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1958 DeSoto Data Tag
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2015-06-04 6:12 PM (#480422 - in reply to #479875)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

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58DeSoDodge59 - 2015-05-30 7:40 PM

Okay guys, here's some more information.


I noticed that the IBM card says "2" under the "ST", but the ID tag on the car it says "9".
Was this a last minute change?




Wow, nobody knows?
I thought you guys knew everything.


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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-06-04 11:36 PM (#480458 - in reply to #480422)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag


Expert

Posts: 1506
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Location: Ontario, Canada
58DeSoDodge59 - 2015-06-04 6:12 PM

58DeSoDodge59 - 2015-05-30 7:40 PM

Okay guys, here's some more information.


I noticed that the IBM card says "2" under the "ST", but the ID tag on the car it says "9".
Was this a last minute change?




Wow, nobody knows?
I thought you guys knew everything.




Well, maybe someone does!? It seems to me that you have this car/questions in "Members Rides" , "General Discussion" as well as here. Too confusing, at least to me!! Doesn't take all that much to confuse me!!

Greg
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2015-06-05 12:58 AM (#480470 - in reply to #480458)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

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Location: Wild Wonderful
LD3 Greg - 2015-06-04 11:36 PM

58DeSoDodge59 - 2015-06-04 6:12 PM

58DeSoDodge59 - 2015-05-30 7:40 PM

Okay guys, here's some more information.


I noticed that the IBM card says "2" under the "ST", but the ID tag on the car it says "9".
Was this a last minute change?




Wow, nobody knows?
I thought you guys knew everything.




Well, maybe someone does!? It seems to me that you have this car/questions in "Members Rides" , "General Discussion" as well as here. Too confusing, at least to me!! Doesn't take all that much to confuse me!!

Greg


LOL

I'm sorry. I will try to type slower.

I usually don't have anything to say, But I just got all this info and I had questions.
I guess I get just as confused as you. I try to post in the appropriate title.
Isn't this fun?

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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-06-05 2:00 AM (#480472 - in reply to #480470)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag


Expert

Posts: 1506
1000500
Location: Ontario, Canada
58DeSoDodge59 - 2015-06-05 12:58 AM

LD3 Greg - 2015-06-04 11:36 PM

58DeSoDodge59 - 2015-06-04 6:12 PM

58DeSoDodge59 - 2015-05-30 7:40 PM

Okay guys, here's some more information.


I noticed that the IBM card says "2" under the "ST", but the ID tag on the car it says "9".
Was this a last minute change?




Wow, nobody knows?
I thought you guys knew everything.




Well, maybe someone does!? It seems to me that you have this car/questions in "Members Rides" , "General Discussion" as well as here. Too confusing, at least to me!! Doesn't take all that much to confuse me!!

Greg


LOL

I'm sorry. I will try to type slower.

I usually don't have anything to say, But I just got all this info and I had questions.
I guess I get just as confused as you. I try to post in the appropriate title.
Isn't this fun?



It is Great fun. Search for the truth always is! I completely understand your enthusiasm!

I offered two explanations for your N/A codes. All of us, regardless of how we arrive at our questions/opinions are simply trying to "decode" these cars. Please just tell us +or- whether we got it right or not!! YOUR input is essential for our on-going research. Thanks for your co-operation.

Greg

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d500neil
Posted 2015-06-06 10:44 PM (#480606 - in reply to #480472)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Location: bishop, ca
Kurt, all of the Forwardlook cars have paint/trim data plates whose options-codings are, essentially, unique
to that particular car model...altho there are some shared codes that exist among the various car models.

Decoding a particular car model's P/T plate information is not easy or, intuitive, necessarily.

Gaining access to a car's Build Card (copy) or IBM card (copy) will help a lot, but, even then...you'll
still have to figure out (by luck, and/or by trial-and-error) what any certain option-number-coding might
confirm.

I've spent many years decoding the 55-61 Dodges (the 56'ers are NO fun to try to decode)...

