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1958 DeSoto Data Tag
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2018-05-24 5:22 PM (#563981 - in reply to #563953)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: The Mile High City

Thanks, Ed!  That clears it up.  I was looking at Doc's plate and White's plate and thinking they did not make sense.

However, as you note, Fireflites and Adventures did not have a code number there because the sweep was standard.

 

So this tag should look like this car:

 



Edited by Lancer Mike 2018-05-24 5:54 PM




(Mikes Tag.jpg)



(1958 DeSoto Firedome Color Study.jpg)



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Lancer Mike
Posted 2018-06-09 5:48 PM (#564902 - in reply to #563981)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: The Mile High City

Here's the sedan that was recently for sale





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(21 reduced.jpg)



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Lancer Mike
Posted 2018-07-13 5:56 PM (#566559 - in reply to #564902)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000200020005001002525
Location: The Mile High City

If the color sweep code was like the '57s, you would expect my car to have a 1 under CS.

The Fireflite sedan also had no number under CS, where you might expect a 1 for a monotone car.

 

Mayhap the solid color code on both cars (PPP in my case, CCC on the sedan) said it all and no number under the CS was necessary?



Edited by Lancer Mike 2018-07-13 5:59 PM
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Chrycoman
Posted 2018-07-13 6:23 PM (#566560 - in reply to #566559)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Vancouver, BC
Lancer Mike - 2018-07-13 5:56 PM

If the color sweep code was like the '57s, you would expect my car to have a 1 under CS.

The Fireflite sedan also had no number under CS, where you might expect a 1 for a monotone car.



The numbers on the tag are for options. Your car has the standard single colour style and thus not an option. No number results in less confusion on the assembly line.

As the various assembly plants were taken over and placed under the Car Assembly Division, the sales codes, body tags and the build records were simplified by having all divisions and assembly plants use the same basic information. Sales codes were the same for all (except for items unique to same makes - such as the optional rear arm rests on base Plymouths and Dodges) for the 1959 model year and the build records followed. The body tag layout became the same for all by 1960, but the recording of the information on the tag did not become standardized until the 1965 model year.

Thus the changes from year to year in how things were done from 1956 through 1960.

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Lancer Mike
Posted 2018-07-13 6:25 PM (#566561 - in reply to #566559)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000200020005001002525
Location: The Mile High City

...or my car looked more like this?





(1958 DeSoto Firedome Color Study 2.jpg)



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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2018-07-23 10:20 PM (#567106 - in reply to #564902)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1112
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Location: Wild Wonderful
I have a question. According to the WPC News magazine, DeSoto made 17,479 Firedomes in 1958. And if the
VIN numbers started at 1000, does that mean the highest VIN on a Firedome was 18,479 ?
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2018-07-23 11:15 PM (#567109 - in reply to #567106)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000200020005001002525
Location: The Mile High City

There were 16,409 US-built Firedomes in 1958, with the other 1,070 Firedomes built in Canada.  That may affect the VIN numbers (not sure?).  Bill will know.

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=44213&posts=3&highlight=de%20soto%20production&highlightmode=1#M345352



Edited by Lancer Mike 2018-07-23 11:16 PM
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Chrycoman
Posted 2018-07-24 12:02 AM (#567110 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Posts: 1819
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Location: Vancouver, BC

Production by assembly plant -

Firedome - LS2 :
Wyoming Avenue - 16,409
Windsor - 1,070

Fireflite & Adventurer - LS3 :
Wyoming Avenue - 12,552

DeSoto included Adventurer production with the Fireflite for the total LS3

For serial numbers -

Firedome :
Wyoming Avenue - LS2-1001 to LS2-17409
Windsor - LS2W-1001 to LS2W-2070

Fireflite & Adventurer :
Wyoming Avenue - LS3-1001 to LS3-13552

The serial numbers for cars built at the Detroit plants did not have a letter for the assembly plant.
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2018-07-24 10:12 AM (#567131 - in reply to #567110)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1112
1000100
Location: Wild Wonderful
Thanks guys.
Firedome 16949. = 460 from the end. The youngest 58 DeSoto still out there ?
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2021-05-19 8:48 PM (#612104 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000200020005001002525
Location: The Mile High City

The Fireflite Spring Special for sale on ebay now...





