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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | The OE head gaskets are marked "TOP" on one side. Since they fit the block basically only one way, I assume it refers to which side faces the top? Not?
Thing is, intuitively I'd let the bulges face the top (like in the 1rst picture) like the BB valley pan gasket and this is how the OE head gasket in my untouched 383 was installed (TOP facing downwards).
How are they installed? I refuse to believe the "TOP" is meant to point out the obvious. ???
Also, the FSM mentions to use a "suitable sealer" with the steel gaskets. What would that be? I always thought they are installed dry. What do you do/use?
Edited by 1960fury 2022-05-30 7:40 PM
(headgasket1.jpg)
(headgasket2.jpg)
Attachments ---------------- headgasket1.jpg (125KB - 92 downloads) headgasket2.jpg (65KB - 93 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9911
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
Sealer was part number 1122 893, whatever that was.
Here's what Google comes back with:
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALiCzsYHjts1dD0osGufmDn72N1iHiva...
Edited by 56D500boy 2022-05-30 9:02 PM
(1960Mopar361_383HeadInstallationInstructions.jpg)
Attachments ---------------- 1960Mopar361_383HeadInstallationInstructions.jpg (162KB - 96 downloads)
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Veteran
Posts: 143
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA | 1960fury - 2022-05-30 5:33 PM The OE head gaskets are marked "TOP" on one side. Since they fit the block basically only one way, I assume it refers to which side faces the top? Not? Thing is, intuitively I'd let the bulges face the top (like in the 1rst picture) like the BB valley pan gasket and this is how the OE head gasket in my untouched 383 was installed (TOP facing downwards). How are they installed? I refuse to believe the "TOP" is meant to point out the obvious. ??? Also, the FSM mentions to use a "suitable sealer" with the steel gaskets. What would that be? I always thought they are installed dry. What do you do/use?
The head gaskets are designed with a top side and bottom side. The "TOP" side should face up toward the head. Some gaskets say "This Side Up." Steel gaskets require a sealant such as copper spray gasket Permatex 80697. Some people use Permatex "Indian Head Shellac," but I prefer the copper spray-on for ease of application.
Be forewarned that using a thin steel gasket on a 383 that has many miles on it and hasn't had the block decked and head surfaced can suffer coolant leaks due to the tight gasket tolerance and the habit of the deck and head deforming after tens of thousands of miles of use and heat cycles. Leaks don't happen every time with a steel gasket on a well used block/heads, but is a known issue with B/RB blocks. If performance is not a concern, it is safer on unmachined block/heads with many miles to use a FelPro PermaTorque gasket that gives a thicker crushed gasket to stop leaks, but it will expand the quinch area and decrease compression, both impacting combustion performance.
Edited by PolyJ 2022-05-30 9:45 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | PolyJ - 2022-05-30 9:15 PM
1960fury - 2022-05-30 5:33 PM The OE head gaskets are marked "TOP" on one side. Since they fit the block basically only one way, I assume it refers to which side faces the top? Not? Thing is, intuitively I'd let the bulges face the top (like in the 1rst picture) like the BB valley pan gasket and this is how the OE head gasket in my untouched 383 was installed (TOP facing downwards). How are they installed? I refuse to believe the "TOP" is meant to point out the obvious. ??? Also, the FSM mentions to use a "suitable sealer" with the steel gaskets. What would that be? I always thought they are installed dry. What do you do/use? The head gaskets are designed with a top side and bottom side. The "TOP" side should face up toward the head. Some gaskets say "This Side Up." Steel gaskets require a sealant such as copper spray gasket Permatex 80697. Some people use Permatex "Indian Head Shellac," but I prefer the copper spray-on for ease of application. Be forewarned that using a thin steel gasket on a 383 that has many miles on it and hasn't had the block decked and head surfaced can suffer coolant leaks due to the tight gasket tolerance and the habit of the deck and head deforming after tens of thousands of miles of use and heat cycles. Leaks don't happen every time with a steel gasket on a well used block/heads, but is a known issue with B/RB blocks. If performance is not a concern, it is safer on unmachined block/heads with many miles to use a FelPro PermaTorque gasket that gives a thicker crushed gasket to stop leaks, but it will expand the quinch area and decrease compression, both impacting combustion performance.
Ok, I had the bright idea the check my other 2 big blocks (60 Desoto/61 Fury) and the other side of my 60 Fury 383, all others the beads face downwards. That means the passenger side on my 60 was installed wrong from the factory(!) and never failed in almost 63 years, until I took it off.....