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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2015-07-06 10:38 AM (#483740 - in reply to #480606)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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I can see what you are saying. Apparently they made a lot of mistakes back then.
It seems like, as long as they were close, that was good enough. The reason I say
this is because,(1) The IBM card says "2" under ST, but the Data tag on the car says "9".
(2) If this is truly the Title that came with the car, then it was the wrong one.
The car was made and shipped on July 2, 1958. The Title that was given says
the car was sold at the Dealer on Aug. 14, 1958. So the timing is correct, but the
Title is wrong. The Title has the wrong VIN and it also says that it is a 4door.
So what happened? Did they want a 4 door at first, and do SOME paperwork,
and then change their mind? And then they forgot to change the info for the
new Title? ?



(Title58desoto.jpg)



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bbrasse1
Posted 2015-07-06 6:19 PM (#483773 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag


Extreme Veteran

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Location: Upstate NY
I can appreciate the concern over knowing precisely what the build was for a car you or I have purchased as I have gone down the same unclear path trying to discover maor about my limo that was a special build and then sent to a third party. I am seeing as more people try to make sense of the Chrysler Historical Society info that it wasn't like today. Info and records were not as accurate and answers to questions about specific options and other purchased items don't reflect the build sheet. I guess we have to be happy there is anything like the CHS to ask today what happened 50 or 60 years ago and try to patch in the rest. This car is a prime example of what appears to be a mistake. Maybe you can research the original or second owner to help clarify???
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2015-07-07 12:32 AM (#483799 - in reply to #483740)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



500050005000500010005001001001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
I'd be working this trail backwards to find a survivor who knows anything.

====================================

Obituary

William F. Rellos, the son of the late Frank and Maria Rellos, passed away the morning of Oct. 1, 2007. His wife was at his side.

He was born in Norfolk, VA on June 3, 1922, and reared in Sparta, Greece and brought back to Norfolk, VA along with his one brother and four sisters where he grew up. He was a World War II veteran originally with the 29th Division 111th Field Artillery and participated in the European Theater with Second Infantry Division, in the battles of Normandy, Northern France, Ardennes, Rhineland, Central Europe, and The Battle of the Bulge and ended in Pilsen, Czechoslovakia. He holds the Bronze Star Medal, The European Campaign Medal with Five Bronze Stars.

He was self employed for 32 years in the Restaurant and Lounge business. He was a member of the Greek Orthodox Church, Ahepa # 122, the American Legion Post 327 and Moose Lodge #39.

He is survived by his wife, Julia Rellos; son, William Rellos, Jr.; sisters, Angela Rellos, Elizabeth Begor and Terri R. Fox; nieces and nephews, and loving niece Maria. We will love and miss you until we are together again.

Services and burial were private. Donations may be made in his memory to the Greek Orthodox Church, Norfolk SPCA or a charity of one??(TM)s choice. Condolences may be offered to the family at www.hollomon-brown.com.
- See more at: http://www.hollomon-brown.com/obituary/William-F.-Rellos/Norfolk-VA...

================================================

It is not uncommon for relatives to be helpful with stuff like this and some
will take an active role upon seeing you preserving part of their family history.
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2015-09-05 3:17 PM (#488972 - in reply to #483799)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

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Location: Wild Wonderful
Well I found his son on Facebook. I sent him a message, and he said it was alright to call him. He was happy
to give me any information that he could. Unfortunately he could not shed any light on why the Title was wrong.
I sent him a picture of the car. He confirmed that I had the correct car that he grew up with. He told me all about the car.
He said that his father took care of EVERYTHING that had to do with this car. So any information about buying this car
went with him. See more info under Members Rides, 2014 Merry Christmas to me.

I think that if we had all the information that Chrysler Historical has, even the info of the cars that no longer exist,
then we could figure out all this stuff.
For now it is all about participation. You would think that after some peoples search of 30yrs. we would have more info
on these cars. I guess most people don't care as much about the history as I do. And I hated History class in High School.
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-05-22 3:02 PM (#540614 - in reply to #488972)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

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Location: Wild Wonderful
As you may know, I have two 58 Spring Special DeSotos. Comparing the Data tags, both have a 4 under the B.
Under the ST, one has a 9, the other has a 2. The one with the 9 has an IBM card that shows it was actually a 2.
Can anyone else, who has a Spring Special, confirm these numbers?
My guess is that the 2 under the ST means it is a SS, and the 4 under the B tells the level of optional trim.
I think the 9 on the Data plate was just a miscommunication on the line. Obviously, the guy making the Data plate
did not have the IBM card in front of him.
It's interesting to try and figure out, what the heck these guys were thinking. ? I wonder if the boss came up to
him and said, "Hey Bob, make that a 9 instead of a 2. It will be funny for someone trying to figure it out later".



