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Current Miss Belvedere Progress
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   Forward Look NON-Technical Discussions -> Miss Belvedere - The Unearthed Tulsarama Plymouth!Message format
 
My57Saratoga
Posted 2008-05-19 9:34 AM (#130560 - in reply to #130544)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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Too bad you weren't there Nathan, as our resident journalist you would have asked all the right questions!

Also, if you're wondering why no photo of the entire car...it's because it's in a 4 bay garage with two other cars. All the materials (worklights, etc) and some parts (hood, for example), for Miss B surround the car and would make a clear shot photo impossible.


Mike

Edited by My57Saratoga 2008-05-19 10:47 AM
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-19 2:08 PM (#130589 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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This idea (of "restoring" the car, or getting it "driveable no-matter-what-the-cost-to-try-to-save-face") is so obscenely
funny, if it weren't so tragic, is beyond belief.

DRIVEABLE?

"PLAYOFFS...Are you kidding me; DRIVEABLE??" (sorry, can't get enuf of that rant by pro-American-football coach Jim Mora!)

How much of the original artifact would have to be destroyed, inn order to make it become "driveable"?

WHOA-----MAJOR 'Nam flashback going on, here; ' this sound familiar? : "We had to destroy the village in order to save it"
- Gen Wm. Westmoreland.







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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-19 2:21 PM (#130592 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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Mark, the present-"exposed" condition of the car, that we are seeing, has absolutely NOTHING to do with the lack of
any "preservation", or rust-treatments that the car 'could' have received immediately after it was un-earthed.

What we are seeing is merely what was HIDDEN from view by the accumulated patina/corrosion/etc that had developed
over 50-years' time.

It took no Superman X-ray vision to know, immediately, that the car was in a state of magnificent desolation, and that it
should have been preserved, as-was, as an historical artifact.

The Family & Ultra-F-U-C-K-Up thought that the car could be financially exploited, but, in the best O. Henry irony, they only
succeeded in destroying any historical, and probably monetary, value that the car may have possessed.







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Rebels-59
Posted 2008-05-19 3:00 PM (#130606 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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After Various Parts are Replaced to turn " Miss Belv " into a Ordinary Rolling Restore, And Ultra and Earned the $$$$ parading it around the Country, WHAT THEN ??????????? As putting it in a Museum THEN ain,t gonna work.. Because FACT,, It ain,t no longer " As it came out of the Tomb " , It is just ANOTHER 57 Plymouth with a FEW Original "Miss Belve" Parts Fitted..

SAD.... So SAD.... $$$$$$$$$ rule the Brain Again , and a Genuine Piece of American History / Artifact is Destroyed in the Process..

.
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FURY
Posted 2008-05-19 11:36 PM (#130700 - in reply to #130492)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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GREAT PICS MIKE!!!!
Well I was told that MoPars of this era never had MoPar batteries, they had Willards or something. Always sounded strange to me, but it was from one of the most respected MoPar gurus on the planet. The Tulsa Plymouth could reveal so many truths-I hope they don't pull her apart too much, or all this history will be lost and reassembled incorrectly.
Was the battery embossed with the MoPar logo? Is there any way we could get to see a pic of that battery in good detail? Do you have any contact with the current caretaker?
Thanks,
Glenn.
57 Fury.
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My57Saratoga
Posted 2008-05-20 7:36 AM (#130731 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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Glenn, the battery does have a MOPAR logo on it...

Mike
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58 DESOTOS RULE
Posted 2008-05-20 12:27 PM (#130757 - in reply to #130731)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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My57Saratoga - 2008-05-20 6:36 AM Glenn, the battery does have a MOPAR logo on it... Mike
Not that it matters NOW, but I wonder why the Tulsarama officials didn't remove the battery before they put the car in the vault? They were supposed to do so according to their own story, but it definatly was still connected when I saw the car in Tulsa at the convention center last year.
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wizard
Posted 2008-05-20 3:13 PM (#130795 - in reply to #130492)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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Nice pictures Mike - it makes me sad to look at them though! I always wanted them to leave her be just as she was found.
It's amazing how the interior is like almost vaporised.
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goldduster360
Posted 2008-05-20 3:33 PM (#130802 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress


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You know there is a point where something is so far gone that is futile to even attempt to rescue it. I would say this poor car falls into the same catergory as the Titanic. It's a shame this one never even really took a maiden voyage. I think it should be sent to rest with the Titanic.

