 8:47 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1295
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN | I found this in "old" Forwardlook section.
Forward Lookers, While we ponder the prospect of the "392 Commando Plymouth,"
there are two articles on surviving D501 Dodges you may want to locate for
your enjoyment. First in "The Second Annual Hemi Muscle" 1996 by the editors
of High Performance Mopar, "D501 TO BEAT" features a 57 Coronet 2dr sedan
D501 with a three speed manual and no radio or heater, super Heavy Duty and
Super Rare. If that don't wind yer clock then check out the Sept. 91 Mopar
Collectors Guide- "Killing Mice With A Sledgehammer" -This article features
an original unrestored 57 Coronet D501 Convertible. Can You Say WOW! Owned by
a former Chrysler exec this car is rarely shown, its 354 Dual Quad Racing
Hemi is coupled to a Torqueflite (for us daily drivers the car also has a
heater). In 57 these cars were intended to "hit" the racing circuits but
without the likes of Carl Kiekhaefer and Lee Petty to campaign them, and
coupled with a factory ban on race promotion that hit Chrysler particularly
hard, it wasn't to be. Even though they lack the racing heritage I am sure
they would have eyes a poppin' at today's car shows. T
Edited by mogge65 2010-05-27 10:24 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The D501 to Beat is (now) Lee Smith's car.
The MCG article's convertible reportedly was owned by Sonny Benson at that time, reportedly a former Corp executive.
The MCG article, as I previously mentioned, was ghost-written, and there was not any other background info available
on either the car or its, or its owner's whereabouts, back in 1991.
I'd asked former Corp VP, and Historical Society researcher, Darrell Davis if he knew (of) Mr. Benson, and
got a negative response.
That 1991 article is the only published information on that vert, which is one of two still known to exist.
All of the D501's had OEM 3-speed manual transmissions, but a lot of them have heaters installed, including the
Special Ordered Kiekaefer 501 hardtop.
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Expert
Posts: 1295
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN | Swept57 - 2010-05-23 3:55 AM
I just talked to Chad about his 1957 Dodge sedan. He is a Packard and Studebaker man and doesn't know much about the Chryslers. It is not a Hemi. It looks solid but it has been outside for many-many years. The Desoto has sunk down but the Dodge seems to be off the ground. There is body damage on the right side. He is going to send me more pictures and do an underbody inspection. Dave Did you get any pic´s from Chad? |
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Regular
Posts: 62
| The 1955-56 Chrysler 300s had to compete in the NASCAR Grand National Division using the stock 280 degree cam. There were at least two optional camshafts released for the Dodge D500-1 Coronets during the 1956 season. Even though they had factory part numbers, they were not "factory" cams. Charlie Strang, using the cam profile checking machine and cam grinder at Kiekhaefer Corporation, created and evaluated all sorts of grinds for the Dodge racing engines. Chevy and Pontiac grinds were heavily tested in at least one D500-1 V8. Concerning the D501, Carl Kiekhaefer either took the engine (#KD501-1001) out of his 1957 D501 and built it up to racing engine specs or built up a new engine from scratch and designated it H22. In any event, he got a high of 369 hp out of the 354 cube V8 during dyno testing in the fall of 1957. I passed along many of the dyno testing highlights to Neil the other year. Carl later sold the D501 to Jack Leek. The car's last known whereabouts were Waukegan, Illinois in the early 1960s.
Mopar Collector's Guide editor Rob Wolf and I are trying to get Charlie Strang to come out to Chryslers at Carlisle this year and attend the Hall of Fame banquet. At 94 years old, Charlie still travels, but no longer drives. Both Carl Kiekhaefer and Charlie Strang are going to be 2015 Mopar Hall of Fame inductees for their groundbreaking contributions to Chrysler's stock car racing program during the mid-1950s.
Edited by 300XMAN 2015-05-02 4:25 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Karl; good old info, here; were/are you merely putting this thread, to 'bed' ?
At any rate, it's good that you confirmed/documented ANOTHER difference between the all-mighty
unique D501 car MODEL, and the lesser (performing, and built-up) 300B model.
