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Location: Wild Wonderful | And from what I understand, it is going to ... yep ... Sweden. Surprise Surprise
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Location: Northen Virginia | Only a Swedish craftsman would dare to try to fix this car...And BigM of course...
Edited by hemidenis 2016-12-13 10:38 PM
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Location: Connecticut | Kurt - Did you get the VIN or data plate info ? I'd like to add it to my 59 Dodge conv registry. Also, any more pictures ? Where was it located ? Ron |
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Location: Wild Wonderful | Nope. I did not get that far. I asked him if this car was for sale and he said it was headed to Sweden.
It's on ForwardLook Facebook. I think he was from MI. |
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Location: Fleetwood, Pa | I hope he at least got $30k for it...... |
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Posts: 1886
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13049
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Nice find - it'll cost an arm and a leg to fix it, but I'm sure it will be on the road again. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Williams California | I love finding forgotten relics like this. It's becoming more and more unusual as time passes. |
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Posts: 4654
| Great find! They are still out there, and I'm glad someone found it, and it will be restored! |
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Posts: 1530
Location: ZH, Switzerland | It's a wonderful car and - I assume a good base to start with. It heads to Sweden. For me it sounds like an insurance that it comes back to the road again. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Posts: 854
| Nice find it will be nice to see this forgotten car come back to Life. |
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Location: Wild Wonderful | sidesho_bob1961 - 2016-12-14 6:21 AM
I hope he at least got $30k for it......
He did say that he was offered $10k for it. I guess that's what he took.
I think that is the going rate for a convertible VIN plate.
It is amazing that the glass still looks good. I would suggest that you remove the glass before attempting to move the car.
And it looks like all the badges are there, (that we can see).
And i think those are swivel seats in there.
To top it off, it still has a padded steering wheel horn button.
Simply Amazing.
Edited by 58DeSoDodge59 2016-12-14 12:58 PM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | I also Spoke to the new purchaser via PM, and he told me he had been offered $10k for it,
I was interested as i have a ideal Rust Free 2dr Royal HT sitting in my garage as a ideal Donor as havent made my mind up yet what i going to do with it..
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | Kurt do you know the Buyer in Sweden who bought it,, Wondering if it was Jan Fridberg ?? |
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Location: Wild Wonderful | Rebels-59 - 2016-12-14 12:43 PM
Kurt do you know the Buyer in Sweden who bought it,, Wondering if it was Jan Fridberg ??
I do not know the Buyer.
I'm sure it will make it's way to Jan's shop sometime.
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Williams California | A good chance that Carlo Notaro bought it. He manages to sniff out '59 Dodge convertibles like a pro. |
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | They are extremely lucky whoever got it, As it does appear to be a D500, as Emblem is more visible on the 2nd picture.. But also shows the Fin is rusted off the body..
Am gutted as my 59 Royal would be perfect to have the Convertible live again in a short space of time.. As mine has the Engine/ Trans fitted as well..
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Malung, SWEDEN | All interesting convertible projects that recently appeared in US has been sold to Sweden.
(300 C, 57 New Yorker and 59 CRL) Are you sleeping over there?  |
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| Any idea where in MI it was found? The buyer got a real bargain at 10K ! |
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Location: Wild Wonderful | hemidave - 2016-12-14 6:11 PM
Any idea where in MI it was found? The buyer got a real bargain at 10K !
Apparently somewhere close to Sterling Heights, MI |
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Location: little rock, AR | I also own a '59 D-500 missing the "500" part of the emblem. Am I missing a few bricks or do you think this new owner would let me borrow 1 emblem to have it repoped??? I'm sure he will want some new shiny ones for the resto. i would foot the bill. Someone help me before this car leaves the states. Thanks, Dorsey |
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Location: little rock, AR | NOT all of them went to Sweden. lol
Edited by oldwood 2016-12-14 8:08 PM
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| Chrys 68 - 2016-12-14 6:03 PM
All interesting convertible projects that recently appeared in US has been sold to Sweden.
(300 C, 57 New Yorker and 59 CRL) Are you sleeping over there? :)
The cost of restoration far exceeds the value in most cases. That eliminates the investment guy. Americans under the age of 50 who want to take on such a big project, rarely have the equipment and knowledge to do so. Those that do have the knowledge and the space, likely don't have the funds. The market for those that can afford it, have the space, the time, the desire and knowledge, is probably less than 10. Projects are a huge labor of love. Most that have that passion, already have a project they're working on. Taking on another, is too much. I applaud anyone taking on a full restoration of a car, a long multi year process. |
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Location: Northen Virginia | I agree, in the USA a car like this is mostly a parts car, or good for a clone using a 2dr HT, this car is probably like the Tulsa rust bucket with the floors, interiors and lowers gone, specially if it is a Michigan car. Also the rusted headlights and the rusted trough rear bumpers gives us more clues of the condition..The trunk may look like this poor 61.
Mechanically I can see it is all gone...
But what a beautiful car! the best front end ever in my opinion, would be nice to track the restoration...
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Location: Parts Unknown | Rebodying a car is NOT cloning. Cloning is building a car that did not exist.
I see this poor car needing a new frame as well, sitting on the ground like
that after living its life in a salted roads zone. Likely, this will be a case of
restoring the top mechanism and tags and rolling a new car under it !
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Location: Northen Virginia | Doc I'm confused but an example may help..
if someone tell you that found a rust free 58 Firesweep convertible but he also have a rusted out Adventurer and he transfer every Adventurer only parts to the Firesweep including the title and then he tell you this is my perfect rust free 58 Adventurer ragtop....what is that? |
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Location: Malung, SWEDEN | Based on a Sweep it will be a bas***d |
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Location: Parts Unknown | First of all, only the bare body of a Firesweep convertible will interchange,
and at the factory, the bodies were all the same for all series, so swapping
the bare Firesweep body onto a correct Adventurer frame/chassis is really
no different than what happened at the factory, other than the bodies to be
placed on Dodge chassis to be made into Firesweeps were sent to and assembled
at the Dodge plant. It is no different than swapping a good fender for a wasted
one, but on a larger scale. You cannot hang the Adventurer parts on a Firesweep,
because a Firesweep is 80% Dodge, starting with the frame being much smaller,
lighter, and unable to accept much of the real DeSoto parts that made an Adventurer
an Adventurer.
What matters is the core of the car .... using your example, a 58 Adventurer
convertible (?). If all the right parts are there to build a factory correct Adventurer
convertible, including ID tags and special equipment, then you have simply done
a body swap.
Now, if someone took a 58 Firesweep convertible and tried to make a 58 Adventurer
coupe into a ragtop, there would be parts problems .... the Adventurer frame would
be OK, but the X-member from the Firesweep is Dodge-Plymouth only. The tags would
read for an Adventurer coupe .... in other words, it has become something that never
was .... at no time was it ever a 58 Adventurer convertible. It is a home made creation
(clone) of a car someone wished they had, or wanted to create for bragging rights or
profit/fraud.
If a person were to use a 58 Firedome or Fireflite convertible as a base to swap an
Adventurer basket case onto, it could be done to factory specs if the restorer really
knew what details needed to be present. As long as the body tags, paperwork, and
essential Adventurer equipment was present, I would call that a rebody, not a clone.
Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2016-12-15 2:56 AM
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | hemidenis - 2016-12-15 12:38 AM
Doc I'm confused but an example may help..
if someone tell you that found a rust free 58 Firesweep convertible but he also have a rusted out Adventurer and he transfer every Adventurer only parts to the Firesweep including the title and then he tell you this is my perfect rust free 58 Adventurer ragtop....what is that?
Reboding= the same thing most insurance companes do when you wreck your car and they put/pay for a 1) used quarter trunk assy 2) front clip 3) roll your truck over another cab from another truck. Unlike a camaro mustang or corvette we can not open a book and say i need part A B and C |
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Location: Northen Virginia | ok it is more clear now, I don't really know much of the Desoto or Dodge line up. But Making a 300G form a Newport base it is possible since the cars are basically the same from the front door back and I guess it could be accepted as a factory 300 when is done, personally it is just a Newport with a 300G front end...
