Viewing a thread - 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Posted 2009-05-05 3:17 AM (#172987 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: RE: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Regular

Posts: 53

Location: Bay Area, California

I realize this is an old thread ... but I thought that these were real cool photographs of the '56 (Plymouth) Plainsman Station Wagon concept car:

... and here it is in the 1956 "CHRYSLER INTERNATIONAL SALON" brochure:

... BUT according to Leon Dixon's Feb '80 Special Interest Autos magazine article entitled "The Saga of the Plainsman", it was NOT an Exner design ... click HERE.

Edited by FIN-ATIC 2009-05-05 9:59 AM

Posted 2009-05-05 9:20 AM (#172999 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: RE: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Location: Under the X in Texas

The car was on eBay about 2-3 years ago. If I remember correctly it was one of the cars that Joe Bortz' wife received in the divorce procedings. I don't think it met reserve. That's all I can remember of what is current about the car. Anyone else? I did save this pic from the auction I believe.

Edited by StillOutThere 2009-05-05 9:21 AM

(56PlymPlainsman.jpg)

Attachments
----------------

56PlymPlainsman.jpg (37KB - 234 downloads)

Posted 2009-05-05 9:31 AM (#173001 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 1480
1000

Location: Australia

i dont care who designed the plainsman, that is one devine station wagon (not all too keen on the paint colour or the fabric seat inlays :S)... the norseman is also devine, when i see a pic of it, it sends a shiver down my spine, i guess it must be my ship/boat phobia... if you get your hands on the 'chrysler concept cars 40- 70' book by david featherston and tony thacker... you will love it... i bought it at the all chrysler day back in late february and i still havent had a chance to read it... but the pictures alone are fab.... cheers adriana (the 1958 plymouth cabana wagon is also cool and the 1960 chrysler 250 valiant is god awful) adriana

firedome

Posted 2009-05-05 9:51 AM (#173004 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 3156
2000

Location: NY & VT

Too bad that the Norseman went down with the Andria Doria... but it was scheduled for destruction anyhow in crash testing to test the strength of the unique cantilevered roof.

I talked to Joe Bortz once around '85, he was interested in a gold '57 Olds convert with 38k miles that I was selling, he's a very nice down to earth guy for someone as wealthy as he is (or was, after the divorce?). Has or had an amazing Dream car collection. I love the little Olds Golden Rocket that was made off the 54 Corvette.

sparky7

Posted 2009-05-05 10:32 AM (#173009 - in reply to #173001)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Elite Veteran

Posts: 636
500

Adriana, those seat inserts are "hair-on" cow hide, or some kind of synthetic meant to approximate the real thing. (I guess they went all the way with the "Plainsman" theme . . .) If it was a real hide with the hair, I wonder what it was like to sit there on a long trip . . . especially when wearing short pants!

Sparky

Posted 2009-05-05 10:37 AM (#173010 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: RE: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 1480
1000

Location: Australia

"the seats were covered in a combination of natural calf hide and natural leather"- page 68

being a vegetarian, the seats in the plainsman are not really my taste... theres nothing wrong with plain old cloth seats! adriana

57burb

Posted 2009-05-05 10:50 AM (#173014 - in reply to #173010)
Subject: RE: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 3967
2000

Location: DFW, TX

There are only a handful of contruction and completed shots of the Norseman, as Ghia only took them to give the Chrysler design studios a status on the project. The intent was for the car to arrive in the US and be photographed extensively for its show tour in 1956/57. However we all know the fate of the car, which is sad because it is probably my favorite Exner era concept car, even from its few photos.

I've never heard they intended to evaluate the safety of the cantilever roof before, I seriously doubt it for a couple of reasons. For one, it was obviously structurally inferior to a standard coupe/sedan roofline. Another reason is because attempting to sell cars based on their "crashworthiness" in the mid/late '50s was suicide for a car - just ask Ford about the debacle of offering seat belts, padded dashes, and double-latch doors in the name of "Lifeguard Design" in 1956. People didn't want to buy them because it sounded like the cars were unsafe to drive! Also, an ultra-expensive one-off design would not give you much information about how a production car would behave in a crash. Of course this is all my conjecture, I'm interested to see any information about what Chrysler intended to do with the Norseman. At the very least it would have been a tragic loss of a beautiful design.