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Posts: 62
| Neil,
As you know, much has been learned about ECK's D501 since 2012. Let's share some of the highlights from Carl's extensive dyno testing of his D501 engine:
Work commenced on 11/16/57. Engine aerohoned .004 piston clearance-Crossflow #1 camshaft-valves and pistons polished
10-1 Heads (97 cc) Block cut to .119 from top of piston to deck-using “57” intake manifold and “57” carter carbs 57 air cleaners
WH #40 oil. Timing set @8 degrees for break in NA 10 shorts .025 new upflow exhaust manafolds
New copper lead bearings throughout engine-full flow oil system
RL 50 plugs
New calibrated Dist.
Timing set @32 degrees @4000 best power setting manual
1.75 turns on high speed adj on carbs
Replace plugs different RL50s
Reset tappets hot .018 as engine H-21. Same cam
2.5 turns open on high speed adj on carbs
¾ turns open on high speed adj. on carbs.
½ turn open on high speed adj. on carbs.
Remove “57” carter carbs and install different set “57” carters.
“57” C-300 int man. Upflow Ex. man. “57” C-300 air cleaners
AUTO-LITE 2X3-new dist.
Best power setting manual 28 degrees @4000
Air cleaners removed
369 hp @ 5530 rpm on 11/22/57
{Intervening tests concerned primarily with mufflers and exhaust pipes—my note}
Run engine with stock C-300 exhaust manafolds and pipes
{302 hp @ 5425 rpm on 11/22/57; Similar variables through 12/12/57—my notes}
As of 2/25/58: Removed cam. Cannot install “57” cam in “56” engine because of change in block depth. Changes cam index—Bearings OK rings OK Replaced Cf #1 cam with stock 300 B cam “56”. “57” intake man. “57” carbs—upflow ex. man. with straight 3” pipe 4”x16.5” dual cleaner. Autolite 2X3 plugs new WH#40 oil—new oil filter.
NOTES: I edited the above as little as possible for clarity/readability. Cf #1=Iskenderian Crossflow #1 camshaft.
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Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | Interesting, he lost 67 HP when running through the stock exhaust. Does anyone have the specs. on that isky cam and is that .119 piston above the deck? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9665
Location: So. Cal | Please explain to me the motor components in detail. I can understand that the valve covers are of the truck variety & exhaust are 300C. That makes sense. But a truck block, heads, & water pump are completely different from the car components; and the pictures I have seen do not show a truck block, heads, & water pump. They look like a car block & heads from 1957. So why the talk about the truck oil pump??? The 354 poly oil pan is exactly the same as the 392 oil pan - center sump. Also, the 354 poly water pump & crossover are the same as the 392 which is what I see on these motors. Did the motor use a 354 poly block? If so, the only difference between a 354 poly block & 354 hemi block that I know of are the stamped number, casting numbers, and the pushrod hole reliefs in the poly block which would be unneeded and unseen with the hemi heads in place.
I have attached a 354 hemi truck motor for comparison. Notice the heads have no crossover, the wet intake manifold, large oil pan and the unusual water pump. This is not what I see in the 501.
Edited by Powerflite 2015-05-04 1:42 PM
 (354 Dodge Hemi Complete.jpg)
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354 Dodge Hemi Complete.jpg (33KB - 204 downloads)
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ALL of The D501's (102-ish pre-built RACE CAR models, which happened to be sold to the public....) were built OEM with
the 354 c.i. Dodge TRUCK exhaust manifolds.
The 501's have the 1957 Chrysler Windsor 354 c.i. engine blocks in them, because the 354 Windsor block was the only
one (354) that was readily available, at that time.
So, technically, there are very FEW...300-B components that were installed in the D501 racecar models.
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Regular
Posts: 62
| The pistons may have been even with the deck, but should not have been above the deck. I will have to look around and see if there are any published specs on the Isky cam. |
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Expert
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Location: Seville, OH | d500neil - 2015-05-05 1:45 AM
So, technically, there are very FEW...300-B components that were installed in the D501 racecar models.
From what I can tell, MAYBE the rotating assembly and the heads are the same as 300B. The 501 did have unique exhaust valves. In the near future I hope to do a side-by-side of the internal components of my 501 and 300B engines. And Neil is correct, the 501 used a Windsor poly block.
Edited by Swept57 2015-05-05 4:05 PM
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D-501
