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Location: Lower Mainland BC | I have previously posted about my 56 Dodge's cowl tag. I recently received scanned copies of the 56 Dodge Accessories brochure (see below). Now I'd like to interpret the cowl tag and the IBM card in light of the brochure info.
My car has Tinted windows, power steering, power brakes, Powerflite, and the Basic, Convenience and Appearance accessories (vanity mirror is missing but it probably was there at the beginning). I don't know how those translate to the Cowl Tag or IBM card.
Cowl Tag
IBM Card:
The Accessories Brochures pages, courtesy of Dave H.:
Edited by 56D500boy 2017-12-29 11:27 AM
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56DodgeAccessoriesPricingBrochure_2.jpg (243KB - 595 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | 56D500boy - 2017-12-29 11:21 AM
I have previously posted about my 56 Dodge's cowl tag. I recently received scanned copies of the 56 Dodge Accessories brochure (see below). Now I'd like to interpret the cowl tag and the IBM card in light of the brochure info. My car has Tinted windows, power steering, power brakes, Powerflite, and the Basic, Convenience and Appearance accessories (vanity mirror is missing but it probably was there at the beginning). I don't know how those translate to the Cowl Tag or IBM card.
Anybody??
Dave F. |
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Member
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| Dave—I have the same problem—-I purchased a 1956 Custom Royal Sedan last Saturday and can find no information that will help me learn the original paint (263) and trim (3422) and body (835). There has to be a resource available for us! Anything that you can share with me will be greatly appreciated.
GEORGE Breslin
Jacksonville, Florida |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | Gbreslin - 2018-03-27 5:54 PM
Dave—I have the same problem—-I purchased a 1956 Custom Royal Sedan last Saturday and can find no information that will help me learn the original paint (263) and trim (3422) and body (835). There has to be a resource available for us! Anything that you can share with me will be greatly appreciated. GEORGE Breslin Jacksonville, Florida
George: Welcome to the forum. There aren't many 56 Dodge folks here that are active. I will try to help you as much as possible.
First thing is to post up some photos of your car. Here are some hints about how to do that:
Start at the top of this thread:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=64340&...
I have previously posted a number of 56 Dodge articles to this thread (note it goes over two pages):
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=67189&...
As for paint, I think 263 is Sapphire white, jewel black and aquamarine, based on this thread:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=63553&...
which includes this:
Body 835 = same as mine = 4 dr sedan
Trim: 3422 = too many numbers. Should only be three numbers as far as I know and I would have thought that it would be 541, 542 or 543 (?)
For the Custom Royal Sedans, so far I know:
541 = two tone blues
542 = black and white
543 = might be the two green tones
Have a look at this thread:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=65230&...
I am emailing you this directly as well.
Dave F.
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
frwl (Igor): Not sure if your knowledge/data base goes back as far as 1956 or not but I am hoping that you can decode the codes on the top row of this tag:
Edited by 56D500boy 2019-10-06 1:35 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1890
 
| Hello Dave!
LA codes are very hard to identify. I'm not sure they're correct and may be wrong. Here is what I have.
SG = 1 = Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows (Code 361)
SG = 2 = Solex Tinted Glass – Windshield only (Code 362)
SG = 4 = Solex Tinted Glass
SG = 5 = Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows and Sun Cap Visor (outer)
EW = 2 = Power Windows
EW = 3 = Power Windows (Code 363)
M1 = 6 = Code 356 = Radio 6 Tube VELVETONE and Rear Seat Speaker
M1 = 8 = Code 358 = Radio 8 Tube MUSIC MASTER and Rear Seat Speaker (which you have…)
M1 = 9 = Code 359 = Radio 9 Tube ELECTRO TOUCH TUNER and Rear Seat Speaker
SAME RADIOS – LESS REAR SEAT SPEAKER:
M1 = 5 = Code 356 = Radio 6 Tube VELVETONE
M1 = 7 = Code 358 = Radio 8 Tube MUSIC MASTER (although HI-FI RECORD PLAYER has code 357)
M1 = 1 = Code 359 = Radio 9 Tube ELECTRO TOUCH TUNER
M2 = 4 = ??? – no info
M3 = 1, 4, 5 or 7 = ??? some sources says that 1 is a Code 451 = Electric Clock
M5 = 2 = Jiffy Jet Windshield Washer (Code 392). Probably Variable Speed Windshield Wipers has Code 391…
But another source info says that Codes 391 and 392 are dealer installation Plymouth accessory codes (mirrors)
M6 = 2 = Exterior Molding Trim Packages for Plymouth (Codes 421, 422, 423, 424, 425) and DeSoto (Codes 421 and 422)
M7 = ??? – no info
M8 = 3 = Dodge Basic Accessory Group (possibly Code 413), includes a Heater with Defroster (Code 355), besides mirrors
M8 = 3 = DeSoto Accessory Group: Tinted Glass, Heater, Mirrors, WSW Tires, etc.
M8 = 4 = DeSoto Accessory Group: Tinted Glass, Heater, Mirrors, WSW Tires, etc. + Radio 8 Tube
M8 = 5 = DeSoto Accessory Group: Tinted Glass, Heater, Mirrors, WSW Tires, etc. + Radio 9 Tube and Rear Seat Speaker
So, if a digit on the position M8 has «3», position M1 should have 5, 6, 7, 8 or a 9 logically – Radio codes factory installed.
If M1 has nothing – radio installed by dealer
M9 = 3 = Inside Prismatic Mirror
M9 = 4 = Inside Prismatic Mirror + Left Outside Mirror
M9 = 8 = Inside Prismatic Mirror + Left Outside Mirror + Right Outside Mirror
Correct me, if I’m wrong… |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
| P.S.
Can you read the phrase (three letters) below 5 to the right of AXLE 35… on the top of this picture?
HTR – Heater?
Here the link…
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=68355&... |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | frwl - 2019-10-07 1:11 PM
Can you read the phrase (three letters) below 5 to the right of AXLE 35… on the top of this picture?
HTR – Heater?
While I digest the info on my cowl data tag, I am responding to the "PS":
The 1955 Dodge Detroit IBM card you question is this one:
I have annotated a similar 1956 Dodge Detroit IBM card and that category is "ROUTE" . Maybe in 1955 they just used "RTE" (??)
This:
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Veteran
Posts: 189
Location: Northern Illinois | sorry to jump on this thread, dave or igor would you know what the accessory group 7 "357" on a Detroit 55 dodge CR IBM card is? my card is shown on an earlier thread
Edited by hondaman1974 2019-10-07 5:57 PM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | Igor: Thanks very much. I will now add my comments to your thoughts (I will put mine in bold).
For clarification, my car came with the basic group , convenience group and appearance group options from this list:
The following is from you with my comments in bold:
***********************
Hello Dave!
LA codes are very hard to identify. I'm not sure they're correct and may be wrong. Here is what I have.
SG = 1 = Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows (Code 361) My car has Solex (lightly) tinted windows all around so SG =1 makes sense
SG = 2 = Solex Tinted Glass – Windshield only (Code 362)
SG = 4 = Solex Tinted Glass
SG = 5 = Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows and Sun Cap Visor (outer)
EW = 2 = Power Windows
EW = 3 = Power Windows (Code 363) No power windows, so no code makes sense
M1 = 6 = Code 356 = Radio 6 Tube VELVETONE and Rear Seat Speaker
M1 = 8 = Code 358 = Radio 8 Tube MUSIC MASTER and Rear Seat Speaker (which you have…) Not really. When I bought my car, it came as a radio delete and there was no rear speaker - I added the radio and speakers
M1 = 9 = Code 359 = Radio 9 Tube ELECTRO TOUCH TUNER and Rear Seat Speaker
SAME RADIOS – LESS REAR SEAT SPEAKER:
M1 = 5 = Code 356 = Radio 6 Tube VELVETONE
M1 = 7 = Code 358 = Radio 8 Tube MUSIC MASTER (although HI-FI RECORD PLAYER has code 357)
M1 = 1 = Code 359 = Radio 9 Tube ELECTRO TOUCH TUNER
M2 = 4 = ??? – no info
M3 = 1, 4, 5 or 7 = ??? some sources says that 1 is a Code 451 = Electric Clock I have the OE ElectroMechanical Clock
M5 = 2 = Jiffy Jet Windshield Washer (Code 392). Probably Variable Speed Windshield Wipers has Code 391…
But another source info says that Codes 391 and 392 are dealer installation Plymouth accessory codes (mirrors) My car has both Jiffy Jet washer and variable windshield wipers
M6 = 2 = Exterior Molding Trim Packages for Plymouth (Codes 421, 422, 423, 424, 425) and DeSoto (Codes 421 and 422) I got the standard Custom Royal "chrome" trim
M7 = ??? – no info
M8 = 3 = Dodge Basic Accessory Group (possibly Code 413), includes a Heater with Defroster (Code 355), besides mirrors
M8 = 3 = DeSoto Accessory Group: Tinted Glass, Heater, Mirrors, WSW Tires, etc. As stated above, I have the basic, convenience and appearance group options
M8 = 4 = DeSoto Accessory Group: Tinted Glass, Heater, Mirrors, WSW Tires, etc. + Radio 8 Tube
M8 = 5 = DeSoto Accessory Group: Tinted Glass, Heater, Mirrors, WSW Tires, etc. + Radio 9 Tube and Rear Seat Speaker
So, if a digit on the position M8 has «3», position M1 should have 5, 6, 7, 8 or a 9 logically – Radio codes factory installed.
If M1 has nothing – radio installed by dealer
M9 = 3 = Inside Prismatic Mirror
M9 = 4 = Inside Prismatic Mirror + Left Outside Mirror I have the inside prismatic mirror and both the left and right outside mirrors
M9 = 8 = Inside Prismatic Mirror + Left Outside Mirror + Right Outside Mirror <
Correct me, if I’m wrong
********************
Thanks very much. You did pretty good. I now know more than I did when I woke up this AM.
Edited by 56D500boy 2019-10-07 6:35 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1890
| Hello Dave. Can you add something to this list? (???? means no info).
1956 Dodge Trim Codes
Coronet Sedans
526 = Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric – Green
527 = Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric – Blue
528 = Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric – Black
???? = Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric and Cordagrain Seat Back – Blue (Optional)
???? = Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric and Cordagrain Seat Back – Black (Optional)
???? = Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric and Cordagrain Seat Back – Green (Optional)
Coronet Lancer Hardtops
529 = Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric – Green
530 = Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric – Blue
531 = Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric – Black
???? = Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric and Cordagrain Seat Back – Blue (Optional)
???? = Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric and Cordagrain Seat Back – Black (Optional)
???? = Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric and Cordagrain Seat Back – Green (Optional)
Coronet Lancer Convertible, Suburban and Sierra Station Wagons
826 = Figured Cordagrain – Green
827 = Figured Cordagrain – Blue
828 = Figured Cordagrain –Black and White
Royal Sedan
534 = Figured Jacquard Weave Fabric and Cordagrain – Green
535 = Figured Jacquard Weave Fabric and Cordagrain – Blue
536 = Figured Jacquard Weave Fabric and Cordagrain – Silvery Black
???? = Figured Jacquard Weave Fabric and Cordagrain – Red (maybe Code No. 532 or No. 533)
Royal Lancer Hardtops
537 = Figured Jacquard Weave Fabric and Cordagrain – Green
538 = Figured Jacquard Weave Fabric and Cordagrain – Blue
539 = Figured Jacquard Weave Fabric and Cordagrain – Silvery Black
???? = Figured Jacquard Weave Fabric and Cordagrain – Red (maybe Code No. 532 or No. 533)
Royal Custom Suburban and Custom Sierra Station Wagons
826 = Two Tone Patterned Cordagrain – Green
827 = Two Tone Patterned Cordagrain – Blue
828 = Two Tone Patterned Cordagrain –Black and White
Custom Royal Sedan
540 = Two Tone Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric and Pleated Cordagrain – Green
541 = Two Tone Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric and Pleated Cordagrain – Blue
542 = Two Tone Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric and Pleated Cordagrain – Silvery Black
Custom Royal Lancer Hardtops
543 = Two Tone Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric and Pleated Cordagrain – Green
544 = Two Tone Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric and Pleated Cordagrain – Blue
545 = Two Tone Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric and Pleated Cordagrain – Silvery Black
Custom Royal Lancer LaFemme Hardtop
546 = Two Tone Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric and Pleated Cordagrain – Rose and Gold
Custom Royal Lancer Convertible (Has Code No. 835, but no color info)
???? = Two Tone Patterned Cordagrain – Green
???? = Two Tone Patterned Cordagrain – Blue
???? = Two Tone Patterned Cordagrain –Black and White
Thanks. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU | Guys, I just wonder if LA codes are the same for all cars.
I have LA made 56 Windsor. This is the top row of my tag: SG =1, M1 =1, M5 =1, M8 =8, M9 =8.
