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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | since speed-o-motive screwed me by sending the wrong pistons . the new ones were delivered to the builder . the thing i totally forgot about was with new pistons , the weight
most assuredly changes . so in return the rotating assembly has to be re-balanced . now to that mistake will have to be another 225$ for the re-balance . i'm sure hopin the light
at the tunnels end would start flickerin -----------------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: So. Cal | Ouch. That hurts. Good luck. |
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Location: atlanta | Damm Chuck, thought You would be further along, been an uphll climb ain't it ?, but think about all the expressions on those faces when they can't ID the motor much lees how they got outrun ! what pistons did Ya end up with and what's the bob weight?
Edited by fenix 2013-11-14 9:39 PM
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | it's more like a kick in the head at every turn roger . i really don't know the final specs . all that and pistons went directly to the builder and me being me i really don't bother him unless it's a
have to . i just let it take it's course . the pistons are auto tech , the street/strip version --------------------------------------------------------------------later
RaceTec Pistons & AutoTec Pistons
15681 Computer Lane
Huntington Beach, CA 92649
Phone: 714.903.4362
Fax: 714.903.4318
Email: info@racetecpistons.com
real pleasant people to deal with !!!!!!!!!! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 982
Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | ....
There's probably no real way out of it if the reciprocating assembly was already balanced for the wrong pistons so yep, like you said, you've just got to move on I guess. Hit Speed-O-whateveritive up for some store credit for their mistake if that's the case,no harm asking..........
I'm feeling your pain..... been there... done that......
.....
..
Edited by VAN HELSING 2013-11-15 2:08 AM
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | when i bought from them , they had been in business for over 50 yrs. . not long afterwards i started reading bad things about them and bam they were gone ----------------------------------------later |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 982
Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | .....
Yep, VERY similar story to mine, I got dudded with a very well known and reputable company here building sheds for over 40 years, the father started the company, passed away, son inherited it, sold to a Malaysian company who drained the company of everything and taking the money back to Malaysia and were still taking deposits on sheds whilst trading insolvent.
This I know AFTER paying my money in full for my shed with no knowledge of the company going down the drain prior to my payment.
I got part of a shed, cost me thousands extra I had to pay for myself to finish it.
......
Edited by VAN HELSING 2013-11-15 7:51 AM
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Expert
Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta | What did they send ya? LA pistons? |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | no, they were cut as poly but they were way too big -----------------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: NE Ohio | What else you doing to that 318? |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | name it , it's gettin done . bored , stroked , printed , 470 schneider cam , performance rocker assembly , solid lifters , headers , plug & play ignition , and trip rochester 2g's . 833 4
speed . 3.23 gears when i get to em , ported stock heads with hard seats , 10:1 CR----------------------------------------------------------------later |
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Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta | Solid lifters? that's interesting, didn't wanna go hydraulic? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | to a ton of old mopars solids were oem as was my 60 and depending to who you talk to solids were the choice of whole era of hot rodders . solids just have a more positive action than
hydraulic . i've driven a lot of older cars at high rpm and have had the lifters just stop functioning "float" . the late 50"s chevrolet v-8 is a real good example . ever ask an old hot-rodder
what he was running . most often the second word out of his mouth was "solids"----------------------------------------------------later |
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Expert
Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta | Yep, well it is a stroker and I know Your gonna flog it, so it does make sense, I just hate the mess and pullin' the valve covers, solids and a quiet exhaust system is a great sound. The can You have, what are the specs, was it a long wait and was it ground on a new blank,. did the lifters come with it and what springs You running? I hear the 340 hi-po springs will work, did they recommend any particular spring? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | when i bought all the cam related parts , i got in touch with gary pavlovich in cal. , the 318 guru . he offered a re-grind but i went with new . the springs are double but
as far as what varieties of fitment i really don't know , most likely up to 500 lift . they are still packed away , so getting a number to chase i'd have to un-pack---------------------------------later
ps. flog it hell ! i'm going to beat it to death ! i be jammin them gears ! |
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Location: atlanta | Like my friend used to say "beat the brakes off it" |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | another 316$ . so far nothin about the stroker crank has been right . but it's like he said . you're building a 5,000$
motor so why would you want to use junk bearings to begin with . he's more pissed at speed-o-motive than i am . he
also had to deck the block , i guess it was way out of being true . in places it was high by .027 , others , low . now
it's in good shape . oh , the 316 was for all new hardened bearings from summit ----------------------------------------later |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | so far i'm into the builder alone for @ 2300$ , so i sent him an email asking if final assembly was going to cost me even more . i'm under the impression his stated cost included final assembly but the
thought has been bugging me all night . yesterday he sent another email stating 81$ for mallory ------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | grand total for all machining including assembly plussssssss the new pistons , rings , hard bearings , etc ,,,,,,, @3300$ . an amount i wasn't really prepared for . i pretty much had to start
from scratch with the parts . so the original parts was @ 2200$ including the crank i used but only after the journal in front of flywheel hub was cut 100$ , along with all the wrong size journals , which
was corrected during the build . it'll be done by saturday but i won't be able to pick it up till the end of next week . the builder said to me , you'll like what you're getting . kinda like the old papan's
restraurant commercial from pittsburgh , it's in there and you gonna like it -----------------------------------------------------------later |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 982
Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | ...
