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1958 DeSoto Data Tag
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-04-28 2:14 AM (#127473)
Subject: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50005000500050001000500100100100100
Location: Parts Unknown

What does it all mean ?



(DeSoto data tag.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments DeSoto data tag.jpg (51KB - 499 downloads)
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57desoto
Posted 2008-04-28 4:58 PM (#127562 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Expert

Posts: 1314
1000100100100
Location: New Castle PA
Doc, that looks just like the 1957 DeSoto data tag. I've pretty much decoded it all for 1957. Go to my web site and take the link to decoding your cowl tag. The codes will certainly be different for 1958, especially for things like paint, but the "meaning" of each ought to be the same.
http://www.angelfire.com/de/petrus/index.html
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-04-29 2:57 AM (#127648 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50005000500050001000500100100100100
Location: Parts Unknown
Thanks, Ed.

I am working some l o n g hours right now, but will try and dig out my box of data tags to do some cross referencing.

I show a "2" below the "C" at bottom right. One thing very unusual on this car is the triad horn. I wonder if this is the coding for that ?

Somewhere in my old notes I have what I figured was the breakdown of the SEQ and SCH. I think I figured the Sequence number is just that, ... in my case number 117 of 474, but the three digit scheduling code is getting me confused with GM codes indicating which week of production rather than an actual date coded out like muscle era Mopars did.

I just gotta spend some more time reacquainting myself with this stuff !

Thanks again !
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Imp58Alpes
Posted 2008-04-29 7:15 AM (#127657 - in reply to #127648)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 505
500
Location: Grenoble - France
My 2-cent contribution regarding SCH(eduled) 059 and SEQ(uence) 117. I would understand that like as 9th of May (1958), 117th car scheduled that day (as there is no serial number, that would be the only way to make the difference between the cars scheduled the same day, so that there was no mix between the trims, engines and options in the assembly line).
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-04-29 11:02 AM (#127674 - in reply to #127657)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50005000500050001000500100100100100
Location: Parts Unknown
Imp58Alpes - 2008-04-30 4:15 AM

My 2-cent contribution regarding SCH(eduled) 059 and SEQ(uence) 117. I would understand that like as 9th of May (1958), 117th car scheduled that day (as there is no serial number, that would be the only way to make the difference between the cars scheduled the same day, so that there was no mix between the trims, engines and options in the assembly line).


*******************************

This is driving me nuts because I had this all pinned in 1992, but a fading brain and all my notes being in boxes is making it all just out of reach in the "foggy depths" to recall with great certainty. This is also muddied by the fact that in figuring it all out evolved through a number of "theory" stages until certain verifications proved or disproved hunches. Now it all is a distant memory and I can't remember exactly what I figured out ! Gotta make time to dig out those notes !

IF the SCH is dated as you suggest above, them SOME cars are going to have a 4 digit code, ... say made on the 23rd of November. Anyone got a 4 digit SCH code car ?

I feel like I am re-inventing the wheel here !
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Imp58Alpes
Posted 2008-04-29 12:23 PM (#127686 - in reply to #127674)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 505
500
Location: Grenoble - France
If there is no car with 4 digits, perhaps it's the 059th day of production ? (just a guess, as there is only 365 days in a year, making 3 digits enough) ... then the question would be: "is there any DeSoto with the first digit being something else than 0, 1, 2 & 3?". 1957 DeSotos appear to have the same numbering (SCH and SEQ with 3 digits).

Edited by Imp58Alpes 2008-04-29 12:25 PM
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57desoto
Posted 2008-04-29 6:06 PM (#127744 - in reply to #127686)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Expert

Posts: 1314
1000100100100
Location: New Castle PA
Imp58Alpes, you might be right on with that guess. I have information on lots of 1957 DeSotos, and have never seen one with a digit other than 0, 1, 2, 3 as the first digit in the SCH. I know a car with SCH 095 and build date Feb 27, 1957, a car with SCH 103 and build date 3-20-1957 and one with SCH 133 and build date 4-25-1957. If not DIRECTLY indicative, it's certainly an indicator.
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d500neil
Posted 2008-04-29 8:03 PM (#127765 - in reply to #127744)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
Ed, I don't know about "Soto's", but there is a HUGE difference in P/T information, and layout, for the 1957-1961 Dodges'
information.