Sure leaks can happen, especially after the overheating thing, but no other engine in automobile history has a better reputation for head gasket sealing than the Mopar Big Block. Head gasket problems with the B are virtually unknown. Even incorrectly installed head gaskets seem to be no proplem^.
Most people run into problems, because they tighten the head in ONE step. You can't make enough steps when tighteneing a cylinder head, even a narrow rigid one, like the B engine head.
Edited by 1960fury 2022-05-31 7:45 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany |
Thanks, but I'm not going to use silicone sealer with a hard gasket. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9911
Location: Lower Mainland BC | 1960fury - 2022-05-31 4:26 PM
Thanks, but I'm not going to use silicone sealer with a hard gasket.
Sid: Who said anything about silicone sealers?
Like PolyJ said, they are more like a shellac (varnish)(ish):
PolyJ - 2022-05-30 6:15 PM Steel gaskets require a sealant such as copper spray gasket Permatex 80697. Some people use Permatex "Indian Head Shellac," but I prefer the copper spray-on for ease of application.
There are several brand name choices in that list that I provided the link to:
https://www.amazon.ca/Permatex-80062-High-Gasket-Sealant/dp/B000HBGH...
And:
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | 56D500boy - 2022-05-31 9:09 PM
1960fury - 2022-05-31 4:26 PM
Thanks, but I'm not going to use silicone sealer with a hard gasket.
Sid: Who said anything about silicone sealers?
The first entries in the link you provided are all silcone sealers. Thanks, that copper sealer is available in Germany, for 40 Euros I tought about it and may use silicone sealer, against good shop practice, on steel gaskets. At least I can't find a sealer with a higher temperatur reading than silicone. That upside down gasket in my 383 still puzzles me. |
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Expert
Posts: 3399
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | On my Maxwedge race car, 12:1 compression, used steel shim head gaskets, crimps against the deck. Permatex Super 300 worked well. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9911
Location: Lower Mainland BC | Shep - 2022-06-02 7:19 AM
On my Maxwedge race car, 12:1 compression, used steel shim head gaskets, crimps against the deck. Permatex Super 300 worked well.
I would assume that your heads and deck were true and flat. (??)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | Shep - 2022-06-02 10:19 AM
On my Maxwedge race car, 12:1 compression, used steel shim head gaskets, crimps against the deck. Permatex Super 300 worked well.
Thanks for the tip, I'd like to use that and it is still around after 60 plus years!
(PermatexSuper300ds1.jpg)
Attachments ---------------- PermatexSuper300ds1.jpg (71KB - 88 downloads)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13054
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Yes, "the brown death", a true quality product that I've used as long I worked with cars. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | can someone id the car in the ad? its a fl |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9911
Location: Lower Mainland BC | 1960fury - 2022-06-02 3:47 PM
can someone id the car in the ad? its a fl
Based on the air cleaner snorkel size and shape, the location of the distributor at the back of the engine, and what little can be seen of the valve covers, I would guess 58 Plymouth with a 318.
Edited by 56D500boy 2022-06-02 7:42 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | wizard - 2022-06-02 1:08 PM
Yes, "the brown death", a true quality product that I've used as long I worked with cars.
What is it based on? Silicone? Is it curing or non-curing, a liquid or more viscous? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | 56D500boy - 2022-06-02 7:33 PM
1960fury - 2022-06-02 3:47 PM
can someone id the car in the ad? its a fl
Based on the air cleaner snorkel size and shape and what little can be seen of the valve covers, I would guess 58 Dodge or 58 Desoto Firesweep (which had Dodge engines ).
Looks like a Poly in the ad, not a B. 58 Desotos only had Big Blocks. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9911
Location: Lower Mainland BC | 1960fury - 2022-06-02 4:37 PM
Looks like a Poly in the ad, not a B. 58 Desotos only had Big Blocks.
Already caught and corrected my error.
See the replacement 58 Plymouth 318 photo above
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | Yes it is a 57/58 Plymouth, judging by the grille attachments and the hood braces. |
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Expert
Posts: 3399
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Of course, the engine was fully blue printed for NHRA competition. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | Looks like the price for a pair of steel head gaskets for a B went up from 40 shipped (when I bought it years ago) to almost 140 shipped and these are 0.20 not the OE factory 0.17 (not sure if that makes a difference?) Someoboy know a source for 0.17 gaskets for a fair price? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6502
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | 7:00 "Shellac or copper coat" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSn2YGY4rCY |
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