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| I have a 58 torqueflite that was just rebuilt, I got my car out and took her on the highway, at 55 mph for about 7 miles, and upon coming home I checked the fluid and it was low, quite obvious it puked it out the filler tube as it was still dripping...I searched the trans thread and see blockage can cause this but I blew out the cooler lines beforehand and I know the breather's open (I can hear air passing through it when I add fluid). The manual says the #1 cause is overfilling, which I can see...I probably had too much fluid in it...BUT would overfilling cause it to lose MORE than just the excess fluid?
The level went down to the point that it started being delayed shifting, just a bit on the end of the dipstick, way below the add line. It seemed to only do it after being highway speed, I've driven it at 30 mph quite a bit, on gravel, and it didn't lose any then... just at higher speeds, like 55mph and up. Any ideas??
Edited by 58dodgeregent 2007-05-30 9:04 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2011
Location: Ballwin, Missouri | Jeff, The only other thing I can think of is overheating. I installed a transmission
for a friend of mine and his cooler lines were bad so he got some different
cooler lines for me to install. After we got it all together, every time he would
drive it about 10 miles or more it would push over half of the fluid out of the
filler tube. Come to find out, the cooler lines he brought me had layed in a barn
for several years and a "mud dobber' type wasp had made a nest about 12 inches
up inside of one of the tubes and completely blocked it off. Maybe your cooler is to
small or something else is causing the trans. to overheat at highway speeds.
Just a thought !?!?!???? I'm sure someone else on the site has had this problem and may have
some other suggestions. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: Pau, S-W France | Hi,
This fluid puking is also one of my main nightmare !!!! On some trans. i rebuilt ther's this problem, only when starting the engine after some days, on other transmisison no problem !!
Here is the facts on my car : the trans is rebuilt and if i start after 2 or 3 days (with a higher level in the oil pan cause converter drainback), after 10 or 15 s the fluid spits from filler tube (and fall on exhaust manifold -> smoke etc..). First i think that there was a problem with the breather. When i rebuilt another trans i took a look at the gasket between trans and extension, YES, there was no breather hole cut in the gasket .. So i remove the extension of my trans, cut the hole and .. no improvement !
Please note that this problem doesn't occur when trans is hot or after a trip, only after drainback converter.
My solution wasn't a technical answer : i slide a hose on the tube gauge and this hose is attached to a small plastic "bottle" in front of the radiator yoke.
Ther's also a "Chrysler bulletin" about that, see pics attached
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| RoyalGate, If it's overheating, I don't get why it would do it at higher speeds but not 30 mph...but I suppose it's working harder at higher speeds. I made sure those lines are clear, and I'm using about a 12" by 8" aftermarket cooler. Now, I never did blow out the cooler, it was used (barely)...hmmm, better check that!
Phil, I thought of that too, having a bottle and hose hooked to the filler tube...OR, what would happen if I made a secure, sealing plug to fit in the end of the tube so it CAN'T come puking up...or use the dipstick and make it seal but still make it removable...would it come out somewhere else then, like the breather?? For example many newer GM transmissions have that cam-type locking end on the dipstick, and they seem to tighten and seal it up very well.
I hate to say it but I wish I'd never used this old powertrain.
Edited by 58dodgeregent 2007-05-31 9:25 AM
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Member
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| i did not know there was a vent on the transmission, you learn somethin new everyday..
You know i had a ford that overheated if you went too fast..It was because i had no thermostat. The air wouldnt cool the water in the radiator because the water would flow too fast without a thermostat. Once i put a 160 type stat the problem went away. |
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Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Warren, Michigan | As for capping off the tube so it doesn't puke out... I wouldn't do that to my tranny. Seems like there is a vent because we don't want pressure building up inside of it.
The fluid could flow out of the vent if the pressure does build, but that kind of defeats the purpose of putting the cap in.
If it doesn't flow out of the vent and pressure builds up, you'll probably have some new issues (large boom resulting in a larger paper weight that you have to drag home)
I'd check your cooler to make sure its clear and add the bottle until the real problem can be found.