To break the codes, one needs P/T plates, Broadcast Sheets, IBC card-copies, and actual-car data from several cars,
in order to decypher what a Route number, or tire-size, or differential ratio, or even convertible top-color or trim colors
might be, on any one parricular car.

Clive Reeve's 1959 Dodge has a unique option number-code (got it memorized!) "31-9", which is 'blank', on the B Sheets and
on the IBM card-copy. I keep telling him to write-down each/anything on his car, so that, by process-of-elimination, we
might be able to isolate that unique option item !






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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-04-30 1:20 AM (#127798 - in reply to #127744)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50005000500050001000500100100100100
Location: Parts Unknown
57desoto - 2008-04-30 3:06 PM

Imp58Alpes, you might be right on with that guess. I have information on lots of 1957 DeSotos, and have never seen one with a digit other than 0, 1, 2, 3 as the first digit in the SCH. I know a car with SCH 095 and build date Feb 27, 1957, a car with SCH 103 and build date 3-20-1957 and one with SCH 133 and build date 4-25-1957. If not DIRECTLY indicative, it's certainly an indicator.


**************************************

Ed,

How are you determining the build dates for these cars ?

Of the above cars, car A says production started 22 Sept. if we count all days on the calender, ... Car B says 20 Sept. Car C says 13 Nov. If we discount weekends and holidays, production started even later ! I don't think I know what dates production began for 57 and 58 model years, but I know debut dates were usually in September, pushing production start up back into August.

Confused in Cornwallistan

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Imp58Alpes
Posted 2008-04-30 3:13 AM (#127804 - in reply to #127798)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 505
500
Location: Grenoble - France
One additional confusing guess from me : since SCH may indicate Scheduled date, it may not be exactly the built date, but just the day the car was scheduled (i.e. putting all the parameters together, planning the construction of the car), then built few days later ... I don't know what external suppliers supplied to Chrysler Corp, but a long delay between the schedule date and the built date could have been due to a rare option or a trouble in delivering a specific part to the assembly line ...

Trying to guess in Grenoblistan ...

Edited by Imp58Alpes 2008-04-30 7:23 AM
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57desoto
Posted 2008-04-30 5:32 AM (#127815 - in reply to #127804)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Expert

Posts: 1314
1000100100100
Location: New Castle PA
Doc, I have the build dates on a number of cars in my 1957 DeSoto database from informatiion provided by Chrysler Historical via the build sheet. Neil, you're certainly right about the small details only being available from those build sheets.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-04-30 10:38 AM (#127837 - in reply to #127815)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50005000500050001000500100100100100
Location: Parts Unknown
57desoto - 2008-05-01 2:32 AM

Doc, I have the build dates on a number of cars in my 1957 DeSoto database from informatiion provided by Chrysler Historical via the build sheet. Neil, you're certainly right about the small details only being available from those build sheets.


*******************************

I see.

Well, at $45 a pop, I don't think my budget will allow ordering these up for all the tags I have in a box just to build a reference base !

I was hoping you'd explain some "magic" method written right there on the tag !

I had tags for a 57 NY'er and a 58 Fireflite in my office when we moved. I know they are somewhere close, but can't seem to lay hands on them now. The box of tags is buried deep in storage.
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d500neil
Posted 2008-04-30 7:57 PM (#127951 - in reply to #127837)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
Well, Ed, as we both know, cracking the codes involves MORE than just having, even, the B-Sheets and the IBM cards!

We/you/Doc/whomever need to see the cars, that relate to those documents; for example; under the "TOPS&SPEAKERS"
box, there can be 5 or more numbers, referring to top colors and signal-seeking radios & rear speakers.

Merely seeing a "5" there doesn't tell you what the car had installed on it, at the factory; same with tire and gear ratio
coding.

In addition to the above, factory literature and brochures and Ross Roy Data Books can fill in some 'blanks' and/or
allow for educated guesses to be made, on/for the coding.