Not sure if I'm reading it right Chuck but is that $3300 on top of your $2300 ...... making $5500 ??
It sucks that got got stung by a supposedly professional company previously but I guess there's nothing you can do now ' eh .........
I'm really looking forward to seeing how your stroker performs, sounds like it' gonna be a good ' un.
You've probably mentioned it before but.......... what capacity will it end up being after the re-bore and stroke ??
......
.. |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | nope , 1000 on top of the 2300 , to replace the bad parts i was sent from speedomotive and thats not counting the reballance ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 390ci. -------------------------------------------later |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | nope , 1000 on top of the 2300 , to replace the bad junk parts i was sent from speedomotive and thats not counting the re-balance ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 390ci. -------------------------------------------later |
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Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta | Sure Your not buildin' a boat, I hear they suck money outta ya just as fast. :-)
Gonna be an awesome runner, about 400 Hp and enough torgue to pull a house over, gonna have any ruppity runp? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 792
Location: Buena Park, CA | following your build with great anticipation. i assume you are going to run the 3x2 Rochester set-up that you were working on? i have been planning on putting together almost the exact same combination for my 56' Plymouth.
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | the cam idle should be noticeable but not lumpy ......... yes the trip rochesters are going on , about the only thing i can do with them considering how much i have in them . i'll do the initial
start up with a single 2 bbl , tune , then remove that one , same for the next 2 . the carb tuning will be done by vacuum . or i may just install a 4 bbl setup i know is ok , then switch over to the trips
after initial start up . i don't want to have too many variables on first start up . it will end up with the trips before it hits the street -------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | its done . at least as far as i wanted him to go . the painting , i'll do the timing cover , i had him blast it smooth "natural look" , lifters i'll install , ballancer , i'll do . i'll be pickin it up
next thurs. 12th. . then the real fun will begin ---------------------------------------------------------later
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 get-attachment (2) (450x338).jpg (165KB - 180 downloads)
get-attachment (3) (450x338).jpg (150KB - 172 downloads)
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | well , its home but still need parts . i got melling push rods comin but wouldn't you know it , i got one of the bas***d pre-62 318's . back when i ordered most of the parts , almost 5 yrs ago , i was sent
a post 61 HV , melling #M72HV , and again i trusted it being correct , never checked it . actually i totally forgot that a post 61 oil pump won't fit . now i'm tryin to hustle to find a correct pre-62 , new , oil
pump . the real pisser is the pre 62 is 3-4 times the cost of the la interchangeable unit . i've just seen the post 61 is going for as low as 45$ . the pre 62 is 175$ . there aint one dam thing that has got right
with this build . the builder said maybe i need to take the blame by not checking every piece but i told him that if i'm guilty of anything , i'm guilty of trusting too many people . i've thought of rebuilding
an old pump , kit @ 50$ , but i really don't want to put a rebuilt unit in it . i guess my only option is to by a new one for 175$ . even its only going to be a standard volume . i still have one request out to
someone about a correct pump but probably won't get an answer till tonight . the builder seems to be real proud of HIS work but as this thing progresses it might just melt to the ground ------------------later
Edited by 60 dart 2013-12-13 1:52 PM
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Expert
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Location: N.W. Fla. | 60 dart - 2013-12-13 12:46 PM
well , its home but still need parts . i got melling push rods comin but wouldn't you know it , i got one of the bas***d pre-62 318's . back when i ordered most of the parts , almost 5 yrs ago , i was sent
a post 61 HV , melling #M72HV , and again i trusted it being correct , never checked it . actually i totally forgot that a post 61 oil pump won't fit . now i'm tryin to hustle to find a correct pre-62 , new , oil
pump . the real pisser is the pre 62 is 3-4 times the cost of the la interchangeable unit . i've just seen the post 61 is going for as low as 45$ . the pre 62 is 175$ . there aint one dam thing that has got right
with this build . the builder said maybe i need to take the blame by not checking every piece but i told him that if i'm guilty of anything , i'm guilty of trusting too many people . i've thought of rebuilding
an old pump , kit @ 50$ , but i really don't want to put a rebuilt unit in it . i guess my only option is to by a new one for 175$ . even its only going to be a standard volume . i still have one request out to
someone about a correct pump but probably won't get an answer till tonight . the builder seems to be real proud of HIS work but as this thing progresses it might just melt to the ground ------------------later What is the correct Melling pump #? On the early Hemis the 392 oil pump is slightly different than the 331/354 pumps. Turns out the shaft & 1 bolts is the same & the other hole in the main cap can be filled with threaded rod & redrilled. Check & see if something simular might work on your M-72 |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | I agree with George. The later poly 318 pump is exactly the same as a high volume LA pump. So just take your old pump and compare it to an LA pump and see what the difference is. I would bet that they aren't too different from each other. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | ok , picture this , the bolts on the post 61 are @ 11 & 5 . the pre 62 are @ 1 & 7 . please don't make me post a photo .