(58ssdesoto.jpg)



(dataplate58.jpg)



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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-14 1:56 PM (#552233 - in reply to #540614)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

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58 Firesweep tag.

SCH=1021
REG=08
SEQ=703
BDY=412
ST=3
PNT=XBX
TRM=621
TR=2
AH=5
Tracer No. =2 What is this?
Clocks=1
Sweep Mouldings=2
Radio=1
Steering Wheel=1
UC=1
___ & Wipers=1 ?
Tires=13
Axle Ratio=2
Route = 5 What ?



(firesweep.jpg)



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LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-14 4:42 PM (#552237 - in reply to #552233)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag


Expert

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Location: Ontario, Canada
The body plate is coded for: powerflite, heater/defroster, spring special, undercoating and route5 plus a code I don't know.

The axle ratio 2 is 3.15 to one, tires 13 is 5 rayon whitewall 8.00x 14 and route 5 is delivered by truck.

Greg
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-15 8:56 AM (#552269 - in reply to #552237)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

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Location: Wild Wonderful
I will agree with everything but spring special. SCH = 1021, doesn't that mean that it was built
on October 21st 1957 ?


BTW this car was sent to/sold to the dealer James H. Kindel at 294 W. Colorado , Pasadena, California.
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-11-15 12:30 PM (#552278 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Expert

Posts: 3750
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Location: So. California
That dealer building still exists and sells Maserati, Rolls Royce, Porche, Jaguar and other high end cars now.
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-15 4:05 PM (#552302 - in reply to #552278)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

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I figured that you would know all about that dealer.

Wouldn't it be neat to take some photos of the car (all fixed up) on the showroom floor?
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-11-15 4:13 PM (#552305 - in reply to #552302)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Expert

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Location: So. California
That would be neat. You could always take a picture after hours during the summer with the car in the driveway or just in front, on the street. I used to work a block away from there at one point, but not anymore.
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-15 9:44 PM (#552338 - in reply to #552305)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

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These are the numbers for the Spanish Gold & White Firedome. Sold new at Bush Motor Co. , Guntersville, AL
Made and shipped on Dec. 18, 1957 .

SCH=053
SEQ=001
BDY=432
PNT=XUX
TRM=633
TR=3
PS=1
PB=2
RM=7 Is this Roof Moulding ?
UC=1
Solex=7
ACC=2
Axle=3

I think the data tag would look kinda like this; (If it was there)



Edited by 58DeSoDodge59 2017-11-15 10:27 PM




(58desotogold.jpg)



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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-16 5:07 PM (#552426 - in reply to #552338)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

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December 18th. 1957 was the Wednesday, one week before Christmas. When the workers
came in that day, this was the first Firedome they made.

Edited by 58DeSoDodge59 2017-11-16 11:33 PM
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-16 5:28 PM (#552429 - in reply to #552426)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

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Summary of the Schedule.

013=?
018=?
039=?
049=Dec. 5th 1957
053=Dec. 18th 1957
059=Jan. 6th 1958
097=March 26th 1958
149=July 2nd 1958

We know that production, for the 1958 models, ended in July.
And, I know that there were only 529 more Firedomes made after the 149=July 2nd 1958.

Edited by 58DeSoDodge59 2017-11-16 11:34 PM
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-12-02 12:21 AM (#553526 - in reply to #552429)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

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Location: Wild Wonderful
FCA said Region 10 was Kansas City, MO., but Ronbo said that Kansas City is Region 52.

Lancer Mike and I each have a car that started to go to Region 10, but ended up being sold in Colorado.
Does anybody have any ideas?
Maybe region 10 was just a car for stock. (Region 10 was maybe parking lot #10).
Maybe it sat in lot 10 until somebody wanted it.?

Edited by 58DeSoDodge59 2017-12-02 11:06 AM




(ss58ibm.jpg)



(LM IBM card (2).JPG)



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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-12-23 11:58 PM (#554953 - in reply to #552338)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

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Here is the IBM card for the Gold and White Firedome. I love the fact that it has the engine number
and the key numbers. Since it did not come with keys, I can look up the code numbers and cut the keys.
The engine number is the correct number of the one that is still in the car.