Here's a GOOD one for you: on the 1957 early-produced B-Sheets (9/56), there WASN'T a box specifically created to identify
the Super D500 option.

On the latter-ones (12/56), the factory removed an option-listing for something-else, and assigned that option-code for the Super D500 option.

I don't know how early-production Super-D's were ID.'ed on the B-Sheets; the IBM cards did I.D. them .

Nothing's easy or simple!

And, Oh, YEAH, when I was assembling a bunch of 1956-1961 B-Sheets, they were only $10.00-15.00 each
and the Chrysler Corporation would provide them to any serious researcher.





Edited by d500neil 2008-04-30 8:02 PM
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59 explorer
Posted 2008-04-30 10:49 PM (#127982 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 336
10010010025
Location: Hershey PA
As Ed can attest to (see his website) Desoto did not make it easy to figure out the data plate.

The Firesweeps had a different format than the other models. The location of the plate on the body was different between the sweep and the others. In 59 they even changed the location of the plates on the domes and flites during the model year. Later plates had more information than the earlier ones.

In general it appears that SCH or MO are production dates and would be a 4 digit number like 0430 meaning the car was made on April 30; this allows for cars made Oct-Dec to be marked like 1114 meaning the car was made on Nov 14

Years ago the National Desoto Club found a 1961 with a sequence number 3029 and a production date of Nov 30 (the last day of production). We thought we found the 6th last one made. When we tried to check it against other information, we found other 61 Desotos with similar sequence numbers. We were told that the 3029 should be interpreted as 30 for Desoto and 29 as the 29th Desoto being made that particular date. We interpret Seq as a daily production control and not the particular model count.

Good luck Dr Desoto

59 Explorer

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-01 2:44 AM (#127996 - in reply to #127982)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50005000500050001000500100100100100
Location: Parts Unknown

OK, ... a couple questions and comments.

Does anyone know the date 58 DeSotos went into production ?

Does anyone here own or know of a verifiable 57 or 58 with the Triad Horn option ? This is about the strangest option I know my car has had since new, but I can't really peg anything on my data tag that acknowledges this option. A second car might offer a clue ?

I have a fair amount of dealer specific paper stuff for 58 DeSoto, including salesman's pocket guide for models, pricing, and options. I also have the Ross Roy book. I will look them over and see if anything is revealed. If anyone has questions of comments, I will be happy to oblige.

One last thing. Anyone know what this came off of ? Nothing shows like it in any accessory paperwork I have seen. Can't find it in the parts book either.



(DeSoto traff lt viewer.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments DeSoto traff lt viewer.jpg (130KB - 346 downloads)
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57desoto
Posted 2008-05-01 5:32 AM (#128001 - in reply to #127996)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Expert

Posts: 1314
1000100100100
Location: New Castle PA
I have the triad horn option on my Adventurer. The build sheet for 1957 has a line item labelled "TRIAD HORN" so it should be a no-brainer for that question.

Edited by 57desoto 2008-05-01 5:35 AM




(build_card_epetrus_s26a.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments build_card_epetrus_s26a.jpg (199KB - 431 downloads)
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Imp58Alpes
Posted 2008-05-01 6:19 AM (#128002 - in reply to #128001)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 505
500
Location: Grenoble - France
After searching for the meaning of "schedule" in my dictionary, wouldn't it be simply a kind of "plan of production", depending on the amount of orders the factory received : SCH 175 SEQ 450 = 175th production run, 450th car of that production run (as you can see on Ed's card, the VIN was added manually, probably after SCH and SEQ were given). Perhaps there was someone "planning" the production runs, depending on the amount of cars to be built, team shifts ... However, this explanation would remove any linkage between SCH and a calendar date. Do we know how production was managed back in the day ?

Just a guess ...
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-01 11:13 AM (#128037 - in reply to #128001)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50005000500050001000500100100100100
Location: Parts Unknown

Gee Ed,

How did you manage to get such a nice, clearly legible card like that ? Mine looks like it was left out in the rain for a couple years !

So, ... is the "9" code under Triad Horn seen anywhere on that car's data tag, or was that option just not put on them ? How about other options relating to both the card and the tag ?

Thanks for sharing your resources !