Here are my comments to Igor explain;
SG = 1 = Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows (Code 361) ------ my car have solex and 361 code in papers
M1 = 8 = Code 358 = Radio 8 Tube MUSIC MASTER and Rear Seat Speaker --------- my car have music master and rear speaker, but no 358 code
M5 = 2 = Jiffy Jet Windshield Washer (Code 392). Probably Variable Speed Windshield Wipers has Code 391 --------- my car have Jiffy Jet, but no 392 or 391
M8 ------ 8 in my car, and only one code with 8 - 428
M9 = 8 = Inside Prismatic Mirror + Left Outside Mirror + Right Outside Mirror ----------- my outside mirrors are Joma
in my broadcast sheet there is an additional code 8, single 8 simply, no idea
what do you think
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Expert
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Hello Robert (RDP).
Describe your car or just attach the pictures of cowl tag and built card better…
For 1956 Chrysler I recommend next items (Y / N):
Full Flow Oil Filter
Single Exhaust System
Lights – Automatic Entrance
Lights – Back up
Lights – Dual Directional Signals
Lights – Glove Box
Lights – Hand Brake Warning Flasher
Lights – Luggage Compartment
Lights – Map
Lights – Rear Door Dome
Lights – Rear License Plate
Cigar Lighters
Assist Handles – Rear
Air Foam Seat Cushions
Windshield Wipers
Windshield Washer
Sun Visors – Inside
Sun Cap Visor – Outside
Rear Folding Center Arm Rest
Safety Cushion Dash Panel
Custom Steering Wheel
Transmission – Manual
Transmission – Automatic PowerFlite
Transmission – Automatic TorqueFlite
Power Steering
Power Brakes
Power Seat Four Way
Power Windows
Radio – Music Master
Radio – Electro Touch Tuner
Radio – Rear Seat Speaker
Highway HiFi Phonograph
Antenna – Manual
Antenna – Manual Dual
Antenna – Manual Extra Long
Antenna – Power
Heater
Heater – Instant Gasoline
Air Conditioning
Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows
Solex Tinted Glass – Windshield only
Mirror – Inside Prismatic
Mirror – Inside Vanity
Mirror – Outside Rear View Left
Clock – Electric
Clock – Self Winding, Steering Wheel
Floor Mat – Rubber
Floor Mat – Carpet
Carpets
Removable Rear Kiddie Seat
Outer Bumper Guards – Front
Chrome Rear License Plate Frame
Exhaust Pipe Extension
Undercoating
Chrome Stainless Steel Wheel Covers
White Side Wall Tires
Wire Wheels
Special Two Tone Paint
Pictures of inside and outside views, engine bay are will helps also…
I have never seen M8 = 8 combination, M8 = 3 or M8 = 4 only (maybe it is just your typo…)
P.S.: Is this your car?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | Igor, not this one, I have Nassau. My card is a bit blurred, I can't read some of the numbers. Does anyone have a readable LA card?
My car options:
custom steering whell, power steering, power brakes, powerflite, Music Master radio + rear spaker+manual antenna, solex glass all,
heater, carpet, two tone paint, windshield washer, backup lights, glovebox light, luggage light,handbrake warning light, dash pad,
vanity mirror, undercoating
344 Hardy Governor
353 PowerFlite
361 Solex All Window
381 Airfoam Seat
385
428
451
469
473 Tires
I don't know what means that single 8 marked „?”.
SG=1 EW M1=1 M2 M3 M4 M5=1 M6 M7 M8=8 M9=8
M1 = 381 ???, M5 = 451 ???
Edited by RDP 2019-12-04 4:21 PM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2019-12-04 1:16 PM. My card is a bit blurred, I can't read some of the numbers. Does anyone have a readable LA card?
Where did you find that sheet of paper with all the codes?
Here is my LA 56 Dodge card. Not the best but it might help.
 (DForgies56D500BuildCard_trimmed_small.jpg)
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Hello Robert. According to 1956 Plymouth Order Codes (see the first attached picture):
344 = Handy Governor (but it is for Plymouth 6 cylinder only)
353 = Powerflite Transmission
361 = Solex Tinted Glass in all window areas
381 = Air Foam Seat Cushions (front only)
385 = Rear Auxiliary Seat with Air Foam Seat Cushions (but this option for Wagons only)
428 = Exterior Body Trim Package (no idea what came on Windsors at extra, except Sun Cap Visor, Front Bumper Outer Guards or a Side Sweep Mouldings; Plymouth range from 421 to 425)
451 = Electric Clock
469 = Battery (no idea about Amperes capacity)
473 = 6.70 x 15 White Side Wall Tubeless Tires 4-Ply (set of 5)
Single 8 marked „?”
1) Probably 458 = Undercoating (although this is not in order in your optional codes row)
2) Route 8 (or Tracer) = Delivery Route by Rail… (see «8» in the top right corner on the built card)
I have attached a ’56 New Yorker Newport built card, but top right corner is still hard to see…
SG1 = 1 is a Solex Glass
M5 = 1 maybe means manual antenna (2 = dual rear fender antennas)
For others – no 100% info, speculations only
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU | Dave, the sheet was in the rear seat springs. This a few pieces self-copying pages.
Dave, Igor
I know a few 56 LA cards, all blurred. These small code numbers are impossible to read. The right side is always worse.
Ok, so we know what we knew. Powerflite, Solex, Airfoam, Tires.
Body trim Package - I don't think so. I don't have any extras.
Electric clock - no clock.
Are you sure 8 in the top right corner? So 8 is trail, 4 is truck, right?
Interesting is 6 in the top left corner. Same on all cards.
Which means zero hole to the right IBM card? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2019-12-05 8:50 AM
Dave, the sheet was in the rear seat springs. This a few pieces self-copying pages.
Dave, Igor
I know a few 56 LA cards, all blurred. These small code numbers are impossible to read. The right side is always worse.
I think we could figure out the numbers. It's the text that I can't read. See below. An attempt to clarify the text (with failures)
 (SectionOf56LAIBMCard_Annotated.jpg)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | I am browsing photos now. In the car I found documents from the previous previous owner. I wrote to him and got the pictures.
The steering wheel is all black, it is not custom steering. Now there is custom steering. I also see a prismatic mirror. is gone.
so the correct list of equipment looks like this:
power steering, power brakes, powerflite, Music Master radio + rear spaker+manual antenna, solex glass all,
heater, carpet, two tone paint, windshield washer, backup lights, glovebox light, luggage light,handbrake warning light, dash pad,
vanity mirror, prismatic mirror, undercoating |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | I found on the forum Dieter (di_ch_NY56) New Yorker tag:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=30829&...
di_ch_NY56 - 2010-05-21 10:56 PM
SG 5
M3 5
M8 4
M9 8
SCHED 0214
NO 0115
MODEL C721
BT 042
PT 407
TR 20
Factory power brakes, power steering, warm water heating system, dealer option: manual windshield washer, one side mirror
IBM card shown by Igor comes from Dierer's car
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Yes. This is Dieter’s Chrysler. Another puzzling cowl tag from WCD-LA.
For example: What SG5 is mean? I can see a solex glass all around, it should be SG1!!!
Maybe SG5 means solex glass + windshield washer? This is not. Windshield Washer is a standard on ’56 New Yorkers. Maybe solex glass + sun cap visor? No, that standard ’56 NY too… What’s this? I have no idea.
Detroit code says that 1 = Solex Glass – all, 2 = Solex Glass – windshield only, while separate column says 5 = sun cap visor, 7 = outer front bumper guard, 9 = sun cap visor and outer front bumper guard together…
If I point out the parallels with his Detroit’s cousins, where number 4 decodes heater, and 8 decodes radio Music Master (6 push buttons) + rear seat speaker, we can see these on M8 = 4 and M9 = 8 positions. But this is wrong too…
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU | I'm sorry, Dave, but I think we stole your thread. It was not intended.
Only M9 = 8 is the same in the Dieter tag and my tag.
5 = sun cap visor, 7 = outer front bumper guard, 9 = sun cap visor and outer front bumper guard ------- it's options for Windsor
both cars have MM radio+r speaker+ m antenna
I wonder if this is correct, I only guess:
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Maybe you are right about M9 = 8 that means Radio Music Master. But Dave’s Dodge has M9 = 4, but his car is NOT equipped with any radio. What do you say?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | This is not easy.
Dodge
SG=1, M1=8, M5=2, M8=3, M9=4
Windsor
SG=1, M1=1, M5=1, M8=8, M9=8
New Yorker
SG=5, ___M3=5,___ M8=4, M9=8
all three have M8 and M9 codes. M9=4 ->track, M9=8 ->rail (single8 in the sheet and the top right corner IBMcard)? M8=8 -> 428 (w), 424 (NY), 423 (D)?
what says item 42 IBM card? molding package
does it make sense?
Edited by RDP 2019-12-06 4:56 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2019-12-06 8:22 AM
I'm sorry, Dave, but I think we stole your thread. It was not intended.
You did but having three minds on these 56 LA IBM cards (and cowl tags) is not a bad thing. Not a bad thing at all.
RDP - 2019-12-06 1:45 PM
This is not easy.
What says item 42 IBM card? molding package
Not easy is an understatement. 
Yes 42 = Molding package.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | Dave, you probably need to change the thread name to 1956 LA decoding
Ok, I looked in old threads and found this:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=45536&...
and this:
the top right corner IBMcard (route) it's empty and M9 place it's empty but there is a shipping stamp "truck"
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2019-12-07 12:44 PM
Dave, you probably need to change the thread name to 1956 LA decoding
Or you and Igor could have started your own 1956 Chrysler LA IBM card decoding thread 
Never mind, I can't change the title of the thread so we are stuck with what we have.
And what we have, as a result, of your sleuthing (investigation) is the best LA IBM card that I have ever seen. I've tried to enhance what D500Neil posted but it is still not perfect. But it is better:
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
I printed off that enhanced blank LA Card and was able read more than could be seen on the computer screen.
I have revised my previous attempt at understanding the right end of the IBM card. Still one or two ??? sections.
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Location: So. Cal | This is the body tag on my LA built '56 Plymouth Savoy. The build sheet was under the floor mat and had become one with the tar on the floor, long long ago so not much of it was readable. This was before the age of digital cameras so I didn't get a picture of it to try and get any info from it. I have never asked for an IBM card for the car either, but the car has manual brakes, manual steering, and no options except for a V8, powerflite, radio, heater.
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU | Thanks Nathan!
56D500boy - 2019-12-07 10:50 PM
Never mind, I can't change the title of the thread so we are stuck with what we have.
probably Wizard could do it, but it's your thread
56D500boy - 2019-12-07 10:50 PM
Or you and Igor could have started your own 1956 Chrysler LA IBM card decoding thread
I think we don't have enough info to understand each brand separately.
Maybe in the future but not yet. Unless it bothers you.
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Hello Nathan (Powerflite). Thank for posting the picture of your cowl tag. Paint 607 = Wedgewood Blue, Trim 505 = Blue Cloth and Vinyl, Body Type 854 – is this 2door Sedan?
M8 = 3 and M9 = 8… Too many cars have M8 = 3 combos… If simply drop in mind optional codes, built cards, etc. Is it maybe a conventional heater? «3» for Plymouths and Dodges, «4» for DeSotos and Chryslers and differences between numbers means Models of heater: DeSoto – Mopar 702, Chrysler – Mopar 700 etc.
As Nathan told us, this car has Powerflite, Heater and Radio as optional equipment only. Built tag shows M8 = 3 and M9 = 8. Therefore these options must be contains it. Most Dodges cowl tags, that I have seen, were equipped with Powerflite and Heater and have stamped M8 = 3 on it. If anybody seen LA cowl tag of car with manual transmission and posted the picture in the thread, we would be compare it and say – what combo «M8 = 3» does it mean: Powerflite or Heater. So, next M9 = 8 combination of this car – is the Radio code. Dave, are you sure 100% that your car has NO radio from the factory? What about «M9 = 4» on your cowl tag? Are you first owner? Maybe somebody deleted or changed Radio before you bought the Dodge? For example Robert (Windsor Nassau) and Dieter (New Yorker Newport shown above) cars have «M8 = 3» Radio Music Master both.
P.S. Robert – to continue the theme about SG1 = Solex Glass. In next, 1957 season, option «Shaded Rear Window» (or Back Lite) was offered. Maybe «SG5» is it, or «Shaded Windshield» - see attached pictures.
P.S. Dave, I think «??? FRONT COMPARTMENT» in the build sheet means «LIGHTS – FRONT COMPARTMENT», which includes:
Parking Brake Warning Light, Map Light, Glove Box Light and Courtesy Light, i.e. Light Package if shorter… you may add to your list…
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Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2019-12-08 4:15 PM
M8 = 3 and M9 = 8… Too many cars have M8 = 3 combos… If simply drop in mind optional codes, built cards, etc. Is it maybe a conventional heater? «3» for Plymouths and Dodges, «4» for DeSotos and Chryslers and differences between numbers means Models of heater: DeSoto – Mopar 702, Chrysler – Mopar 700 etc.
and say – what combo «M8 = 3» does it mean: Powerflite or Heater.
nope - Windsor M8-8, NewYorker M8-4. Same powerflite and heater
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
Because it is potentially clear that the Blank IBM card that was previously posted was a) and LA Plant IBM card and b) it wasn't just a 56 Dodge card but also a 56 Plymouth card (because all the paints names listed are Plymouth names not Dodge paint names), I've used the 56 Plymouth order form to help interpret some of the hard to read parts of the card. I wasn't completely successful but it is better. I am now going to use the 56 Plymouth order form codes to help figure out the item numbers on the IBM card, right or wrong.
