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Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards
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   Forward Look NON-Technical Discussions -> 1955-1961 Forward Look MoPar General DiscussionMessage format
 
1960fury
Posted 2018-10-16 2:34 PM (#571797 - in reply to #571796)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Powerflite - 2018-10-16 2:23 PM

Neglecting the small change in rolling resistance due to extra weight on the bearings and tires


The subject is Daytona BEACH. Try to pull a handcart on sand, empty and loaded and try to keep it at a certain speed and tell me again, that the effect of weight on rolling resistance is small.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-10-16 3:43 PM (#571799 - in reply to #571797)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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1960fury - 2018-10-16 2:34 PM
The subject is Daytona BEACH. Try to pull a handcart on sand, empty and loaded and try to keep it at a certain speed and tell me again, that the effect of weight on rolling resistance is small.


Actually, the original Andy Granatelli 300F post related to the Bonneville salt flats but I am sure that the issues are the same. As for tires, on the salt, wider is not better (yypical Bonneville tire (left) compared with performance street tire (right).):

REFERENCE: https://saltflats.com/traction.html



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-10-16 3:45 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-16 5:45 PM (#571807 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Anyway, I wonder why they only achieved 190 mph with a blown 2x4bbl 413 822 hp monster. Richard Petty was clocked 155 mph with a NA 383 with a stock (!) intake manifold and a SINGLE stock (525-550 cfm) carter carburetor in a 60 Plymouth.

Edited by 1960fury 2018-10-16 5:46 PM
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-10-16 9:32 PM (#571826 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards


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are you calling Richard Petty a liar?
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hemidave
Posted 2018-10-17 6:10 AM (#571848 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Plymouth wagon



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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-17 9:20 AM (#571855 - in reply to #571826)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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mikes2nd - 2018-10-16 9:32 PM

are you calling Richard Petty a liar? :)


Do you? These are the official times taken during a race, not a flying mile high speed contest, and not taken by Richard/Lee Petty. Other cars were almost as fast. And I can attest, that 150 mph with a 383 60 Plymouth are very easily within reach. (Running a better intake, a modified 750cfm Holley and other mods that were not yet availble in 1960 though)

Edited by 1960fury 2018-10-17 2:33 PM
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hemidave
Posted 2018-10-18 7:40 AM (#571895 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Ads



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Adventurer 60
Posted 2018-10-18 4:13 PM (#571931 - in reply to #571743)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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1960fury - 2018-10-15 4:20 PM

Funny thing, they^ didn't use the best (and free to boot) high speed trick to reduce wind resistance on these cars, which is to adjust the hood hinges in the highest possible position. Helps cooling the engine bay too and still looks better than the useless tape everywhere.


I think taping is to keep windshiled molding in place at high speed.
In 1961 Daytona flying mile race four of first 5 G:s were disqualified because their windshield moldings flew off during the race.
I quess they did not use duct tape that year

Edited by Adventurer 60 2018-10-18 4:14 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-18 6:16 PM (#571934 - in reply to #571931)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Count the FL's in the second pic. Rare.

Edited by 1960fury 2018-10-18 6:20 PM




(60ny.jpg)



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hemidave
Posted 2018-10-19 12:03 PM (#571966 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-19 8:20 PM (#572001 - in reply to #571966)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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.



(57pl1950s-Mercedes-Gullwing.jpg)



(57ch.jpg)



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hemidave
Posted 2018-10-20 8:28 AM (#572028 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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hemidave
Posted 2018-10-22 8:08 AM (#572155 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-22 8:54 AM (#572158 - in reply to #572155)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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1958 Adventurer Convertible!!! One of xx ?