B.
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-01 10:20 PM (#128149 - in reply to #128037)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
THAT is a World-Class quality IBM card copy!!!!

Well, pretty-darn-good, anyway; the lettering along the bottom is not quite legible; that's why 'you' need to get a collection
of them, because the area-legibility WILL vary, from card-to-card.


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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-02 2:08 AM (#128174 - in reply to #128149)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50005000500050001000500100100100100
Location: Parts Unknown

Alright, .... bear with me here. I found my file of correspondence with CHS and my build card. I suspect much more is known today than was when this transpired in 1997, so I have a file of letters back and forth asking questions and getting replies. I will just throw out what I have and let's see what we can figure out.

Going down the column ....

My car has bumper guards. Data tag reads "6", build card shows "6" under bumper guard column.

Below that, the next notation is a "9" under "crank air vent". The car does have a down breather off the valve cover. No "9" is shown on the data tag.

Next is a "3" under "mirror right". No "3" anywhere on the data tag, but in photos the car shows mirrors on both sides as found.

Next is undercoat with a "1". This also shows on the data tag, and believe me, the car was plastered with the stuff !

Next is "12" under "tires". Nothing on the data tag like that and no telling what came on the car after all these years unless I find early photos.

"Axle" shows a "3". CHS told me this meant 3.31 gears and this is what is in the car.

In the far bottom corner, I have a "602" showing through very blurry and illegible stuff.

Car was built 06 Jan. 1958 and looks to be shipped the same day.

Dealer number was 89041, but some confusion was being had by the CHS guy, as he said he could not decode "89041" as his book only went up to 62520, so I never got a dealer name, etc.

Incidentally, the "ST" in the top row on the data tags stands for "styling". What that translated to, the CHS guy could not tell me.

With a little better understanding of what I have in my hands than I did then, I will continue to look at all the data and see if anything else can be learned.

Anyone know what dealer 89041 was known as ? Region listed is "95". The verbal history I have is that the car originally came from Syracuse, NY.
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57desoto
Posted 2008-05-02 5:22 AM (#128183 - in reply to #128174)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Expert

Posts: 1314
1000100100100
Location: New Castle PA
I do not believe the 6 for the triad horn shows anywhere on the data tag. They can't show EVERY option there, certainly. Plus some items came within the accessory groups or glamour groups and they don't show individually. The nice clear data card is for my Adventurer -- just got lucky. I have a pretty good collection of them for other peoples' 1957 DeSotos, which is why I'm comfortable with many of the 1957 items I've mentioned and have on my web site. I also have all the words typed out in a WORD document if anyone wants it. These are the words that would be on any blank card before it was punched or stamped. I know that some folks don't have legible cards, and I thought that might help.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-02 10:53 AM (#128204 - in reply to #128183)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50005000500050001000500100100100100
Location: Parts Unknown
57desoto - 2008-05-03 2:22 AM

I do not believe the 6 for the triad horn shows anywhere on the data tag. They can't show EVERY option there, certainly. Plus some items came within the accessory groups or glamour groups and they don't show individually.

I also have all the words typed out in a WORD document if anyone wants it. These are the words that would be on any blank card before it was punched or stamped. I know that some folks don't have legible cards, and I thought that might help.


*********************************

I was surprised to see my card has a blank space for Triad. It was on the car when I got it, and given the overall "crusties" going on with the radiator support and the horns, it appears to have been there since day one !

I was working with Brandt Rosenbush there at CHS and I think I was wearing my welcome thin by asking 8000 questions and for better copy resolution. He sent 6 different copies, explaining they had some ancient microfilm viewer that when one area of the card was in focus, another would be fuzzy or illegible. Given your mostly legible copy, I was looking all mine over and trying to fill in blanks in the fuzzy areas. 57 is different that 58, but a number of things are the same, so a typed out blank might be of considerable help, .... thanks !
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-05-02 2:56 PM (#128256 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000200010001002525
Location: Queen City of the Plains
OK, let's crack this code. I have to look at Ed's post. Here are our '58 DeSoto Firedome and Fireflite convertible tags all together:




(Docs Tag.jpg)