As for the Plainsman's seats, I figure if it's good enough to for a cow's big behind, it's good enough for mine!

55CRL

Posted 2009-05-05 12:03 PM (#173025 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Elite Veteran

Posts: 907
500

Location: Magra, Sweden

Remember when Chrysler rolled an Airflow over a cliff in 1934 to show the strength of the body. I've seen a clip on utube, you could still open and close the doors and drive away after tumbling down the steep hill.

jsrail

Posted 2009-05-05 12:35 PM (#173034 - in reply to #173025)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 1590
1000

Location: Scottsdale, AZ

That Plainsman is a far out design, but, I kinda like it! A real "spacey" look to it. If Exner didn't design it, who did?

C-300

Posted 2009-05-05 2:15 PM (#173051 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: RE: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Extreme Veteran

Posts: 496
100

The interior wasn't calf hide. It was unborn calf hide.

Yechhhhh.

Posted 2009-05-05 2:42 PM (#173054 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: RE: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Regular

Posts: 53

Location: Bay Area, California

StillOutThere - 2009-05-05 6:20 AM ... I did save this pic from the auction I believe.

StillOutThere ... I've never seen that picture before (right click, save) ... thanks for posting it ... and here's a few more pics of the Plainsman (culled from the Internet):

suburban61 - 2009-05-05 6:31 AM ... if you get your hands on the 'chrysler concept cars 40- 70' book by david featherston and tony thacker... you will love it... i bought it at the all chrysler day back in late february and i still havent had a chance to read it... but the pictures alone are fab....

suburban61 is correct ... on a recommendation from 57burb, I purchased a copy of the "Chrysler Concept Cars 1940-1970" book:

This paperback does not disappoint! ... it has great info & photos of all the famous Chrysler "Idea Cars" ... including three pages (pgs. 67-69) on the 1956 Plymouth Plainsman (with 9 photos of the concept station wagon). Its authors (David Fetherston & Tony Thacker) are fellow Hot Rodders, so I won't be scanning in any of the pics from the book ... i.e., I recommend that you buy a copy for yourself (click HERE).

suburban61 - 2009-05-05 7:37 AM ... "being a vegetarian, the seats in the plainsman are not really my taste... theres nothing wrong with plain old cloth seats! :)

Then you best not read the caption that was under this (Hemmings Auto Blog) image:

Note that “the original interior included many sections of unborn calfskin hide.”
If you really want to get the loopy folks at PETA riled up, here’s your car.

jsrail - 2009-05-05 9:35 AM ... If Exner didn't design it, who did?

Both the "Chrysler Concept Cars 1940-1970" book and the 'The Saga of the Plainsman' article (link was provided at the bottom of post #59834) state that the 1956 Plymouth Plainsman was designed by David Scott (of the Plymouth Design Studio).

Edited by FIN-ATIC 2009-05-05 5:17 PM

C-300

Posted 2009-05-05 2:50 PM (#173055 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: RE: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Extreme Veteran

Posts: 496
100

You can still get unborn calf hide for your Plainsman restoration:

The website

http://www.chichesterinc.com/CalfSkinsUnborn.htm

states:

We offer a limited selection of chrome-tanned, unborn, or prematurely born calf skins, often called either slink skins or slunk skins. The hide side is soft and supple. See below for our GALLERY of skins in stock, and more notes on sizes and uses. Our website is updated most days, so the information below is generally up to date.

We have three categories of unborn calf skins:

1) Small (early stage fetus with very, very short hair) - We do not usually stock these as they are very small--only one or two square feet. We can get some on a custom-order basis, but please allow up to two months.

