The Forward Look Network
The Forward Look Network
Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Chat | eBay | Calendars | Albums | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

Power steering pump seized ..
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Steering and SuspensionMessage format
 
Phil_the_frenchie
Posted 2006-07-25 7:11 AM (#61162)
Subject: Power steering pump seized ..



Elite Veteran

Posts: 915
500100100100100
Location: Pau, S-W France
Yesterday i came back to my home on the highway. I just passed a 3 days meeting in a country music festival and my car drove with any problem 400 miles.
The only problem was the weather : very very hot, between 95 and 105 °F ..

Yesterday temp was 97°F, i drove at 70 mph on highway since 1 hours and at the exit of the highway i had to take a slight curve and i lost the power steering !! Ouch, it's very hard to turn the steering wheel .. 1/4 mile later i stopped at the hignway exit barrier and a lot of smoke escaped from the hood ! with the characteristical rubber smell ! I paid the highway and then opened the hood : the two belts were broken (and the rubber was "boiling"..), the steering pulley pump was impossible to turn !!

Do you think that several conditions as - high temp under hood (cooling was around 200°F as i had a portable thermometer to measure it ..) - fast speed during several miles- could be a culprit or rather it's bad luck .... The pump was overhauled .. 10 years ago and i didn't verify at this time the bearing.
As the belts also drive the water pump and fan and according to the outside temp i called a friend which came with a trailer to cary the car. I was at 40 miles from home.

Another question:
Is it possible to drive the car with no power steering pressure (except the cooling temperature problem ..) on several miles ? Some guys told me that it's hasardous or dangerous for the steering box .

Edited by Phil_the_frenchie 2006-07-25 7:12 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DeSotohead
Posted 2006-07-25 8:03 AM (#61164 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: RE: Power steering pump seized ..



Board Moderator

Posts: 3186
20001000100252525
Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan)
Phil.....

I would not expect that the underhood temperature was the primary cause of this failure.
I think your statement about the bearing could be true. Or something got into or broke in the pump vane area of the pump and seized it.

Either way, you are going to look at least at a rebuild if not a replacement pump!

What is the part number of your pump, and I can check my Parts Book and Hollander's to see what other vehicles used this pump, just in case.

As for driving with no power steering on a PS gearbox, I think that is acceptable, as long as there is oil in the roller cage section of the gear unit.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2006-07-25 8:57 AM (#61171 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: RE: Power steering pump seized ..



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7385
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
Phil_the_frenchie - 2006-07-25 7:11 AM

Y

Do you think that several conditions as - high temp under hood (cooling was around 200°F as i had a portable thermometer to measure it ..) - fast speed during several miles- could be a culprit or rather it's bad luck ....


no i don't think so. i'm guessing there was a leak and you drove without oil. its boiling hot in germany too and i drive our desoto almost every day on the autobahn at HIGH speeds. temperatures in the south west are much higher and i never heard chrysler had problems with the ps pumps.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Phil_the_frenchie
Posted 2006-07-25 10:28 AM (#61180 - in reply to #61164)
Subject: RE: Power steering pump seized ..



Elite Veteran

Posts: 915
500100100100100
Location: Pau, S-W France
I just remove the pump (Thomson type) from the car today. The pump tank is filled of oil, the oil level is correct !
I've another spare pump, exactly the same model.. It came from my (now defunct) "spare" Imperial.
So i 'll install it after cleaning and painting the tank.

Curious !! I remove the pulley from my pump and the pulley from the spare pump (because one was painted and not the other...), there are different in diameter !! I check the Parts manual and in fact there was a change in the production: after CE57 11890 (i've also the VIN for other makes) the 1826 051 pulley replaced the 1733 499.
The "after" pulley has larger diameter (117 mm = 4 " 5/8) than the "up to" ( 103 mm = 4" 1/8) so the pump turns slower ... 14 % slower !!!
And also the belts are different (logical..).

Note also that, even the pumps are exactly the same, the manufacturer name and reference are not in the same location: in front (under the pulley) on the "up to" and on around the housing side for the "after".



