Posted 2022-07-20 7:10 PM (#623041 - in reply to #623039) Subject: Re: shoulder belt a good idea? Graphic!!
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Definitely a good idea for a car that's daily driven because your chances increase dramatically if you are driving it a lot. I find it's a lot easier to install 3 point belts in a sedan than it is in a hardtop. The shoulder harness also ruins the look of a hardtop, so I haven't yet figured out a good way to get it done in one. Fortunately, my daily drivers have mostly been '67-'70 that already have the 3 point belts in them & the '61 Lancer and '56 Savoy, which I also installed 3 point belts in. But when I was daily driving the '58 Coronet & DeSoto hardtops, I just used lap belts, which isn't great. Thankfully, I never got into a wreck with them. I almost did in the Coronet though, but was able to brake hard enough to avoid it, and the car behind me turned out to avoid hitting me.
Posted 2022-07-21 10:55 AM (#623067 - in reply to #623039) Subject: Re: shoulder belt a good idea? Graphic!!
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Location: Gooding, ID
Wow, makes you think for sure about esthetics vs safety. This is the dilemma enjoying the classics, how far do you modernize it? Redundant brake systems, disc brakes, 3 or 4 point set belt harnesses, padded dash and collapsible steering wheel column, air bags etc. At what point do you just trailer your car instead of enjoying it? I truly enjoy the originality of my '59 DeSoto as every detail is all 50's technology designed by Exner down to the bias ply tires. It's 63 years old and I love it for what it is, and I believe if I made all the "right changes" it would certainly loose a big part of its identity and certainly its look. Can't even imagine how ridiculous and awful the swivel seats would turn out with a 4 point harness, as it would look like some kind of a race car. I'm not saying what's right or wrong, just pointing out the obvious. Like everything else in life there's a risk involved, and I do everything I can to be a safe and cautious driver. I cannot dictate or control what other drivers do, but I keep my ride in mechanical order and drive it like I did with my motorcycle, assuming someone will bust the next stop sign and hit me. I guess the answer would be a partial modification, one that doesn't take away the original look (if possible) but gives you a sense of safety and security. However, these cars will never be as safe as a modern car no matter what, so pick your poison, instant physical damage or bubble wrap.
Posted 2022-07-21 12:27 PM (#623069 - in reply to #623039) Subject: Re: shoulder belt a good idea? Graphic!!
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The standard argument about "How far do you take it?" is usually easily answered. Air bags do make a good improvement to safety at high speed, but at lower speeds, they don't provide much benefit, and can also cause problems if they don't work properly, or if the passenger is too short or light weight etc. The other things you mention aren't a huge improvement, or just help during certain situations. But if this particular passenger wasn't wearing a lap belt, he would have smacked his whole body against the dash & windshield, possibly cutting his neck in the glass & dying. So lap belts do help. But the lack of shoulder restraint caused him to smack his head against the dash and lose 4 teeth in the process, and caused the driver to break his elbow. Padding that dash wouldn't have changed that outcome very much. Final conclusion: Shoulder belts are a huge improvement to saftey during ANY wreck. 4 point or 5 point harnesses are even better, but offer only mild improvements at lower speeds.
Posted 2022-07-22 1:01 PM (#623102 - in reply to #623039) Subject: Re: shoulder belt a good idea? Graphic!!
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A ton of lessons there. Driving with a known sticky throttle, while smelling brakes, and apparently no backup parking or hand brake. He had 7 seconds between "no brakes" and collision to key it off and reduce speed. Not criticism - just noting good lessons to take away. 45 mph into the dash/windshield is as a passenger is no joke - been there!
Thanks for posting this. I'm going to consider shoulder belts for my current build.
Posted 2022-07-22 10:29 PM (#623111 - in reply to #623039) Subject: Re: shoulder belt a good idea? Graphic!!
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Thanks a lot guys, solutions look good. I have to say that it is truly incredible that a high modified car like this didn't have a decent safety belts, second no parking brakes, third driver I think went in to neutral instead of low gears?
The teeth in the dash was what change my mind about originality... The fact that someone could actually died in my passenger seat in a 40mph crash, it is a no brainier...
First recommendation of the guy who left his front teeth in the dash: "Get a shoulder belt...."
Posted 2022-07-23 11:21 AM (#623120 - in reply to #623039) Subject: Re: shoulder belt a good idea? Graphic!!
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Definitely turning the motor off seems like it would have been wise. He does shift it forward, and the trans starts making weird noises. Did he shift it to reverse or park? But it's clear by the time to impact that there just wasn't time to slow down significantly, either way.
Posted 2022-07-24 2:28 AM (#623134 - in reply to #623039) Subject: Re: shoulder belt a good idea? Graphic!!
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it has a shift lock out, and that was "clicking" and not allowing it to go into park or it just blew the parking sprag right out of it.... which a surging 1300 hp car will do.
I think he has a parking break..
But yeah leaving it in gear and shutting it off would have killed it instantly;
I would like to know how both masters failed... I guess no fluid at all in the system, not sure how both fail and i dont think he tried standing on it.. he might had a hint of mechanical brakes.
Posted 2022-07-24 10:47 PM (#623154 - in reply to #623039) Subject: Re: shoulder belt a good idea? Graphic!!
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brakes failures are rare today, probably was out of fluid...I'm sure a trans like this could easily take a reverse emergency acceleration, even better the car could be squeeze between both cars at the light and blown both front fenders, but avoid a rear end......So many options but he choose the worst one...