2) Medium (medium stage fetus with very short hair) - These are usually in stock. The medium skins have very short hair (about 1/4") and almost appear to be sheared. The skin is very fine and soft. The vast majority are solid black, but we do get a limited number of black and white or brown and white skins. The skins average only 2-3 square feet.

3) Large (late stage unborn calves with longer hair, up to 3/4").

Really, really yechhhh!

57burb

Posted 2009-05-05 4:21 PM (#173072 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: RE: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 3967
2000

Location: DFW, TX

Now THAT sounds like a seat I'd be proud to fart on!

Posted 2009-05-05 6:40 PM (#173103 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: RE: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Regular

Posts: 53

Location: Bay Area, California

Switching to the other concept car mentioned in the OP ... Here's my small collection of 1956 Chrysler Norseman pics ...

Black & White photos:

Color Artwork:

Scale Models:

... and a photo depicting the eventual fate of the Norseman:

Andrea Doria lists severely to starboard (as Exner lies in a hospital bed)

Posted 2009-05-05 7:16 PM (#173110 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000

Location: bishop, ca

Remind me not to invite you to ride in my car.

The Norseman probably predicted the 61 Dodge's reverse-swept fin styling treatment.

Edited by d500neil 2009-05-05 7:22 PM

Posted 2009-05-05 8:10 PM (#173115 - in reply to #173103)
Subject: RE: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Location: Under the X in Texas

I'll put a raise on the pot of Norseman photos.

(chrysler-norseman_4.jpg)

Attachments
----------------

chrysler-norseman_4.jpg (74KB - 208 downloads)

Posted 2009-05-05 8:19 PM (#173119 - in reply to #173115)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000

Location: bishop, ca

Didn't the (Chrysler) Falcon have pistol --ok, "bicycle handle bar"--grip door handles, too? Or, was 'that', the Diablo?

I guess that, ultimately, naming the car was close-to-accurate, but, really, shouldn't the car have been
the first MoPar to bear the name "Atlantique" ???

Edited by d500neil 2009-05-05 8:25 PM

Posted 2009-05-05 8:49 PM (#173125 - in reply to #173055)
Subject: RE: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 1480
1000

Location: Australia

C-300 - 2009-05-05 2:50 PM

You can still get unborn calf hide for your Plainsman restoration:

The website

http://www.chichesterinc.com/CalfSkinsUnborn.htm

states:

We offer a limited selection of chrome-tanned, unborn, or prematurely born calf skins, often called either slink skins or slunk skins. The hide side is soft and supple. See below for our GALLERY of skins in stock, and more notes on sizes and uses. Our website is updated most days, so the information below is generally up to date.

We have three categories of unborn calf skins:

1) Small (early stage fetus with very, very short hair) - We do not usually stock these as they are very small--only one or two square feet. We can get some on a custom-order basis, but please allow up to two months.

2) Medium (medium stage fetus with very short hair) - These are usually in stock. The medium skins have very short hair (about 1/4") and almost appear to be sheared. The skin is very fine and soft. The vast majority are solid black, but we do get a limited number of black and white or brown and white skins. The skins average only 2-3 square feet.

3) Large (late stage unborn calves with longer hair, up to 3/4").

Really, really yechhhh!

oh, thats is so gross! ive just been turned off my weetbix and apple juice, that is revolting, im sure that you dont have to be a vegetarian to have some concept of how wrong that is... i no longer like the plainsman! adriana

Posted 2009-05-05 9:26 PM (#173132 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000

Location: bishop, ca

For what it's worth, Adrianna, I don't think that the unborn calves are 'harvested' by cesarean section, or by induced
abortion, but who knows?

Ever think about eating veal? Or pate? Or even Kosher-anything-meat (they slit their throats and let them bleed to death).
How the Hell did we get on THIS morbid subject?

Ray Bell

Posted 2009-05-05 9:46 PM (#173138 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 2480
2000

Location: Dalveen, Queensland, Australia

The 'Plainsman' name was also added to one of the lowest volume cars Chrysler ever sold in Australia... only a few hundred of them were made...