Edited by hemidenis 2016-12-15 9:19 AM
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Location: Fleetwood, Pa | Other than the build tag and perhaps some metal around the convertible top well, I would guess that no other sheet metal will be retained from the automobile pictured above..... |
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Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom. | Rebodied vehicles is a normal thing nowadays in the restoration buisness, the only difference being here is unlike ford and chevrolet new bodyshells cannot be bought, repair panels are more or less non existence, so another vehicle has to give up its parts to restore another vehicle, in a way it's more recycling and a lot better for the environment than using a newly made part, over here in the UK, the vehicle licensing does have a category for reconstructing classic vehicles,
6. Reconstructed Classics
The reconstructed classic category is intended to
support the restoration of unregistered classic vehicles.
Reconstructed vehicles must comprise of genuine
period components all over 25 years old, and of the
same specification. The appropriate vehicle enthusiasts
club for the marque (make) must confirm in writing that
following inspection, they authenticate that the vehicle
is a true reflection of that marque and that it meets the
above criteria. This written confirmation must support an
application to the local office. An age related registration
number will be issued based on the age of the youngest
component used. |
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Location: Branson, MO | This $$$$$ car plus $50K in parts, materials, shipping, etc., plus 10 years of labor/time or more just might be worth it. |
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| wrong doctor sweep and dodge and windsor xmember only plymouth is smaller |
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| wrong hemidennis the newport have the boxes where the rear spring is mounted in front in a diferent possition from the fullsise cars rhen the front frame suports on firewall is totly different on big and small cars |
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| It's encouraging that things like this are still being found, regardless of condition. Gives hope! |
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Location: Vancouver, BC | hemidenis - 2016-12-15 12:38 AM
Doc I'm confused but an example may help..
if someone tell you that found a rust free 58 Firesweep convertible but he also have a rusted out Adventurer and he transfer every Adventurer only parts to the Firesweep including the title and then he tell you this is my perfect rust free 58 Adventurer ragtop....what is that?
Now that would be a clone. Everyone could tell it wasn't an Adventurer. The Firesweep was on a 122" wheelbase and the Adventurer 126". The 4 inch difference was all in the front clip and, to make it very obvious, the 1957-58 Firesweep front fenders were based on the Dodge which had a completely different headlight treatment.
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Location: Parts Unknown | d500dodge59 - 2016-12-16 7:49 AM
wrong doctor sweep and dodge and windsor xmember only plymouth is smaller
==========================================
Allow me to tweak this a little here:
Wrong Doctor, ... Firesweep and Dodge and Windsor xmember is the same. Only Plymouth is smaller.
Am I reading this correctly ?
I am unfamilar with Dodge convertibles, but it has always been my understanding that the Dodge
based convertibles had a different X-member than the big cars - DeSoto and Chrysler (126" WB) I
had assumed it was a smaller X-member, interchangeable with Plymouth's smaller X-member.
Your comment sounds like it confirms this, but maybe not ....
Are there three different X-member types .... 118" WB (Plymouth), 122" WB (Dodge), and 126"
WB (DeSoto/Chrysler) ?
.... or are you saying there are only TWO sizes ... Plymouth, and all others ???
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Location: Parts Unknown | Denis,
Sheetmetal is sheetmetal. If it is the same sheetmetal used on different cars,
it was all made from the same presses and shipped to wherever it was needed
for assembly into whatever end product was needed. But it still was the same
sheetmetal as what they other guy was bolting in to make a different car. If you
took a fender off a NY'er and welded up the trim holes for the NY'er trim, drilled
the right holes for 300 trim, you now have a 300 fender. No different than how
Mother Mopar did it 60 years ago. Both came off the press with no holes and
only when it was decided what trim would go on that particular build were the
holes punched out.
I worked in a restoration shop many years ago. We had a rough body guy come
in for our worst projects. He had built bodies for Pontiac from 1955 to 1965 and
really opened my eyes about how car bodies are built. He pointed out "It's just
bent metal" as he slammed a sledge hammer into a badly misaligned area of crash
damage. "It is OUR JOB to bend it back to where it needs to be". And then he'd
fire up a torch and start hammering and shrinking until he got it right.
The factory did not make Adventurer convertible bodies. Rather, it made a whole
bunch of bent sheetmetal parts that welded together to make a body that could
be welded together with other parts to make a coupe or a convertible. More tweaking
and it could be a 300, a Firedome, a NY'er, an Adventurer, a Fireflite, or even a Fire-
Sweep. Put different wheel tubs, package shelf, and a roof and you have a coupe !
Put Dodge outerskin on it and you have a Dodge ! It's just sheetmetal !
So if Mother Mopar did it in 1958 or I do it in my shop in 2016, what's the difference ?
I see your concern for fakes and frauds, but if you are just building a basic body
shell with all the correct tags and paperwork, this is not an issue. Personally, I'll
take nice old sheetmetal any day over chopping and patching with flat stock that
never was any sort of old Forward Look car. It is cost effective and saves me a TON
of time and trouble to start with metal that is already bent is all the right places !
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Location: Northen Virginia | Ok Doc, getting more and more clear.
I was not trying to be to much technical here "d500dodge59" since i don't know practically nothing about Dodges or DeSotos wheelbase and level of equipment but on my example I should said 61 New Yorker cloned to a 300G which are virtually identical..
With out twisting this thread too much, I'm absolute sure that Doc 1958 Fireflite is a exceptionally rare car, and if I remember correctly Doc never saw another, specially with such rare VIN plate.
Doc, now using your car as an example how would you react to a guy who find just the title and a VIN plate of a 1958 Fireflite for sale on ebay and use that and any other matching hardtop body and ragtop parts to recreate your rare model? Would you considered that another complete 1958 Fireflite finally found? or even better how would you qualify this car?
Edited by hemidenis 2016-12-15 11:33 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | hemidenis - 2016-12-16 8:13 PM
Doc, now using your car as an example how would you react to a guy who find just the title and a VIN plate of a 1958 Fireflite for sale on ebay and use that and any other matching hardtop body and ragtop parts to recreate your rare model? Would you considered that another complete 1958 Fireflite finally found? or even better how would you qualify this car?
=============================================
This is MY take on the ethics of building a car as I THINK you describe.
I base it largely on what I considered the right thing to do when I was
building my Adventurer ......... as I see it, to meticulously build a car
from exact parts to a perfect level of detail to the historical accuracy of
the car being built, SURROUNDING A CORRECT AND AUTHENTIC BUILD
TAG SET AND PAPERWORK, a person would be restoring a car back from
near non-existence, but it would be a restoration nonetheless. The car DID
exist from the factory and is rebuilt as that car, using correct parts and done
to a high level of factory specs.
Any of these factors not being present opens a whole can of worms for
being something less than legit.
I would also add that extensive documentation and photos of the work
done to rebuild the car would be of paramount importance to any future
buyer of the car to verify its history throughout the rebuild. Any early
history of the car would be a serious bonus.
Specifically, I do not consider it any sort of intrusion upon the rarity of
my car for someone to build another around a set of tags and a pile of
parts. I would welcome seeing another being brought back from the dead.
I am not in this car thing for money or some perceived "prestige". I just
love the car/s, and truth be told, I wish things were like the old days when
they weren't so "exotic" that people still drove them. Seeing a car like mine
going down the road is quite a jaw dropping sight. Much moreso (to me)
than someover-restored example at a show or collector's warehouse. Face
it, if ten or even twenty more of these were discovered in some forgotten
place somewhere, they'd still be rare are hen's teeth. Adding one, even if
built from tags and parts is not going to diminish the coolness of all the others.
If Virgil Exner himself arose from the dead and began making brand new 58
Fireflite convertibles, I'd be thrilled !
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Location: Vancouver, BC |
For the X members for convertibles, I suspect the 122" chassis (Dodge, Firesweep, 1957-59 Windsor) used the same X as the 126" chassis (rest of DeSoto / Chrysler). The only difference between the two groups is the sheetmetal ahead of the firewall. The 126" wheelbase models had 4" more up front. So, from the firewall back they are basically the same car.
The Plymouth had a 118" wheelbase and that difference is all in the body - the rear axle is 4" closer to the firewall then the other models. But the front end is pretty much the same as the 122" wheelbase models. After all, Chrysler attached what was basically Dodge front end sheet metal to the Plymouth body and got the Canadian small Dodge and the export Kingsway and Diplomat.