First the improved card:
 (1956_DodgeIBMcard_LAPlant_Blank_Improved_1_small.jpg)
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
Okay. I printed off the 56 Plymouth order form and went through it with the 56 LA Plant IBM card and got most but not all of the codes. There are still some missing (maybe there is another sheet to the 56 Plymouth order form hiding out there in the universe (??)).
So starting with this:
And using the improved LA IBM card, I did the following (in doing so, I think I found the answer to the yellow high lit "Compartment" issue = LIGHT - Front Compartment, code 452 on the Plymouth sheet):
 (1956_DodgeIBMcard_LAPlant_Blank_Improved_2_Annotated_small.jpg)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | original codes that I can read
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1956_IBMcard_LAplant_I can read.jpg (228KB - 457 downloads)
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Location: PL / EU | Dave, 421-425 Sportone - it does not fit,
fits the puzzle 421-425 Molding Pkg
it seems that the codes are set ascending, low to high
I suppose that rearview mirror does not fit too
Edited by RDP 2019-12-09 1:58 PM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
I filled in some numbers based on guessing from the 56 Plymouth order form.
I can see now that the IBM card was not as precise as it could be but then again, it was flexible.
Example:
Heavy Duty Package: The IBM card just says "34". I presume because there was two Heavy duty options, i.e. 341 for manual transmission cars and 342 for Powerflite cars. On that basis, I would expect a 1 or 2 in column 34 if the car got the Heavy duty package.
There were also other "34" series codes. For example, I think if the car was ordered as a six cylinder manual transmission taxi, the codes that might be punched in column 34 would have been:
1 (for heavy duty), 4 (for Governor, handy, 6 cyl only), 5 (for dome light switch on all four doors), 6 (for the 20 gal gas tank), 7 (for the city traffic carb ), 8 (for the universal (taxi cab only) lock cylinder/keys)
and maybe 9 (for the Pull to open right rear door handle). So 341, 344, 345, 346, 347, 348 and 349. All interpreted via punches in column 34.
Moving closed to home, e.g. my 56 Dodge, I have three option punches in column 35. I've always thought of them as option packages 1, 4 and 7 but now, taking a closer look, I think that might be wrong.
I have been helping someone with a manual/overdrive 56 Dodge so I know that he has a "2" for transmission, i.e. 352 from the 56 Plymouth order form. In contrast, my car has a "3" for transmission (353 = Powerflite).
My car also has Power Steering (351), and Power Brakes (365 - hmmm not column 35 but 36?) and a heater (with defroster) so it should be 355 (but I think I have a 4 in column 35 so this theory is breaking down  )
My head hurts.
Edited by 56D500boy 2019-12-09 3:14 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | We have more than at the beginning, but we need more examples...
I asked Dieter for his decoding letter from Chrysler Historical. It's certainly something to help. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2019-12-08 4:15 PM
P.S. Robert – to continue the theme about SG1 = Solex Glass. In next, 1957 season, option «Shaded Rear Window» (or Back Lite) was offered. Maybe «SG5» is it, or «Shaded Windshield» - see attached pictures.
i prefer it:
frwl - 2019-10-07 10:09 PM
SG = 1 = Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows (Code 361)
SG = 2 = Solex Tinted Glass – Windshield only (Code 362)
SG = 4 = Solex Tinted Glass
SG = 5 = Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows and Sun Cap Visor (outer)
....but I really have no idea |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
Just re-checked my column 35 codes = 1, 4, 6 and 8
So testing the theory:
351 = Power steering (yes)
354 = Heater, without defroster motor (wrong - I also have a defroster motor) (which would be a 355 code)
356 = ?? Sheet says Power Brakes = 365. I have power brakes so there might be a typo on the order form (??)
358 = Push button 8 tube (6 button) radio (no - at least no when I got the car. It had a full length radio delete panel (not just a little radio hole cover insert) - but there was a hole on the right cowl (not fender) where some aerial - I had assumed CB had been mounted so ??)
So one yes, two no's and a maybe
Is this progress??
Edited by 56D500boy 2019-12-09 4:14 PM
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Expert
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Have one idea… thanks to Nathan aka «Powerflite»
His car has manual brakes, manual steering, and no options except for a V8, powerflite, radio and heater
Cowl tag shows M8 = 3 and M9 = 8 – see above
Assuming that M8 = 3 is 353 = Powerflite (while M8 = 2 is a 352 = Overdrive), M9 = 8 might be 358 = Music master Radio (while M9 = 9 is 359 = Search Tune Radio)
The heater code is 355. If a car has equipped with Heater and Music Radio both – these codes 355 and 358 are occupies M9 column together, and 355 + 358 (last 5 + last 8 = 13 – last 3, i.e. M9 = 3)
Because heater and radio codes beginnings from 35…
We know 1956 Plymouth and 1956 Dodge Optional Codes:
351 = Power Steering
352 = Overdrive Transmission
353 = Powerflite Transmission
354 = Heater
355 = Heater and Defroster
356 = Velvetone Radio
357 = Search Tune Radio and Hi-Fi Record Player
358 = Push Button Radio
359 = Search Tune Radio
So, according to this theory, what we have:
M8 = 2 = 352 = Overdrive Transmission
M8 = 3 = 353 = Powerflite Transmission
M9 = 5 = 355 = Heater and Defroster
M9 = 8 = 358 = Push Button Radio
M9 = 9 = 359 = Search Tune Radio
M9 = 3 = 355 + 358 = Heater and Defroster + Push Button Radio (last numbers 5 + 8 = 13, i.e 3)
M9 = 4 = 355 + 359 = Heater and Defroster + Search Tune Radio (last numbers 5 + 9 = 14, i.e 4)
or
M9 = 4 = 355 + 358 + 351 = Heater and Defroster + Search Tune Radio + Power Steering (last numbers 5 + 8 + 1 = 14, i.e 4)
There are many combinations in the M9 column might be…
P.S. Dave – for this reason I asked you about Rustyfender’s Dodge Royal 4door Lancer picture of engine bay… |
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Correction:
M9 = 3 = 355 + 358 = Heater and Defroster + PUSH BUTTON Radio (last numbers 5 + 8 = 13, i.e 3)
M9 = 4 = 355 + 359 = Heater and Defroster + SEARCH TUNE Radio (last numbers 5 + 9 = 14, i.e 4)
or
M9 = 4 = 355 + 358 + 351 = Heater and Defroster + PUSH BUTTON Radio + Power Steering (last numbers 5 + 8 + 1 = 14, i.e 4)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | it's too complicated
EDIT
I checked IBM cards of both Dodges. It looks quite different.
I'm surprised... 48x, 49x codes?
Edited by RDP 2019-12-10 5:23 PM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2019-12-10 12:42 PM it's too complicated
I checked IBM cards of both Dodges. It looks quite different.
I'm surprised... 48x, 49x codes?
Robert you are trying to make punches in all the columns correspond to an order code. It doesn't work like that. For some columns, it does but not for every column.
The one card that you are flagging is mine:
I have already found homes for all of the punches on that card and, for example, the 46, 47, 48 and 49 do NOT translate to option codes:
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Looks like repainted in monotone Raven Black instead Raven Black below contour molding and Turquoise above contour molding (code 418)
It shows Solex Glass all around, but SG column is empty…
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU | Dave, how do you read they numbers to the right?
see it works for me. The sheet and card codes match perfectly.
Dieter car too.
I think all these numbers are assigned to the special equipment code area. I don't know why the holes are so far to right.
Igor, it is interesting - M8=4 (like a Dieter car), but M9=2!
I can't based on this photo confirm solex.
I see a few extras: heater, power steering, radio, paint, custom steering.
Edited by RDP 2019-12-11 11:31 AM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9670
Location: So. Cal | From my experience with the '57-'58 cars, I can tell you that the Los Angeles M codes contain a lot of different options all jammed into each code. For instance, my '57 New Yorker has numerous options from dual rear antennae, 7 button radio, solex glass, rear speaker, rear defroster, power brakes, quad headlights, power windows, heater etc, and a lot of the New Yorker standard stuff like power steering & clock, but everything is condensed down into 3 codes: EW:5 (I'm not sure this is even one of the codes!), M1:4, M2:9. Also, the M codes only go from M1 through M6.
I'm sure that these codes became more condensed for '57 than they are in '56, but I wouldn't be surprised if multiple options are included into each M code like they are in '57-up. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2019-12-11 7:57 AM
Dave, how do you read they numbers to the right?
Sorry Robert, I am not sure what you are referring to, an IBM card or a cowl tag? And which one?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | IBM
56D500boy - 2019-12-11 12:15 AM
Robert you are trying to make punches in all the columns correspond to an order code. It doesn't work like that. For some columns, it does but not for every column.
your card has two holes outside the area,
the second dodge card has one hole outside the area
but the numbers outside the area match those in the options bar
Edited by RDP 2019-12-11 12:25 PM
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Posts: 1890
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The 56 DeSoto Fireflite Sportsman 2door Hardtop (body type 36) built card
With numbers 3, 5, 4, 4 inside area
No information about optional equipment
Might be it useless, but just for comparing…
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU |
frwl - 2019-12-10 8:30 PM
.
Have one idea… thanks to Nathan aka «Powerflite»
His car has manual brakes, manual steering, and no options except for a V8, powerflite, radio and heater
Cowl tag shows M8 = 3 and M9 = 8 – see above
Assuming that M8 = 3 is 353 = Powerflite (while M8 = 2 is a 352 = Overdrive), M9 = 8 might be 358 = Music master Radio (while M9 = 9 is 359 = Search Tune Radio)
The heater code is 355. If a car has equipped with Heater and Music Radio both – these codes 355 and 358 are occupies M9 column together, and 355 + 358 (last 5 + last 8 = 13 – last 3, i.e. M9 = 3)
Because heater and radio codes beginnings from 35…
…
(...)
Powerflite - 2019-12-11 5:33 PM
From my experience with the '57-'58 cars, I can tell you that the Los Angeles M codes contain a lot of different options all jammed into each code. For instance, my '57 New Yorker has numerous options from dual rear antennae, 7 button radio, solex glass, rear speaker, rear defroster, power brakes, quad headlights, power windows, heater etc, and a lot of the New Yorker standard stuff like power steering & clock, but everything is condensed down into 3 codes: EW:5 (I'm not sure this is even one of the codes!), M1:4, M2:9. Also, the M codes only go from M1 through M6.
I'm sure that these codes became more condensed for '57 than they are in '56, but I wouldn't be surprised if multiple options are included into each M code like they are in '57-up.
if it's true, decrypting M codes is very difficult or completely impossible |
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Hello Nathan.
You said earlier about your ’56 Plymouth Savoy:
«… the car has manual brakes, manual steering, and no options except for a V8, powerflite, radio, heater».
Tell me, please:
What kind of radio installed in your car?
Does your car have a rear seat speaker?
Has your heater equipped with defroster motor?
Thanks. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9670
Location: So. Cal | My '56 Savoy:
glass isn't tinted
no rear seat speaker
no rear defroster
I had to look at the original pictures of my car to see that the radio had no push buttons either. It had a flat face on it with fake indents where the buttons would go. Really cheap!
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | Powerflite - 2019-12-13 8:05 AM
no rear defroster
I think the question was do you have a front windshield defroster motor and switch?
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Yes. I mean heater with defroster (Dave – Thanks for correction) highlighted in red on the picture below.
But info about rear window defroster very appreciated too…
So, summary what we have with M8=3 and M9=8 codes: Automatic Transmission, Heater and NO Radio – right?
Thanks again.
P.S. Nathan, Besides EW=5 (Power Windows), column M1 = 4 in your ’57 New Yorker body tag says that your car does have 6 Way Power Seat – you forgot it in your listing.
And M2=9, probably, should be some accessory group which includes Solex Glass, that absent in SG column…
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9670
Location: So. Cal | I'll have to check on the defroster switch, I've never used it.  But I suspect that it does have it.
My Savoy does have a radio, just no pushbuttons on it.
You're right about the power seat in the '57 New Yorker, I forgot to include it. So you are saying that all the rest of the options are bundled into M2=9? Or did they just not bother to put everything on the tag?
Edited by Powerflite 2019-12-13 3:04 PM
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You told that your car has equipped with solex glass.
This item must be stamped by number below SG letters definitely.
So, if SG column (Solex Glass) is empty, I just suspect that it option might be (probably) included in accessory group with number 9.
For example, like in this DeSoto Accessory Groups on the picture below…
Where besides tinted glass might be mirrors, sun visors, windshield washer, variable speed wipers etc…
But I have not reliable information about it…
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Or this example, I have found.