I have been following this story for some time since this car was resurrected. I thought it was nothing more than a ploy for free publicity when Ultra took the car on. I also know from looking at the pics there is no way ever this car will run again with any of it's original parts. How do they plan on driving the pistons out of the cylinder bores? Even the valve covers have rust holes in them. I had a marine engine that sat with water in it for a week and it was nearly impossible to get the pistons out, they were froze solid. How tight do you think that thing is after a fifty year dunk in the water.

While no good deed goes unpunished neither does a ploy for free cheap publicity. Glad I am not involved in any way with this mess
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Nathan D. Manning
Posted 2008-05-20 3:43 PM (#130805 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress


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Welcome to the ForwardLook Network, Bob.
There are several folks here that share your sentiments... and even a few more optimistic views here and there.

As a new member, this is an interesting place to put your first post...
Nonetheless, we look forward to getting to know you better.

Please complete your user profile... Let us know where you're from and what you're into.
Im assuming you have a gold duster with a 360... but please tell us more about yourself.

-NM
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wizard
Posted 2008-05-20 3:45 PM (#130807 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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Welcome to the gang Bob! It would be nice if you update your profile with your location - it would help you and us others. I agree totally with your point of view about Miss Belvedere.
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hemidenis
Posted 2008-05-25 7:32 PM (#131535 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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What a sad view, drivable? What joke, trims, hubcaps, glass and lenses is the only thing drivable. Poor donor Savoy, is not really a donor, Tulsa car is the real donor here. What a f**k up owner she encountered after 50 years in the water.

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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-25 10:57 PM (#131554 - in reply to #131535)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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Yeah, it's sad and ironic how stupid and greedy the winning Family was, in relation to what shall have become of the car, compared to what the car represented in its as-unearthed condition.





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lawrence
Posted 2008-05-25 11:56 PM (#131558 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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It could have been worse



(Miss Belvedere.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Miss Belvedere.jpg (70KB - 2227 downloads)
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Nathan D. Manning
Posted 2008-05-26 11:53 AM (#131624 - in reply to #131558)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress


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lawrence - 2008-05-25 11:56 PM

It could have been worse :laugh:


That's freakin' hilarious, Larry.
Good one!

(Did you photoshop that... or is it from the Boyd archives? LOL)

-NM
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lawrence
Posted 2008-05-26 11:57 AM (#131625 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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I borrowed it from photobucket
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hemidenis
Posted 2008-05-26 12:46 PM (#131635 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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Larry that was exactly that i was expecting to find, but with the block and trans in the bottom. We all get something good of all this tragedy, and is that Mopar batteries came with the car when new, (Opps Gary), you have to retype you catalog :), and second you don’t give a piece of history (to someone who never was interested in old cars) to do whatever he want with it.

Edited by hemidenis 2008-05-26 12:47 PM
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Rainer
Posted 2008-06-19 4:35 AM (#134781 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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I think that Biss B. comes with a bad engine and the deales says, okay, what possibilities we have.... LET's find a grave for it.

After months of waiting for Miss Belvedere and see what they did I'm shocked!

At the beginning they have 2 possibilities. First to

x) put it into a Museum and let it as it is, maybe like a light bulb under glas with a special gas inside to stop rust
x) made a FULL restore of the car, paint it in Chistine red, tint the glases black and go to the next Plymouth meeting

What they did is bad to the history, it's the same if your dog die, he is dead you should not try to wash his coat put something inside and stay it next to your bed, or give him new feets to make it "drive...." ahhh sorry, I mean "walkable"....

Please do not misunderstand me, I love the 57 and 58 Plymouth and I'm very happy if I see anyone drive around, but there are some borders who should not be overshoot....