(1958ADventurerCVT.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2018-10-22 8:45 PM (#572193 - in reply to #572158)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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One of 82 built.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2018-10-22 8:49 PM (#572194 - in reply to #572193)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Note, this Adventurer appears to be a white car with black top and
color sweep. I have read it here that the original six-colors-combination
(gold, white, black, pick two) was discontinued after 1957 and that white
and gold or black and gold were the only choices.
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Sonoramic60
Posted 2018-10-22 10:04 PM (#572201 - in reply to #572194)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards


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Sid --
That "Royal Pontiac" is the iconic Pontiac dealership of Asa "Ace" Wilson whom Jim Wangers of GTO fame tapped to produce the nasty "Royal Bobcats" of 1959 and later years. In fact, Wangers' had two Super Duty Ponchos in the the 1960 NHRA Nationals, a 4-speed manual for S/S and a 4-speed Hydramatic for S/SA. Al Eckstrand beat the S/SA car in his '60 Fury SonoRamic to win the S/SA class, but just barely lost in the Top Stock Elimination final to the S/S car, which I have heard still exists.
I feel sorry for that poor little DeSoto ragtop parked at the curb in front of those two Catalina 2-dr posts with the 8-bolt aluminum wheels which I doubt were Aunt Abby's and Old Man Jones's "Sunday-go-to Meetin' Cars."
That is a great photo of historical importance to an old hot rodder like me. Where did you ever find it?
Joe Godec
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hemidave
Posted 2018-10-23 7:32 AM (#572206 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-23 8:15 AM (#572208 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Joe, yes, I thought the same, a 4-5 year old Desoto in hostile environment. I'm on Pinterest, which is a great place for old pictures. Here's my Pinterest page:


https://www.pinterest.de/desper81/mid-century/
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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-23 8:19 AM (#572209 - in reply to #572193)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Doctor DeSoto - 2018-10-22 8:45 PM

One of 82 built.


So, unless it has been posted before, I probably shot down the rarest FL in this thread so far.

I suddenly remember I posted a small pic with a 58 Fireflite convertible partially visible (in Ashland or Ashville?) some time ago. Is the Fireflite cvt rarer?

Edited by 1960fury 2018-10-23 8:23 AM
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spinout
Posted 2018-10-23 9:49 AM (#572212 - in reply to #572209)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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1960fury - 2018-10-23 5:19 PM
So, unless it has been posted before, I probably shot down the rarest FL in this thread so far.

I suddenly remember I posted a small pic with a 58 Fireflite convertible partially visible (in Ashland or Ashville?) some time ago. Is the Fireflite cvt rarer?


No, a '58 Fireflite cnv isn't rarer than Adventurer cnv.... 474 Flites made.

I posted the picture of that '58 Adventurer few years ago, not a whole photo showing Pontiac dealership, but cropped and zoomed in it and we discussed
then about its rusted rockers as it was just 4 years old car and its non-original wheelcovers. I remember so.

Edited by spinout 2018-10-23 10:10 AM
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58 DESOTOS RULE
Posted 2018-10-23 10:47 AM (#572214 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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I'll bet the street address at this location is 77 Sunset Strip. :-D Efram Zimbalist Jr. played a private eye in a TV show called 77 Sunset Strip in the very early 1960s and he had a suite of offices next door to Dino's Lodge (which had the Edd "Kookie" Burns as valet parking attendant)





(1957 Chryser Dino_s Lodge.jpg)



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Chrycoman
Posted 2018-10-23 12:03 PM (#572216 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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The real address for 77 Sunset Strip was 8524 Sunset Boulevard. It's all gone now.

Show ran from 1958 to 1964 with the last year starring only Zimbalist working out of New York and not Hollywood. They used Ford products on the show with Fords, Edsels, Mercurys and Lincolns in 1958-59. As well as an older Cadillac Fleetwod 75 limousine for the bad guys. That 1958 Lincoln Continental Mark III on the photo is similar to the one used on the show.

Always liked the program's intro in 1958-1959. Efrem Zimbalist and Roger Spence (driving) would be leaving the site in a Thunderbird (shot on the set) and then have an aerial shot of the car pulling onto Sunset Boulevard and driving away. They may have gotten into a Thunderbird convertible, but that was a 1958 Fairlane 500 convertible they were in cruising down Sunset.