It’s 57 New Yorker 4door Hardtop equipped with solex glass and power seat and no power windows (EW is empty)
SG column numbered by 5 (Solex Glass) and M1=4 (Power Seat), but M2 column is empty.
But your car SG is empty, but M2=9. Might be solex glass including in it
That what I mean…
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | frwl - 2019-12-13 11:28 AM.
Yes. I mean heater with defroster (Dave – Thanks for correction) highlighted in red on the picture below.
So, summary what we have with M8=3 and M9=8 codes: Automatic Transmission, Heater and NO Radio – right?
I don't know if this is all directed at me or not. My 56 Dodge has Solex glass all round, PS, PB, Powerflite automatic, heater and front defroster and NO radio. M8 = 3 *BUT* M9 = 4.
My tag (from the first post in this thread):
Edited by 56D500boy 2019-12-13 4:32 PM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | frwl - 2019-12-13 12:55 PM
Or this example, I have found.
It’s 57 New Yorker 4door Hardtop equipped with solex glass and power seat and no power windows (EW is empty)
SG column numbered by 5 (Solex Glass) and M1=4 (Power Seat), but M2 column is empty.
But your car SG is empty, but M2=9. Might be solex glass including in it
That what I mean…
I understand what you are saying. That makes sense, but makes it a lot harder to figure out. This is a picture of my '57NY tag, and indeed it has nothing indicated in the SG column.
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU |
56D500boy - 2019-12-11 12:15 AM
you are trying to make punches in all the columns correspond to an order code. It doesn't work like that. For some columns, it does but not for every column.
Dave, you didn't answer my question.
Why doesn't it work? For which columns? How do you know that? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2019-12-14 8:48 AM
56D500boy - 2019-12-11 12:15 AM
you are trying to make punches in all the columns correspond to an order code. It doesn't work like that. For some columns, it does but not for every column.
Dave, you didn't answer my question.
Why doesn't it work? For which columns? How do you know that?
I "know" that because a) I have been playing with my 56 Dodge Los Angeles IBM card and a few Detroit-built 56 Dodge IBM cards (different format) for a few years now. I have also had correspondence with a computer science professor in the US who happens to have worked in the automotive sector during his undergraduate university days and knows about IBM cards and how they were used on the auto assembly lines.
One of things that came out of my correspondence with the computer science prof was he made me aware of the use of IBM card "interpreters" which could be wired (either with patch cords or hard-wiring) that would move the printing of the information away (and maybe far away) from directly above where the punches were made:
REFERENCE: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/interpreter.html
Example (patch cord) interpreter:
A good case in point is column 35 on a Detroit 56 Dodge IBM card which seems to be labeled "ACC GRPS" (as in accessory groups). There could be multiple punches in that column (I have example 56 Dodge IBM cards with up to 4 punches in column 35). For the Detroit cards, the punches in column 35 get "interpreted" by the "interpreter" and printed in the appropriate location. In the example below, there are three punches in column 35, i.e. 1, 4 and 7. Those numbers get printed above box 351, 354 and 357 which seems to an organized and logical conclusion (if only we knew what options 351, 354 and 357 actually included):
If only the Los Angeles plant's 56 Dodge IBM cards were as organized as those from Detroit. Case in point, my LA-built 56 Dodge and its IBM card. It has multiple punches in Column 35 but column 35 isn't labeled as anything special, in fact it isn't even numbered (I've had to add the numbers). In this case the punches in column 35 are 1, 4, 6 and 8 (my car has much the same options as the Detroit-built car so the different numbers are a bit concerning). In contrast to the Detroit card, these four numbers are NOT printed inside option boxes labeled 351, 354, 356 and 358. In fact while they are printed in roughly the same (or similar) location as the Column 35 codes on a Detroit card, they are not any boxes, instead they "float" above those boxes. Worse the boxes that they are above have labels that are meaningless to my car. (hits head against brick wall until the pain of that thought is numbed).
Edited by 56D500boy 2019-12-14 2:02 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | Thanks for extensive explanations. It's very interesting.
But, it seems to me that all codes from the options bar should be read the same way.
I may also be wrong, but look at the picture (on the previous thread page) of my broadcast sheet and IBM card comparison - all numbers of the options bar have corresponding three-number codes. It's true some codes are incomprehensible, for example 344, but remember it's a Plymouth card adapted for other makes.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | I looking through my collections ... here's what I have:
pay attention to code 481
IBM card starts from 44 and ends with 47
codes outside the special equipment area have sense
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2019-12-15 3:00 AM
I looking through my collections ... here's what I have:
Robert: Can you post/share a scan of the entire page/sheet that those extracts came from? They look very interesting.
(Please)
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Location: PL / EU | .
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Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
Robert: Thanks so much for posting those. Helps to make sense of both the Plymouth order form and the LA IBM cards (which must be actually Detroit Plymouth cards).
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Expert
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I have some speculations about body type codes.
According to pictures (Thanks Robert), I can see double-digit number codes:
15 = Plaza 4door Sedan L6
25 = Savoy 4door Sedan L6
Actually (on the cowl tag) they are triple-digit – see the Nathan (Powerflite) cowl tag picture above – BT=854
So, what we have for 4door Sedans (last number 5):
15 = Plaza L6
25 = Savoy L6
35 = Belvedere L6
45 = Plaza V8
55 = Savoy V8
65 = Belvedere V8
Or, if we are using triple-digit number, it might be appears (same 4door Sedans):
615 = Plaza L6
625 = Savoy L6
635 = Belvedere L6
845 = Plaza V8
855 = Savoy V8
865 = Belvedere V8
I just have a question about Fury: is it 75 or 875? Or rather 76 or 876 (last number 6 – 2door Hardtop)?
What car is on the picture below: Belvedere 2door Hardtop V8 or Fury 2door Hardtop V8?
I think this is Belvedere, because paint 671 - it mostly green, while a Fury was beige…
 (1.jpg)
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1.jpg (147KB - 394 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | Igor, it looks correct
x4 - 2 dr sedan (6x4 , 8x4)
x5 - 4 dr sedan (6x5 , 8x5)
69 - 4 dr HT Belv 8 ( 869)
10 - taxi 6 (610 ?)
Edited by RDP 2019-12-17 12:01 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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1 = 2door Business Sedan (less rear seat)
3 = Convertible
4 = 2door Sedan
5 = 4door Sedan
6 = 2door Hardtop
7 = 2door Station Wagon (Suburban)
8 = 4door Station Wagon (Suburban)
9 = 4door Hardtop
I think taxicab has prefix 5, because it is 4door Sedan too…
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2019-12-17 6:23 PM
I think taxicab has prefix 5, because it is 4door Sedan too…
10 is real code from invoice like as above
it seems certain:
x1x plaza 6
x2x savoy 6
x3x belvedere 6
x4x plaza 8
x5x savoy 8
x6x belvedere 8
xx4 2dr sed
xx5 4dr sed
xx9 4dr HT
xx0 taxi special
Edited by RDP 2019-12-17 12:55 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
I know you guys are having fun with the 56 Plymouth codes but trying to come back to the original thread topic, we are (all) having problems going from the codes on the IBM card to the numbers embossed on the cowl data tags.
Here is an example of what I will call "insanity" of how we might never figure the IBM to cowl tag translation: There was no rhyme or reason (i.e. intelligible pattern) when they combined two or more option codes together.
We might need this:
To figure out things like this (178+172 +173 = 176 Oh COME ON! How does that make sense?)
Edited by 56D500boy 2019-12-17 2:41 PM
 (57OrderCodes_1.jpg)
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57OrderCodes_1.jpg (134KB - 392 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | 56D500boy - 2019-12-17 8:38 PM
I know you guys are having fun with the 56 Plymouth codes but trying to come back to the original thread topic,
yes Sir!
56D500boy - 2019-12-17 8:38 PM
Here is an example of what I will call "insanity" of how we might never figure the IBM to cowl tag translation: There was no rhyme or reason (i.e. intelligible pattern) when they combined two or more option codes together.
To figure out things like this (178+172 +173 = 176 Oh COME ON! How does that make sense?)
but this is nothing new:
Edited by RDP 2019-12-17 3:04 PM
 (a.JPG)
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a.JPG (30KB - 403 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2019-12-17 12:02 PM
but this is nothing new:
Maybe not to you but it is new to me!!
What is that snippet from?
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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This box looks like Enigma decoding machine of German Army WWII (LOL)
So, what we have
’57 Plymouth Accessory Groups: 17x + 17x +17x = 17x
Analogically for ’56 Dodge Accessory Groups: 35x + 35x + 35x = 35x, i.e. 351 + 354 + 356 = 357, 358 or 359…
But codes 357, 358 or 359 are Radio codes… so, this speculation is wrong…
From other side, if we are looking to the codes on the cowl tag in order:
SG1 = 361 = Solex Glass, EW3 = 363 = Power Windows, the next M1 could be code 365 or Power Brakes…
My database has three numbers below M1 on the cowl tag: 5, 7 and 8, if assuming that:
M1 = 5 = Power Brakes
M1 = 7 = Power Brakes and Power Steering
M1 = 8 = Power Brakes and Power Steering and something else… might be Power Disc Brakes instead regular brake
By the way the car pictured below has not Power Brakes and M1 column is empty
 (1.jpg)
 (2.jpg)
 (3.jpg)
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1.jpg (57KB - 425 downloads)
2.jpg (60KB - 408 downloads)
3.jpg (39KB - 406 downloads)
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Expert
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Oh, it seems like ’56 Plymouth accessory codes, that absent in ’56 Plymouth Order Code listing
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | frwl - 2019-12-17 12:54 PM
This box looks like Enigma decoding machine of German Army WWII (LOL )
My database has three numbers below M1 on the cowl tag: 5, 7 and 8, if assuming that:
M1 = 5 = Power Brakes
M1 = 7 = Power Brakes and Power Steering
M1 = 8 = Power Brakes and Power Steering and something else… might be Power Disc Brakes instead regular brake
By the way the car pictured below has not Power Brakes and M1 column is empty
Yes it was an Enigma decoding machine and we need it badly.
The June 26th built, 56 Golden Royal (D63-2) Lancer (826) indeed does not have either PS or PB, so M1 = blank might make sense
My car has both PS and PB and my M1 code is 8. I don't know what else would make it different than M1 = 7.
It would be nice to have a complete 56 Dodge order form with all the options and codes. In the short term, seeing more 1956 Plymouth order form and codes would likely help us.
My cowl tag:
The 56 Golden (077 paint code) Royal (D63-2 model code) Lancer (826 body code) cowl tag has SG =1 (and I see lots of Solex Glass), M2 = 4, M8 = 3 and M9 =3. I think that extra tag under the main cowl tag is likely to be the "Undercoating Tag"
Edited by 56D500boy 2019-12-17 4:46 PM
 (56GoldenLancerRoyalCowlTag_Large.jpg)
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56GoldenLancerRoyalCowlTag_Large.jpg (86KB - 389 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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In continuing of the theme about accessory groups…
Dave, your car has Basic, Convenience and Appearance Groups (same column 1, 4, 6 and 8 in the broadcast sheet)
If assuming that Basic 411 + Convenience 414 + Appearance 416 = 418, and it has stamped in column M1 = 8
Might be this theory makes sense
We have also M1=5 column (Rustyfender’s Royal Lancer) and M1=7 (the car that has been built later of yours on a three days)
Would be appreciated to know – what the differences between them and your car
What accessory groups have those cars?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | 56D500boy - 2019-12-17 9:38 PM
RDP - 2019-12-17 12:02 PM
but this is nothing new:
Maybe not to you but it is new to me!!
What is that snippet from?
: )
Unfortunately this is not Dodge, 56 Plymouth price list brochure.
Guys, look at the attachment, all Plymouth and Dodges have M8-3. This is a good start point.
We don't have enough IBM-body tag set yet.
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56LA.xlsx (14KB - 372 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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It seems like Powerflite Transmission for ’56 Dodges and ’56 Plymouths (M8=3)
Need an example equipped with manual transmission to confirm it
For Powerflite equipped Chryslers appears M3=4 for New Yorkers and M8=8 for Windsors
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | may PF, but why is different M-code for NY i Windsor? should be the same. |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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I have based on the Detroit-built Chrysler cowl tags, they have numerical codes (S=4 and S=8) same as LA-built Chryslers (M8=4 and M8=8)
’56 Windsors:
S = blank = Standard Manual Transmission
S4 = Powerflite Transmission
S8 = Powerflite Transmission and Power Steering
’56 New Yorkers – a little harder:
S = blank = Standard Powerflite Transmission and no info about Power Steering
Later, (since February 22, 1956), when the Torqueflite was offered, the New Yorker’s (and Imperial’s) numerical codes have changed slightly:
’56 New Yorkers and Imperial – later:
S4 = Powerflite Transmission and probably Power Steering
S6 = Torqueflite Transmission and Power Steering
Therefore I think that Detroit codes S4 and S8 matches to Los Angeles codes M8=4 and M8=8, while Dodges and Plymouth M8=3 codes are different, but decodes a Powerflite also…
 (Windsor Newport Code S4.jpg)
 (Windsor Town and Country Wagon Code S8.JPG)
 (Imperial Sedan Code S6.jpg)
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Windsor Newport Code S4.jpg (167KB - 384 downloads)
Windsor Town and Country Wagon Code S8.JPG (137KB - 389 downloads)
Imperial Sedan Code S6.jpg (220KB - 392 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | This seems correct.I don't know these Detroit tags well. Are you absolutely sure that the 'S' code is transmission code?