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d500neil
Posted 2008-06-19 6:40 PM (#134837 - in reply to #134781)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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Yes, Ranier, and the tragedy is that is IS too late, now, to save the car as an historical artifact.

If the car is cobbled-together, somehow, it's going to be a laughingstock Frankenstein-mobile......

I say: put it out of its misery, now, and just part-it-out.





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FURY
Posted 2008-06-19 6:53 PM (#134841 - in reply to #134837)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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I'll take the stainless moldings and the glass....!

Edited by FURY 2008-06-19 6:54 PM
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hemidenis
Posted 2008-06-19 8:10 PM (#134862 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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dont forget the lenses and hubcaps, and the crack free steering wheel!!!

Edited by hemidenis 2008-06-19 8:11 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2008-06-19 9:38 PM (#134876 - in reply to #134862)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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There are quite a few really nice individual parts on her; look at the vent window assemblies..
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58 DESOTOS RULE
Posted 2008-06-21 4:08 PM (#135106 - in reply to #134841)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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FURY - 2008-06-19 5:53 PM I'll take the stainless moldings and the glass....! :)

Isn't the glass etched beyond repair by the action of the water over the years? On the other hand, the stainless mouldings should still be good and maybe the chrome bumpers as well. One of Codpiece's grease monkeys tried to shine a bit of the front bumper for the unveiling at the arena on the 15th of June last year.





(6-17-2007-22 Cropped Bumper Resized.jpg)



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Attachments 6-17-2007-22 Cropped Bumper Resized.jpg (63KB - 550 downloads)
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Rebels-59
Posted 2008-06-21 7:22 PM (#135115 - in reply to #135106)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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??????



(7.jpg)



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1955Coronado
Posted 2008-06-21 7:48 PM (#135127 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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Nice one, Clive.
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lawrence
Posted 2008-06-29 6:58 PM (#135980 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNPx8jKX1fA

Posted by our friend Manos on CCC. Looks like something I'd be willing to go back to Tulsa to see again.
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lawrence
Posted 2008-06-30 5:48 PM (#136060 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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I'd like to go back and see the car with the dirt rinsed off of it. Looks like D White just wants to clean it up some. Surely Neil doesn't have a problem with that
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57plymouth
Posted 2008-07-01 7:39 AM (#136120 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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I don't have a problem with that. And I hate the thought of restoring it more than Neil.

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d500neil
Posted 2008-07-01 2:46 PM (#136155 - in reply to #136120)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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Yeah, right; I wouldn't mind going back to T-town, but if I never see whatever comes out of Ultra-F-Up, again,
I'll still die contented...at least I got to see what it REALLY looked like, after lying for 50 years, in its dungeon.





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Nathan D. Manning
Posted 2008-07-01 3:03 PM (#136156 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress


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I dunno...

I was pleasantly surprised to see how well the car responded to being lifted so far off the ground again.
Wonder how they were able to do that without buckling what's left of the frame?

Also, the clean-up job DOES look pretty impressive.
Not to sound like I'm crossing over, but the story leads me to believe the car MAY actually be in good hands.

It will never be "perfect" again... nor will it ever be untouched.
Meanwhile, I think it could still make a nice touring artifact or museum display in the future.

-NM

Edited by Nathan D. Manning 2008-07-01 3:04 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2008-07-01 3:45 PM (#136159 - in reply to #136156)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Well, how much of the original car would you be willing to accept as representing the actual car that went INTO the dungeon?

Why not display any-olde 57 Plymmie, and say that "this" is what Ms. Belvie (kinda) looked like, when she was entombed?

Adding ANYTHING to the car ruins its originality, and it was in original condition, up until 6/15/07.

It could be argued that removing the patina reveals her "real-condition".

What does ADDING anything to her prove ? That it CAN be done? Whoopee.








Edited by d500neil 2008-07-01 3:47 PM
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Nathan D. Manning
Posted 2008-07-01 4:33 PM (#136172 - in reply to #136159)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress


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d500neil - 2008-07-01 3:45 PM
It could be argued that removing the patina reveals her "real-condition".