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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-10-23 1:07 PM (#572217 - in reply to #572206)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards


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hemidave - 2018-10-23 7:32 AM Stetlers

 

seeing those 50's car in the slush... That hurts to my soul, the rust damage they recieved that day alone was probably a lifetime of work

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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-23 2:09 PM (#572223 - in reply to #572214)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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58 DESOTOS RULE - 2018-10-23 10:47 AM

I'll bet the street address at this location is 77 Sunset Strip. :-D Efram Zimbalist Jr. played a private eye in a TV show called 77 Sunset Strip in the very early 1960s and he had a suite of offices next door to Dino's Lodge (which had the Edd "Kookie" Burns as valet parking attendant)



Scroll halfway up, to the 10th picture Yes, I loved the show, very popular, back in the day, in Germany too.
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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-23 2:11 PM (#572224 - in reply to #572223)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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1rst picture, the lady with the weird hat, 57?/58? Plymouth in the background.

Edited by 1960fury 2018-10-23 2:20 PM




(57p.jpg)



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macedon
Posted 2018-10-23 2:58 PM (#572230 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Anybody know the story on this picture? It's from the book Cars of the 50's by James M. Flammang. I've had the book for years but just today noticed something odd in the 58 DeSoto section.



(5758.JPG)



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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-23 4:07 PM (#572235 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Odd that they would use an obvious '57 Firesweep with a 1958 plate on it.
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macedon
Posted 2018-10-23 5:39 PM (#572241 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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This photo shoot must have been a mock up. Maybe they didn't have the '58 sweep available yet. Here's the same ad... BUT with a 58 Firesweep. Weird that early picture got released.



(5758ad.JPG)



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Chrycoman
Posted 2018-10-23 7:47 PM (#572248 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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It's called air-brushing. Quite common in the advertsing business. I suspect the air-brushed photo was the one shown to the public, while non-brushed was the original and kept on file. Quite a bit cheaper than getting all the models and the display set up again. A few years later someone was looking for a photo for the 1957 DeSoto and struck gold - a photo from a photo shoot with all three series on display. But didn't notice the 1957 Firesweep - or, more likely, did not know the differences between a 1957 and a 1958 Firesweep.

Chrysler of Canada had a field day with the 1960 models. All 1960 Plymouth upholstery fabrics were not quite the same as in the U.S., a little more conservative, and were air-brushed in the brochure. The Canadian 1960 Dart used Plymouth upholstery and instrument panel and thus every interior shot was air-brushed. Also the yellow Dart Pioneer wagon was air-brushed to look like the Canadian Dart Sport Suburban. All DeSoto Adventurers had the interior upholstery changed to the Saratoga style. The Chrysler Windsor used Canadian Polara upholstery which was a little closer to the U.S. Matador style. (No Matadors in Canada) And the Valiant had all its upholstery changed for the Canadian market, which included more than one colour for the V-100 series. Only the Chrysler New Yorker and the Imperial models were left untouched as they were imported.
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macedon
Posted 2018-10-23 8:42 PM (#572251 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Yep, sure looks like they turned that 57 Firesweep into a 58. Got the side changed to the hockey stick, even the exhaust ports, but they left the 57 hubcap on. Interesting indeed.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2018-10-23 10:01 PM (#572252 - in reply to #572212)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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spinout - 2018-10-24 6:49 AM

1960fury - 2018-10-23 5:19 PM
So, unless it has been posted before, I probably shot down the rarest FL in this thread so far.

I suddenly remember I posted a small pic with a 58 Fireflite convertible partially visible (in Ashland or Ashville?) some time ago. Is the Fireflite cvt rarer?


No, a '58 Fireflite cnv isn't rarer than Adventurer cnv.... 474 Flites made.

I posted the picture of that '58 Adventurer few years ago, not a whole photo showing Pontiac dealership, but cropped and zoomed in it and we discussed
then about its rusted rockers as it was just 4 years old car and its non-original wheelcovers. I remember so.


=================================

Rare ? While low production does suggest rarity, some cars (like
performance models) often get saved more than non-performance
models.