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Yes, I am sure.
These Chrysler Detroit-built cowl tags «ABCDEFGHJKMS» are had begun since 1953 model year, and the letters «TUVW» were added in 1956…
During 1953 through 1956 codes has been changing, but column S always indicates a transmission code and Power Steering presence or it absence…
I don’t know why… maybe because the power steering pump has been mounting (to generator) on the powerplant with transmission assembly, before shipping to the assembly line…
Robert, something else. From listing of options of your car, I can choose some items:
Backup Lights
Glove Box Light
Hand Brake Warning Signal Light
Luggage Compartment Light
Safety Padded Dash
Windshield Washer
Prismatic Mirror
It is all Windsor Safety Accessory Group that might be coded as «1» in M1=1 or M5=1 column… |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | Nice, so the M8 code we have explained.
yes, it looks like a safety group. Unfortunately, LA card does not have accessory group item. |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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I’ll continue…
LA-built 1956 DeSoto Fireflite Sportsman recently offered for sale on ebay:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=73230&...
As shown on the pictures, the car has:
Powerflite Transmission
Manual Steering
Power Brakes
Manual Windows
Power Seat
Full Leather Upholstery
Heater
Radio 9 Tube – because it has a 5 push button (8 Tube – 6 push button; correct me, if I’m wrong)
Rear Shelf Speaker
Dual Rear Aerials
Solex Tinted Glass at all Window areas
Sun Cap Visor above the Windshield
Inside Mirror only
The cowl tag picture shows SG = 5, M8 = 4, and M9 = 8
If SG = 1 is a Solex Glass as stated above in this thread, it seems like SG = 5 is a Solex Glass + Sun Cap Visor
I have a couple picture of cowl tag with SG = 4, but this still have a mystery… or it might be Sun Cap Visor without Solex Glass…
I don’t want to argue about M8 = 4 and M9 = 8, but interesting is next:
M8 = 3 and M9 = 8: Powerflite, Radio, Heater – Nathan’s (aka Powerflite) Plymouth Savoy
M8 = 4 and M9 = 2: Powerflite, Radio, Heater, PS, PB – Chrysler New Yorker
M8 = 4 and M9 = 3: Powerflite, Radio, Heater, PS, PB – DeSoto Fireflite Sportsman (not this one)
M8 = 4 and M9 = 0: Powerflite, Radio, Heater, PS, PB – DeSoto Fireflite Sedan (M9 = 0, i.e. blank – I’m not wrong)
M8 = 8 and M9 = 8: Powerflite, Radio, Heater, PS, PB – Robert’s (aka RDP) Chrysler Windsor Nassau
M8 = 4 and M9 = 8: Powerflite, Radio, Heater, PB – this DeSoto Fireflite Sportsman (which one for sale)
Seems these options like Power Steering, Power Brakes and Power Seat (!) are nonstampable on the 1956 LA cowl tags…
The Power Windows only in the EW column…
 (Cowl Tag.JPG)
 (Radio 5 Push Button.JPG)
 (Dual Antennas.JPG)
 (Rear Seat Speaker.JPG)
 (Power Seat.JPG)
 (No Power Steering.JPG)
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Cowl Tag.JPG (101KB - 379 downloads)
Radio 5 Push Button.JPG (120KB - 387 downloads)
Dual Antennas.JPG (105KB - 379 downloads)
Rear Seat Speaker.JPG (87KB - 372 downloads)
Power Seat.JPG (105KB - 381 downloads)
No Power Steering.JPG (112KB - 401 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9670
Location: So. Cal | I think you may have to separate out the upper end cars from the lower end cars, because power steering is standard on those cars. So power steering might not be included in the code on them. That seems apparent in the M9=0, so that power steering couldn't be included in those options.
I would conclude from your list that M8=4 is the same as M8=3, but includes power brakes, because power brakes is an option for all the cars. The single M8=8 must include all the M8=4 which has power brakes, but also includes other stuff not known about. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | another De Soto and updated list
Edited by RDP 2020-02-14 12:23 PM
 (LA-DeS_1 (3).jpg)
 (LA-DeS_1 (4).jpg)
 (LA-DeS_1 (5).jpg)
 (LA-DeS_1 (1a).jpg)
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LA-DeS_1 (3).jpg (101KB - 381 downloads)
LA-DeS_1 (4).jpg (68KB - 374 downloads)
LA-DeS_1 (5).jpg (98KB - 372 downloads)
LA-DeS_1 (1a).jpg (94KB - 381 downloads)
56LA.xlsx (16KB - 368 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | all Plymouth and Dodge have M8=3, but not all have power brakes.
M8 does not include power brakes
 (1a.JPG)
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1a.JPG (108KB - 380 downloads)
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Expert
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Nathan, as Robert noted above, the cars with M8=3 not all have power brakes
The ’56 Power Steering optional equipment for all cars, except Imperial;
The ’56 Power Brakes standard on all Imperials, Chrysler New Yorker, Chrysler 300B and DeSoto Adventurer
Although your logical is understandable: (M8=3 is a Powerflite, M8=4 is a Powerflite plus Power Brakes)
If we will follow it further, the M8=8 could be Powerflite plus Power DISC Brakes, it was standard on Crown Imperials…
Robert, thanks for sharing.
It seems that my guessing about SG4 is right.
The picture from inside the car shows the windshield is clear, non-tinted, and the upper molding was removed…
So, what we have:
SG1 = Solex Tinted Glass
SG4 = Windshield Upper Moulding
SG5 = Solex Tinted Glass and Windshield Upper Moulding
P.S. The new «old » picture with code SG4 to your listing…
 (Windshield Moulding Upper.JPG)
 (SG4 Example.JPG)
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Windshield Moulding Upper.JPG (86KB - 380 downloads)
SG4 Example.JPG (232KB - 377 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9670
Location: So. Cal | Are you sure about power brakes being standard on New Yorkers, Adventurers and 300's? I know for a fact that it wasn't standard in 1957 on a New Yorker. I own a '57 New Yorker that didn't come with power brakes. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2020-02-14 7:55 PM
Although your logical is understandable: (M8=3 is a Powerflite, M8=4 is a Powerflite plus Power Brakes)
If we will follow it further, the M8=8 could be Powerflite plus Power DISC Brakes, it was standard on Crown Imperials…
that's not enough infos to say yes
that's enough infos to say no
M8=4 - both Chryslers are NY, pb is standard
M8=8 - is Windsor, |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | Powerflite - 2020-02-14 8:16 PM
Are you sure about power brakes being standard on New Yorkers, Adventurers and 300's? I know for a fact that it wasn't standard in 1957 on a New Yorker. I own a '57 New Yorker that didn't come with power brakes.
 (pb.JPG)
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pb.JPG (22KB - 371 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | Odd that they would make it standard in '56 and optional in '57. |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Yes, you are right: in 1957-58 New Yorker has Power Steering as standard equipment and Power Brakes – optional, but
1955-56 New Yorkers: Power Steering – optional and Power Brakes – standard…
 (1956_Chrysler_New_Yorker_Prestige-16.JPG)
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1956_Chrysler_New_Yorker_Prestige-16.JPG (128KB - 365 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2020-02-14 7:55 PM
So, what we have:
SG1 = Solex Tinted Glass
SG4 = Windshield Upper Moulding
SG5 = Solex Tinted Glass and Windshield Upper Moulding
OK, but upper molding is standard in NY. Standard equipment is included on the body plate? |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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I think not.
Maybe it is standard on the top-level hardtops Windsor Newport and New Yorker St.Regis only?
Like on the ’55 DeSotos…
So, my theory is wrong?
 (55 Desoto Codes.png)
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55 Desoto Codes.png (41KB - 377 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU |
Oh, it looks so simple, small cars have M8 = 3, large cars M8 = 4. But my Windsor has M8 = 8. What this is about?
frwl - 2020-02-14 7:55 PM
P.S. The new «old » picture with code SG4 to your listing…
Thanks, more info about this De Soto? |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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More info on this old thread. Scroll down...
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=72545&... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | I mean SG4 data plate car |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Unfortunately the picture only. No info about the car.
It’s interesting for myself…
And another picture of ’56 DeSoto, if you need. Bad to see, but probably SG4 car too. No info about this car too…
 (1.jpg)
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1.jpg (161KB - 474 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | Thanks, first big car with M8 = 3. |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Do you have a data plate (or info like in your table) of cars with manual trans?
Can you show me a full row for A/C cars in your table? (highlighted in yellow)
 (get-attachment.jpg)
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get-attachment.jpg (73KB - 449 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU | De Soto https://desoto.org/community/discussion/new-desoto-owner-with-questi...
SG 4
M5 2
M6 2
M8 4
M9 3
SCHED 1011
NO 4015
MODEL S23
BT 026
PT 411
TR 568
 (des pink.JPG)
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des pink.JPG (73KB - 418 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2020-02-14 10:29 PM
.
Do you have a data plate (or info like in your table) of cars with manual trans?
Can you show me a full row for A/C cars in your table? (highlighted in yellow)
sorry, no info about the manual trans
updated full list in attachment
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56LA.xlsx (17KB - 417 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2020-02-15 9:23 AM
sorry, no info about the manual trans
I am in contact with two people with real D500-1 "race" cars, i.e. heavy duty chassis, 5.5 x 5 hubs and real Imperial brakes and manual transmissions (with overdrive). I have seen both of the IBM cards and can confirm that their transmission code is "2" as in 332 on the IBM card. I think that "1" as in 331 = 3 spd manual but no over drive.
The problem is both of these D500-1s are Detroit cars, i.e. VIN 35......, and therefore their cowl data tag is different than the LA tags that you two (Igor and Robert) seem to have found the most.
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Thank you Robert, I got your excel table.
Are you sure 100% about this Plymouth (row#14) has equipped with A/C?
I have a picture of cowl tag of this car (see picture below), but no info about equipment…
Some correction to DeSoto in row# 16:
You forgot to note Power Seat in «other option» column;
Sched No. 0227 must be 4028 instead 4026 in «info» column (see picture below)
That is a question: Power Seat option is not stamped on the cowl tag…
 (Is this AC car.jpg)
 (Power Seat 4 Way.JPG)
 (Sched No 0227_4028.JPG)
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Is this AC car.jpg (147KB - 453 downloads)
Power Seat 4 Way.JPG (105KB - 471 downloads)
Sched No 0227_4028.JPG (101KB - 459 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Robert:
A well equipped DeSoto Fireflite Sportsman to your «collection»…
Of course with cowl tag and serial number pictured…
Power Steering
Power Brakes
Power Windows
Power Seat
Heater
Air Conditioning
5 Push Button Radio with Rear Shelf Speaker (bad to see behind rear seat on the picture# 4)
Dual Rear Antennas
Solex Glass at all window areas plus Windshield Upper Molding
Dual Clock – on the dash panel and in the steering wheel hub
Dual Outside Rear View Mirrors and Inside One
Kelsey Hayes Wire Wheels, etc…
The pictures says for itself…
 (1.JPG)
 (2.JPG)
 (3.JPG)
 (4.JPG)
 (5.JPG)
 (6.JPG)
 (7.JPG)
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1.JPG (105KB - 439 downloads)
2.JPG (108KB - 460 downloads)
3.JPG (104KB - 446 downloads)
4.JPG (107KB - 441 downloads)
5.JPG (107KB - 458 downloads)
6.JPG (110KB - 449 downloads)
7.JPG (126KB - 442 downloads)
8.JPG (134KB - 458 downloads)
9.JPG (59KB - 493 downloads)
10.JPG (47KB - 490 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
Igor and Robert: To be clear, that beautiful Desoto (some woman must have picked the colours, etc), did *NOT* leave the factory with Air Conditioning. The A/C compressor and air distribution system (hanging under the dash) are NOT OE. Makes me wonder what else was/is NOT OE.
Look behind the steering wheel.
OE A/C in 1956 had a huge unit in the trunk and scoops on the rear fender and ducting on the rear parcel tray
Edited by 56D500boy 2020-02-15 4:46 PM
 (1956MoparAccessoriesACpage_small.jpg)
 (56DodgeCustomRoyalD500WithAirConCompressorEtc.jpg)
 (56DodgeCustomRoyalD500WithAirConShowingAirScoops.jpg)
 (ACVentsAndRadioSpeakerIn1956Imperial.jpg)
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1956MoparAccessoriesACpage_small.jpg (215KB - 447 downloads)
56DodgeCustomRoyalD500WithAirConCompressorEtc.jpg (55KB - 456 downloads)
56DodgeCustomRoyalD500WithAirConShowingAirScoops.jpg (48KB - 427 downloads)
ACVentsAndRadioSpeakerIn1956Imperial.jpg (102KB - 428 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | thanks, I corrected mistakes
frwl - 2020-02-15 10:08 PM
.Are you sure 100% about this Plymouth (row#14) has equipped with A/C?