"The later poly 318 pump is exactly the same as a high volume LA pump" . aint that what i said ? no if's and's or buts LA oil pumps won't fit a pre 62 A poly motor --------------------------------------later |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | ok , here's a photo --------------------------------------------------------------later
 (oil pumps 001 (500x375).jpg)
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oil pumps 001 (500x375).jpg (149KB - 152 downloads)
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Location: N.W. Fla. | 60 dart - 2013-12-13 11:26 PM
ok , here's a photo --------------------------------------------------------------later What does the cap look like? Is there enough room/area to drill both holes? Cap probably doesn't care where the holes are as long as there's enough metal.
Edited by Mopar1 2013-12-14 8:19 AM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | if i remember , when i put the motor on the stand for completion i'll take a photo of the cap . a while back i read where someone made an adapter but as it goes with my brain , don't remember . just a
few days ago i was tellin my wife , that if i had to go back to work (which i can't) there's no way , considering the way my brain functions to day versus 5 yrs ago . i think i have a new correct "melling M51"
coming with a trade + cash with no loss in cash . right now i have building repair materials layin on the garage floor that makes pretty much doin anything a chore , like putting the motor on the stand . it'll
get done but i'm way behind of where i should be ----------------------------------------------later |
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Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta | Chuck, it sounds like one of Your C***y neighbors has put a hex on Ya. At least You can see the light in the end of the tunnel, I admire Your inginuity and perseverance. |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | thanks buddy . puttin a hex on me is about the only way they'd get to me . i don't take a backseat to none of em and they know it . this build has been nothing but terrible . no one should have the bad
happenings i've had but there's a ton that can still happen . ----------------------------------------------------------later |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | here's where i stand now ,,,, the valve springs i bought just after the stroker kit and the ones that came with the new rocker assembly , to me are too big of a dia. for the poly retainers and LA retainers . so
i ordered as set of matching springs "480 max lift" and retainers , comp cams brand . well now i get an email from the distributor that they are running behind in shipments and they will try to get them out in
the next few days or if i really need them fast they would try to help speed the process up . well hell yes i need em now . thats why i picked the distributor i did because they use expedited shipping . i also replaced
the sealed power push rods with melling . the melling will work much better than the sealed power at 6 grand or so . from what gary pav. was telling me the melling failed at @ 8 grand in one of their test motors ,
which i'll be going no where near 8 grand but maybe a rev limiter might be in order ------------------------------------------------------------later |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 982
Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | 60 dart - 2013-12-14 5:46 AM
the builder said maybe i need to take the blame by not checking every piece but i told him that if i'm guilty of anything , i'm guilty of trusting too many people .
. ------------------later
...
..
Yep, I've been found guilty in trusting too many people and had my fingers burn't because of it ,you're not Robinson Cruso there on that one and I'm sure most here will have a similar story .... good thing is you're shaking off the dust and getting straight back into it... that is to be admired........
Big call for your builder to hit the sole responsibility blame key on you entirely for your misfortune ??????
I'll bet his glass house has had some stone chips in it !!!!!
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | thanks van , i'm into this so deep there aint nowhere but forward . you'd have to meet the builder is person . he's truly a salt of the earth type . i like him because he's a no nonsense guy . -------------------------------later
Edited by 60 dart 2013-12-27 3:16 PM
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Location: NE Ohio | Chuck, it's only $$$$...been there done that...not that I wanted too however hobbies can be expensive |
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Posts: 3036
Location: N.W. Fla. | 60 dart - 2013-12-27 12:40 AM
here's where i stand now ,,,, the valve springs i bought just after the stroker kit and the ones that came with the new rocker assembly , to me are too big of a dia. for the poly retainers and LA retainers . so
i ordered as set of matching springs "480 max lift" and retainers , comp cams brand . Are these springs for the Poly or some that fit the description? I use Comp Cam springs in my Hemis, have no idea what they're supposed to go in but they fit the bill. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | they aren't specific to the poly . they are heavier with inner dampers . stock poly springs are @ 1.41 dia. . the comp cam ones are @ 1.49 dia . as are the melling ones i don't want to use but
i wasn't sure what size of the correct matching retainers they take . "melling charts sucks" ......... so i bought a matched set of comp cam---------------------------------------later
ps. the melling springs i got from gary pavlovich for my poly but after i assembled one head , i didn't like the fit and i told gary so . it's been
a week since and i think i may have pissed him off but that was far from my intentions . i like gary , he's a great guy but so far i had
to switch out the oil pump , which was wrong , switched from sealed power push rods to melling , switched out the valve springs to a matched
set and one of the new rocker assemblies had a missing adjustment screw and lock down nut . never once did i blame gary for anything . at
this point i just want things to move along and keep gary as a friend !!!!!!!!!!!