This subject is a good example. In this case, more 58 Adventurer
convertibles survive than Fireflites. I believe the confirmed number
hovers at 9 (?). Six Fireflites are known to survive.

Respectively, the Adventurer's survival rate is an astounding 10.9%
while the Fireflite ragtop survival rate is a less-than-average 1.26%.

The ultissimo rare 58 DeSoto is the Fireflite Explorer wagon. Last
I knew, I think (?) 2 were documented to survive. I do not remember
specific production numbers, but several hundred were built. Either
of the non-Firesweep wagons are rare as hell. Not sure why the 'Sweep
wagons got saved in such large (relatively speaking) numbers and the
Fireflites got junked.
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Chrycoman
Posted 2018-10-24 1:57 AM (#572258 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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1958 Firesweep wagons :
2 seat Shopper - 1,305
3 seat Explorer - 1,125

1958 Fireflite wagons :
2 seat Shopper - 318
3 seat Explorer - 609


1958 DeSoto convertibles -
Firesweep - 700
Firedome - 519
Fireflite - 474
Adventurer - 82

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Apollo 61
Posted 2018-10-24 2:34 AM (#572260 - in reply to #572258)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Attack of the 50 ft woman imperial. Not sure why but I can only post photos in attachments? Somebody please copy and repost in photo.



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Ray Bell
Posted 2018-10-24 6:49 AM (#572266 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Like this?



(101850footwoman.jpg)



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hemidave
Posted 2018-10-24 8:02 AM (#572269 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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56D500boy
Posted 2018-10-24 8:13 AM (#572271 - in reply to #572260)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Apollo 61 - 2018-10-24 2:34 AM

Attack of the 50 ft woman imperial. Not sure why but I can only post photos in attachments? Somebody please copy and repost in photo.


That is because you are trying to post .jpeg images. This forum does NOT like .jpegs. It only likes .jpgs (no "e"). I don't know why but that is the reason for your photo posting fail.

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Apollo 61
Posted 2018-10-24 9:26 AM (#572275 - in reply to #572271)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Thatks, I'm must have changed something somehow accidentally.
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spinout
Posted 2018-10-24 12:46 PM (#572287 - in reply to #572252)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Doctor DeSoto - 2018-10-24 7:01 AM

Rare ? While low production does suggest rarity, some cars (like
performance models) often get saved more than non-performance
models.

This subject is a good example. In this case, more 58 Adventurer
convertibles survive than Fireflites. I believe the confirmed number
hovers at 9 (?). Six Fireflites are known to survive.

Respectively, the Adventurer's survival rate is an astounding 10.9%
while the Fireflite ragtop survival rate is a less-than-average 1.26%.


You are right about rarity and survival rate today considering these models.

I wasn't clear, I should have written as "wasn't rarer" rather than "isn't rarer". I referred to these
old pictures what was the situation then. I supposed an Adventurer cnv was rarer than Fireflite
cnv back in the day when they were almost new or few years old as one in the Royal Pontiac
dealer 1962 photo what was the subject.
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Fireflite56
Posted 2018-10-24 1:20 PM (#572289 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Currently on eBay. Is that a '59 Firesweep wagon with dog dish hubcaps furthest to the right? Also, was the two-tone on the Plymouth furthest left factory? I don't recall ever seeing that before.



(59 Dealer PC.jpg)



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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-24 2:37 PM (#572297 - in reply to #572289)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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58 DESOTOS RULE
Posted 2018-10-24 4:00 PM (#572300 - in reply to #572216)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Chrycoman - 2018-10-23 11:03 AM The real address for 77 Sunset Strip was 8524 Sunset Boulevard. It's all gone now. Show ran from 1958 to 1964 with the last year starring only Zimbalist working out of New York and not Hollywood. They used Ford products on the show with Fords, Edsels, Mercurys and Lincolns in 1958-59. As well as an older Cadillac Fleetwod 75 limousine for the bad guys. That 1958 Lincoln Continental Mark III on the photo is similar to the one used on the show. Always liked the program's intro in 1958-1959. Efrem Zimbalist and Roger Spence (driving) would be leaving the site in a Thunderbird (shot on the set) and then have an aerial shot of the car pulling onto Sunset Boulevard and driving away. They may have gotten into a Thunderbird convertible, but that was a 1958 Fairlane 500 convertible they were in cruising down Sunset.