The neatest thing about the 4" body extension for the 126" models is the rear seat stayed basically in the same position. Compare the location of the rear seats in the Plymouth and DeSoto Firesweep and the rear wheels in each car. The Firesweep used the same body as the Fireflite and Firedome, including the roof.
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Location: Northen Virginia | well said it Doc, and looking forward to see your car back in the road. thanks to everybody for the tech specs too. I know a bit of 61 Chrysler and 57-58 Imperial and much less about 59 Imperial. Three books can be written with DeSotos Dodges and Plymouth specs and details, this hobby it is so intricate.... |
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Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom. | Chrycoman - 2016-12-16 9:11 AM
For the X members for convertibles, I suspect the 122" chassis (Dodge, Firesweep, 1957-59 Windsor) used the same X as the 126" chassis (rest of DeSoto / Chrysler). The only difference between the two groups is the sheetmetal ahead of the firewall. The 126" wheelbase models had 4" more up front. So, from the firewall back they are basically the same car.
The Plymouth had a 118" wheelbase and that difference is all in the body - the rear axle is 4" closer to the firewall then the other models. But the front end is pretty much the same as the 122" wheelbase models. After all, Chrysler attached what was basically Dodge front end sheet metal to the Plymouth body and got the Canadian small Dodge and the export Kingsway and Diplomat.
The neatest thing about the 4" body extension for the 126" models is the rear seat stayed basically in the same position. Compare the location of the rear seats in the Plymouth and DeSoto Firesweep and the rear wheels in each car. The Firesweep used the same body as the Fireflite and Firedome, including the roof.
Yes looks like a Dodge and Desoto share the same X member, a 57 Desoto frame is the same as a imperial, a 57 Dodge frame is different to a 58 frame as the 57 uses the shorter Plymouth leaf springs. |
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | I'm going to throw a small wrench into the discussion...I am re-bodying a '57 Chrysler, after determining that I'd have to replace roughly 70% of the sheet metal in the structure. But.......the body I am using is U.S. built, and my car was built in Canada. There is some small differences in the stampings. I won't be hiding this fact after the "build", as I am documenting every step. What's your opinions on this? Since the bodies didn't come off the same lines, in the same country, would it still be considered a restoration, or will it be a further "b*stardization" of our already "hybrid" Canadian FL cars? (Doc, please step in on this one) 
Edited by miquelonbrad 2016-12-16 9:24 AM
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Location: Branson, MO | My vote goes to "restored" as long as it is factory original throughout using the correct materials regardless of which factory built it. Only you will know the difference and that won't matter.
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Location: North of the 49th | Hi
Over the years I've changed my opinion on the "rebody" aspect....I was in the same dilemma with my Fury repair/rebuild or just rebody as I did have a line on a reasonably rust free Belvedere ...my Fury required the usual fenders/floors/rockers/ trunk but at the time I was bent on retaining its orginality so I went ahead and made the floors etc. ... got a lot of satisfaction out of it as I didn't farm a single thing out and the panels I made matched factory BUT if I had it to do over I would rebody....the plain truth is that rust sleds are not really any fun and if the finished product represents the car in question faithfully then as far as I'm concerned no harm no foul. |
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Location: Vancouver, BC | miquelonbrad - 2016-12-16 9:23 AM
I'm going to throw a small wrench into the discussion...I am re-bodying a '57 Chrysler, after determining that I'd have to replace roughly 70% of the sheet metal in the structure. But.......the body I am using is U.S. built, and my car was built in Canada. There is some small differences in the stampings. I won't be hiding this fact after the "build", as I am documenting every step. What's your opinions on this? Since the bodies didn't come off the same lines, in the same country, would it still be considered a restoration, or will it be a further "b*stardization" of our already "hybrid" Canadian FL cars? (Doc, please step in on this one )
The car will be restored. You will be using "official" Mopar or Chryco parts in the process. Can't get more restored than that. The problems you are having are the result of using parts from different contractors (suppliers). These are examples of the troubles Chrysler had getting these cars into production on a rushed schedule. If you checked the American and Canadian parts books you would probably find that the stampings are in both books with the same part numbers.
After all, Fords and Chevrolets came off assembly lines across the U.S.A (14 for Ford and 11 for Chevy in 1957). and none of their restorations are panned because Ford car A, built in Texas, has replacement parts from a Ford built in Massachusetts. Or Oakville.
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Posts: 143
Location: Malmberget, Sweden | A question. Has the 63-64 Chrysler convertible the same front window and conv frame like other Mopar conv. Fr.o.m. 57-61 ore? |
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Location: little rock, AR | I see that my question wasn't relevant to this thread. Does anyone have a complete emblem to re-pop to help others that need this part??? |
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Posts: 5006
| Chrysler went unibody in 61 |
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | miquelonbrad - 2016-12-16 9:23 AM
I'm going to throw a small wrench into the discussion...I am re-bodying a '57 Chrysler, after determining that I'd have to replace roughly 70% of the sheet metal in the structure. But.......the body I am using is U.S. built, and my car was built in Canada. There is some small differences in the stampings. I won't be hiding this fact after the "build", as I am documenting every step. What's your opinions on this? Since the bodies didn't come off the same lines, in the same country, would it still be considered a restoration, or will it be a further "b*stardization" of our already "hybrid" Canadian FL cars? (Doc, please step in on this one) ;)
Let me throw this "thought" in the mix. When you restore your 69 camaro, or 65 mustang or 70 cuda with "quality restoration parts" (direct from china or taiwann) does that make your car a import? Or that brand new ram truck you just bought and your insurance company figures "quality replacement parts" (aftermarket junk) dies that make that new ram truck a import? Its no different wether you use a very nice donor (which i would) or a piece of flat sheet metal from tractor supply. I really think some people really over analize the whole deal. Fix the car drive it |
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | mikes2nd - 2016-12-16 5:18 PM
Chrysler went unibody in 61
60 |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | w.weiland - 2016-12-16 6:55 PM
mikes2nd - 2016-12-16 5:18 PM
Chrysler went unibody in 61
60
Yep
Chrysler moves to Unibody (unit-body construction): 1960
http://www.allpar.com/fix/body/unit-body.html
In 1960, most Chrysler Corporation cars moved from body-on-frame construction to a unit-body design; the rest, other than Imperial (1967), moved in 1961.
The move was unprecedented in scale: no company of Chrysler’s immense size had done this before, certainly not with all of its high-volume cars at once.
The move was also surprisingly uneventful. While simply changing body styling had resulted in a disaster for the 1957 cars, and changes to the Valiant (renamed Volare) brought about a similar disaster in reliability for 1976, the much more dramatic change to Unibody seemed like a quality non-event.
Edited by mstrug 2016-12-16 8:02 PM
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| 60-64 chrysler is the same exsept 62 chry have the shortet topassy like 60-61dodge and piymouth 60-61 is same as 63-64 exsept for the smal wood pease they have mounted
on the rear part of topassy |
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Location: Wild Wonderful | oldwood - 2016-12-16 5:18 PM
I see that my question wasn't relevant to this thread. Does anyone have a complete emblem to re-pop to help others that need this part???
Check out this thread. It says that Gary Goers had repros, and also someone in Sweden. http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=34795&...
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Location: Parts Unknown | miquelonbrad - 2016-12-17 6:23 AM
I'm going to throw a small wrench into the discussion...I am re-bodying a '57 Chrysler, after determining that I'd have to replace roughly 70% of the sheet metal in the structure. But.......the body I am using is U.S. built, and my car was built in Canada. There is some small differences in the stampings. I won't be hiding this fact after the "build", as I am documenting every step. What's your opinions on this? Since the bodies didn't come off the same lines, in the same country, would it still be considered a restoration, or will it be a further "b*stardization" of our already "hybrid" Canadian FL cars? (Doc, please step in on this one) ;)
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Brad,
A large factor of whether a car gets scrutiny for being a fraud is
the value factor. Few would give a darn if I modify my Plaza sedan,
as it is worth nowhere near the cost of restoration, no matter what
I might do to it.