Edited by 60 dart 2013-12-28 12:41 AM
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Location: N.W. Fla. | 60 dart - 2013-12-27 11:39 PM
they aren't specific to the poly . they are heavier with inner dampers . stock poly springs are @ 1.41 dia. . the comp cam ones are @ 1.49 dia . as are the melling ones i don't want to use but
1.49 instead of 1.41, must have been plenty of room on the OEM ones! |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | ya , all kinds of room but to get a stiffer spring going to the 1.49 is about the only choice and i hope wiser . the advertised spring rate of the 1.49 is supposed to be
353 lbs. but versus the oem springs i don't know . i haven't seen real numbers for those springs but are softer-----------------------------------later |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | with the photo , you can better understand where i'm commin from . the retainer is stock but still a hair bigger than the LA
and is centered on the spring in photo--------------------------------------------------------later
Edited by 60 dart 2013-12-28 6:26 PM
 (valve springs 002 (600x450).jpg)
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valve springs 002 (600x450).jpg (223KB - 161 downloads)
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | finally the springs and retainers are on the road . i guess a threat of a paypal claim did the job --------------------------------------------------later |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | while changing the springs and retainers on one of heads that have o-miles on it , one of the valves didn't have a seal . now mind you i paid i think @ 750$ to
have them built a few yrs ago ,,,,, but the guy that did em aint among the living anymore and the shop closed ------------------------------------------------later |
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Expert
Posts: 3036
Location: N.W. Fla. | 60 dart - 2014-01-04 11:45 PM
while changing the springs and retainers on one of heads that have o-miles on it , one of the valves didn't have a seal . now mind you i paid i think @ 750$ to
have them built a few yrs ago ,,,,, but the guy that did em aint among the living anymore and the shop closed ------------------------------------------------later Turns out having the other problems solved this problem while it was easy to solve. |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i don't know if it's good luck or bad luck -----------------------------------------------------------later |
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Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | the stroker is all together , painted , valves set , oem v-covers painted . flywheel , clutch , pressure plate , bell on . trans temp attached as i still need to attach the fork pivot , fork and
throwout bearing .
with not using pivots for the bell to align , which i couldn't . it went together in a snap . ya , right . it took a blizzard of snaps to get it ligned up and way more time
than i thought it would . way , way , way more time . the first problem was how to attach the dial gage considering the clutch and pressure plate have to be together , then the bell over
them then the dial gage .... so i made a washer out of 20G tin with a bolt in the center , welded , so i could put it inside of the pressure plate fingers . outside a piece of 1/4 steel big
enough to fit over the fingers with a hole in the center to allow for the bolt of the tin piece . the 1/4 wasn't enough to fit the dial base so i added 1/4 pieces to 2 side . that worked like
a charm . the hold back was every time i tightened the bell down , the readings would change . in the end as it always does it fell together . it's settin at .002 - .003 all the way around .
after all that i just had to put the trans to it after a little coxing it went together .