Good luck! I hate working on Trans problems.
--Joe |
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Veteran
Posts: 228
Location: Centerville, SD | BUT would overfilling cause it to lose MORE than just the excess fluid?
Overfilling can cause the fluid to foam up with air bubbles. When the air bubbles are settled out the level could be way low. I would carefully fill it to the proper level and try it again after you verify that the cooler and lines are free. Does the fluid smell burned?
Edited by plypete 2007-05-31 2:34 PM
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Location: Ponder, TX | Years ago, I also experienced a puking PowerFlite on a well-broken-in '58 Plymouth. No overheating...properly filled...and at 50mph, about 2 quarts suddenly spewed all over the engine compartment and on the windshield. After re-filling, it never happened again, and the car was driven probably another 50,000 miles without any transmission problems. Go figure. |
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| Wow, I appreciate the responses. I believe I have the problem corrected....I still don't know what happened or what I did to stop it, other than my only guess is, it is in fact possible that it CAN puke out more than what is the right amount. I checked the cooler - it was fine. I followed the checking fluid level section of the shop manual meticulously, ended up adding some then draining some fluid a few times until I got the level right. They say the best way to check it is when cold, and the level should be 1/2" below the low line, up to the low line, but NOT ABOVE, so I got it to 1/2" below (the minimum). Then I took it out and got it warmed up after about 6 miles, checked it again-it was right on the LOW line so I added about a quart in total, after driving it and checking it in about 1/4 mile intervals. Finally I got to the point where it stabilized at just over halfway between low and full marks, after a 13 mile trip at 55-60 mph. To make a long story short, these trannys obviously are VERY finicky about the level!!! I've never seen this, any other trans, if there's too much fluid it'll just puke out what it doesn't need, and it's good to go. In hindsight one thing I messed up was, when checking the level, cold, THE ENGINE MUST BE RUNNING AT 'NORMAL' RPM, NOT HIGH IDLE. I didn't think of that at the time. Like I said before, I wish I'd have said to hell with this very expensive (final cost of engine and trans - $3000 EACH), troublesome, finicky, obsolete old powertrain and dropped in an LA 318/727 and be done with it. If not for this forum and the shop manual, I'd be completely lost with no other options. |
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| huggerorange - 2007-06-01 9:30 AM
i did not know there was a vent on the transmission, you learn somethin new everyday..
You know i had a ford that overheated if you went too fast..It was because i had no thermostat. The air wouldnt cool the water in the radiator because the water would flow too fast without a thermostat. Once i put a 160 type stat the problem went away.
Funny, an local old timer told me a similar story, this was about the ford flathead...is that what yours was? Back in the day guys thought they'd solve the cooling problem by removing the thermostat...which ironically must have cooked a lot of engines.  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: Pau, S-W France | Just another "Chrysler Bulletin" about the correct dimensions of the transmission dipstick. The bulletin is in french (they says that these dimensions must be checked because there were complaints about this problem : too low level so problems with trans. ..) but dimensions are in inches !
Note also that they were TWO dipsticks in 1957 because there was a longer oil filler tube during model year on Chrysler and Imperial models only. The early tube (and dipstick) was too short and it was a pain to replace the dipstick in the tube (interfere with heater fan motor and engine) so they made a new longer tube and dipstick. I have the "up to " and "after" VIN. On my car i made the upgrade ..
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Location: Ballwin, Missouri | huggerorange - 2007-05-31 10:30 AM
i did not know there was a vent on the transmission, you learn somethin new everyday..
You know i had a ford that overheated if you went too fast..It was because i had no thermostat. The air wouldnt cool the water in the radiator because the water would flow too fast without a thermostat. Once i put a 160 type stat the problem went away.
Removing the thermostat was and is a common mistake made by drag racers. I, and
several other of my race buddies, would take out the thermostat, thinking it would help
the engine to run cooler. In fact, just the opposite happened, the water is pushed through
the radiator so fast it doesn't have time to cool properly.