I have a picture of cowl tag of this car (see picture below), but no info about equipment…
I'm not sure. it's a Daryl car, you can ask him
dludvik76 - 2019-01-28 5:18 PM
Right now, I only know it's a v8 auto car, AC, NO PS. I'm picking it up in a couple of weeks and doing some pre-research. You guys are correct, it is a white / pine green car as well.
Beautiful De Soto, I'll add to the list |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | 56D500boy - 2020-02-15 10:42 PM
.
Igor and Robert: To be clear, that beautiful Desoto (some woman must have picked the colours, etc), did *NOT* leave the factory with Air Conditioning.
you're right, Dave |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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I looking in old thread and found this:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23448&...
The man who bought Golden Royal Lancer describes his car:
«It has no radio, thus a radio delete plate, no power steering or no power brakes. Does have a heater/defroster and that is about it.»
«It is indeed the powerflite 2 speed automatic.»
So, let’s see to the attached picture of the cowl tag: SG=1, M2=4 and M8=3 (see picture below)
We are discussed above SG=1 (Solex Glass) and guessed that M8=3 (Powerflite)…
Maybe M2=4 is a Heater? I compared 4 to 1956 Plymouth Codes sheet… The Heater has code 354!!!
I do scroll down this tread and found another else Golden Lancer cowl tag: SG=1, M2=4 and M8=3 (M9=3 too)
Again: No PS, no PB, but it has Tinted Glass (SG=1), Powerflite (M8=3) and Heater… M2=4
Take a closer look to Dave’s cowl tag: SG=1, M1=8, and M2=empty; and South Carolina cowl tag: SG=1, M1=7, and M2=empty
Both cars have heaters, but M2 is empty: they should be M2=4. But Dave’s car has three accessory groups, one of these (Basic) includes a heater. It has power steering and power brakes also, as a South Carolina car. So, maybe M1=8 means PS, PB, and three accessory groups, and maybe M1=7 means PS, PB, and two accessory group (one of these should be Basic)
I am continuing and now… Kelly’s (aka Rusty Fender) cowl tag: SG=1, M1=5, M2=4 and M8=3 (M9=8 too)
I have no photo of engine bay, but I think the heater is present: M2=4. Now about M1=5 (Any accessory group, as I guessing above): Why do they stamping M2=4, if Accessory Groups M1=5 are present?
Answer is simply: The car has accessory group (or groups) but not including a BASIC group with Heater… It has Convenience or Appearance group.
Thus, if this is not PS and PB car – column M1 is empty
M1=empty and M2=4 is a heater only
M1=5 and M2=4 is a Convenience or Appearance Group singly or both and Heater (no Basic Group)
M1=7 and no M2 is a Basic Group and one of two: Convenience or Appearance
M1=8 and no M2 is a Basic Group, Convenience Group and Appearance Group
By the way: M1=7 and M1=8 cars have equipped with PS and PB both
M1=5 – hard to see, although on the steering wheel in the cabin picture, just on the right to Dodge badge we can see a Power Steering script… so my theory is confirms. Anyway: need to see a picture of the engine bay…
 (Golden Lancer No. 1.jpg)
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Golden Lancer No. 1.jpg (81KB - 402 downloads)
Golden Lancer No. 2.jpg (39KB - 413 downloads)
Dave's car an SC car.jpg (111KB - 407 downloads)
Rusty Fender Cowl Tag.jpg (92KB - 397 downloads)
Rusty Fender interior.jpg (94KB - 404 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
Igor: I will need to take some time to digest what you said.
In the meantime, I need to add that the SC 56 D500 Custom Royal Sedan (twin to mine, including colours and LA build) differs from mine on one important thing: it has Air Con.
Not sure what that does to your interpretation but there it is.
Good luck
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56DodgeD500CustomRoyal4drSedanBlueOnBlue_2_small.jpg (134KB - 408 downloads)
56DodgeD500CustomRoyal4drSedanBlueOnBlue_EngineBay_small.jpg (149KB - 404 downloads)
56DodgeD500CustomRoyal4drSedanBlueOnBlue_5_small.jpg (130KB - 431 downloads)
56DodgeD500CustomRoyal4drSedanBlueOnBlue_4_small.jpg (80KB - 388 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | Igor, if your theory works, it should be assumed that the cars from columns 8 and 11 do not have PB and PS?
It doesn't seem to work for Plymouth
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Dave: since 1953 and until 1958 model year, Heater and Air Conditioning options had separate columns in the cowl tag. I don’t know why, maybe because AC was a separate unit which located in the trunk. At least it is correctly with reference to Chrysler cars. It sounds absurd, but the presence of heater not affects the presence AC. Just since 1958, the heater and AC option have united in single column and have had codes 341, 342, 343, 344 and 345.
Yes, South Carolina car has AC and it may be stamped in the M1=7 column. But your car has M1=8 (PS, PB and all Accessory Groups) while SC car has M1=7 (same options like your car plus AC) it is not logically. It should be M1=9, at least because AC has code 369 in the ’56 Plymouth sheet… It might be stamped in the M3=7 column, not in the M1=7. And, are you sure that SC car has FACTORY installed AC? Could the AC and rear seat speaker have been installed in the FACTORY together?
Robert: the cars that have empty M1 column do not have PS and PB
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | Ok, I get it now. PB+PS+AG it makes sense, but how about it:
I think the same scheme should be used for all brands. Not only Dodge. Am I right or wrong?
So, standard equipment probably doesn't appear on the plate. I marked the stantard eq. in the table (s).
New Yorkers have PB as standard, so M1 is empty. Windsor M1=1 (PB+PS). But PS in NY is not a standard.
There is another situation in DeSotos. All cars have M1 empty. But most have PB, some cars PS.
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a2a56.JPG (143KB - 398 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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I understood what you are talking about. I don’t know exactly – this is just my guessing based on first picture I posted, where M2=4 and M8=3 and further confirming by next pictures (options). The one thing is important: standard ’56 Dodge equipped with tinted glass, heater and automatic transmission only, has SG=1, M2=4 and M8=3 codes – these facts stated by his owner. No PS and PB. This is the starting point for determining further options for decoding other cars.
I am just assuming, that M1 column is an Accessory Groups Code, because cars equipped with heaters and having an empty M2 column may have a group of accessories where it is (heater) already included.
Maybe the column M1 is not show PS and PB at all. With reference to Chrysler models – it maybe focus contains in the next codes: M3=5, M5=1 or M5=2 – I don’t know. Same situation with DeSoto. Anyway: need more pictures of LA-built cowl tags…
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | another NY
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Chrysler-New-Yorker/223972433883?hash=...
oops I see that Igor found it too
SG=5, M3=5, M8=4 just like in a Dieter's car. Only M9 is different
Edited by RDP 2020-04-09 3:02 PM
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c72.JPG (106KB - 414 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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So, if I have seen correctly:
Schedule 0502 0201 – May 02, 1956
Mode C72 – New Yorker
Body Type 045 = New Yorker 4 Door Sedan
Paint – Cloud White (code 41)
Trim – Black Nylon and Turquoise Brocatelle (Code 49) – non-leather interior
That’s true Robert – it is like a Dieter’s car.
So, what they have in common except body type, paint scheme and trim material:
Arrived car: SG=5, M3=5, M8=4, M9=3
Dieter’s car: SG=5, M3=5, M8=4, M9=8
Power Steering – both have
Power Brakes – both have
Heater – both have
6 Button Radio – both have
Antenna – both have
Rear Seat Speaker – ???
Solex Glass throughout – both have
Sun Cap Visor above Windshield – both have
Windshield Washer – Dieter’s car only
Left Outside Mirror – both have
Right Outside Mirror – probably non-factory item on the arrived car
Inside Mirror – not seen on the Dieter’s car… arrived car only
So, what the difference between these cars?
Dave, Robert, Nathan… any ideas by your opinion?
Something wrong with the antenna in this car… Maybe it is optional EXTRA LONG antenna?
If just assuming that M9 column means different combinations of the RADIO – ANTENNA – REAR SEAT SPEAKER:
Radios: 6 Button or 5 Button
Aerials: Manual, Extra Long, Dual or Power assisted
Rear Seat Speaker: Yes or No
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1.JPG (146KB - 394 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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1956 Chrysler Prices Dealer Sheet
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1956 Prices.jpg (240KB - 434 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Found this 1956 Dodge cowl tag picture here…
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=47333&...
SG=1
M1=8
M2=4
M8=3
M9=4
Model D631 – Coronet
Looks like Coronet Lancer Hardtop Coupe with V8 engine (Body 816)
Couldn’t see a Paint Code…
It has Deluxe Black Trim (Code 531)
 (1.jpg)
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1.jpg (89KB - 399 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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This is a cowl tag picture of LA-build 1958 Coronet found here:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=47333&...
D500neil interpreted code M5=1 as Left Outside Rear View Mirror option (code 401 in 1958)
Dave, your car has M5=2 option on the cowl tag;
According to your 1955 Dodge codes spreadsheet, it might be LH Mirror too – code 402 (and probably in 1956)
Robert’s Windsor Nassau does not have left mirror, but prismatic – does, and his cowl tag says M5=1 (code 401 in the spreadsheet)
What do you think?
 (M5=1.jpg)
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M5=1.jpg (46KB - 391 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9670
Location: So. Cal | His car also had power brakes, power steering, torqueflite, e-brake light, padded dash, heater, solex glass? & maybe deluxe interior. All of that just left off the data tag?
My '58 Coronet also has a lone M5=1, and it had left mirror, power steering, torqueflite, radio, heater, solex glass & deluxe interior.
Of all the options there why code just the mirror? But in comparing my car with his, we both have the same lousy information on the tag, but we have very different options on our cars, so it is obvious that LA tags in '58 became quite useless in determining what options the car has.
Edited by Powerflite 2020-05-13 10:31 AM
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58LancerBodyTag.jpg (164KB - 394 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Hi Nathan! And what do you think about this:
The Spring Special 1958 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=73762&...
M3=5, M4=3 and M5=1
Maybe M3=5 means spring special package? (Like on the Detroit-built Regal Lancers tag first number «5» in the paint code: 5XSX, 5SXS or 5SAS…)
While a M4=3 means Dual Antennas (code 333)?
Any thoughts?
 (5-3-1.jpg)
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5-3-1.jpg (101KB - 388 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2020-05-13 2:48 PM
Robert’s Windsor Nassau does not have left mirror, but prismatic – does, and his cowl tag says M5=1 (code 401 in the spreadsheet)
Ok, says M5=1, but not 401 on the sheet |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Robert: You are not alone
Cowl tag shows SG=3, while build sheet shows 7 (Solex Glass Code 467)
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1.jpg (240KB - 402 downloads)
2.jpg (233KB - 440 downloads)
3.jpg (189KB - 381 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | it doesn't make sense, but it's interesting |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Sharing my guesses about «SG» column on the ’56 DeSoto cowl tag
SG is a Solex Glass as we know, but what if:
SG = 3 is a Group Code #3
SG = 4 is a Group Code #4
SG = 5 is a Group Code #5
Besides same items all groups have solex glass and differ by radios only…
No radio (group #3); 8 Tube Radio with 6 push buttons (group #4); 9 Tube Radio with 5 push buttons (group #5)
There are many examples in this thread for check this
And on the ’56 Chrysler cowl tag:
SG = 1 is a Solex Glass
SG = 5 is a Convenience Group (Detroit-built code 5) that including Solex Glass besides the mirrors – see below
The Chrysler has only one group including tinted glass (instead three groups on DeSoto)
Not sure about Windsor’s numerical indexes (order codes), but New Yorker has following codes (based on Detroit-built codes):
3 = Custom Group
5 = Convenience Group (only this group is indirectly shown SG=5 column, I guess)
7 = Power Group
9 = Power Steering only
Dieter’s Chrysler cowl tag picture confirms this (solex glass and left O/S mirror are visible on the picture), but I have not any Windsor’s cowl tag picture with SG=5 on it to confirm this.
Windsor may be having same codes:
1 = Safety Group
3 = Custom Group
5 = Convenience Group
7 = Power Group
9 = Power Steering only
Dodge has not accessory groups that having tinted glass, therefore if the car has equipped with it – «SG» will be «1» always.
P.S. By the way, besides the Convenience Group #5, Dieter’s car also has prismatic mirror and custom steering wheel – items including in the Custom Group #3.
Aren’t they showed on his IBM card casually? 453 and 455?
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DeSoto Accessory Groups.jpg (64KB - 419 downloads)
Example 1 picture 1.jpg (101KB - 376 downloads)
Example 1 picture 2.jpg (120KB - 374 downloads)
Example 2 picture 1.jpg (59KB - 372 downloads)
Example 2 picture 2.jpg (105KB - 371 downloads)
Chrysler Accessory Groups.JPG (178KB - 366 downloads)
Example 3 picture 1.jpg (176KB - 380 downloads)
Example 3 picture 2.jpg (180KB - 372 downloads)
Example 3 picture 3.jpg (191KB - 390 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | I don't know, maybe it's a good way. My Windsor has a Safety Group (I think).