since i got the motor back from the builder , i haven't been idle for too much time . waited on some small parts , watched paint dry . probably tomorrow afternoon i'll be firing up red to melt
the snow off , then into the garage to start the old motor removal including removing the grill and radiator and such . maybe tomorrow i'll put up some photos the motor ------------------------later |
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Expert
Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta | Are You gonna run it/break it in on a stand or in the car, sure would like some pics or a video would be even better, light at the end of the tunnel is almost on ya now, good luck! |
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Posts: 792
Location: Buena Park, CA | Cheering you on Chuck! |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | nothin real fancy . maybe shoulda left the bell cast iron grey like the trans ---------------------------------------------------------later
 (new motor photos 002 (500x375).jpg)
 (new motor photos 003 (500x375).jpg)
 (new motor photos 005 (500x375).jpg)
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new motor photos 002 (500x375).jpg (141KB - 256 downloads)
new motor photos 003 (500x375).jpg (137KB - 1501 downloads)
new motor photos 005 (500x375).jpg (148KB - 259 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Buena Park, CA | Looks good Chuck! |
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Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta | Really gonna confuse folks with those valve covers, really nice, envy ya. |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | thanks guys , the v-covers have a point , and you nailed it ---------------------------------------------------later |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9722
Location: So. Cal | Those painted covers look so purty that they put your finned ones to shame! Nice job. Looks like fun times are ahead. |
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Expert
Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta | Okay Chuck, what's going on, update requst please. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | waitin for photos of z-bar + length . photos on where the pivot ball sits on the bell . yesterday i had to fit up the starter to the block saver/bell , no big problem there . i went out yesterday
afternoon to start er up . that was a no go . first thing i did was flood the darn thing and only being 12* , not started for @ 2 weeks . i need photos from all angles . then to top it all off looking
for a longer fork couldn't happen . our internet has been off for most of 2 days , intermittent . i need photos !----------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: NE Ohio | The whole package looks awesome |
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Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta | would the photo's of my car help? the motor trans is out so no problem, jus let me know. |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | thanks DIF ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Fonix the frame side is pretty much a bolt up with the oem bracket stud . photos of the bell on the block ( ball stud location ) and length of the z-bar with photo . i'm thinkin i may need to
shorten the z-bar . my real main concern is maybe having to fab longer arms for the z-bar along with shortening . neither will present a huge problem but goin in and knowing kinda helps the brain
functioning straight ahead instead of thinkin of new cuss words when i get to the point of the unknown . i really don't like surprises when there's a way around em .
after shootin red up with heavy duty valvoline starting fluid she had a cold natured fire up . had to re-start er 4 times to keep er runnin . for me at least , 318's have always been cold natured -------------------later
Edited by 60 dart 2014-01-30 6:22 PM
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Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta | I try to get some pics tomorrow. How's she sound? |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | sound ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, it aint in yet . i aint no miracle worker ---------------------------------------------------------later ,, thanks |
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Expert
Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta | Chuck, here's some pics, I'll do the Z bar tomorrow, do ya need the fork out for pics? if theres a particular shot of something let me know, are the Z bar stud pics what your looking for?
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | you're a good man roger . that was a ton of help , especially the next to the last one . found another problem i had to knock in the head . a 10 7/8" clutch fork is too short . so i went net lookin . i
found 3 sites with 12 1/2" forks , which i need . ordered one , next day couldn't fill my order . next site , ordered one , same thing . it's a discontinued part , #P4529451 . ok , backup plan . a guy on
ebay has one , bought it . a little on the high side @ 78$ used . i can't be choosy at this point . the only thing is i lost another 2 days .
i thought maybe refab one of the 2 short ones i have , nope . i took a file to one to test hardness . file wouldn't even knick it . so no filey , no weldey .
i'll be waitin watchin paint dry again , while waitin for the motor side pivot ball to get here also . i know i have 2-3 somewhere along with fork clips , i just don't know where they are . i've looked several
times but ya know how that surely turned out .
i can still use the length and photo of the z-bar . i'm thinkin it might just fit as is for length and fingers . if not i have a game plan for that to , refab ! i really need this motor and trans off to the side of the
garage to pull red in and start removing parts . i've got i think everything needed after this fiasco -----------------------------------------later |
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Location: atlanta | I'll get the Z bar pics tomorrow. |
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Location: atlanta | Sorry Chuck, couldn't get the pics today, will do tomorrow, my sister and her husband are multi-millionaires, they were supposed to fly to NY for the superbowl as guests of the govenor's of NU and NJ, their lear jet wouldn't crank and i had to go to the airport and jump'um off, turned out the just ad a few fowled plugs in the engines and a hung float! |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | its tuff to have a hung float -------------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: atlanta | Chuck, here's the pics and some measurements for Ya, if ya need more or different pics, let me know.
The overall length of the main tube is 10" overall, from the inside tang for the clutch pedal rod to the outside of the main tube is 8 1/2", the length of the tang on the main tube for the adjusting rod going to the fork is 3 1/2".
Edited by fenix 2014-02-02 2:53 PM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | ok , thanks a million but i could use more info . how long is the adjuster rod . on the end that holds the adjuster is there a groove on the inside or is the tube still fastened to the ball on the other
side . that will answer the groove question also . can you get the length of the tang on the other side , ( should be longer ) . the rod from the pedal could you possibly get that length also .