When drag racing we like to cool the engine between rounds and want it to cool down
as fast as possible because of the short interval between the last few rounds. I found out
that if I installed a 160 Deg. thermostat that my cooling during a race and the return to
the pits was improved. But the thermostat would close completely at 160 deg. and I couldn't
cool the engine down below that with my electric fan and water pump drive. I made a thin
steel shim with an 1/8 inch hole in it and used that in place of the thermostat. I then just kept
enlarging the hole until I got the desired operation of the cooling system. If I remember correctly
I ended up with about a 3/8" hole and two 1/8' holes on each side of it. That slowed the water
down enough so it would cool down while going through the radiator but also let water circulation
while using the electric pump and fan in the pits, ( engine off).
I could cool down from 190 deg. to under 100 deg. in
about 5 min. I also used a huge hgh effeciency radiator and the biggest fan I could buy.
BUT YOU DO NEED SOME TYPE OF RESTRICTION IN THE COOLING SYSTEM TO ALLOW THE
WATER TO COOL PROPERLY. |
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Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Warren, Michigan | Well, all this talk about thermostats have me thinking....
When I got my car it didn't have one in it, so I popped up to autozone and installed one off the shelf that was supposed to be the right unit. It fit but was a little on the small sizein my estimation. I couldnt push it into the hole or anything so i put the goose neck back on.
My car continued to overheat so I popped off the goose neck to check on the thermostat. It had twisted and turned in the gooseneck so it was vertical. I pulled it out and it runs cooler than ever...
Do you guys think I should track down a correct one and install it? The engine temp stays low so what would be the problem?
--Joe |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
Location: Northern North Carolina | Hello all. An update on Edna Christine, the '57 Belvedere. And guess why she's in this particular thread... . 
For those of you who followed the saga of the f*cked up "engine rebuild", good news! After the 3rd camshaft (!), um, the correct one, was installed, that seemed to fix the problem. Then I brought the car home, at Christmas, and there was the whole issue of the mysterious high-pitched squeal, that suggested a plugged muffler. Everyone seemed to think it was the muffler, which made sense, and the mechanic agreed....till he listened to it a second time. The problem turned out to be...how bizarre..."closed points". Took 10 minutes to fix. 
The muffler was fine. [I'll post a short "outcome" post in that old thread, in case the same thing happens to someone else and they need the info].
The mechanic called me after diagnosing the points issue, and said "I got her up to 80 today, she runs great!".
I went for a test drive with the mechanic before bringing the car home, she ran like a top, and got to 60mph in a hurry (I wasn't quite up to doing "80" on this country road, with no tags!). Brought the car home a second time, and have started it up regularly and driven it 4 times in the last month and a half. Have had it up to 70mph, engine seems to run fine; it accelerates quickly. It's me "backing off at 70", not the car.
Purrs at idle, no smoke at all. Thank God! Do you know how long it's taken to be able to type "engine runs great" re this car? Yow.
....and now we get to the transmission. *sigh* (Guess we'd all be driving Camry's if we wanted low-maintenance cars, huh?)
When I picked the car up, the day I did the test drive with the mechanic, he mentioned a possible trans leak, but he thought it seemed minor (like everyone else, he wondered if the trans was just puking up excess, or maybe the old seals just needed a little softening, after I reported the big fluid dump that occurred during the high-pitched whine phase). He put a bottle of Lucas in it, told me to make sure to let the car warm up thoroughly ( half an hour), to let the Lucas treatment heat up and seal any leaks. Since then, I've been going thru the same routine of check fluid level, add fluid, monitor fluid, drive, watch the fluid get puked out, add fluid, monitor, drive... . On one (and only one) of the short drives, the transmission didn't want to shift from neutral to drive (actually it slipped into neutral while driving), but that quickly resolved, and all shifting/driving has been smooth since that one brief episode.