(Gidmans Tag.jpg)



(Mikes Tag.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Docs Tag.jpg (51KB - 339 downloads)
Attachments Gidmans Tag.jpg (44KB - 495 downloads)
Attachments Mikes Tag.jpg (135KB - 386 downloads)
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-05-02 3:28 PM (#128260 - in reply to #128256)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000200010001002525
Location: Queen City of the Plains
So, we need to make our own version of Ed's decoder. My car has the stone shields, so that explains that. Ed has done all the hard work so far. The one thing that puzzles me is the "ST" code. Ed notes that this is for the convertible top color in 1957, but that doesn't appear to hold through 1958. Doc and Gary do not have a number under ST, while I do. We all have the number 2 under "C", which I suspect may indicate a white convertible top for the 1958 models - which we all have.

The "CS" Color Sweep is a bit perplexing too, at least for 1958, in comparing our three cars.

Edited by Lancer Mike 2008-05-02 3:32 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-03 4:05 AM (#128351 - in reply to #128260)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50005000500050001000500100100100100
Location: Parts Unknown
OK, Mike, ..... let's look at your car, as it seems the oddball for paint and that "ST" code.

PPP paint is Holly Red and all three slots showing "P" indicates a solid red car. Obviously, the ragtop would not be painted, so it kind of defies logic that the first letter (which indicated upper body / roof) would show a paint color, but given that both Gidman's car and mine show this, it was done. But yours DOES indicate that the "mid section" (the color sweep) was a color matching the lower (main body) color, so it was coded as a factory monotone Holly red car. This leads me to wonder if it was built without the lower stainless trim, or if a "1" code possibly meant it got the trim, but no color, and yet another number under "ST" might indicate only the top line of stainless ????

This coding of your is unusual, and *might* explain why they saw fit to give you a "1" under ST, which CHS defined as "styling". I really have no clue at this point what "styling" meant, but given the solid red paint code, it might have been an over-ride or delete code for solid color on a convertible? I know Fireflite convertibles came standard with two-tone colorsweep paint, but did Firedome ragtops as well ? I know for a fact that on Sweeps the colorsweep was an added cost item.

Note that my tag shows nothing under "TR", while both the Firedomes show a "3". This is because Fireflite came standard with Torqueflite, while it was an added cost option on Firedome. Extending the logic, the typical colorsweep / two tone found and coded on both mine and Gidman's car warrants no special notation, while you have a one tone paint code and this odd code under "ST".

Is there a connection ? I do not know. I can only speculate at this time.
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Gidman
Posted 2008-05-03 1:11 PM (#128382 - in reply to #128351)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 449
10010010010025
Location: Southern California
www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9717&start=1&posts=15 - 45k -Check out the thread on Joaqim's Windsor.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-04 12:26 AM (#128461 - in reply to #128382)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50005000500050001000500100100100100
Location: Parts Unknown
Gidman - 2008-05-04 10:11 AM

www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9717&start=1&posts=15 - 45k -Check out the thread on Joaqim's Windsor.


Link doesn't work. What folder is it in ?
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FinFan
Posted 2008-05-04 6:58 AM (#128472 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag


Elite Veteran

Posts: 709
500100100
Location: Poznan, Poland, Europe
For me it works, just needs dropping the "-45k- " part http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9717&s...
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-05-07 1:00 AM (#128873 - in reply to #128472)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000200010001002525
Location: Queen City of the Plains
I sent an e-mail to the historical society. I gave them my address and they said they would check to make sure the information for my car is available. They said their records are not 100% complete. Once they get back to me, I should be able to get my build sheet - then I can post it here!
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-05-14 1:47 PM (#129946 - in reply to #128873)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000200010001002525
Location: Queen City of the Plains
I haven't heard anything from the historical society for a few days. I think I will just send them a check and see what happens. I copied a photograph of the 1958 EFI Adventurer convertible from the web page. I can't read it very well, but I can see that it has the solid paint code like mine as, I hope, VVV (adventurer gold) - but it looks like KKK (smoke gray) - can't be.