before the snow hit today , i brought red inside and removed the entire left corner and grill to have a peek . by looking at both motors and how things are situated , i'm thinking i'm going to need to
put the oem frame bracket back on the shelf and fab one to bring the frame side stud ball forward 1 1/2 - 2 ins. to line up with the new bell/motor . that's guessing with minor measurements and
eyeball but 95% sure for the frame bracket . i'm hoping the fork i bought will be here tomorrow , so i'll have to back red out to have room to pull the trans off again with the picker and install the new
fork . that should be the end of messin with that part of it . then i hope to proceed to old motor removal . if i'm seeing and thinking right , with the z-bar in place and everything operable , i should be
able to retain my ballenger headers in place . at least that's what i'm hoping ------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: atlanta | 60 dart - 2014-02-03 12:38 AM
ok , thanks a million but i could use more info . how long is the adjuster rod . on the end that holds the adjuster is there a groove on the inside or is the tube still fastened to the ball on the other
side . that will answer the groove question
The ajjuster to the fork? 3 1/2
The insde of the Zbar is attached, won't pull loose, i assumed it would slide out like the bell side, but no, unless i'm not tuggin' hard enough. There is no grouve on the inside of the Zbar main tube, just some nylon halves that capture the ball end on the bell.
also . can you get the length of the tang on the other side , ( should be longer ) . the rod from the pedal could you possibly get that length also .
Very hard to get in there, looks like he rod from the pedal goes to the tang on the inside, but it looks like it's inside the frame sortta. if it helps, the rod is ten inches from the end where it attaches to the clutch pedal to where it enters the floor with the pedal all the way up in driving position. It's wet as hell on the carport and hard to get in there.
Edited by fenix 2014-02-04 2:55 PM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | thanks buddy , all has been great help . when you measured the lever , did you measure from the tube for length or the total spline .
i got the new fork installed but looks to me like i have the wrong fork pivot . it doesn't fit the seat in the fork by being too wide . also looks like the fork is settin too far rearward , maybe not allowing enough
movement . the pivot is also off center bolt up . i think i need one centered .
my z-bar is
9 1/2 long
levers are
2 1/2 and 2 long
peddle rod to z-bar is
15 1/4 long
it might be of help to me to call brewers performance , tell em what bell i'm using and what direction i need to move in . but on the other hand , i like doin things the hard way --------------------------------------later |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | old motor is out , still on the picker , resting on the front cross member . i figured i'd pull it alone , all by myself and it went way smooth . ---------------------------------------------later |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | new motor sittin in loose . now to line everything back up , getting the pinion angle close , fab a trans mount . one nice thing is it looks like no need for a shifter tunnel , only a hole for the shifter
mechanism . i may transform the motor mounts to solid mounts using 3 grade 8 , 3/8's bolts . a good number of people recommend putting a 1/2" bolt thru the mount as a stop gap measure for a broken
or weak mount even i done it over the years . sittin back just lookin at the mount 1 bolt just doesn't seem right . 1 bolt would seem to want to put flex on the 1 bolt side of the motor mount ears . 2
would probably stop the flex but i like over kill so i'm thinkin 3 but if one does 1 side , the other side would have to be done also . the opposite side would still move and put pressure on the first side . so
3 bolts each side , make sure the block side bolts are good and tight with lock washers . takin these motors out and back in by myself ,i was thinkin it's going to be tuff . i was amazed at the ease , not
one cuss word------except for the headers !-----------------------------later |
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Location: N.W. Fla. | 60 dart - 2014-02-11 11:23 PM
. sittin back just lookin at the mount 1 bolt just doesn't seem right . 1 bolt would seem to want to put flex on the 1 bolt side of the motor mount ears . Exactly! Use 3 short bolts or you risk breaking the ears with a long bolt, I e don't! .  |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | hmmmm , i'm talkin about putting 3 bolts "through" the mount . not just using one of the ear bolts versus 3 . anyhow it aint happening today , it'll have to wait for round 2--------------------------------------later |
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Location: N.W. Fla. | 60 dart - 2014-02-12 12:04 PM
hmmmm , i'm talkin about putting 3 bolts "through" the mount . not just using one of the ear bolts versus 3 . anyhow it aint happening today , it'll have to wait for round 2--------------------------------------later Was you talking about lower to upper mounts instead of mounts to ears? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i messed around fabbing a trans mount using an old 64 chrysler mount . first thing i did was check the rear pinion angle . it's @4.5* , so i'm using that number for the front pinion angle . i'll going with
the theory of , the angle can be 2 to 5* , but not less than 2 , with a difference between the 2 of no greater than .5* . so what i want is close as possible 4.5* at both front and rear . i also had to redrill
the trans mount holes as it is for a 64-65 tailshaft , now it's a 69-70 tailshaft with a slip yoke .
the z-bar i have is deffinately going to need work , shortened and longer levers . for the time being i think i'll fab up pedal rod just to see what i might need for length . i may even need to do some work
on the lever at the pedal but don't know yet .
the pistol grip shifter i was wanting to use , aint gettin it . it would have to set too far forward , neutral is just about at the dash . i do have the long laid back stick that came with the shifter kit and is bolted
on now with shift room to spare . the shift levers are close to the tunnel side but after the trans is bolted solid , just a little tweek with a pry bar on the side of the tunnel will make that work . about the only
tunnel fab i will have to do is fab a tower around the shifter with a boot square on top .