Whoa, Neil...
Calm down and grab a paper bag to breathe into before you have a conniption hemhorrage!

It COULD also be argued that removing the car from the ground (and it's "protective" bag) also compromised the "real condition". Should she have been left in the hole, too? Reburied perhaps? I think not.

What's done is done... and (perhaps unfortunately) what's undone is just that as well.

I'm not keen on the notion of replacing any parts... Meanwhile, I can see the value of cleaning the car enough to show what's left of the original paint, etc.

-NM

Edited by Nathan D. Manning 2008-07-01 4:43 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2008-07-01 4:55 PM (#136175 - in reply to #136172)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Yeah, hehheh; I was NOT as 'exercised' as my typing might suggest, above; there SHOULD be an icon
designating resigned-disgust-and-frustration, as opposed to mere righteous anger...

What will Ms. Belvie's new-name be : FRANKEN-car???? Robo-car? Miss Zombie? Oklahoma CRUDE????


How about : CHRISTINE-AH ?






Edited by d500neil 2008-07-01 5:02 PM
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Nathan D. Manning
Posted 2008-07-02 12:01 PM (#136248 - in reply to #136175)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress


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d500neil - 2008-07-01 4:55 PM
What will Ms. Belvie's new-name be : FRANKEN-car???? Robo-car? Miss Zombie? Oklahoma CRUDE????


I vote for "CRUST-ine"!


-NM
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dukeboy
Posted 2008-07-02 12:45 PM (#136253 - in reply to #136248)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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Just sucks it was a 2dr hd top in that hole in the ground.....She coulda been a contenda'..

Converted to '58, painted red and white, Crust-tine lives!
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1955Coronado
Posted 2008-10-05 7:38 AM (#146956 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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So - about 3 months and no progress reports whatsoever.

Think she's in pieces now? Waiting for a grand unveiling?

Just being lazy?
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d500neil
Posted 2008-10-05 8:09 PM (#147014 - in reply to #146956)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Mark, no news is....no news.

Ultra F-Up will forever be known as being the person/company that was too greedy-stupid to
leave the car alone, and which attempted to
alter its appearance, for its own promotional gain, at the expense of a unique historical artifact.

Scroom.

But, how do I really feel, about this matter?












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dukeboy
Posted 2008-10-05 9:26 PM (#147021 - in reply to #147014)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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Neil, they prolly got that d@mn thing running by now.....I bet you'd sh*t if they did....
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d500neil
Posted 2008-10-05 10:17 PM (#147023 - in reply to #147021)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Yeah, Chaney; you got THAT right...

The interior, alone, just needed a dab of Ultra-None's "Magic Time-Travel" elixr.

Suddenly: it's 1957....





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chrysler300c
Posted 2008-10-05 11:47 PM (#147037 - in reply to #147023)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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Here is a link to some recent info with video:

miss belevedere

George

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1955Coronado
Posted 2008-10-05 11:55 PM (#147038 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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Thanks, George.

Unfortunately, that's from about 3 1/2 months ago - my curiosity stems from wanting to find out exactly what the hell Ultra One is trying to hide, especially after being promised regular updates.
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DeSotoDiva
Posted 2008-10-06 12:59 PM (#147072 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress


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I loosely followed the Miss Belvedere saga and I have a couple of questions. Firstly, has anyone here tried this Ultra-One derusting agent? The photos on their website look pretty convincing as to how well it works. Second, who is this Steve Hobby? His name has been associated with this topic quite a bit.
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alumcanTandThd
Posted 2008-10-06 5:25 PM (#147105 - in reply to #147072)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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DeSotoDiva - 2008-10-06 12:59 AM

Second, who is this Steve Hobby? His name has been associated with this topic quite a bit.