Under schedule 048?
Sequence 541?
Body 495?
ST 1?
PNT KKK????
TRM 641?
PS 3?
AH 5?
PW 4?
BG 6?
C 2? - hard to read




(EFI Adventurer Tag.jpg)



(Fender%20tag.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments EFI Adventurer Tag.jpg (7KB - 313 downloads)
Attachments Fender%20tag.jpg (71KB - 295 downloads)
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-15 5:26 PM (#130150 - in reply to #129946)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
Paint code looks to me to be XXX .

I wonder if the P/T plate contains the mythological "Fuelie" coding????




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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-05-15 11:23 PM (#130188 - in reply to #130150)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000200010001002525
Location: Queen City of the Plains
Could be XXX, that would make more sense. But that would still be quite a scandal! You would think that if SPL was ever used, the EFI would be a good case for it, but I can't see anything stamped under SPL.
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-16 5:12 PM (#130294 - in reply to #130188)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
For the 1958 Dodges, Greg Leggatt & I have a theory (as yet un-confirmed, for OBVIOUS reasons!) where/how
the Fuelie-engine status should be confirmed, on the P/T plate.

Dodge's P/T plates are completely different from the other marques' plates, so I wouldn't know where to look for that info,
on a Soto.

BTW, on/for the Dodges, the Fuel Injection nameplate (which is rumored to be the SAME item, on all-but the 300's---which
had "Fuel Injection" be embossed into the "300" cloisonne emblems---)....was supposed to have been installed at the end of
the shortened-for-1958 quarter panel side molding. But, it could as-easily have been placed onto the fenders, instead.





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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-17 2:03 AM (#130330 - in reply to #130294)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50005000500050001000500100100100100
Location: Parts Unknown
d500neil - 2008-05-17 2:12 PM


BTW, on/for the Dodges, the Fuel Injection nameplate (which is rumored to be the SAME item, on all-but the 300's---which
had "Fuel Injection" be embossed into the "300" cloisonne emblems---)....was supposed to have been installed at the end of
the shortened-for-1958 quarter panel side molding. But, it could as-easily have been placed onto the fenders, instead.




*********************************

DeSoto had a gold and white F/I coupe that they paraded about the show circuit in 1958. I have a number of photos of it. I would be surprised if the other makes did not do exactly the same as it was their "primo" option that year. If so, are there not photos showing tag placement for Dodge and Plymouth ?

There was a small box of parts in the trunk of my DeSoto when I got it. In the bottom was the stylized chrome "X" that makes the background for the letters reading "FUEL INJECTION". The previous owner had no idea what it was or how it got there, but somewhere in the car's history, someone crossed paths with a F/I car and part of an emblem ended up in the trunk !
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-05-19 3:05 PM (#130611 - in reply to #130330)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Queen City of the Plains
Geez, it's like the Holy Grail of MoPar emblems! So that is a two-piece emblem? Even a part of one must be very valuable!




(FI%20Badge.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments FI%20Badge.jpg (61KB - 282 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-20 1:38 AM (#130715 - in reply to #130611)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Yeah, ... I suppose ...

I knew what it was the moment I saw it, but since I had never seen one on person or up close, I really had no idea what the letters really looked like. It is in very good shape considering it looks used, but what the hey ? I am more puzzled by how it came to be in that car ?
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-20 9:20 PM (#130887 - in reply to #130715)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Notice, too, the very clever way that that emblem depicts raw (bubbly) fuel entering into the "X-chamber/injector"
and emerging as :"INJECTION" !!!!

Slick......!



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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-05-20 11:06 PM (#130902 - in reply to #130887)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Queen City of the Plains
Hi, Doc:

I just looked in the membership directory and there is a fellow named Allen Faltus who owns a 1958 Firedome convertible in Ellensville, Washington - your neck of the woods. Do you know Faltus or know about his car? Maybe we can get a picture of his data plate. Also, Nick Nichols owns an 1958 Adventurer coupe...that guy has everything! I have seen pictures of his Regal Lancer. I'll e-mail Nick and see if he has a photo of his DeSoto data plate.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-22 2:02 AM (#131080 - in reply to #130902)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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I know OF Allen Faltus. If memory serves, his family owned an oldtime car dealership there in E-burg. Last time I heard news surrounding his name he was selling a very original 57 Adventurer (within the last few years). I will see what I can do to look him up. When was working "Federales", I was through E-burg twice a week. Now it is more like twice a year.
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Gidman
Posted 2008-05-22 2:30 PM (#131140 - in reply to #131080)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Hi Doc and Mike