That sounds like a typical TV continuity error. The series is currently being re-run on MeTV in my area so I will have to look at tonight's episode to see if you are right about them changing from a T-Bird to a Fairlane 500 in the opening shot. I wouldn't doubt your word for it though as these kinds of errors were common in early TV. It had one of the catchiest theme tunes of the times as well.





(77 Sunset Strip 59 Edsel.jpg)



(Cast of 77 Sunset Strip.jpg)



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Ray Bell
Posted 2018-10-24 5:13 PM (#572305 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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No phony tipster?

The pic of the two car dealers, Gil Ashcom and J E French, is interesting. No, not for the early start to the modern misuse of the apostrophe, either,
but for the sheer variety of cars on offer.

Particularly the European cars. Front row in Ashcom's is an MGA, then a Hillman, is that an Opel wagon next to it? At the back, I'm not sure whether that's
some kind of Borgward or DKW.

French's signs promote Simca but there are none present. Two Skodas, however, a VW and a Fiat Millecento.


.

Edited by Ray Bell 2018-10-25 1:10 AM
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hemidave
Posted 2018-10-25 8:11 AM (#572340 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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State St Chicago



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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-25 5:24 PM (#572357 - in reply to #572340)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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1960fury
Posted 2018-10-25 6:09 PM (#572358 - in reply to #572357)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Chrycoman
Posted 2018-10-26 2:52 AM (#572384 - in reply to #572305)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Ray Bell - 2018-10-24 5:13 PM

No phony tipster?

The pic of the two car dealers, Gil Ashcom and J E French, is interesting. No, not for the early start to the modern misuse of the apostrophe, either,
but for the sheer variety of cars on offer.

Particularly the European cars. Front row in Ashcom's is an MGA, then a Hillman, is that an Opel wagon next to it? At the back, I'm not sure whether that's
some kind of Borgward or DKW.

French's signs promote Simca but there are none present. Two Skodas, however, a VW and a Fiat Millecento.



The car beside the Hillman is a 1958-60 Rambler American, as is the car at the back beside the 1950 Studebaker.

The car behind the Hillman and Rambler is a Volvo PV444 or PV544.

Photo is probably before 1960 as it is advertised as a Plymouth-Dodge dealer. With the introduction of the 1960 Dodge Dart, most Dodge dealers lost the Plymouth.

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hemidave
Posted 2018-10-26 7:26 AM (#572386 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Station wagon



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56D500boy
Posted 2018-10-26 8:08 AM (#572388 - in reply to #572384)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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Chrycoman - 2018-10-26 2:52 AM

Ray Bell - 2018-10-24 5:13 PM

No phony tipster?

The pic of the two car dealers, Gil Ashcom and J E French, is interesting. No, not for the early start to the modern misuse of the apostrophe, either,
but for the sheer variety of cars on offer.

Particularly the European cars. Front row in Ashcom's is an MGA, then a Hillman, is that an Opel wagon next to it? At the back, I'm not sure whether that's
some kind of Borgward or DKW.

French's signs promote Simca but there are none present. Two Skodas, however, a VW and a Fiat Millecento.



The car beside the Hillman is a 1958-60 Rambler American, as is the car at the back beside the 1950 Studebaker.

The car behind the Hillman and Rambler is a Volvo PV444 or PV544.

Photo is probably before 1960 as it is advertised as a Plymouth-Dodge dealer. With the introduction of the 1960 Dodge Dart, most Dodge dealers lost the Plymouth.



For Context, here is the photo again:

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Ray Bell
Posted 2018-10-26 8:26 AM (#572389 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards



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It still presents as a nice eclectic group of cars with plenty of imports...

And the apostrophe is indelibly wrongly used!

Thanks for the clarification.
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