A second generation convertible (some more than others) are
worth a lot of money and will be scrutinized for authenticity when
so much money is involved.
Another factor is historical preservation, cost be dammed. Some
people really care about this, others could not care less. Your Canadian
car is going to have weird little quirks that make a Canadian car different.
Is this important to YOU ? Is it important to YOU as a matter of how
you will enjoy the car .... showing it is AS a Canadian car and taking
pride in showing all interested parties the details that you made sure
were restored into the rebuild process ?
I don't like what car companies did in selling different cars to different
markets. That is just me. But a lot of guys from those export markets
specifically like, and take a lot of nostalgic pride in them. This throws
me out of the running for support of preserving an export special car.
But to be objective, I would ask myself if restoring it faithfully as an
export car would hurt or help any market value/desirability, or if it would
matter at all to future buyers, should you need to sell.
I have a Model T truck. Model T's are generally nothing but bast*rdized
parts piles known as "bitsa's" (bits of this, bits of that) and it is pretty
much accepted as OK within the community that they were accessorized
with aftermarket goodies since day one. I tend to fall into this undefined
area of what is right and what is wrong when it comes to cars that aren't
so dammed valuable. I am less torn and able to just go with "It's your car,
do what you want with it".
Clear as mud, eh ? 
If I did not answer your question, ask it again.
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Location: Vancouver, BC | matt - 2016-12-16 2:54 PM
A question. Has the 63-64 Chrysler convertible the same front window and conv frame like other Mopar conv. Fr.o.m. 57-61 ore?
The 1957-1959 body was different from the 1960-1964 body and no glass interchanges between the two.
The 1963-1964 Chrysler convertible used 1869 627 (clear) and 1954 216 (tint). This windshield was used on all 1960 Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler models.
In 1961 that windshield was used on Plymouth, Dodge and Chrysler convertibles. From 1962 through 1964 it was used on Dodge 880 and Chrysler convertibles. |
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| If you lay a 57-59 vent window assembley on top of a 60-64 c body vent window you will see that the later windshields are angled back about 5 degrees more than the earlier ones. |
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| he did not keep any promisses now he told me he sold to somebody else i was the buyer but he never delivered the car as he promised to do i am not even shure he have the car or if hi found this pictures on the web and now he try to offer me a superbird hemicar and some other musslecars so watch out
Jan Fridberg |
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| scam alert... |
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | d500dodge59 - 2016-12-17 3:36 PM
he did not keep any promisses now he told me he sold to somebody else i was the buyer but he never delivered the car as he promised to do i am not even shure he have the car or if hi found this pictures on the web and now he try to offer me a superbird hemicar and some other musslecars so watch out
Jan Fridberg
Sounds familiar, As he PMed me the price he had been offered, I then asked when he would have the car home and more info/PICs available and he ignored me, but then send me a Christmas Finger Light via PM to pass on. So he had definitely saw my message to him to reply. WTF..
Clive
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | mikes2nd - 2016-12-17 3:45 PM
scam alert...
Yeah he does change his Facebook Cover Picture once a week with different cars,, So does make ya wonder if he is a dreamer and finds the Pictures on Google to make people believe he is some kind of hotshot..
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | So this is not real??? Or at one time it was |
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | w.weiland - 2016-12-17 4:58 PM
So this is not real??? Or at one time it was
The PICs are real, as to how old is the question, The Alleged Buyer who originally posted about it on facebook seems to becoming distant with updates, So whether he did just purchase it OR found the PICs on the web and fabricated the story is the Question..
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | The guy who posted he had just bought it and was pulling it out of the yard shortly was adamant it was a 1957, even after several people posted it was a 1959.. His reply was " When it gets pulled from the dirt or i see the title" i will believe it..
Would of thought as he runs a Classic restoration shop himself he would know what it was, or at least except numerous people telling him the correct year.. The more you look into the details and conduct of the Guy, the less i am believing he actually has it..
Hopefully no one sends him payment without turning up to collect ..
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | Hmmmm. Quite interesting. |
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Location: Wild Wonderful | Well I sent him a couple messages. He only said the car was gone. After that, he avoided all questions about the car.
I asked him about the snow in MI, and he answered "a lot of snow". That is all I got out of him.
But he did say that he had a 59 DeSoto Firedome. (Yeah, right). |
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| yes he sent me pictures of a pink 59 firedome coupe partscar and want serius offer on it he say it had a lot of potential
i am pritty shure he dont have had the 59 dodge think he must have found pictures on web i talk with magnus and he have in his mind that he have seen this pictures before first thougth that came up he say could be "cars in barns" |
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | Look in cars being parted under 59 desoto 2 door under my user name see if its the same car
http://forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=60308&post...
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Location: The Mile High City | I certainly remember when nobody in their right mind would have even considered buying a car in that condition - it could even have been a 300E or an Adventurer - no, thanks. Now this heap o' Dodge is the object of a scam! Wonders never cease.  |
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Location: Wild Wonderful | The seller of this car sent me another picture. Who are our people in Michigan ? How many inches of snow do you have?
Does it match up with this picture?
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| that looks right. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Lancer Mike - 2016-12-18 7:34 PM
I certainly remember when nobody in their right mind would have even considered buying a car in that condition - it could even have been a 300E or an Adventurer - no, thanks. Now this heap o' Dodge is the object of a scam! Wonders never cease. :wince:
==============================
Mikey,
If you follow along on the thread out of Jan Fridberg's shop, you can
get a general understanding of the concept that "It's just sheetmetal".
I remember when all this was incredibly intimidating and so seeming
beyond my grasp. Then I met that guy I told the story of above, and
after a few tips of the bottle and a lot of explanation and demonstration,
I figured I should at least give it a try. It's like anything else ... wanna
learn to play the saxophone, you're gonna have to practice. Wanna get
really good ? Practice a lot ! But after a while, it becomes second nature
and you can look/listen to anything and just make it sing. Same thing
with a hulk like this. Break it down far enough, and it is a simple process
.... like eating an elephant, .... you do it with small bites until it's done.
I started with far less of my Adventurer, and my Fireflite, while prettier
from not being left in the woods for decades, was still probably not much
better, when it came to chopping out savable pieces and building it back
with new metal.
Honestly, I find it hard to believe so many U.S. car guys still cringe at
a car like this. It really isn't as impossible as people lead themselves to
think it is. With a good welder, plasma cutter, work tables, clamps, brakes,
and such, you can make metal do just about anything. All it takes is patience
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| That picture certainly looks like the current condition in South East Michigan . |
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Location: Malung, SWEDEN | "Seller" of the Dodge was obviously a liar who fished for cash.
He is on Facebook under the name Bill Fick, Sterling Heights, MI.
https://www.facebook.com/bill.fick.77
The photos appear to be authentic so the big question now is, who is the real owner? We need the help of all the enthusiasts on this side to make the necessary detective work. Where are the Dodge? Fridberg would like to buy the car and restore it! |
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Location: Connecticut | You can try contacting this guy: Terry Krug Magnatta, since he posted a photo of the car on Fick's facebook page.
Ron |
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Location: Bjorneborg, Finland | The only page that include matching images is this FL forum when I made a "reverse image search" by Google, so the guy who posted pics has not found them from the random pages. |
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Location: Malung, SWEDEN | More about the Dodge here: https://www.facebook.com/AbandonedandNeglectedCarsNORULES/photos/a.1310081689052426.1073741840.693029987424269/1310081729052422/?type=3&theater Thanks Ron! |
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| I dunno looks like those took pics of it. Can't say its fake. I wouldn't buy I sight unseen though. Does it have a title?
Edited by mikes2nd 2016-12-18 1:38 PM
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| no title with the car |
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK |
I saw that Facebook Page earlier today, 14 Images of the dodge on there ... Will post them here so they are saved..