If SF = 1, maybe M1 or M5 means accessory groups? |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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I also think that M1=1 or M5=1 is accessory group, but don’t know which one…
Continuing my previous post (where codes 453 and 455 are maybe means accessory groups #3 and #5), your IBM card has code 451 in same area (accessory group #1). It might be confirming that.
I’m also guessing the code 344 on your IBM card (and Dieter’s car too) is a Heater
The heater-equipped Detroit-built Chryslers have code 4 (or 6 for Gasoline Heater)
Next digit on your card is «3» (code 353) and on the Dieter’s car is «4» (code 354), I think is a Radio:
Detroit-built Chryslers Radio Codes:
1 = Electro Touch Tuner and Rear Seat Speaker
2 = Electro Touch Tuner
3 = Music Master and Rear Seat Speaker
4 = Music Master
You told that your car has Music Master Radio and Rear Seat Speaker (3 = code 353) and probably Dieter’s car (4 = 354) has same radio without rear speaker
But the first «6» on the Dave’s Dodge is still the question…
I still stand my guess about automatic transmission codes (also based on Detroit-built car codes):
New Yorker
M8 = 3 = 423 = Powerflite without Power Steering
M8 = 4 = 424 = Powerflite and Power Steering
Windsor
M8 = 3 = 423 = Powerflite without Power Steering (but I have not example to confirm that)
M8 = 8 = 428 = Powerflite and Power Steering
I don’t know why LA-built Dodges equipped with Powerflite have M8=3 only (with or without power steering)
I guess the power equipment of LA-built Dodges stamped in the M1 column according to Dave’s listing based on 1955 Mike Petersen’s book:
M1 = 1 = 341 = Power Steering
M1 = 4 = 344 = Power Seat 4 Way
M1 = 5 = 345 = Power Brakes
M1 = 6 = 346 = Power Brakes and Power Seat 4 Way
M1 = 7 = 347 = Power Steering and Power Brakes and Power Seat 4 Way
M1 = 8 = 348 = Power Steering and Power Brakes (Dave’s car has it)
M1 = 9 = 349 = Power Steering and Power Seat 4 Way
Power Windows option occupy separate «EW» column…
And the last: Detroit-built Chrysler Windsors equipped with power brakes have code «5». This option standard on the New Yorkers, 300Bs and Imperials
Robert, your IBM card has only one «5» (code 385); it might be designated a power brakes. (Dieter’s car has no code 385 because power brakes is standard)
Therefore 381 might be a solex glass (by analogy with 1956 Plymouth Order Codes, where 361 = solex glass and 365 = power brakes)
Dieter's IBM card has not code 381 because solex glass included in accessory group #5
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2020-06-10 3:20 PM
Therefore 381 might be a solex glass (by analogy with 1956 Plymouth Order Codes, where 361 = solex glass and 365 = power brakes)
Dieter's IBM card has not code 381 because solex glass included in accessory group #5
:)
why by analogy? My IBM also has a 361 and Dieter card too.
In NY Solex included in # 5, but its mean that there is no IBM code? |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Wrong told… I’ll try to explain…
Your car has power brakes. Detroit code of this item has code «5». Your IBM Card has only one 5 (code 385).
According to 1956 Plymouth Order Codes, the power brakes option have code 365 (not a 385 as you have).
Therefore I guessed that your IBM card code 385 matches to 1956 Plymouth’s code 365.
And further, your IBM Card codes 361 – 381 – 385 actually are Plymouth’s codes 341 – 361 – 365.
Where 361 solex glass, 365 power brakes, and 341 – something else (or not 341), I don’t know yet…
Otherwise your car is not equipped with power brakes and music master radio (in place of it Powerflite code 353)
Just a guessing… difficult and at the same time simply…
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | If I understand correctly: Chrysler code -20 = Plymouth code
If this is correct, it should work on all codes.
C - 20 = P
344 = 324 = no code
361 = 341 = heavy duty package
381 = 361 = solex
385 = 365 = power brakes
428 = 408 = no code
451 = 431 = generator
469 = 449 = no code
473 = 453 = no code
Sorry, I think it doesn't work.
So, the C / P codes are completely different or 361 is the solex code for all.
Why invent different codes for the same parts?
I think some codes are the same for all.
The codes on the Plymouth card do not use all places.
This is not 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. This is 1,3,4,5,8.
2,6,7,9 are codes for use by other brands.
Edited by RDP 2020-06-10 2:57 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Okay. All codes have same numbers, right?
What do you say for this?
Powerflite (Detroit card = 333, LA card = 353)
Power Brakes (Detroit card = 345, LA card = 365)
Radio (Detroit card = 339, LA card = 359)
Heater (Detroit card 334, LA card = 354) etc.
Only accessory groups matches (351, 354, 356)
I think only last digit of codes matches, first two ones are not…
 (Detroit IBM Card.jpg)
 (Los Angeles IBM Card.jpg)
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Detroit IBM Card.jpg (239KB - 385 downloads)
Los Angeles IBM Card.jpg (235KB - 358 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | Ok, this is good news, it makes sense.
Chrysler Historical Services always use single digits.
If the last digit is the same for all plants it should be easy.
I meant the same codes for one plant, all makes, those that can be general e.g. PS PB Solex
Edited by RDP 2020-06-10 4:17 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
Igor and Robert: You guys are doing great trying to figure out both the 56 Dodge Detroit and LA IBM cards. Obviously there are differences between the two cards. Please don't argue about it. Come to a consensus. There are no living people who were there working at Chrysler who can help us out.
Not to muddy the waters but the LA card above is mine. My car came with NO radio (radio delete panel in place). I'm not sure whether the code would have been punched in the 35 column. I think the 35 column carries the accessory package codes. Mine 1,4,6 and 8 and the D500 Golden Lancer coupe 1,4,6 and 7. I've never actually seen the car so I don't know about its radio, only mine.
Edited by 56D500boy 2020-06-10 4:28 PM
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DaveFsIBMCard_Annotated_smaller.jpg (241KB - 372 downloads)
IBMProductionCardExample_LABuilt56DodgeGoldenLancer.jpg (243KB - 372 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | Well, It's just my 2 cents. I have no idea what the correct answer.
Igor, I'm not saying that your ideas are wrong.
It's fun and interesting to try different options.
I believe that one day we will succeed. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | lets try, for example my car;
PF, PS, PB, MM+RS, Heater, Carpet, 2-paint, Sf Group, Solex
344---------4-----------
353---------3-----------
361---------1-----------
381---------1-----------
385---------5-----------
428---------8-----------
451---------1-----------
469---------9-----------
473---------3-----------
Detroit codes:
3 = Powerflite
1 = Antenna Manual
3 = Music Master with Rear Seat Speaker
4 = Custom Conditionare Air Heater
1 = Solex
1 = Accessory Group Safety
9 = Power Steering
5 = Power Brakes
344---------4-----------Heater
353---------3-----------PF
361---------1-----------Solex
381---------1-----------
385---------5-----------PB
428---------8-----------
451---------1-----------AG Safety
469---------9-----------PS
473---------3-----------MM+RS
what do you say?
edit; 473 it must be wrong, or all
Dieters NY;
PS, MM, Heater, 2-paint, Solex, CS Wheel
Standard eqp. - PB, PF
344--------4--------- Heater
354--------4---------
361--------1--------- Solex
424--------1---------
453--------3--------- AG Custom
455--------5--------- AG Convenience
Dieter, we need your help!
.
Edited by RDP 2020-06-11 4:30 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2020-06-10 3:20 PM
I still stand my guess about automatic transmission codes (also based on Detroit-built car codes):
New Yorker
M8 = 3 = 423 = Powerflite without Power Steering
M8 = 4 = 424 = Powerflite and Power Steering
Windsor
M8 = 3 = 423 = Powerflite without Power Steering (but I have not example to confirm that)
M8 = 8 = 428 = Powerflite and Power Steering
I'm trying to understand why PF + PS code is completely different in NY and Windsor, while PF - PS is the same.
May there are three codes 3, 4, 8 for three different options? |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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You are almost right. Some corrections:
344---------4-----------Heater
353---------3-----------MM Radio + RS
361---------1-----------No idea yet…
381---------1-----------Solex
385---------5-----------Power Brakes
428---------8-----------Powerflite and Power Steering (423 = Powerflite only)
451---------1-----------AG Safety
469---------9-----------No idea (but maybe Power Steering separately)
473---------3-----------No idea too…
Or that:
Detroit Code 334---------344---------4-----------Heater
Detroit Code 333---------353---------3-----------MM Radio + RS (Detroit Code 334---------354 = MM Radio without RS)
Detroit Code ??? ---------361---------1-----------No idea yet… (it maybe Undercoating)
Detroit Code ??? ---------381---------1-----------Solex
Detroit Code 345---------385---------5-----------Power Brakes
Detroit Code 338---------428---------8-----------Powerflite and Power Steering (Detroit Code 333---------423 = Powerflite only)
Detroit Code 351---------451---------1-----------AG Safety
Detroit Code ??? ---------469---------9-----------No idea (but it maybe Power Steering separately)
Detroit Code ??? ---------473---------3-----------No idea too…
Dieter’s car:
Detroit Code 334---------344--------4-----------Heater
Detroit Code 334---------354--------4-----------MM Radio without RS
Detroit Code ??? ---------361--------1-----------No idea (Solex included in AG Convenience)
Detroit Code 334---------424--------1------------Powerflite and Power Steering (Detroit Code 333---------423 = Powerflite only)
Detroit Code 353---------453--------3------------AG Custom
Detroit Code 355---------455--------5------------AG Convenience
I’m very interesting also about problem PF + PS and PF – PS, but numbers are a stubborn thing…
If to say simply – New Yorker and Windsor Powerflite transmissions have different ratios and different codes
2,7 and 4,64 on New Yorker vs. 2,6 and 4,47 on Windsor. Maybe the question hidden here?
 (New Yorker specs.JPG)
 (Windsor specs.JPG)
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New Yorker specs.JPG (127KB - 373 downloads)
Windsor specs.JPG (138KB - 373 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | Thanks for corrections.
frwl - 2020-06-11 12:44 PM
I’m very interesting also about problem PF + PS and PF – PS, but numbers are a stubborn thing…
If to say simply – New Yorker and Windsor Powerflite transmissions have different ratios and different codes
2,7 and 4,64 on New Yorker vs. 2,6 and 4,47 on Windsor. Maybe the question hidden here?
Probably not, NY and Windsor ratio is different with and without PS. There should be four different codes. |
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Expert
Posts: 1890
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Find the old thread about Detroit-built order codes: «1955-1961 Chrysler 300.s Option Codes»
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=17607&...
1955 C300 Options and Accessories
8 = Power Steering = $113
4 = 4 Way Power Seat = $70
2 = Electric Windows = $102
8 = Standard Tune Radio & Antenna = $110
1 = Touch Tune Radio & Antenna = $128
4 = Heater = $92
1 = Solex Tinted Glass
8 = Kelsey Hayes Wire Wheels = $617.60
1 = Electric Clock
1956 300B Option & Accessories
1 = Manual Shift Transmission = $70
5 = Air Conditioning = $567
1 = Electro Touchtone Radio & Antenna
3 = Music Master Radio with R-Seat Speaker
1 = Solex Tinted Glass
4 = 4 Way Power Seat
6 = Instant Heat Heater
4 = Custom Conditionaire Heater
3 = Self Winding Steering Wheel Clock
9 = Power Steering (auto transmission only) = $97
8 = Kelsey Hayes Wire Wheels
5 & 7 = Hi-Way Hi-Fi (portable record player)
Robert: I also found your old thread about well-equipped New Yorker (called Rosie)
It might be confirming some Detroit-built order codes as well…
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=39393&...
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
As if this thread isn't "FUN" (??!!) enough already, while discussing another 56 Dodge I discovered/realized that the later build Detroit 56 Dodges made a switch to the 57 Dodge style cowl data tags and gave up on the 1955
style that they had previously used. The earliest switch that I have in my archives is May 24 1956.
frwl (Igor) is thinking that 397 = D500 but I can not confirm or deny that except the second tag below is a known D500 car and the other one is not.
No idea what 597 or 596 are.
We now have 3 cowl tag styles for the 56 Dodges:
1. Original Detroit based on 55 Dodge tags
2. LA tags
3. Late(r) run Detroit tags looking like the 57 Dodge tags. (Does that make the 57 Dodge tags actually 56 Dodge tags?)
Edited by 56D500boy 2020-06-11 11:24 PM
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56DodgeCoronet2drGoldenLancerDetroitBuildTag_late.jpg (134KB - 375 downloads)
JeffPs1956WhiteBlackRedCR4drD500CowlTag_TrimmedAndEnlarged.jpg (120KB - 373 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | This is not exactly what we are looking for, but look at the Excel attachment by Lancer Mike
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=59085&... |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2020-06-12 8:02 AM
This is not exactly what we are looking for, but look at the Excel attachment by Lancer Mike
Not what I was looking for but Lancer Mike should be congratulated for creating those Excel spreadsheets regarding the 1958 Body Data tags. That was a tonne of work. Way to go Mike!!