Allen is also a member of the NDC. He also owns 56 and 57 Fireflites. I am going to e mail him and maybe he can post a tag.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-05-22 11:19 PM (#131187 - in reply to #131140)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Queen City of the Plains
So if Faltus still owns his, that makes three '58 Firedome convertibles in the United States that I am aware of. I am aware of only one Fireflite convertible (Doc's) and one Adventurer convertible (White's). Knowing that I do not know all, for every one I know of, there are probably a dozen or more out there I don't know of.

For the '58 Firesweep convertibles, I know Mackner found one, I saw one at Barrett-Jackson that sold in the U.S.A., and I think there was a white and pewter-colored one in California that sold on eBay not long ago. Don't know whether that stayed in the states. It seems like there was one more too.

I bet the Scandinavian countries have as many, if not more, DeSoto convertibles as the states do now.

Edited by Lancer Mike 2008-05-22 11:21 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-23 1:34 AM (#131195 - in reply to #131187)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Here's where I am showing how out of touch I am. Back in the day, Tim ***an out of Ft. Wayne, Indiana was a serious 58 DeSoto guy. At the time (late 80's-early 90's) he owned a nice Sweep ragtop, and at least one each of the Dome and Flite ragtops in rough shape as well. I have no idea if he still has those cars or not. There was a rough beige and white Flite in Missouri too. I know there were others, but just can't remember off the top of my head. My old NDC directories are boxed away, but back when I was hunting parts for my Adventurer project I contacted ANYONE known to have a convertible and chased many leads as well.

I have known of a number of Sweeps, but really consider them a separate car. Besides rear body and interior, they really are a Dodge and share little in common with the big cars.

There was a white/red one running around in Shelton years ago. An all-white/no color sweep one showed up for sale on a trailer at the NDC National meet in Sacto. in 92 (?). Carjock pulled one off a farm just a few miles from where I live now - it was also white / red. I bought yet another white/red one out of Ohio and later sold it to Bo Malefors. In fact, I was just looking at the paperwork for that car the other day.

Given how active guys like Bo were in hunting down exotic FL cars and pipelining them to Nordic countries, I would agree that most of the known cars are outside the U.S. today. But like you say, for all the known cars, how many remain hidden in fields, barns, and garages ? How many people knew of your car hiding up at Grand Lake a year ago ? There are bound to be a *few* left out there to be found.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-05-23 10:56 AM (#131217 - in reply to #131195)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Queen City of the Plains
Doc, that is interesting; as a life-long Denverite, I figured I would have seen my car around before I did. I had heard of it, but figured it was long gone. Turns out it was here all along. It makes you wonder what is hidden in your own neighborhood somewhere. I can't even imagine how many are hidden in California!
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Gidman
Posted 2008-05-23 3:01 PM (#131254 - in reply to #131217)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Look at Ebay, item #120264642785. A dealers book on the 58 Desotos, featuring fabric samples, paint samples, a great list of accessories...might answer a lot of these option questions.

Wow, what a book, price is going skyward.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-05-24 2:13 AM (#131340 - in reply to #131254)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Queen City of the Plains
Hi, Gary:

I saw it! Wow! I would love to have that! But I bet someone would love to have it more than me!
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Chrycoman
Posted 2008-05-25 5:38 PM (#131522 - in reply to #128351)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Doctor DeSoto - 2008-05-03 1:05 AM

OK, Mike, ..... let's look at your car, as it seems the oddball for paint and that "ST" code.

PPP paint is Holly Red and all three slots showing "P" indicates a solid red car. Obviously, the ragtop would not be painted, so it kind of defies logic that the first letter (which indicated upper body / roof) would show a paint color, but given that both Gidman's car and mine show this, it was done. But yours DOES indicate that the "mid section" (the color sweep) was a color matching the lower (main body) color, so it was coded as a factory monotone Holly red car. This leads me to wonder if it was built without the lower stainless trim, or if a "1" code possibly meant it got the trim, but no color, and yet another number under "ST" might indicate only the top line of stainless ????