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Location: Malung, SWEDEN | Thanks Clive! Now we need to find the right owner! It would be a nice Christmas gift to bring this beauty home:) |
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | Looks like it was a A/C car too |
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Location: Montreal, Canada | So this was a red and black, 1959 Dodge Custom Royal convertible D500, with Power steering, Power brakes, Power windows, Air Conditioning, rear antennas, etc.!... That's gotta be one of the top desirable FL car for most people! |
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| I think they may be the owners of this car i talk to bill and say when he deliver the car down to Michael Burke in Quincy as we agreed on take the moulding on topheader of so you dont loos the corners at the road and the moulding is taken of on a picture so i belive they have beeing around the car . First he promised me the car for $10K delivered to michael next day someboudy had ofer him $12K and he say he had to go for the money but if i giv him 12 it was mine becaus i was first on the car and that was a promise to stop there. Next morning i got a mail say is michaer ready for me i leav now to get the car 7 hours later he called michael and say now the prise is $16K and ther it stop. i told him i need to be sure that the vin is readebl and not rusted away if so it want be a real car anymore then it just parts from a real D500 and i have not heard back from him.
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Personally I just wonder where the engine is. it's not installed (evidence of the pictures), but does it lay around at the yard? Good luck for the new owner to the a very desirable car. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Location: little rock, AR | So I take it that you are not the buyer??? Keep us abreast if you become the owner. The seller is kinda shady jerking you around. I noticed the drivers side D-500 is missing the "500". I wonder if the passenger side is complete. Iff I could come up with the "500" I could re-pop some for those of us that have a D-500.
Edited by oldwood 2016-12-19 4:44 AM
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| I figured he had opened this up to an "auction" when people started calling and I doubt the engine is anywhere to be found but of course ask.
maybe vin and tag is missing?
probably the last 59 dodge convert out there in the wild... |
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| Ron, how many cars do you have on your 59 Dodge convertible registry? |
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | d500dodge59 - 2016-12-19 6:49 AM
I think they may be the owners of this car i talk to bill and say when he deliver the car down to Michael Burke in Quincy as we agreed on take the moulding on topheader of so you dont loos the corners at the road and the moulding is taken of on a picture so i belive they have beeing around the car . First he promised me the car for $10K delivered to michael next day someboudy had ofer him $12K and he say he had to go for the money but if i giv him 12 it was mine becaus i was first on the car and that was a promise to stop there. Next morning i got a mail say is michaer ready for me i leav now to get the car 7 hours later he called michael and say now the prise is $16K and ther it stop. i told him i need to be sure that the vin is readebl and not rusted away if so it want be a real car anymore then it just parts from a real D500 and i have not heard back from him.
JAN FRIDBERG
Hi Jan,,
I have been speaking on that Facebook page where all the PICs are posted https://www.facebook.com/pg/AbandonedandNeglectedCarsNORULES/photos/...
They have replied a couple times , as i asked if it was still for sale and they replied "we found it and sold it already...last week"
I then asked "Can you tell me who bought it and what country its going too, If not staying in the USA ... thanks"
and got a reply "he did not want to release that info to anyone he said..sorry i promised.."
So i guess we have to wait and see when it surfaces as am sure the news will get out and about..
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Location: little rock, AR | The guy called me this morning and said it was going to Sweden. I asked about the passenger side emblem and he said he would call me back. He also sent 2 pics of a Desoto. |
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| Try to figure outh the name of the byer say that you have tons of nos parts for it to offer the byer so we migth can figure outh who is play nasty in this |
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| now i found out the buyer it is robert bönström from sweden |
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Location: little rock, AR | I know old Robert. I've sold him a few. |
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| does it have a d500 emblem on the other side or holes where the other went? that would help prove a d500...
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | oldwood - 2016-12-19 9:43 PM
I know old Robert. I've sold him a few.
59 Dodge Cars or just parts Dorsey.. ??? Is he a member here ???
Clive
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Location: Connecticut | scottbit - 2016-12-19 10:25 AM Ron, how many cars do you have on your 59 Dodge convertible registry? Scott - I have 39 cars listed. Sixteen Coronets and the rest Custom Royals. I think there are a few more in Sweden that I don't have yet. Ron |
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Location: Northen Virginia | Gosh that car look even worst with better pictures. Everything can be restored but with out engine or title seems an up hill battle, Only Big M can estimate the cost of a restoration like this, he brought back Rusty from the mopar heaven......
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| swedes love those 59 dodges and they are high dollar cars.. they can do it just as easy. |
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| sorry that i was sheeted on the deal i was promised from the owner i would have no problems fix that car i have abouth 90% of all crome for it NOS and 2 nos quarterpanels, hood, one door,+ rustfree flors , frontclip so i would have it all to do a good restoration |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | d500dodge59 - 2016-12-19 7:14 AM sorry that i was sheeted on the deal i was promised from the owner i would have no problems fix that car i have abouth 90% of all crome for it NOS and 2 nos quarterpanels, hood, one door,+ rustfree flors , frontclip so i would have it all to do a good restoration So the future will show up if the new owner could do the full restoration himself or if he'll bring the car to you, Carlo Notaro or some other company who professionally restores MoPars in Sweden. Good luck Jan, Dieter |
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Location: Fleetwood, Pa | All those NOS parts mean nothing if there's no inner structure to weld anything to......LOL |
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Location: Northen Virginia | We saw dozens of cars like theses over the years, we saw them in this condition and we never saw them again...Mr Fridberg we know from past experience that you can fix this car, but $16k for a car like this is too much money no matter how you look at it...this is not and it will never be a $3.5 million 1970 Plymouth Barracuda hemi convertible. |
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| obviously it is worth 16k
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Location: Branson, MO | mikes2nd - 2016-12-20 7:23 AM
obviously it is worth 16k
Not to me - maybe $1600. And that's a MAYBE! Right now I wouldn't touch it with a 59 1/2 foot pole.
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Location: Northen Virginia | you can buy a really nice running Imperial 4dr with hemi 392 for 16k.. Other Dodges and Plymouth too. My fiend purchased an amazing 60 Desoto 4dr hardtop in immaculate original mint condition for lot less than 16k. The car was displayed at Carlisle as a survivor.. |
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| 57-59 Plymouths in this condition seem to bring 4-5k, the value of the stainless steel vert only trim and top frame, every thing else can be fabricated if you are determind enough. The main problem to me with this car is the fact that 59 Detroit build Dodges do not have a stainless steel vin tag in the door jam like most forward looks do. The only vin number that I know of on these cars is on the steel trim tag on the righthand horizontal corner of the cowl ( under a pile of wet leaves on this one with no hood! ) and I have seen them rust away to illegibility on cars that were in much better shape than this. To me no vin number = no ibm card= no high dollar convertible.
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| Ron, how many of these cars do you think are still in the US? |
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Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | scottbit - 2016-12-20 10:52 AM
57-59 Plymouths in this condition seem to bring 4-5k, the value of the stainless steel vert only trim and top frame, every thing else can be fabricated if you are determind enough. The main problem to me with this car is the fact that 59 Detroit build Dodges do not have a stainless steel vin tag in the door jam like most forward looks do. The only vin number that I know of on these cars is on the steel trim tag on the righthand horizontal corner of the cowl ( under a pile of wet leaves on this one with no hood! ) and I have seen them rust away to illegibility on cars that were in much better shape than this. To me no vin number = no ibm card= no high dollar convertible.
I'll agree with you that the vin number is not there in place . Car is not not as integrering, I personalen. Unfortunately, you can take the car as clone convertible. I got an offer to trade away my windsor 59 conv against a Cadillac Biaritz 59 project included a restored 59 flatt top. Biaritz lacked wine plate. But could get a new one, Say the seller. I was suspected it turned out that the car a clone Deville body. (Not that convertible ) with all Eldorado Biaritz moldings and parts.
Edited by Windsor59 2016-12-20 11:55 AM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | I assume if a professional restorer buys that CRL convertible for himself, he can calculate much different than if it would be a customers car. The same is valid when a hobby restorer restores it for himself. Then it has a fictive value only (in case there is absolutely no VIN at this car in question). I assume the acutal purchaser knows if there isVIN plate at (e.g.) the A pillar prior to increase the offer to 16k. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Location: Connecticut | I have seen a photo of the dataplate (with VIN number, as they were combined in '59) for this car, that was forwarded to me by an 'interested party'. The photo came from the Michigan owner. The person that sent me the photo may post it here if he wishes. Scott - I have no idea how many are left in this country, as they change hands from time to time. Ron |
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Location: Parts Unknown | You guys are funny .... what's it worth ?