It was the station wagon version of the Chrysler Royal.

C-300

Posted 2009-05-05 10:56 PM (#173150 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: RE: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Extreme Veteran

Posts: 496
100

The whole calf skin thing is fascinating. Vellum, used for early manuscripts and torah scrolls, was all derived from it. Also used in musical instruments... mostly snare drums. Really expensive snare drums. And banjos, tambourines, etc.

The site I posted said that all calf skins come from natural cause issues... and that none of them are aborted for the purpose of harvesting the skin.

Obviously, it was in keeping with the times the car was built. I worked for a place that had an upholsterer on site. One of the outside jobs he had was for a French classic car that had a frog skin interior. It was fascinating to look at when it was done (looked like a small patchwork quilt pattern with warts), but the process to get there was incredibly labor intensive. First they had to deal with the whole frog thing -- over 100 of them, then died them a rich maroon color, and then sewed them up. It was gross... but the interior was an exact duplicate of how it was originally built. For a restoration of a car like the Plainsman, you'd have to spend a few years collecting enough hides of a close match in color and texture to assemble the interior.

Gross, sure, but another interesting sidebar to the history of Chrysler.

Posted 2009-05-06 2:38 AM (#173164 - in reply to #173115)
Subject: RE: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Regular

Posts: 53

Location: Bay Area, California

StillOutThere - 2009-05-05 5:10 PM

I'll put a raise on the pot of Norseman photos.

Ah yes! ... this Rarely seen interior photograph clearly shows the Bill Brownlie-designed instrument panel with two wide-set round gauges. The rest of the interior Brownlie credited to Deo Lewton. It featured green-and-gray metallic leather-covered bucket seats with lap belts that retracted into the seats and the transmission tunnel. All four seats were electronically adjustable- the fronts in such a way, and by remote control if necessary, as to allow ingress and egress to the rear.
(caption from page 66 of Chrysler Concept Cars 1940-1970 by David Fetherston & Tony Thacker)

Posted 2009-05-06 6:24 AM (#173179 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 1480
1000

Location: Australia

oh god... now ive been turned off my dinner... that is so incredibly foul... i remember in first year of my design course we went to look at old manuscripts at the state library and the lady said we could hold them (a rare opportunity) i refused because i knew they were made of velum... old violin strings were made out of the gut of some poor animal... i was at a shop today and they had $80 purses made from eel skin, ok they looked cool, but that is so unnecessary... and the frog seat is just terrible... how about an animal friendly car with mandarin skin seats,... that would look cool, they can preserve animal skin why not preserve fruit skin... i think i want to make some shoes somehow out of mandarin skin... this idea is now patented! i think maybe we could stop talking about the seats and get back to the topic of this thread... adriana

Posted 2009-05-06 6:26 AM (#173180 - in reply to #173132)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 1480
1000

Location: Australia

d500neil - 2009-05-05 9:26 PM

For what it's worth, Adrianna, I don't think that the unborn calves are 'harvested' by cesarean section, or by induced
abortion, but who knows?

Ever think about eating veal? Or pate? Or even Kosher-anything-meat (they slit their throats and let them bleed to death).
How the Hell did we get on THIS morbid subject?

i think i started it... i have a tendency of getting sidetracked... thats probably why im typing this right now instead of doing my assignments... adriana

Posted 2009-05-06 8:24 AM (#173184 - in reply to #173179)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Location: Under the X in Texas

Perhaps we should start a seperate thread for tree huggers and PETA endorsers. Those of you who never saw a calf born and can't hold your lunch when the afterbirth occurs can gather there but that is all part of nature so get over it or go on over and start a new thread.

Meanwhile this Texan thinks this thread should be discussing concept cars built by Chrysler corporation.