Could somebody decode this, and tell me what items are in Accessory Groups 2 and 7 ?
Thank you.



Edited by 58DeSoDodge59 2017-12-24 12:02 AM




(Image (39).jpg)



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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-12-24 10:18 AM (#554964 - in reply to #554953)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

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Location: Wild Wonderful
That might not be Accessory Group 7. I can not read the upper right side of the card, but it
must be the Roof Moulding. I would still like to know what is in Accessory Group 2. ?
I would like to be able to read all the boxes. Does anyone have a readable card, or maybe a hand written card ?


Edited by 58DeSoDodge59 2017-12-24 6:10 PM
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57desoto
Posted 2017-12-26 7:08 AM (#555030 - in reply to #554964)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Expert

Posts: 1332
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Location: New Castle PA
This is from my web site for 1957 DeSotos. I don't know if the ACCESSORY GROUPS are the same for '58, but I don't think there would be a lot of changes between the years since the cars are so alike:

For the FIREDOME, AG #1 included:
heater
white sidewall tires
dual exhaust
ash tray light
trunk light
clock
windshield washer
hand brake signal
outside rear view mirror
prismatic mirror
vanity mirror
airfoam cushion rear

For the FIREDOME, AG #2 included:
all group 1 items PLUS
radio (less searchfinder)
instrument panel cushion

For the FIREDOME, AG #3 included:
all group 1 items PLUS
radio (with searchfinder)
instrument panel cushion

For the FIREFLITE, AG #1 included:
heater
white sidewall tires
radio (less searchfinder)
instrument panel cushion
dual exhaust
clock
windshield washer
rear seat speaker
hand brake signal
outside rear view mirror
prismatic mirror
vanity mirror

For the FIREFLITE, AG #2 included:
all group 1 items PLUS
radio (with searchfinder)
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-12-26 11:42 AM (#555038 - in reply to #555030)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

Posts: 788
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Location: Wild Wonderful
Thanks Edward. I forgot to go back to your website and check it out.
http://www.angelfire.com/de/petrus/index.html
Your website also answers the question about the Roof Moulding #7 question. It is actually
Glamour Group #7, which is, for the 1958 DeSoto, the Front Bumper Guards, Roof Moulding package,
Front fender (gun sight) trim, Rear Bumper side extensions, and Wheel Covers.
I am only going by what is on this car. I don't know if Stone Shields were on there or not.
It is possible that a former owner took them off.
The Glamour Group on your 57s is Category 337, but on my 58 IBM card it is punched out
at 317. Which is the Accessory Group.

This is the updated version of the Data tag, (if it was there).



(58desotogold.jpg)



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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-12-29 9:59 AM (#555160 - in reply to #555038)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

Posts: 788
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Location: Wild Wonderful
Look what I found.



(accgroups.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2017-12-29 10:57 AM (#555175 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Expert

Posts: 3750
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Location: So. California
Where did you get that from? Is that for '58 only or '57 and '59 as well?

Edited by Powerflite 2017-12-29 10:58 AM
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Chrycoman
Posted 2017-12-29 12:45 PM (#555184 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Expert

Posts: 1635
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Location: Vancouver, BC

Reading the fine print at the bottom, this sheet is the first revision of the Accessory Group list, dated January 10, 1958, which superseded the October, 1957 list.

So, this list is for the 1958 models - Firesweep, Firedome and Fireflite. Appears to be from a Ross-Roy manual. Doubttat the 1957 and 1959 groups are identical to the 1958. They usually made some changes based upon what was popular the previous year.



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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-12-29 6:04 PM (#555208 - in reply to #480422)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000100010010025
Location: Queen City of the Plains
Great stuff! That's a good find. I gotta catch up with this thread again!
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Ev's62Chrysler
Posted 2017-12-29 7:44 PM (#555214 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Veteran

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Location: Suwanee, GA
Here's the rest of it.

http://hasselsvensson.se/Desoto%20Bro/desotobro1958_3.htm



And 59:

http://www.autominded.net/brochure/desoto/De%20Soto%201959%20007.jp...