Obviously, that answer is as varied as the number of people asked,
but clearly is is worth a lot more to those who really chase these cars
than it is to the typical hobbyist, unable (or willing) to do what it takes
to bring it back from the leaf pile.
My car is worth WAY more than I want it to be. High value means
high cost for parts. It means no one drives them anymore. Is there
another 58 Fireflite convertible left in the U.S., or have all of them
gone to Sweden ?
The upside of value is people start making parts that were theretofore
unobtainium. Like the recent thread about making trunk mats again.
If demand gets high enough, people start to think in ways that a low
demand item will not spur them to do. But it all comes at a cost of
vanishing them off the streets and just being seen as cool cars, not
magazine covers and golf course show items. |
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Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom. | hemidenis - 2016-12-20 2:54 PM
you can buy a really nice running Imperial 4dr with hemi 392 for 16k.. Other Dodges and Plymouth too. My fiend purchased an amazing 60 Desoto 4dr hardtop in immaculate original mint condition for lot less than 16k. The car was displayed at Carlisle as a survivor..
Yes but if this car was in the condition as those it would over 100K, what brings the money on a car like this is supply and demand, there are more people looking for one than there are for sale? To Jan this car is worth more to him as most of the work required can be done by himself which saves a considerable amount of money. |
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Location: Bjorneborg, Finland | I don't know how accurate it is, but NADA Guide Classic Car Prices lists a '59 Dodge CRL Conv for $16,5K in Low Retail value + 25% for D500 engine. The Dodge in subject is lower than the low retail, but Low Retail means vehicle would be in mechanically functional condition, needing only minor reconditioning. The exterior paint, trim and interior would show normal wear, needing only minor reconditioning. May also be a deteriorated restoration or a very poor amateur restoration. Mostly usable “as-is”.
This is 4 u Doc, NADA lists value for a '58 Fireflite Conv. to much higher scale, starting from $44,9K in low retail. |
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Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | Whoever has the most realistic price image is Kelley Blue Book. NADA Guide can not keep pricing
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| Hah nada book prices....
These are so rare they are hard to price. |
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Location: little rock, AR | I talked to the Swede today that purchased this car. |
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Location: Northen Virginia | As I said before BigM is the only one I know who can give us an estimate to restore this car. Dodge experts may also know how much a car like this is realistically selling for.
Maybe i'm getting too old or I lost my 20's dream times of restoring cars from a pile of rust, but a car like purchased for any amount it is definitely an equivalent of signing my divorce decree...
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Location: Ontario, Canada | oldwood - 2016-12-20 10:03 PM
I talked to the Swede today that purchased this car.
I suppose this means I will have to send another complete 59 wiring harness to Sweden! I have pretty much run out of the many thousands of 58 and later OEM terminals that I purchased in the late 90s and have been obsolete for years!!
Place your order ASAP and I will see what I can do. Otherwise, you will have to place your order with one of those street rod outfits!!
Greg
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Location: Parts Unknown | Everyone knows how much I love 59 Dodges ....
But if I were a business-minded car guy, I would much rather turn
up a warehouse full of 59 CR ragtops than any other FL car.
While some FL convertibles are in high demand, a seller could never
run out of buyers for 59 Dodge ragtops.
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Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado | oldwood - 2016-12-16 3:18 PM
I see that my question wasn't relevant to this thread. Does anyone have a complete emblem to re-pop to help others that need this part???
Post a fresh thread for your request, you'll get more traction. |
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Location: Brisbane Australia | Doesn't someone already re-pop them?
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Location: Whetstone, Arizona | hemidenis - 2016-12-20 8:18 PM
As I said before BigM is the only one I know who can give us an estimate to restore this car. Dodge experts may also know how much a car like this is realistically selling for.
Maybe i'm getting too old or I lost my 20's dream times of restoring cars from a pile of rust, but a car like purchased for any amount it is definitely an equivalent of signing my divorce decree...
Ask Bo Malefors this question!! |
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| Still for sale $20K
 (1 59.jpg)
Attachments
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1 59.jpg (21KB - 224 downloads)
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Location: Northen Virginia | $12 to 20K? and i don't know you guys but that date plate it is not showing much... |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5006
| let it finish rotting for that. this guy has let his greed get to him.
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Posts: 854
| Where is this car advertised ? |
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Member
Posts: 28
| I'm confused. What is still for sale for $20,000, the red 1959 Custom Royal Lancer convertible?
I have been in contact with the Swedish buyer and he has paid for the car already so if it "still" for sale there's something fishy going on. |
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| On Facebook, in a pm, the seller said he did not receive funds yet, so he said bring your trailer and cash. |
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| 57DODGECONV - 2016-12-26 10:34 AM
Where is this car advertised ?
MOPARS UNLIMITED on Facebook |
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| Moparbo - 2016-12-26 11:18 AM
I'm confused. What is still for sale for $20,000, the red 1959 Custom Royal Lancer convertible?
I have been in contact with the Swedish buyer and he has paid for the car already so if it "still" for sale there's something fishy going on.
Sounds like we need to get to the "bottom" of this! |
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| Interesting.
The banks do take their time when doing an international wire transfer unless you specifically ask them to do it as an Express wire transfer. It usually take 3-6 banking days to get paid to our account in Arizona from ever seas because the our bank sits on the money, if sent express it takes around 36 hours.
I know the Swedish buyer has wired the payment so we'll see how this ends then.
It is also interesting that the seller told me he wanted $10,000 for the Dodge, that was 2 weeks ago. I said I'd pay $10,000 since I have every last piece to restore the car here in Arizona. He never responded except for a week later I received some kind of religious message from him. You'd think he would respond to a potential buyer, especially if he does not get paid for the car and he want to sell it. |
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Location: little rock, AR | I was told by the guy in Sweden that he had it bought. I got that info late last week. Oh Lucy, you gots sum splainin to do!!!!
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Location: Parts Unknown | I remember this game all too well ... stories of forgotten convertibles in
someone's field or barn. LOTS of phone calls, LOTS of road trips, only to
discover the car was an Oldsmobile or a $#! Firesweep or 59 Mopar of any
type. That was when these were actually still out there in some quantity.
Finding them today would only be that much harder.
But it was the guy who jumped at every lead, made every follow up phone
call, got inthe car or on a plane who ultimately got the car he wanted.
Everyone else just sat on the sidelines, complained about possible cheats
and scammers, excessive prices, excessive cost to restore, whatever. Most
are still the guys who never did get the convertible they wanted and are still
the guys complaining that someone doesn't deliver the pristine original to
their door and offer to trade them straight across for a case of beer.
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | oldwood - 2016-12-26 12:59 PM Oh Lucy, you gots sum splainin to do!!!!
LOL. One of my favourite phrases
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5006
| I just wonder if this guy is like "well I didn't get a deposit!, who ever gets here first, gets it"... we all know the type.
He is probably "right some guy in Sweden is sending me money"... but there actually is. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Who is selling this thing? Steve Hobby (notorious for his shenanigans on this site years ago)?
$20,000 for these incomplete ruins of an once desirable car? This guy should be paying somebody to remove it from his property!
If you are making an "investment" in a car, you should at least have to take some minimal care of the investment. A bare hint of effort!
It looks like the current owner bought it for $50 (maybe 50 cents) and towed it to the back 40 and didn't look at it for 30 years.
Now they want a blue chip $$$ return on it. Let the buyer beware!
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| You could easily put all the parts worth saving in the back of a pickup and leave the rest to rot it would things a lot easier than trying to move . |
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Location: little rock, AR | 57DODGECONV is right because that car will probably break in half or worse. There is just not a lot there to work with for someone to pay that price and then the cost of shipping. Good luck Robert. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | You cheapskates are missing the point ...
This is a convertible, arguably the most desirable Forward
Look convertible ever built. A 1959 Dodge, a Custom Royal,
a convertible, a D500, it's red, AND it's loaded !
Go ahead and find another one in ANY condition at ANY price !
What a buyer gets with a car like this is parts, ... all the right
parts for building the "right" car. That is how these Swedes see
it, and that is why they have them all and think we Americans
are a bunch of sniveling whiners.
They get a blueprint of what was the correct way the factory
built a car like this, and they get the provenance, paperwork,
and tags to show it is not some fantasy, made-it-myself fraud.