Oh, GOOD LORD! Here comes the 'fireworks' I'm heading for the fallout shelter! Be back up in a year or so, after this dies down. (or I run outta moonshine. Whichever comes first) I surly don't want to be caught in the 'crossfire'

Since you are a newbie,,,,,

To some, this guy is a saint, and will give the shirt off his back.
To others, he is worse than holy hell itself, and will take the shirt off your back.
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dukeboy
Posted 2008-10-06 7:16 PM (#147136 - in reply to #147072)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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DeSotoDiva - 2008-10-06 12:59 PM

Second, who is this Steve Hobby? His name has been associated with this topic quite a bit.



Search WAY back in the forums, and you be the judge....I wasn't here for the "Hobby" fiasco, but heard it was bad.......
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DeSotoDiva
Posted 2008-10-06 9:23 PM (#147152 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress


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Well, I still do not see where Steve Hobby or Dwight Foster have done anything wrong where Miss Belvedere is concerned. I do not know these gentlemen and I will not pass judgement on them, yet. Maybe I am naive, but what has happened here?
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59savoy
Posted 2008-10-13 11:52 AM (#147948 - in reply to #147152)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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there's only one way i know of to get off the "concrete" without destroying the metal from overscrubbing.

my pickup gets bugs baked on over the course of the summer.  likewise, the same oklahoma clay collects on my vehicles just like it did the belvy.  however, i've noticed that on mornings when the cars are drenched in dew, all the baked-on goo is easily removable.  the car must be kept for some time in an atmosphere with 100% humidity (like the one it stayed in for half a century?) to soften the stuff up.  just wetting it with a hose doesn't do the trick.  it's gotta get wet and STAY wet, so that the goo is permeated by moisture.

how you "re-frame" a car that rusted a rear spring in half without moving is beyond me, though.

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canuckfins
Posted 2008-10-13 8:37 PM (#148018 - in reply to #147948)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress


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I agree 59savoy.Dwight said to me when I visited Miss B. that they should have kept her wet when they pulled her out of the "tomb".Kinda like when divers recover artifacts from the sea,they immediately imerse the artifacts back into water to avoid further damage.
The Tulsa organizers probably did not know that the mud would harden up like it did.
This makes Dwight's job three time harder (no pun intended! LOl)
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1960fury
Posted 2008-10-14 8:01 AM (#148058 - in reply to #147105)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress



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alumcanTandThd - 2008-10-06 5:25 PM



To some, this guy is a saint, .


a SAINT?! to whom?! one has to be pretty sick to consider hobby as a saint.
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DeSotoDiva
Posted 2008-10-14 7:41 PM (#148188 - in reply to #148058)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress


Account Suspended (Steve Hobby / Matt Aker Alias)

Posts: 10

Location: Kinzua Country Pennsylvania
1960fury - 2008-10-14 8:01 AM

alumcanTandThd - 2008-10-06 5:25 PM



To some, this guy is a saint, .


a SAINT?! to whom?! one has to be pretty sick to consider hobby as a saint.


Could you elaborate just a wee bit on what you said? Or are you a simple keyboard bully. I simply want to know what all of the ruffled feathers are about. Does Hobby work for U-1? Mr. Canuck, what is your take on the condition of the car?

No offense boys, I'm just curious.
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canuckfins
Posted 2008-10-16 12:30 AM (#148409 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress


Account Suspended (Steve Hobby / Leaburn Patey Alias)

Posts: 18

DesotoDiva,the car's frame is toast.However,the floor pans survived.Being under water,the highest points like over the rear axle and under the front fenders are MINT.Probably from air pockets.
Visiting her in August,and seeing some work done,the Ultra One product does work.
The car is an artifact.A museum piece.As a car she is in tough shape,but as a 50-year publicity stunt,she is a sucsess.I had seen cars in worse condition get restored up here in the Great White North!
Mr.Hobby does not work for Ultra One but like me a firm believer in the product.I have been using it on my Newport project with positive results.
MY visit with Miss B was special...I was not alone either,all the people in 1957 who signed the tires,touched and sat on her,and watched get buried were there..Creepy feeling but a good one.

Edited by canuckfins 2008-10-16 12:31 AM
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