I read here that the trans fluid level should be checked with the car running (obviously) but not hot (true?). It seems pretty consistent that when I check the fluid 1 minute after car is started, fluid level shows as very very low to bone dry. A few minutes later, when the car is warm, a little fluid shows on the dipstick, but still far below the "add" level. I add fluid, a little at a time, no leaks. Then drive the car. Don't know what it does as it's going down the road at 50mph, but sitting & idling, it doesn't appear to leak.....for awhile. The hotter it seems to get, the more likely it seems to leak, i.e it leaks after I get back from the drive. Once the leak gets going, it's more like a "pour" than a "drip". Doesn't appear to be coming from the fill tube . Looks like coming from underneath, but without a rack, can't see where. Seems to keep leaking till it empties. I added a second bottle of Lucas trans treatment after the first time it all leaked out, and let that warm up. The trans dumped fluid everywhere after I returned from the short 2 mile drive. Today I checked it cold again--- nothing showing on the dipstick. Five minutes later, it showed maybe 3/8th of an inch up on the dipstick, which is way below the "add" level.
Hmmmm.
Sam
........................
1956 Pontiac StarChief
1957 Plymouth Belvedere
1961 Ford Fairlane
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Account deactivated by owner's request
Location: On this barrel | Maybe it has the rare "tranny pig flu"? |
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Expert
Posts: 3393
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | You have to get this up in the air and see exactly what the area/source is and post back, just did 2 Powerflites recently for leaks and reverse issues. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
Location: Northern North Carolina | Shep - 2009-05-01 4:01 PM
You have to get this up in the air and see exactly what the area/source is
I know. I'm just so excited about the prospect of paying for what will be the 4th tow truck bill since Christmas. That's $400 on nothing but rollbacks. Oh well, I only got to drive it about 100 yards in between tow trips 1-3. This time I've at least gotten to enjoy the "extensive road trip"....I've probably logged in a whole 4 miles of driving since that 3rd tow. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
Location: Northern North Carolina | Update: The '57 Belvedere still won't hold trans fluid, so she's got to go to the shop. I can't see where the leak is till I get it up on a lift. It's not puking fluid from the dipstick; it's all from underneath--- just can't see exactly where. Per recommendations, as a "try this first, nothing to lose" measure, I put in a bottle of Lucas transmission treatment, topped it off with trans fluid. While idling? Ok....mild drips, but not bad. Sometimes it will idle without any noticable leaks. Drive it down the driveway. Ok. All hell seems to break loose when I put it into reverse. Not jerking (trans shifts fine, into all gears), but putting it in reverse seems to be what triggers the fluid to pour out. I have a big trail of fluid stains down my 1000 foot driveway....all from the trip back up the driveway in reverse. I put in another bottle of Lucas, topped it off with fluid---- my mechanic said "see if you can keep that Lucas in there, let her get good and warm and see if it'll hold". No dice. Exactly the same as before. I already had a bottle of Sea Foam (was highly recommended) so I tried that. Same thing, exactly. There really isn't much of a drip now, as she sits and idles, or if I drive it in Drive or Low. Shifting into reverse is the trigger--- fluid begins to pour out.
Just waiting till I get the money to have her towed to the transmission shop. At least I've gotten consistent recommendations on the best ("only") trans shop to go to....unfortunately, it's about 40 miles away. Wish me luck. |
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| Man, that sucks...hope the problem gets solved. At least, when it comes to Power/Torqueflites, as finicky as they can be, are still regarded by many as one of the finest, toughest transmissions ever built. Your car, and mine at one time, reminds me of the new Tim Mcgraw song, "it's a business doing pleasure with you"(our cars)!!! The song's about dating a very high maintenence woman.
Edited by 58dodgeregent 2009-08-05 12:56 AM
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Regular
Posts: 65
Location: Tampa, Fla. | I've had a reserve light switch crack and leak fluid like a faucet. Put the car up on jack stands and check the switch. |
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fluid puking!