Oh yeah, and it is a loaded red 1959 Custom Royal D500 convertible !
All it takes is skills many of us do not have, and the wherewithall
to see the project through, but when they are done with it, if will
be worth every penny spent and THEY will be the guy with the
unobtainium car. THAT is something putting a price on is impossible
to do. Play big or go home.
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | Doctor DeSoto - 2016-12-26 8:58 PM
You cheapskates are missing the point ...
This is a convertible, arguably the most desirable Forward
Look convertible ever built. A 1959 Dodge, a Custom Royal,
a convertible, a D500, it's red, AND it's loaded !
Go ahead and find another one in ANY condition at ANY price !
What a buyer gets with a car like this is parts, ... all the right
parts for building the "right" car. That is how these Swedes see
it, and that is why they have them all and think we Americans
are a bunch of sniveling whiners.
They get a blueprint of what was the correct way the factory
built a car like this, and they get the provenance, paperwork,
and tags to show it is not some fantasy, made-it-myself fraud.
Oh yeah, and it is a loaded red 1959 Custom Royal D500 convertible !
All it takes is skills many of us do not have, and the wherewithall
to see the project through, but when they are done with it, if will
be worth every penny spent and THEY will be the guy with the
unobtainium car. THAT is something putting a price on is impossible
to do. Play big or go home.
DITTOO!!!!!!!! I have said it numerous times on here. IF key word is IF I did not find my Desoto vert I would be a contender. Its a mind set its just metal. and with metal you can do anything with it.
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| Actually you are missing the point ,I am far from a cheapskate all I am saying is that if this car was to be restored / Recreated I would rather carefully remove all the salvageable pieces instead of trying to move this car and Damage anything .I wasn't saying it isn't a worthwhile or valuable car if restored .Your really not the only one in the USA that has many hours and efforts chasing cars and parts .They are not all overseas . |
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | 57DODGECONV - 2016-12-26 9:56 PM
Actually you are missing the point ,I am far from a cheapskate all I am saying is that if this car was to be restored / Recreated I would rather carefully remove all the salvageable pieces instead of trying to move this car and Damage anything .I wasn't saying it isn't a worthwhile or valuable car if restored .Your really not the only one in the USA that has many hours and efforts chasing cars and parts .They are not all overseas .
I agree with your point Dave. But for me i would take the whole thing. I would venture to say there are a vast majority of cheapsaktes out there thst want something for nothing. If tgey dont get it they whine uncontrollablly and when someone else buys a said item to resell to move further on ladder they cry more so. Everyone has the ability and means to get what ever they choose. There sqeaky wallets is what holds them back. And when someone grabs that deal. Only to resell to fund thier car then they become bad guy???? Just as we talked in past. Ive bought and resold to fund my cars and still will. Just as numerous others do |
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| I am with you Wayne thru the years I too have bought cars and parts to fund projects ,And will continue to do that .The 59 Dodge would be a very worthwhile project but many people wouldnt have the skill or patience to see this project thru . |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I would submit that if we were to pick ANY given type of Forward Look
convertible, we would likely discover more of any given type exist in in
Sweden or neighboring countries than remain in the U.S. Of the six cars
like mine, four of the six are overseas.
Secondly, if the cheapskate shoe fits, then so be it. I am not pointing
fingers at one person. Just those who cry about this being a $50 piece
of junk. Meanwhile those who truly value such cars end up with them
all.
I can guarantee that if this car were parted out in place, the hulk left
to rot away or scrapped, one would soon discover the mistake they made
in doing so, either because little detail parts were left on the car, or the
ability to go back to the hulk to reference how something was constructed
was lost forever.
I am sure Jan or Wayne will back me up on this ... learning body construction
and metal fabrication skills is beyond the reach of no one. Unlike brain surgery,
if you botch the seam or weld, you just cut it off and start over. Repeat the
process 11,000 times and you have a car ready for chrome and upholstery !
We Americans are spoiled and ungrateful for what we think should be both
cheap and easy. If it is not, we complain like little princesses. It is a mindset.
When I realized there would never be an easy (or cheap) 58 Fireflite convertible
to be found (in MY lifetime), it was just a matter of adjusting the paradigm to
what it was going to take to get one before they were all locked up in collector's
hands and so pricey I could not afford one. I paid WAY TOO MUCH for my rust
bucket (according to everyone in the car scene around me), but you know what ?
This talk sounds all too familiar AND I have the car and everyone else is still
hoping a nice one will drop in their lap ! |
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Expert 5K+
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| IF the car is actually a d500 its worth a ton. Even if it isn't its worth saving at those prices.
My problem is the seller is playing games, taking offers and saying sold and then backing out(if that's actually him on facebook)...
this is all heresay so we will see eventually I guess |
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Veteran
Posts: 245
| I was the firsty to talk to the owner and made a deal he should get his money when he had wheels on it and deliver the car to my frend in michigan .This was a done deal. Then the second swedish buyer whit some caind of thunnelvision seeing on only himself jumt in and start to rice the bids. He start to try to forse me to jump of " his deal" and not destroy for him. So i told him i dont need to do that he handled that good himself and i recomend him to dra back his founds. He told me to go and f**k myself not a chanse so i could jump in and steel"his deal". So i told him that sellers name + google = is wery intrested reading so the last ten days i just leen back here and watch the rise and fall of his moneytransaction..........But the first man with cash and trailer will own this car. JAN |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom. | Like Jan says, I think this is one of those deals where you need to be there to buy the car, turn up with a trailer buy the car and load it there and then, it's almost impossible to buy cars like this dealing from other countries, time consuming and frustrating, I still think a 20K the car a good buy, but overseas buyers that would probably push it upto the 30K mark when shipping costs and taxes are put on top of it? |
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Location: Northen Virginia | Gosh, I would said that our European friends really like theses cars, trying to buy a rust bucket like this one from another part of the world, have them delivered to somewhere else first and then to Sweden.... Just to find out moths later when the car finally arrived that you have years if not decades of work ahead of you.. You need more than one human life time to deal with cars like these.
Doc, 20k? no engine few part salvageable? Even Big M with a whole junkyard to his disposal and vast knowledge took him almost 20 years to complete the task...How much this 59 would take?
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Williams California | The seller of this car seems like a slimy individual, I really hope he's not playing games with the fellow that has wired the money. Bad enough that he keeps jacking the price up after a deal was made.
---John |
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Location: Connecticut | Good luck with the 'cash and trailer' thing. The car is likely frozen into the ground and won't be moveable until March or April. Agree with Big M. I would not deal with this slimeball seller even if it was the last one on earth. Ron |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1112
Location: Wild Wonderful | If I was out of the country, and I had a friend in the USA, I would have told him to go to the bank or use a credit
card and get the money any way possible, and I would pay any fees, JUST GO GET THE CAR NOW.
(Take some heaters with you, or rent some). Just get that car out of there.
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Location: Northern sweden above the arctic circle!! | Yes,just what i thought.
Hope the guy that bought the car and wired money have some good Connections over there.
Edited by carmikael 2016-12-27 3:40 PM
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Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom. | ronbo97 - 2016-12-27 6:05 PM
Good luck with the 'cash and trailer' thing. The car is likely frozen into the ground and won't be moveable until March or April. Agree with Big M. I would not deal with this slimeball seller even if it was the last one on earth. Ron
At one time you might have thought differently, just thinking back to a snow filled 59 Dodge convertible being dragged onto a flatbed?
In this modern day society if you don't get up and do it yourself , no one's going to help you unless you have lots of cash, the way things are going if you want to see a 50's convertible you will be taking a trip to Scandinavia? Think they have the most 59 eldorado convertibles as well? |
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Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom. | Ron what happened to the Finland Gazette, there was some good restoration pictures etc on there of you're convertible? |
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Location: Parts Unknown | ronbo97 - 2016-12-28 10:05 AM
Good luck with the 'cash and trailer' thing. The car is likely frozen into the
ground and won't be moveable until March or April. Agree with Big M. I would
not deal with this slimeball seller even if it was the last one on earth.
Ron
=============================
I was this way before I did my time with the USMC, but they
only reinforced and refined the tactics
They use terms like "overwhelming force" and "hit them hard,
hurt them fast, get it over with".