(01 reduced.jpg)



(21 reduced.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2021-05-19 9:28 PM (#612106 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: So. Cal
Wow only 416 from the last one built. This one is very late, built on July 01, 1958.

The January Spring Special cutoff is approximately 5/12 = .417, so multiplying that by the total Fireflite production (= .417 * 12552 +1000) would put the spring special cutoff around VIN number: 6230.
Both of my '58 Fireflites have VIN numbers significantly smaller than that, so they aren't going to be spring special cars. In fact, my red one is around the 1000th car built, and my Turquoise car is around the 300th car built.
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frwl
Posted 2021-05-20 9:09 AM (#612118 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag


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This car has been sold for $36K by RB collections on September 8, 2019 as well
According to the broadcast sheet paint scheme should be monotone white (code XXX);
Although the roof has another (darker) color

Some info what I have:
B4 code on the broadcast sheet confirm the Spring Special Package (just below paint code)
SOLEX 5 decoding the shaded windshield only (Chrysler decoding sheet shows Solex 5 = Code N/A)
No info about TIRES 15 and AXLE RATIO 4




(1.jpg)



(2.jpg)



(3.JPG)



(4.JPG)



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Lancer Mike
Posted 2021-05-20 11:22 PM (#612129 - in reply to #132668)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: The Mile High City

Back when it was Chrysler LLC, they used to tell you the 15 tire code was Rayon white walls 8.5 x 14!  Seems that information got "lost" in transition to Mercedes, Fiat, Honda, Pugeot, Sputnik, John Deere, Tonka, Keebler, and whom ever else raised the pentastar flag over the last 15 years.  As you can see, they used to know the axel ratio codes too.  Someone here probably knows what the 4 translated to.



Edited by Lancer Mike 2021-05-20 11:35 PM
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frwl
Posted 2021-05-21 9:15 AM (#612131 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag


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Posts: 1876
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The Fireflites have two rear axle ratios:
3.15 – standard and the 3.31 – is optional;
Looks like this car has 3.15 axle (code 4) instead 3.31 axle (code 3) as it shown on the build sheet

The Fireflites have three types of tires:
5 Tires Rayon – Whitewall 8.50x14 (code 15)
5 Tires Nylon – Whitewall 8.50x14 (code N/A)
4 Tires Captive -Air – Whitewall 8.50x14 (code N/A) – FF Explorer Wagons only

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frwl
Posted 2021-05-21 10:23 AM (#612133 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag


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Correction to the information about rear axle ratios shown above:

2 = used on the Fireflite (no idea 3.15 or 3.31 – FF had only two axle codes)
4 = used on the Fireflite (no idea 3.15 or 3.31 – FF had only two axle codes)

3 = used on the Firedome – 3.31 – that’s confirmed
3 = used on the Adventurer (no info what the axle code is that)

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frwl
Posted 2021-05-21 10:31 AM (#612134 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag


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Posts: 1876
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Summary:
The 3.31 rear axle code ratio used on the Firedomes and Fireflites have different digits!
3 on the Firedomes and 2 or 4 on the Fireflites (need confirmation)
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frwl
Posted 2021-05-21 10:32 AM (#612135 - in reply to #612134)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag


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(1.JPG)



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Lancer Mike
Posted 2021-05-26 10:48 PM (#612267 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000200020005001002525
Location: The Mile High City
Wow! A manual shift Firedome! That must have been pretty rare. I was trying to find the Collectible Automobile article that Dave Duricy wrote - there may have been images of one in there. Still looking!
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Chrycoman
Posted 2021-05-27 6:05 AM (#612272 - in reply to #612267)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Posts: 1819
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Location: Vancouver, BC

DeSoto shipped 36,556 cars during the 1958 calendar year. Of that, 98.7% had Torqueflite - 1.3% had a three speed manual. Or, 475 DeSotos shipped in 1958 calendar year had a manual transmission.

Dave's article on 1957-59 DeSoto models was in June, 2014, pp 24-37. Volume 31, #1.