This coding of your is unusual, and *might* explain why they saw fit to give you a "1" under ST, which CHS defined as "styling". I really have no clue at this point what "styling" meant, but given the solid red paint code, it might have been an over-ride or delete code for solid color on a convertible? I know Fireflite convertibles came standard with two-tone colorsweep paint, but did Firedome ragtops as well ? I know for a fact that on Sweeps the colorsweep was an added cost item.

Note that my tag shows nothing under "TR", while both the Firedomes show a "3". This is because Fireflite came standard with Torqueflite, while it was an added cost option on Firedome. Extending the logic, the typical colorsweep / two tone found and coded on both mine and Gidman's car warrants no special notation, while you have a one tone paint code and this odd code under "ST".

Is there a connection ? I do not know. I can only speculate at this time.



"ST" is "Style", and it referred to the style of the paint scheme on the car. The single digit for the "Style" was used from 1957 when Mopar adopted single letter codes for the colours and used them right through to the end of the single digit paint codes at the end of the 1968 model year. The Style digit really came into use when the three letter paint codes were replaced with a two letter plus number system for 1960 (1959 for Dodge). At that time the Style number became the third digit in the paint code.

All convertibles from 1957 through 1968 had a roof paint code that was the same as the main body colour. Easier than coming up with something to denote the car had no roof, painted or otherwise. The colour of the folding roof was placed elsewhere on the body tag.

Not sure of the Style codes for the 1957-59 era, except for "1" which meant monotone for the complete 1957-68 era. In almost all years "2" was the basic roof/body two-tone (Dodge had some variations).


The following decodes the paint codes for 1957-59 Plymouth, DeSoto, Chrysler and Imperial 2-tones :

ABC = A - Upper (roof) colour. B - Lower (body) colour, C - Sweep/insert colour
(Thus a 1958 car with a white, black lower body colour and black sweep/insert - XBB. And Style "2" two-tone.)


1957-59 Dodge was a bit different as the fins were emphasized by trim on the body :

ABB = A - Roof and fins colour, B - Lower body and sweep/insert colour

ABC = A - Roof and fins colour, B - Sweep/insert colour, C - Lower body colour

For 1959 Dodge adopted the alpha-alpha-numeric system -
AB1 where "A" is the contrast colour and "B" the main body colour -
1 - Monotone style (AA1)
2 - A - Fins in contrast colour
3 - A - Fins and lower insert colour
4 - A - Roof, fins and lower insert colour

And from 1960 through 1962 the contrasting colour included such things as the roof, roof cantilever, saddle, and sweep insert. The numbers varies from make to make and year to year, with only "1" (monotone) and "2" (roof / body two-tone) being consistant. For 1963 and 1964 an additional letter was added under "PNT" to denote the side sweep insert colour.

As a side note, Chrysler of Canada did not adopt single letter paint codes until 1958 with the 1958-59 layout being the same (including Dodge) as on the 1957-59 DeSoto. They went to the two digit system for 1960, but did not use the third digit to denote paint style until the 1966 model year.
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-26 12:00 AM (#131560 - in reply to #131522)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Bill, 1957 Dodge paint scheme coding was different from 1958 paint coding.

On the Paint/Trim plate, where the top-color was encoded, a "1" denoted a black top, a "2" was a white top, "3" on Dodges was green and "4" was blue.

Undercoating was "1", too, so you might check the P/T plate (or the Broadcast Sheet, or the factory's IBM card copy) for the top color encoding, and maybe for undercoating.







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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-26 1:37 AM (#131568 - in reply to #131560)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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"Dodges, .... we don't need no stinkin' Dodges !"

What are you guys talking about Dodges for ? This is a DeSoto thread !
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Gidman
Posted 2008-05-26 2:57 PM (#131661 - in reply to #131568)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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LOL!!
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-26 5:08 PM (#131676 - in reply to #131661)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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But, but, but..BILL started it ....!
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