(pwsteringpulley.JPG)



(pwsteringpulley2.JPG)



(pwsteringpulley3.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments pwsteringpulley.JPG (91KB - 318 downloads)
Attachments pwsteringpulley2.JPG (98KB - 296 downloads)
Attachments pwsteringpulley3.JPG (97KB - 302 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Phil_the_frenchie
Posted 2006-08-09 12:02 PM (#62274 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: RE: Power steering pump seized ..



Elite Veteran

Posts: 915
500100100100100
Location: Pau, S-W France
Today i dismounted the seized pump.
Itsn't the bearing !!! It's the "driven block" which is seized in the body. I had to use a wooden drift and a hammer to extract it from the bore of the body. The bore is heavily scratched and i think trash (as the block), see pics.
I can't understand what happen because the adjustement between blocks and body is very tight. How metal fillings could go here ?

I take also a look in the bottom of the disassembled reservoir and there was some filings! Do you think that some filings could be remain in the steering ? I've put another pump and now i 'm a little anxious. I didn't use the old fluid, i put new fluid but i didn't flushed the steering (and i don't know if it's possible ..)

Someone ask me if ther's a filter somewhere ? Answer is no but maybe it's possible to put one on the return hose ? Someone know if steering fluid filters exist ? I find this : http://www.mooneyesusa.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID...

I read also this : Another way to help extend pump and steering rack life is to install an in line fluid filter. The filter is hose clamped into the low pressure return line to the pump. First, drain the power steering fluid, then cut the rubber hose line within an inch or two of the inlet nipple. Hose clamp the after-market filter to the free ends of the hose. The filter's tiny screens remove abrasive particles that can cause pump failure


Edited by Phil_the_frenchie 2006-08-09 1:10 PM




(stpump02 (Medium).JPG)



(stpump04 (Medium).JPG)



(stpump05 (Medium).JPG)



(stpump06 (Medium).JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments stpump02 (Medium).JPG (73KB - 296 downloads)
Attachments stpump04 (Medium).JPG (58KB - 312 downloads)
Attachments stpump05 (Medium).JPG (58KB - 311 downloads)
Attachments stpump06 (Medium).JPG (74KB - 302 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mikes2nd
Posted 2017-02-05 9:49 AM (#533244 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: Re: Power steering pump seized ..


Expert 5K+

Posts: 5006
5000
I believe that is a 57 and earlier? only Thompson power steering pump.

I took mine apart and it looks just like it.

no real seals or anything to wear out. Thompson switched in 58 to another style
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mikes2nd
Posted 2017-02-05 3:37 PM (#533279 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: Re: Power steering pump seized ..


Expert 5K+

Posts: 5006
5000
How in the heck do I get this type of pump back together???

I'm going to try rubber hoses in the tubes....
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Phil_the_frenchie
Posted 2017-02-05 3:51 PM (#533280 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: Re: Power steering pump seized ..



Elite Veteran

Posts: 915
500100100100100
Location: Pau, S-W France
Wow, a very very old topic back again after 11 years ... The "new" pump is always on the Imperial today and works fine. Since i bought another to have a spare ...
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mikes2nd
Posted 2017-02-05 11:25 PM (#533312 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: Re: Power steering pump seized ..


Expert 5K+

Posts: 5006
5000
I'm just trying to get the two chambers back together, mine is fine and its a pain in the arse to get them to line up.

im going to try rubber tubes down the chambers to line them up. Im sure the factory had some way to do this easy.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Phil_the_frenchie
Posted 2017-02-06 3:24 AM (#533321 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: Re: Power steering pump seized ..



Elite Veteran

Posts: 915
500100100100100
Location: Pau, S-W France
Yes it's pain to install the tubes, there was a special tool to do that.
When i overhauled the original pump i had the same problem than you. After several trials i put some piles (different heights) of small flat washers, i think 4 mm diameter, in one block to align the height of each tube. Some holes need 2 washers, other 10 or more! Then i install the other block. With washers it's easy because you can add or remove one to adjust the correct height. i put a little grease on each washer because if you remove the block to adjust one pile the other "towers" can fall ...