Lots of photos of styling proposals as well as factory photos. No photos of manual shift cars that I could see.
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-05-27 9:51 AM (#612274 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: So. Cal
And I would guess that the vast majority of those manual shift cars were Firesweeps. It is possible that no Firedome ever came with manual transmission with numbers this low, but who knows?
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2021-05-27 11:21 PM (#612286 - in reply to #612274)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000200020005001002525
Location: The Mile High City

Thanks for the responses, Bill and Nathan.  I went to Duricy's De Soto Land webpage and was surprised to find De Soto had Los Angeles production of Firedomes and Fireflites in 1958.  I knew they had Firesweep production in L.A. - I don't think I have ever seen an L.A. Firedome or Fireflite data tag.

https://www.desotoland.com/desoto_serial_numbers.shtml#1958

I still need to find the article, but there was a green super-stripper Firedome two-door hardtop with hubcaps that I thought may have had a manual transmission, but I don't know.

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Chrycoman
Posted 2021-05-28 4:12 AM (#612287 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Expert

Posts: 1819
1000500100100100
Location: Vancouver, BC
The dark green 1957 DeSoto in the article is a 1957 DeSoto Firesweep. It has hubcaps and whitewalls and as there is no good photo of the instrument panel so you cannot tell if it has buttons or gearshift lever.

For serial numbers Chrysler Historical does not have ending serial numbers for 1957 to 1959. I do have them for 1957 and 1958, courtesy Chrysler of Canada and their parts catalogue final editions The early edition had the beginning serial number while the final edition (February 1958) had the closing numbers as well. And the DeSoto numbers showed Detroit production for Firesweep, Firedome and Fireflite. Only the Firesweep is listed for Los Angeles.

Also note that no DeSotos were not built in Canada for the 1957 model year. The Firedome and Fieflite models were imported, but not Firesweep.

At the beginning of the 1957 model year Chrysler announced beginning serial numbers for the Fieredome and Fireflite but no ending numbers were announced. Much the same occurred for the 1955 LWB taxi - an opening number was announced (5,130,001) but no closing number as the LWB taxi never got into production .

1957 DeSoto Firesweep -
Hamtramck plant - 58,001,001 to 58,038,916 (37,916)
Los Angeles plant - 60,014,001 to 60,017,354 (3,354)

1957 DeSoto Firedome - S5
Wyoming plant - 55,332,001 - 55,376,868 (44,868)
Los Angeles plant - 64,035,001 - (No ending number)

1957 DeSoto Fireflite - S26
Wyoming plant - 50,396,001 - 50-426,380 (30,380)
LosAngeles plant - 62,053,001 - (No ending number)

1957 DeSoto Adventurer - S26A
Wyoming plant - 50,396,001 - 50,426,380 (Included with Fireflite numbers)

1957 DeSoto Taxi - In production in January ,1957, based on Firesweep with Dodge's flathead six.
Hanramck plant - 59,001,001 - 59,001,139 (139)

Engine nubers :
Firesweep - KDS KDS8 starting January 10, 1957
Firedome - S25
Fireflite / Adventurer - S26
Firesweep Taxi - LDS6 starts at 9601 on January 10, 1957. LDS6 also replaces prefix D72.

Not sure where Dave got his info from, but only Firesweeps were built in LA on 1957 to 1959. In 1960 no DeSotos were built at LosAngeles. All 1960-1961 DeSotos were built at East Jefferson.


The 1958, and 1959 are all the same - No serial numbers issued for LosAngeles, except for the Firesweep. Production resumed in Canada for the Firedome at the Windsor plant for 1958.

Tomorrow I will lay out the 1958, 1959 and 1960 models and serial numbers. The main source of info for 1958 and 1959 was Branham Automobile Reference Book - 1961 edition.

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frwl
Posted 2021-06-03 10:27 AM (#612419 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag


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Poly 325/3-Speed: Samoa Green 1957 DeSoto Firesweep

https://bringatrailer.com/2017/07/15/poly-3253-speed-samoa-green-195...




(1.jpg)



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Lancer Mike
Posted 2021-06-03 8:14 PM (#612448 - in reply to #612287)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000200020005001002525
Location: The Mile High City

Chrycoman - 2021-05-28 2:12 AM Not sure where Dave got his info from, but only Firesweeps were built in LA on 1957 to 1959. 

Thanks Bill.  I thought that was the case, but just looking at Duricy's webpage, one may think there was Firedome and Fireflite production in LA during those years.  Good of you to clear that up!

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