If a person really wants something, be that a car, a house, any
object of limited supply, you "train" for the fight, and when the
door opens, you do exactly as the Marines suggest.
Not only *would* I do this, I DID do this when it came to the
cars I own ... I verify it is there, and then I am on their front
porch with cash in hand and trailer/equipment in the driveway
to get that thing off the property before anything can go sideways.
These opportunities pop up very infrequently and any serious
buyer has to be locked and loaded and ready to pull the trigger.
As the saying goes, "money talks, bullsh!t walks".
If extricating that car from the earth means a 30K front loader
and a half ton of C4, so be it. Hit the problem with overwhelming
force and be heading back to camp before anything can go wrong.
Either that, or we are just another whiner looky-loo, more interested
in complaining about how the world doesn't come to them on a silver
platter. Meanwhile the hit-'em'-hard team is in there with heavy
equipment loading the car out, bill of sale in hand. That is life on
the Serengeti Plain, eat or be eaten.
If showing up with cash and equipment doesn't work, nothing will.
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Location: Parts Unknown | hemidenis - 2016-12-28 7:53 AM
Gosh, I would said that our European friends really like theses cars, trying to buy a rust bucket like this one from another part of the world, have them delivered to somewhere else first and then to Sweden.... Just to find out moths later when the car finally arrived that you have years if not decades of work ahead of you.. You need more than one human life time to deal with cars like these.
Doc, 20k? no engine few part salvageable? Even Big M with a whole junkyard to his disposal and vast knowledge took him almost 20 years to complete the task...How much this 59 would take?
===========================================
It's all in how bad a person wants something. Any rusty car is going
to take X amount of hours. Work on it 8 hours a day or work on it every
3rd weekend, the hours can take 1 year or 20.
Another factor of "How badly do you want it?" is what this car is. Kinda
of ironic I'd be making these comments about my most despised Forward
Look car, but there really is no more hotly sought after Forward Look car
that this one, as built. It has EVERYTHING going for it that more people
want that any other finned Mopar .... it's just a fact ! Where would a person
who wants one of these ever find another ? And at what price, either up
front or years spent restoring it ?
A decent 2 door sedan or hardtop would make 80% of the problem go
away. All the critical parts look to be there. An engine is the easiest part
to replace.
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Expert
Posts: 4654
| When the going gets tough, the tough get going. I would also make it a point to dig out beside and underneath as much as possible to retrieve it INTACT. I'm sure guys like Magnus and Bo, who could work on it full time, would get it done in a reasonable amount of time. Take lots of photos documenting all aspects. After taking it apart,save everything possible, and rebuild the car with original rust free panels. Sure, it depends how much money you have, or want to spend, but if you can't find another one to purchase, then go for it. Especially a 59 D500 conv with pw and ac. If the final value is $150-200K, deduct the restoration cost ( 100-125), and you are in range. I once found a 69 Hemi GTX 4 speed conv ( 1 of 5 built) in a WV junkyard. I had the kid who found it hire a bulldozer and ramp truck. They had to move refrigerators, 54 Ford pickups, and anything else in the way, get the car out, then put everything back per order of the yard owner. Job done! |
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Location: The Mile High City | Doc, you have a built in contradiction up there. If this is the ultimate desirable car as built, that is fine. The engine being the easiest thing to replace seems like the contradiction. If the value of this car is written in the data plate and the VIN, then it seems like someone who values those details would also value a numbers matching drive train. This car doesn't have it (as far as I know).
Dave, that numbers-matching problem might throw a big wrench into the final value estimates, I'd guess. That could make this a much more risky proposition - if the buyer was in it to make money.
Luckily, I don't have to worry about it. Somebody with deeper pockets gets to make that call. Does this one have factory AC? The under dash unit looks aftermarket to me.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2016-12-28 1:19 PM
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| Lancer Mike - 2016-12-28 1:05 PM
Dave, that numbers-matching problem might throw a big wrench into the final value estimates, I'd guess. That could make this a much more risky proposition - if the buyer was in it to make money.
That's true Mike, thus the variation of final values. With muscle cars, I think the #s matching drivetrain is more important to a lot of buyers, whereas the 1950's car buyers seem to put less value on that, especially if it is a very rare and desirable vehicle. Of course there are exceptions. With Corvettes the #s are more important, and a lot of manufacturers did not stamp in the VIN #s on the block until a certain year. On a rare 1950's Ford, for example, I would want the original data plate for an "E" or "F" code, or a '56 Crown Victoria glass top. In this case, the data plate is very important. As far as frame #s, the main frame is most likely too rotted to use anyways, except for the X member.
Edited by hemidave 2016-12-28 3:08 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | In 1959, all B-blocks were "corporate". A 383 would be stamped M-83 or
M-383, followed by a sequence number for production. There was no "numbers
matching" business. Finding roughly corresponding casting number-dated
pieces could produce a correctly coded engine for a car like this. It is no
problem to find this stuff with a little patience networking.
If anyone has faced what I did in building my Adventurer - missing all convertible
parts except frame and sheetmetal, PW, PS, Adventurer trim, drivetrain, ...
putting together a simple 59 B-block 383 w/4bbl (or even dual quads) is not
that daunting.
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Location: Parts Unknown | What interests me about this car, and any exceptional car like this, is:
How did it come to be a flower pot in the back hedge row ?
There has always got to be an interesting story behind these situations. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1141
Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom. | I think by numbers matching , is engine for that car, on my 58 it has a L-350 block with a 361 casting number and the engine number is stamped in 2 places on the frame? So this would need a similar vintage 383, with casting number either 1851729 or 2568130 looks to be ok for 59 use, old number could be either soldered and restamped or left if no number shows on IBM card?
Edited by springsweptwing 2016-12-28 10:02 PM
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Location: Ontario, Canada | springsweptwing - 2016-12-28 10:00 PM
I think by numbers matching , is engine for that car, on my 58 it has a L-350 block with a 361 casting number and the engine number is stamped in 2 places on the frame? So this would need a similar vintage 383, with casting number either 1851729 or 2568130 looks to be ok for 59 use, old number could be either soldered and restamped or left if no number shows on IBM card?
Paul, the numbers that you showed for your car, in my opinion, are what will add considerable value to your Regal when finished. Knowing your amazing attention to detail, the numbers will just be a great stepping stone!!
As pointed out here the best news is that this is just a Dodge that shares just about all other numbered parts with many, many other Dodges.
The potential problem here of course is the buyer must get the VIN/body plate, title (or whatever you need to get one in MI) and bill of sale. Sounds like this might be tough!!
Greg
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Location: The Mile High City | springsweptwing - 2016-12-28 8:00 PM
I think by numbers matching , is engine for that car, on my 58 it has a L-350 block with a 361 casting number and the engine number is stamped in 2 places on the frame? So this would need a similar vintage 383, with casting number either 1851729 or 2568130 looks to be ok for 59 use, old number could be either soldered and restamped or left if no number shows on IBM card?
For 1958, the engine number shows on the punch card and decode from Chrysler Historical. I don't know about 1959, but if you get a copy of the punch card for a 1958 Dodge, you can compare it to the engine stamping to see if that is the engine that came with the car or not. |
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Location: Malung, SWEDEN | Doctor DeSoto - 2016-12-29 3:01 AM
What interests me about this car, and any exceptional car like this, is:
How did it come to be a flower pot in the back hedge row ?
There has always got to be an interesting story behind these situations.
Every crime scene hides a story. Here is enough material for a movie or a novel.
To be continued next year ...  |
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | What's up with this car |
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Posts: 1530
Location: ZH, Switzerland | IMHO this car could pop up at this forum when it's at a customer or under process at a professional restorer (customer most probably the biggest secret). Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2017-01-18 7:31 AM
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Posts: 66
Location: Washington,DC | any update with this car. |
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Posts: 1728
Location: Fleetwood, Pa | So, whatever became of this rot bucket? |
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Member
Posts: 28
| I spoke to the buyer last week and the Dodge has been picked up and is on the way to Sweden.
Bo. |
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Posts: 1492
Location: Lordstown, Ohio | Well 3 years have past. what/where is status of this ride |
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