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU |
d500neil - 2015-08-15 1:57 AM
1955-1956 Dodges: fairly well, but they SHARE a common IBM Build card, and their options, on those cards, are not clearly
defined.
The 56 and the 61 Dodges are the most difficult to decode.
Good lock, on decoding the other FWDLK years' codes.
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | d500neil - 2015-08-15 1:57 AM
1955-1956 Dodges: fairly well, but they SHARE a common IBM Build card, and their options, on those cards, are not clearly
defined. The 56 and the 61 Dodges are the most difficult to decode.
Good lock, on decoding the other FWDLK years' codes.
If only Neil was alive so I could say "I couldn't agree with you more Neil. They are one h3LL of a B1tch"
Thanks for posting Robert.
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Dodge-D500-D500/174315969502?hash=item...
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The column power equipment shows 342, that means power seat as stated by owner, and ending on the last «2»
It matches to ’56 Plymouth order code 402 – power seat
And does not match to code 344 in the Mike’ Petersen’s Book…
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | frwl - 2020-06-20 1:32 AM.
The column power equipment shows 342, that means power seat as stated by owner, and ending on the last «2»
It matches to ’56 Plymouth order code 402 – power seat
And does not match to code 344 in the Mike’ Petersen’s Book…
It was only wishful thinking that Mike Petersen's 1955 Dodge order codes would work 100% for the 1956 Detroit Dodges so I am not too surprised.
The wagon does have power front seat but not power windows. But it does have PS and PB. It also has a code for "SPL MOTOR" (Special Motor) which
I presume is the D500 engine (which is -3509 from a previous advert for this car). Some of the interior (seat) fabric is wrong (replaced?)
Edited by 56D500boy 2020-06-20 10:31 AM
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A little summary for power groups 34x:
342 = Power Seat
344 = Power Windows – all
345 = Power Brakes (probably; because the last digit is «5»)
346 = ? (Dave’s car – I guess the «6» stands on this place exactly…)
I am assuming that «missing» codes might be:
341 = Power Steering
343 = Power Windows – Front only
Only Dave’s car and the station wagon equipped with PS and PB; and only these cars have accessory group 8 = ?ode 358
(I can't stop thinking, that 8 is power steering and brakes based on Mike Petersen’s book)
Could the ’56 Dodge accessory group #8 was the late «Power Group or Safety Group»? By analogue with ’57 and ’58 Dodges safety group that included PS and PB…
What the code 346 is this? PS + PB (341 + 345) too?
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Power Group 344.JPG (152KB - 464 downloads)
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Location: California | 56D500boy said the following ... "I believe that, despite what the IBM car suggests, the brakes on my car have been 12" CenterPlane since it left the LA factory in May 1956. There were no 11" CenterPlane brakes. I do NOT know why the IBM card suggests that there were. LA IBM cards are difficult to intrepret and LA cowl tags are worse." Interesting information that you have presented. But, if you say that the 1956 D500 cars never had 11" brakes, didn't the other 1956 Dodge car models (except police cars) use 11" x 2" brakes ? Also, by looking at your car's IBM build card, it also looks like it is marked off with a 10" or 11" clutch, weren't that apply that your car had originally a manual transmission, instead of an automatic Powerflite 2-speed transmission that you car had when you first purchased it used ? Could you please explain ? |
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | chryslerman101 - 2020-09-12 6:01 PM
Could you please explain ?
I wish I could. No one alive can.
After almost 4 years and many people trying to help me figure things out, we still have not unravelled the tangled mess that is the 56 Dodge LA plant IBM cards and cowl tags. We know now that the cards were based on 1955 Detroit Plymouth build cards and all the slots that pertained to that car. Why the LA 56 Dodges got these cards and what they really mean can only be answered by people who worked in the plant and now are likely very dead.
We should arrange a séance and get to the bottom this.
Edited by 56D500boy 2020-09-12 11:21 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | https://www.facebook.com/groups/ForwardLook/
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M1=5 code again... as on Rusty Fender’s Royal... Power Brakes??? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
The easy stuff:
Because of the format of the cowl data tag, the car was built in the Los Angeles plant so it's VIN will start with 42
I think I see 05 23 under SCHED so the schedule build date was May 23, 1956. My car was built in LA on May 15 so this one's VIN will be close to mine 42616006
MODEL D631 = another LA quirk, not present on Detroit cowl tags. D63 = 56 Dodge, 1 = Coronet. D632 = Royal. D633 = Custom Royal
BT = Body = 816 = 8 = V8, 1 = Coronet, 6 = 2dr Hardtop ("Lancer"), 826 = Royal (all V8s) 2dr hardtop, 826 = Custom Royal (all V8s) 2dr hardtop
PT = Paint = 077 = Golden Lancer code, Sapphire White Roof and Lower, Gallant gold = middle (hood, upper fenders, upper doors, trunk lid)
TR = Trim = 531 = Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric with Cordagrain Seat Back and Deluxe Door Trim – Black (Examples in the 56 Dodge Trim thread):
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=65230&...
SG 1 = Solex Glass
Leaving
M1 5 =
M2 4 =
M8 3 =
Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-23 6:27 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | interesting that always M8 = 3, M2 = 4
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M8 = 3 is Powerflite probably |
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And M9 is a Delivery Route (probably too) |
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Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2021-01-23 6:41 PM
.
And M9 is a Delivery Route (probably too)
it's possible, Dieter's car and mine car have M9 = 8 and both were delivered by rail
Edit: or not, the Doug car was delivered by truck. There is a stamp on the IBM card, but no code in the upper right corner and M9 is blank.
Edited by RDP 2021-01-23 1:17 PM
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This one too...
Deliverde by truck but ROUTE space is empty...
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Maybe nearby delivery? |
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Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2021-01-23 7:24 PM
.
This one too...
Deliverde by truck but ROUTE space is empty...
I was just talking about it
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | frwl - 2021-01-23 10:24 AM . This one too...
Delivered by truck but ROUTE space is empty...
I have seen TRUCK stamped on other IBM cards with no corresponding ROUTE punches.
While on the topic. After an email discussion off-line with Igor, I checked my IBM card for "ROUTE". On the Los Angeles Dodge IBM cards "ROUTE" is punched in column 10 and printed in the extreme upper right corner of the card. (See attached).
My LA cowl data tag has M9 = 4 so I am pretty sure that M9 = route. Based on the letter I got from FCA Historical my car was first shipped (likely by Boat) to Portland Oregon and then delivered to Annacortes, Washington, likely by truck.
So Route 4 is probably "By boat, followed by truck", at least for LA built cars in/around 1956.
Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-23 1:42 PM
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What about this: DELIVERY ROUTE = 5
The railroad runs from Los Angeles to Compton
But State Route 47 (South Alameda) also runs there; the road runs parallel to the railroad
It was also possible delivery by truck
So what about delivery route: truck or railroad???
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Or ROUTE = 5 means "customer drive away"?
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | frwl - 2021-01-23 10:49 AM .
What about this: DELIVERY ROUTE = 5
The railroad runs from Los Angeles to Compton
But State Route 47 (South Alameda) also runs there; the road runs parallel to the railroad
It was also possible delivery by truck So what about delivery route: truck or railroad???
Sorry Igor. You missed the first key point 34977735 is a Detroit built car delivered to Compton CA. While the LA plant was at 5800-S-Eastern-Ave in the City of Commerce (an LA subburb) and Compton was only about 10 miles away,
this car (I know the owner) was built in Detroit and delivered to Compton.
If you look at the build date, Sept 20, 1955. It was built in Detroit a few weeks before the official release date for the 56 Dodges on Oct. 7, 1955.
So this car might have been one of the first cars delivered to the Compton dealer, perhaps before the LA plant was fully up to speed building 56 Dodges. (???)
Ironical, I know
Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-23 6:28 PM
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That's true sir. I was so busy trying to figure it out that I forgot to look at the serial number
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At least we now know a little more about the Late 1956 Dodge Tags:
Code 367 is present on Sedans, Hardtops, and Convertibles;
Code 367 does not mean either presence or absence for:
Automatic Transmission
Power Steering
Power Brakes
Power Windows
Radio
Heater
Sun Cap Visor on Sedans and Hardtops
But all the listed examples have two antennas and a left rear view mirror
Only one Station Wagon example has a single front antenna; (but it has the code 366 instead of 367)
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=75828&...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/324604560392?hash=item4b93f08408:g:k~0AAOSw...
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9904
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
That tag is from the stripper 56 Coronet V8 in this thread:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=75828&...
Here is the VIN:
The VIN shows that it was built in Detroit (starts with 34 or 35 not 42 like the LA plant)
The cowl data tag says that it was built around June 26, 1956. It also shows yet another change to the cowl data tag format. This one took up the format that was also used for the forthcoming 1957 models. You can see the 812 = V8 2dr post Coronet, the 528 trim code and the 40 = Cloud Grey Paint Code. Not sure about the 367 or the 595 considering this is a stripper with only an optional Powerflite (usually a nn3 in 1956). No radio = no aerial.
I wonder what 367 and 595 meant on a 57 Detroit Dodge data tag???
Edited by 56D500boy 2021-05-06 10:24 AM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU | 56D500boy - 2021-05-06 4:22 PM
Not sure about the 367
probably wheel covers, just like in Plymouth (if they used '56 codes)
Edited by RDP 2021-05-06 11:22 AM
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Yes; you are right David
The manual aerial goes with car if that has equipped with the radio
Dual aerials were extra equipment and that item should be stamped on the cowl tag; (although I do not believe it)
I act on the basis of "the opposite" that is, excluding what cannot be in an attempt to find out what could be…
I remember this thread «dedicated» to LA-built cars only; but you’re gave an example «late» 1956 Dodge cowl tag with 542 trim…
***
Robert: the wheel covers did not stamped on the cowl tags (I never seen it at least);
On the Broadcast Sheet – yes; on the data plate – are not…
Again: Just my guessing – no more bigger…
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Go to the mysteries, guys...
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I guessing as well that the 59x on the data tag is a DELIVERY ROUTE
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2021-05-06 8:17 AM
56D500boy - 2021-05-06 4:22 PM
Not sure about the 367
probably wheel covers, just like in Plymouth (if they used '56 codes )
That 56 Coronet 2 dr post 270 poly has three visible options: 1. Automatic, 2. (Maybe) armrests and 3. Wheel discs (but they might have been added way later).
I don't see 367 on the 56 Plymouth options list.
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Location: PL / EU | This list does not show all codes. |
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The cowl tag code 367 is not same the sales code 367...
The last "7" does something else matter...
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Looked at the Section F of 1956 Dodge Data Book - Model and Equipment:
Front and Rear Arm Rests are Standard equipment on all models...
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Dave: Gray over Pink 1956 Dodge Coronet Texan Convertible has 367 on the cowl tag too;
But it has equipped with Manual Transmission…
(You know what I am talking about)
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The 367 might be a stone shields on the rear quarter panels, although they have code 423 (ends on the 3) - according to the Detroit IBM card
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | frwl - 2021-05-07 7:35 AM.
The 367 might be a stone shields on the rear quarter panels, although they have code 423 (ends on the 3) - according to the Detroit IBM card
55 Detroit Dodge Stone Shields were Code 421.
REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=73742&...
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1956 Dodge D500-1 data tag and built sheet discussion:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23917&...
Dave, a couple quotes from this old thread about '56 order codes:
Yes Neil it does have the Solex tinted glass, No power windows. codes so far are, Body code 836 Custom Royal Lancer 2 Door Coupe, Paint Code 55 Sapphire White, Trim 543 Special Green (according to CHS, Maybe spring color?), 301 Solex tinted glass, 332 Overdrive Transmission, 335 Heater Defroster, 338 Music Master radio, 375 Backup Lights, 387 Wheel covers not deluxe, 414 Variable windshield wipers, 441 clock, 472 undercoating, 487 Misc extra equip (?), 494 Customer Pickup, 603 New Car Service Drive Away, 629 Dealer Fund, 017 Special Order, 345 Added and 344 Deleted is a running switch to Manual steering (may have intially tried to get power steering and this is not available with the Dual Four Barrel Carberator Group), unknown codes 314 and 323 (rear axle related), unknown code 359, 369 (probably Dual Four Barrel Carberator Group), unknown codes 630,641,657 (related to special order). Tim
From my decoding sheet, 323 is transmission, 369 is Dual Exhaust (but Wagons only, all others should be 368), 630 is Special Carburetor (!).
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And the trim code is 543 - Special Green; maybe need a link to the "56 trim codes? |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | frwl - 2021-10-18 5:27 AM .
And the trim code is 543 - Special Green; maybe need a link to the "56 trim codes?
The above D500-1 stuff is Tim Dupont's all white 56 Custom Royal Lancer 2 dr hardtop with the D500-1 (2 x 4 bbl D500 engine, plus all the race car suspension goodies, and manual/overdrive transmission).
This is the 543 interior:
REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=65230&...
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