Ray

Posted 2009-05-06 3:10 PM (#173217 - in reply to #173179)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 1497
1000

Location: Fairfax, Minnesota

Adriana,

I am curious about this part of the vegan world. I am currently in an anthropology/archaeolgy class and, it appears that our ancestors would have not survived the ice age without the use of animal products. Do vegans feel OK about the use of animal for survival, then or now?

I can see where ancient people could use plant materials for insulation/subsistance in some situations, but even now in some parts of the world surviving without animal products would be extremely difficult.

Just curious-not trying to be a stereotypical irritating, old white guy.

Ray

Posted 2009-05-06 6:12 PM (#173239 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000

Location: bishop, ca

My message didn't get posted...oh, well, I reminded Adrianna that we're talking about calfskin, not "foul", here,
and, at least the upholstery is not FROG-skin !!!

Then, I lamented about all of the poor unfortunate CORINTHIANS who were slaughtered, in order to make up
all those Cordoba interiors !

The horror....

Posted 2009-05-13 4:18 AM (#174060 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 1480
1000

Location: Australia

now that i can finally see the comments again i shall answer you'se... i am not a vegan (i just dont eat animals, and i would prefer not to use animal skins when their are suitable man made fibres available...) secondly i only commented that i thought the plainsman seats were a bit ewww and i do not wish to preach to people about eatting meat etc it is a free world and people can do what they wish... for me my vegetarianism is more of a disease/ illness/ condition than anything, yes there are people that make the decision not to eat meat for a health point of view etc, but for me it is like a phobia/ illness more than anything, its something that i can not help no matter how much i try and there is no way id be able to eat something like a meat pie even for a million dollars... i dont have a problems with people eatting most meat things near me, as long as i try and psych myself up and dont think about it... i seriously freak out if people put meat near me, i cant look at meat, cant smell meat, cant touch meat cant consume meat or watch it being cooked... its like having a phobia of heights, spiders or a certain colour... everyone is different but this is my feeling and what it is like for me... over the years i have got worse and worse with this... so truely i say if you can eat meat then you are kinda lucky because its bloody hard not being able too because it is in almost everything and it is everywhere... about the seats now, i just kinda get grossed out thinking about it in great depth... im sure that no one likes to see an animal tortured or abused its not just a vegetarian thing... ok i hope this makes sense and you dont think im a nut case, just a little insight into my mind, lol... cheers adriana

Posted 2009-05-13 8:20 PM (#174117 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000

Location: bishop, ca

So what about all those slaughtered Corinthians ?

big m

Posted 2009-05-13 8:45 PM (#174122 - in reply to #174117)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert 5K+

Posts: 7819
5000

Location: Williams California

d500neil - 2009-05-13 5:20 PM

So what about all those slaughtered Corinthians ?

LMAO!

---John

Posted 2009-05-14 8:45 AM (#174181 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 1480
1000

Location: Australia

what on earth is that?

Chopper John

Posted 2009-05-14 9:29 AM (#174183 - in reply to #174181)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 1490
1000

Location: Florida

The Chrysler Cordoba was offered with optional leather upholstery, which they dubbed "Corinthian Leather".

Ricardo Montalban, the actor, performed in Chrysler Cordoba TV commercials in the 1970's. His accent while saying "Corinthian Leather" during the commercials was commonly spoofed on comedy shows and household jokes - not making fun OF him, though - The phrase was just considered to be humorous and was frequently used out of context.

Here's a link to the original commercial, and then a humorous take on his Star Trek role -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIL3fbGbU2o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVELhUyLZGk&feature=related

And a clip from an interview on the David Letterman Show, with Letterman asking the question 'What is Corinthian Leather?' -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnZdMeEfG1Y&feature=related

Edited by Chopper John 2009-05-14 9:47 AM

firedome

Posted 2009-05-14 3:21 PM (#174207 - in reply to #59834)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 3156
2000

Location: NY & VT

Back to topic - FYI: my statement regarding the Norseman being brought over for crash testing comes from pg 117 of "Chrysler & Imperial - the Postwar Years" by Richard M. Langworth, 1976, Motorbooks International. Langworth is considered the dean of automotive historians, having written for Automotive Quarterly under Beverly Rae Kimes, several seminal books on Packard and others, was East Coast Editor of Car Classics for years, also publisher at one time of three car club periodicals - The Packard Cormorant, The Milestone Car, and The Vintage Triumph.