Edited by Ev's62Chrysler 2017-12-29 7:48 PM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-12-30 12:14 PM (#555239 - in reply to #553526)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000100010010025
Location: Queen City of the Plains
58DeSoDodge59 - 2017-12-01 10:21 PM

FCA said Region 10 was Kansas City, MO., but Ronbo said that Kansas City is Region 52.

Lancer Mike and I each have a car that started to go to Region 10, but ended up being sold in Colorado.
Does anybody have any ideas?
Maybe region 10 was just a car for stock. (Region 10 was maybe parking lot #10).
Maybe it sat in lot 10 until somebody wanted it.?


Kurt: I think we would have to see a regional map for De Soto dealers for the 1958 model year. My guess is that the regions were a way to organize the dealers. If an individual dealer had a particular issue, they may have had a regional representative. Maybe the regional representative's job was to track the issues and figure out which issues were local, regional, or corporate problems. Perhaps the regional representative could work directly with the Chrysler Corporation - and the same would be true in reverse.

So my guess is that the two Colorado dealerships who sold our cars were both part of this unknown area of Region 10, and Region 10 was based in Kansas City, MO. The cars may not have even passed through K.C. MO. Tricky to figure out. My guess is that Region 10 for Plymouth dealers may be totally different than Region 10 for Dodge dealers versus Region 10 for Imperial dealers and so on.
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-12-31 11:12 AM (#555297 - in reply to #555239)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

Posts: 788
500100100252525
Location: Wild Wonderful
Lancer Mike - 2017-12-30 12:14 PM

58DeSoDodge59 - 2017-12-01 10:21 PM

FCA said Region 10 was Kansas City, MO., but Ronbo said that Kansas City is Region 52.

Lancer Mike and I each have a car that started to go to Region 10, but ended up being sold in Colorado.
Does anybody have any ideas?
Maybe region 10 was just a car for stock. (Region 10 was maybe parking lot #10).
Maybe it sat in lot 10 until somebody wanted it.?


Kurt: I think we would have to see a regional map for De Soto dealers for the 1958 model year. My guess is that the regions were a way to organize the dealers. If an individual dealer had a particular issue, they may have had a regional representative. Maybe the regional representative's job was to track the issues and figure out which issues were local, regional, or corporate problems. Perhaps the regional representative could work directly with the Chrysler Corporation - and the same would be true in reverse.

So my guess is that the two Colorado dealerships who sold our cars were both part of this unknown area of Region 10, and Region 10 was based in Kansas City, MO. The cars may not have even passed through K.C. MO. Tricky to figure out. My guess is that Region 10 for Plymouth dealers may be totally different than Region 10 for Dodge dealers versus Region 10 for Imperial dealers and so on.



I would love to see a Region map, or a list of the Regions.
Here is my theory. The IBM cards were made at the time the car was manufactured. The Region and Dealer numbers
were typed on the card. But these cars were not ordered by any Dealer. Most cars that were ordered, were shipped
the same day they were built. So, I think that they just put bogus numbers in there until the car had a place to go.
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-12-31 11:16 AM (#555300 - in reply to #555038)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Elite Veteran

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Location: Wild Wonderful
Okay, here is the final draft.
I forgot to put the Color Sweep on the tag.
So now it is complete... I think.



(58desotogold.jpg)



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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-12-31 11:28 AM (#555304 - in reply to #555160)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Wild Wonderful
Here is some add-on information.
Down at the bottom, it tells you some of what is in the Bumper Guard Package, and the Roof Molding Package.
I like how they call it the "simulated rear bumper extensions".



(optionaloption.jpg)



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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-12-31 9:08 PM (#555328 - in reply to #555297)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000100010010025
Location: Queen City of the Plains
58DeSoDodge59 - 2017-12-31 9:12 AM
Here is my theory. The IBM cards were made at the time the car was manufactured. The Region and Dealer numbers
were typed on the card. But these cars were not ordered by any Dealer. Most cars that were ordered, were shipped
the same day they were built. So, I think that they just put bogus numbers in there until the car had a place to go.


That could be! On my punch card, the Region numbers, 1 and 0 appear to be correspondingly punched. The dealer number is weird.
My dealer number should be 39456 and is hand-written in, but the punch card shows 39421 as the next series of punches after the regional 1 and 0.
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