i had a real pisser happen with the E T aluminum wheels i wanted to use . yesterday i put em on the car to get em outa the way and put the old ones in front of the garage doors outside and told the neighbor
kid if he knew anyone that wanted them to just take em . well today while i was spreading salt out front on the ice he pulled up with his friends and i asked if he wanted em , to get em gone , so he took em .
my next step was to put the rear of the car on jack stands . so i could get under to get the pinion degree of the rear . got it up , went to turn the rear wheel by hand , it barely moved , turned hard . so what
the hell , it's rubbing the inner panel . not enough offset on the wheel . so then i had to go beg my old wheels back , got em back but still feel like a total ass or indian giver ----------------------------------------later
Edited by 60 dart 2014-02-13 12:47 AM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | rear end pinion 4.5* , front pinion 4.2* . built a good trans mount ,,,,,,,,,, twice . on to the z-bar setup . fabbed a stud ball plate for the fender side , with stud ball , good . fabbed at stud ball plate for motor
side , shortened the stud ball .5 in. . turned it down the snug press fit the receiver , temp peened the inside . shortened the z-bar @ 1 in. which removed the inside lever , ok . looked at it a second or 2 , pushed
on the clutch fork back , it barely hits the torsion bar ................so 4.5 and 4.2* , although good , won't work . i'm thinkin a shim between the trans mount and trans of 3/8-1/2" will bring it up but will change the front
pinion angle ,,,,,,,,, again , to around 2.5* . so that means the rear pinion angle needs to drop 2* and the only way to do it is with 2* axle wedges . very disappointing to say the least but the worst part is
wasting time doing it all over again , at least it will be right .
when i first went to the garage today , i started looking for the 2 nuts that hold the trans mount to the cross member , as last night i couldn't find them . now mind you , i'm only working in a 4x6' area under the car .
they are the same nuts i took off . nowhere to be found . looked through every can and jar i have for replacements 5/6 x 20 , aint got nun . so i look under and around , under the car for the 20th. time , no where
to be seen or found . discussded , i pick up my wonderful magnetic trouble light and the nuts and 1 missing washer were stuck to the magnet . i'm havin a fantabulus time -------------------------------later
ps. it aint that dammed funny 
Edited by 60 dart 2014-02-18 1:01 AM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | I feel for you on that one Check
Been there myself
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | come to find that the top gen. mount won't fit . it sits too high to fit the third mount bolt into the head . why , i think it's because the p600 intake i'm using to mock up isn't
machined down to receive the gen. mount . so i'll get the intake i'm going with and check that one out . in the end , at least for now it's going to be a top mount gen . maybe
if i can find , if i look , a later poly head that accepts an alt. mount . plans , build a top mount . the other thing , thanks to rodger reddish for taking the time to explain the
short comings of using the top mount , is the fan pulley has to be a shorter one by @ 1 1/2" . so in building one , i'll just move the gen. back --------------------------------later |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | yesterday i re-routed the old side pipes to accept the new spitfire headers . waiting on good gaskets to finish em up . the more i looked at the gen. mounting for a top position , the more
it looked too high . maybe too high to take any chances of hitting the hood when closed and sucking down the insulation . soooo , here's the plan i'm going with and sticking with . what i'll do is
copy the right side , front 5" of the ballenger headers gen. mount . doing that i can bolt that new section on top of the spitfire header's using the front 2 bolts and connect to the 3rd. far front bolt hole
in the head . not such a big deal but time consuming cutting out all the parts needed to do the finished piece using a 6" wafer wheel . after that is fabbed up , it's just a matter of bolting the oem gen.
bracket to it and the oem adjusting arm . copying the end of the ballengers also takes the guess work out of aligning pulleys .
with this stroker motor and a front sway bar this car is going to seam like it's a totally different one . i may even install the new 6 leaf , 2" lift springs , i've had laying for 3 yrs. -------------------------later
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | yesterday i decided that since the fuel pump eccentric doesn't seem to be getting oil , to put on a timing setup oiler . the earlier motors had them but seems they stopped oem ones @ 59 . if they were
continued after my books , 61 , i'm not sure . the older ones were built similar to the one i fabbed but point down to the left , i decided to go right side , just a little off center toward the rear . if it were to
be set at center it would be the center smooth part of the gear and not throwing as much oil all over . pointing left , most of the oil would be slug from the chain before it does much good to the pan . i
installed a new eccentric . i'm thinking there is something different on the newer crank that won't allow the oil to be picked up to sling oil to the timing set up . so i'll see just how it works . surely it won't
hurt to have more oil moving up front . i trimmed the pistons for clearance , re-installed the heads , set the valves . i also chased out the dampness out by using 2 quarts of WD40 with 3 quarts of rotella .