Here's a direct quote from the Langworth Chrysler book: "Unlike the other Exner specials, it was not designed for the show circuit - its designer said it was being brought over on the S.S. Andrea Doria specifically to be wrecked - rolled over at Chelsea (proving grounds) to see how well the cantilevered roof design would hold up in a crash. The Italian liner did the job ahead of time. It collided with the Stockholm and sank in 300 feet of water." End of quote, and specualtion. This is the best book on postwar Chrysler ever written, and is long out of print, unfortunately. Had it since 1977, shows my age I guess...

h-bomb

Posted 2009-05-14 4:23 PM (#174215 - in reply to #174207)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Elite Veteran

Posts: 638
500

Location: Johns Creek, Georgia

firedome - 2009-05-14 3:21 PM

This is the best book on postwar Chrysler ever written, and is long out of print, unfortunately.

Ahhh...but thanks to the power of the internet, it's still available for purchase!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0879387289/ref=dp_olp_used?i...

Edited by h-bomb 2009-05-14 4:24 PM

Rebels-59

Posted 2009-05-14 6:03 PM (#174221 - in reply to #174117)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

5000

Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK

PICs from NEIL

(92.jpg)

(93.jpg)

(94.jpg)

(95.jpg)

Attachments
----------------

92.jpg (105KB - 215 downloads)
Attachments

93.jpg (98KB - 186 downloads)
Attachments

94.jpg (59KB - 202 downloads)
Attachments

95.jpg (107KB - 203 downloads)

Posted 2009-05-14 9:58 PM (#174242 - in reply to #174207)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Location: Under the X in Texas

While Richard Langworth was certainly an incredibly prolific automotive writer, there were a great many historians who would want to add an "arguably" to any statement that he might be "the dean". Just for kicks I googled "the dean of automotive historians" and came up with no one at all. I think if anyone were to come close to meeting that title it would be Beverly Rae Kimes herself and in her humility she would be the first to decline the title. Richard Langworth had a great number of detractors particularly for his prejudices in favor of General Motors products when he would contrast them with independents. I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong, Firedome, but I am wanting to add a note of caution about being too glowing about Richard Langworth which is easily done posthumously.

I personally thought the automotive coverage from Arch Brown in many hobby magazines under his own and several ghost names was far more accurate in its marquee portrayals but Arch is not as well known because he did not go for the big bucks of book sales. It was always Arch's style to couch the story of the car in the context of the times in which it was built giving notes on world events or inventions or politics etc.

All three writers mentioned here have passed on: Kimes, Brown and Langworth. RIP.

firedome

Posted 2009-05-16 3:37 PM (#174424 - in reply to #174242)
Subject: Re: 56 Chrysler plainsman, and other Chrysler concept cars

Expert

Posts: 3156
2000

Location: NY & VT

Well 'ol Beverly Rae is dead - she died last year - so she's not exactly any longer in contention as dean (deaness? duchess?) of auto writers, and they were very close friends in any event... she'd have been the first to acknoledge his expertise and had sung his priases on the numerous occasions where he was presented with awards by the Society of Auto Historians. I would also strongly disagree with the statement about his bias against independents - Langworth was about as strong a Packard partisan as ever lived, and his long editorship of "The Cormorant" (Packard Club magazine) would attest to that fact. I read him for years as a '56 Packard owner myself. ... he comes as close as anyone out there to true scholarship in writing about automobiles, or Beverly K. would not have employed him to write for Automotive Quarterly, as close to an academic journal on autos as has ever existed... in any event the Plainsman was designed, as I said, to be crash tested, and not strictly as a show car, which has been documented by Langworth as described.