Edited by Phil_the_frenchie 2017-02-06 3:29 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
hemidenis
Posted 2017-02-06 5:27 PM (#533362 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: Re: Power steering pump seized ..



Expert

Posts: 3887
20001000500100100100252525
Location: Northen Virginia
I restore mine too, but I made the tool with wood. But I can't find any picture of it..



(10346220_10203143787548621_373005004340548415_n.jpg)



(10334424_10203143787628623_6716675144270502961_n.jpg)



(10433215_10203143788348641_8410895178737842049_n.jpg)



(10402741_10203143788988657_9039801758193606872_n.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 10346220_10203143787548621_373005004340548415_n.jpg (52KB - 219 downloads)
Attachments 10334424_10203143787628623_6716675144270502961_n.jpg (57KB - 208 downloads)
Attachments 10433215_10203143788348641_8410895178737842049_n.jpg (57KB - 214 downloads)
Attachments 10402741_10203143788988657_9039801758193606872_n.jpg (68KB - 215 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
hemidenis
Posted 2017-02-06 5:31 PM (#533363 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: Re: Power steering pump seized ..



Expert

Posts: 3887
20001000500100100100252525
Location: Northen Virginia
Last summer leaving Carlisle Saturday late after the vendors were packing I found a NOS Thompson pump for $20, it was one of the best finds so far after 17 years visiting Carlisle...
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mikes2nd
Posted 2017-02-06 6:27 PM (#533367 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: Re: Power steering pump seized ..


Expert 5K+

Posts: 5006
5000

where did you get the rebuild kit with the gasket? I got the 58-60 kit...

I actually just used zip ties to get it in, the washers were a bust.

First practice with 1-2 tubes outside the chamber, should be pretty easy.

You then need to practice with just 2-3-4 tubes at the bottom first to get the area where the upper chamber must start, and the bottoms go in first then progress along the sides and finally the top. The upper chamber start just about the opening, not any farther.  I thought i had to go way out and ease in.

You have to keep wiggling it a bit so it doesnt "lock up" and one you get there tap it with the handle end of a screw driver and it pops in.

If it locks up you have to tap it, back off or drop the bottom down a bit to get it moving again.  I put a light down the chambers to make sure the tubes were lining up, once i saw them all in place i simply held the zipties and wiggled slightly(i tapped it on the table to unlock also) and then once i was in i tapped with as screwdriver handle and it slipped in.



Edited by mikes2nd 2017-02-06 6:37 PM




(pump.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments pump.jpg (226KB - 217 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mikes2nd
Posted 2017-02-06 6:38 PM (#533369 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: Re: Power steering pump seized ..


Expert 5K+

Posts: 5006
5000
do the 57's have an issue? they greatly changed the pumps in 58.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
hemidenis
Posted 2017-02-06 9:19 PM (#533383 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: Re: Power steering pump seized ..



Expert

Posts: 3887
20001000500100100100252525
Location: Northen Virginia
I made my own gaskets, since they are not that complicated. the outer O-ring you can find them around. The steering column ASSY changed for 58, I don't think the pump did.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
hemidenis
Posted 2017-02-06 9:21 PM (#533384 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: Re: Power steering pump seized ..



Expert

Posts: 3887
20001000500100100100252525
Location: Northen Virginia
I would definitely said that this oil pump is one of those over-engineered Chrysler designs..
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mikes2nd
Posted 2017-02-06 9:39 PM (#533387 - in reply to #61162)
Subject: Re: Power steering pump seized ..


Expert 5K+

Posts: 5006
5000
its pretty amazing, no real seals to wear out. That thing would run for 300k miles with good clean oil.

The 58 on the other hand has like 10 seals... I was like where do all these seals go? and then I was like DOH... wrong kit.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

* * * This site contains affiliate links for which we may be compensated * * *


(Delete all cookies set by this site)