drained that after setting a few days , then 5 quarts of straight rotella and filter . total time spinning the oil pump was probably @ 20 mins. . the books don't call it an oiler , it's listed as a trough . seems
kinda funny , simply calling it that ---------------------------------------------------later
Edited by 60 dart 2014-11-02 12:14 AM
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Location: atlanta | When that rocket takes off, I wanna ride!! Man what a long road Chuck, or should We call Ya Jobe |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | might end up like virgin galactic ------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: Perth Australia | You worry me with this oil thing Chuck
I was thinking about it, and I dont think I would have the same problem (I am tempted to pull the fuel pump to check though)
The oil return from the remote filter I have goes to 1 of the fuel pump bolts (its hollow), so that should spray plenty of oil on the chain (I think, hope)
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Location: atlanta | Mick, are You saying Your total oil return is through that fuel pump bolt? |
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Location: Perth Australia | Yep
(I know, I need a belt )
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | yah , i would suppose your timing setup would be gettin enough oil considering the line to the fuel pump bolt would be the return line ------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: atlanta | Mick, that's ingenius, you've run it, right? how did ya adapt the fitting to the bolt, or is it drilled threaded rod? |
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Location: atlanta | 60 dart - 2014-11-02 12:12 AM
yesterday i decided that since the fuel pump eccentric doesn't seem to be getting oil , to put on a timing setup oiler . the earlier motors had them but seems they stopped oem ones @ 59 . if they were
continued after my books , 61 , i'm not sure . the older ones were built similar to the one i fabbed but point down to the left , i decided to go right side , just a little off center toward the rear . if it were to
be set at center it would be the center smooth part of the gear and not throwing as much oil all over . pointing left , most of the oil would be slug from the chain before it does much good to the pan . i
installed a new eccentric . i'm thinking there is something different on the newer crank that won't allow the oil to be picked up to sling oil to the timing set up . so i'll see just how it works . surely it won't
hurt to have more oil moving up front . i trimmed the pistons for clearance , re-installed the heads , set the valves . i also chased out the dampness out by using 2 quarts of WD40 with 3 quarts of rotella .
drained that after setting a few days , then 5 quarts of straight rotella and filter . total time spinning the oil pump was probably @ 20 mins. . the books don't call it an oiler , it's listed as a trough . seems
kinda funny , simply calling it that ---------------------------------------------------later
That's pretty swift there too Chucks, is that the same design as the original ones? my 61 and 66 motors didn't have oil slingers or capturer's either. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | yah pretty much , only i angled it to the right instead of the left . it'll slop more oil upward to where i need it ------------------------------------------later |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | perth , does the hose from the block screw directly into the block casting , then to the can -----------------------------------------------------later |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 594
Location: Melbourne, Australia | Lots of Polys in Right Hand Drive configuration run the remote filter and feed lines out here, ex factory ! 'Coz the canister filter hits the new steering box... Micks sure is pretty though !! Colin |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | There is a sort of dome that takes the place of where the filter is on the US ones
I will try to dig one up and put a picture up of Chuck
The filter element that gets used would be the same as the US one
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | 3 weeks ago i sent my engine builder/machinist an email . he answered by stating he'd come over to have a look at whats goin on with the motor . a few other things were said and i stated i can't afford to keep throwing
money at this motor , never heard back . 3 days ago i sent him another email stating i hoped i hadn't said anything to piss him off . so today , saturday late , i got this email back from him .
Chuck your not gonna piss me off . i understand frustration and dealing with engines . just been super busy. when i get a chance ill email you . is your garage heated ? i can come over and give you a diagnosis
and we'll figure this out . this isn't about money its about getting your old girl running so quit fretting about money .
so maybe in a few days i can get answers as to just what is wrong . if it weren't for the overheating problem everything else would fall into place . maybe removing the thermostat and a new larger radiator by volume
will help . i'm hoping something good shakes out . -------------------------------------------------------later
Edited by 60 dart 2014-11-16 2:49 AM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | I hope it all works out Chuck, Its gotta be pissing you off (as well as being dis heartening)
Fenix
I missed your post above, the bolt in the fuel pump is factory, its hollow, but instead of a normal bolt head, its like a female brake fitting (if that makes sence)
If I dig up another one down the track, i'll post a picture of it
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Location: N.W. Fla. | 60 dart - 2014-11-16 1:48 AM
. maybe removing the thermostat and a new larger radiator by volume
will help . A bigger radiator may help if yours is too small. My understanding is running no thermostat can cause it to run too hot from lack of time in the radiator for the water to cool off, though that might not be a problem in the mountains in Winter... |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i can remember as a kid removing a thermostat on some motors of different makes . some got hot and some didn't ---------------------------------------------later |
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