1958 Fireflite Convertible
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-07-17 12:26 AM (#386187)
Subject: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
Going to start a dedicated thread to the restoration of the DeSoto. I have owned this particular
car since the early 90's. I had been building a basket case 58 Adventurer convertible for years
and found this car in my search for parts for the Adventurer. When it came up for sale I sold the
Adventurer project and dumped all my energies into a far more complete car.

After a couple busy months of work on the Fireflite, it was a pretty presentable driver and after
so many years of hunting unobtainium parts to build the Adventurer, I was happy to just enjoy the
Fireflite "as is" for a while before really doing it right. The car was together and driven regularly
for about 9 months, including a cross-country trip before a drugged driver rear ended me as I sat
at a red light. The car was immediately torn down to the frame and a new body was built around
a pile of rust-free parts I had saved, but life got in the way before I had the body completely back
together and the poor car has been mothballed and moved about from place to place for 15+ years.

Last week I began digging the shop out and figured it would be fun to look back from the very beginning
and see how this progressed from the start. It will start slow, as the priority is to finish the 58 Plaza,
but in doing that work, some work will push forward on the DeSoto as a matter of doing the Plymouth.

Photos to follow.
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christine-lover
Posted 2013-07-17 5:42 AM (#386204 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Brent, it will be nice to see your Desoto restoration. Are you back over here for good or are you going back?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-07-17 11:39 AM (#386231 - in reply to #386204)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
I am finished. Got hurt out at al Pasab and that pretty much set the wheels in motion for
"game over".
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big m
Posted 2013-07-17 12:04 PM (#386238 - in reply to #386231)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Doctor DeSoto - 2013-07-17 8:39 AM

I am finished. Got hurt out at al Pasab and that pretty much set the wheels in motion for
"game over".


Glad to have you back, Brent.

---John
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christine-lover
Posted 2013-07-17 12:24 PM (#386241 - in reply to #386238)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Cool.

Your gonna miss the burkas right?
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2013-07-17 1:28 PM (#386248 - in reply to #386241)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Welcome back, Doc! Now get those pictures going! Let's see some Re Soto-ation in progress!
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Boris56
Posted 2013-07-17 1:38 PM (#386250 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Thank you for your service, Doctor. Good luck with the DeSoto restoration.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-07-22 1:52 PM (#386964 - in reply to #386250)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
IT mind needed !

While I was deployed, the wifeperson got herself an HP Photosmart Plus scanner and dialed it in
to her Mac desktop computer.

Since demobilizing, I found one of my boxes of old car photos and thought I'd carry out on a threat
to tease you guys with car spotting photos from the old days. Here's the rub ....

I scan the photos to her desktop, I then send an email to my computer with the photos attached and
place in a desktop folder. From there, I post the photos to the Forward Look site, where I am told that
the photos are successfully uploaded. Everything looks great EXCEPT the photos do not show !!!!

It shows them in the post as being downloaded. It shows the extension code, etc. Just no photos !

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a matter of reference, if I had photos of the Plaza work sent to me from the restoration shop, I could
download and post with no issues. If the same email from the restoration shop were sent to the wifeperson,
and then forwarded to me in AFG, it had the same issue.

I called a super-mac fan and asked for advice this AM and then went back in to check some settings on the
wifeperson's computer such as sizing, Windows-friendly, and extension settings, and all looks OK. Sent a test
run and still a no-go.

Ideas ????
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-07-22 3:58 PM (#386988 - in reply to #386964)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
Kudos to Bigblkmopar for figuring out that the wifeperson's computer mysteriously adds a
non-functional "jpeg" extension (not accepted by the FL site software) instead of a "jpg" which
apparently allows the FL site software to read the photo and show it, instead of just showing the
linked attachment.

Out of curiosity, can anyone see this photo without clicking on the link ? Or can you open the
link at all ?




Attachments
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Attachments 58 Ply's and 60 Flite .jpeg (91KB - 771 downloads)
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springsweptwing
Posted 2013-07-22 4:05 PM (#386992 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Cannot see photo without downloading it?





(58 Ply's and 60 Flite (1).JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 58 Ply's and 60 Flite (1).JPG (51KB - 743 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-07-22 5:49 PM (#387025 - in reply to #386992)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
Thanks. That's what I thought.
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57burb
Posted 2013-07-23 10:36 AM (#387187 - in reply to #386992)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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The Forward Look site is very archaic, by internet forum standards. As stated, it does not allow .jpeg files to be viewed in their native state, but it does allow them to be uploaded and downloaded for viewing. Which is strange, because the Joint Photographic Experts Group, which created the image compression standard that we know collectively as "jaypeg" intended the .jpg .jpeg file types to be interchangeable (along with a couple of others). The intent was to continue to allow Mac and Unix operating systems to use four-digit file extensions, while also supporting early Windows systems which used the 8.3 file naming convention (a maximum of eight character file names, and three character file types).

------Long story short, .jpg and .jpeg files are one and the same.------

Brent, I recommend saving them as .jpg files when you perform the scan. I am 99.9999% certain this will be an option in the file save settings of your scanner software. I find it a little strange that its default is .jpeg anyway.

That said, the black Desoto in the background is mighty tasty. Keep em coming!

Edited by 57burb 2013-07-23 10:37 AM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-07-23 12:32 PM (#387219 - in reply to #387187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
All under control. Just been super busy doing job search stuff.

That black Fireflite is the 383 crossram, 3-onda-floor car.
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Chrys 68
Posted 2013-09-22 3:12 PM (#399090 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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More 1958 Fireflite Convertible pics please!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-09-23 12:22 AM (#399151 - in reply to #399090)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
I have put this on a back burner .... was having problems with my scan sizing.

Let's see how this works .....

Photo taken on the farm where I bought a 58 Coronet Spring Special coupe. I think that
would have been 1996 ?




(Skagit Farm 1.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Skagit Farm 1.jpg (50KB - 728 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-09-23 12:24 AM (#399152 - in reply to #399151)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
Alright, .... still doing something wrong. Photo too small and resolution too low.

I am using an HP Photosmart Plus scanner. I am seeing few options for editing.

Ideas ?
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Chrys 68
Posted 2013-09-23 1:52 AM (#399166 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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No experience with scanners. I usually photograph old pictures to make them digital.
Nice picture of your 58!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-11 12:05 PM (#402895 - in reply to #399166)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
Okey-doke ! Off to a slow start, but that was always the plan anyway. Been organizing the
mass of collected junk I had to pack into the shop when I deployed 3 years ago, and as a result,
more and more room comes available to further organize.

With the snows coming, it was my goal to get the Coronet dug out of its burial spot and outside,
so I could move the rear clip I had leaned up against a front wall to the back of the shop where
the tools, power, and light are. The weather turned rapidly this year, and it has been cold and
raining now for weeks, so I took a sunny moment, moved some stuff around, grabbed a few
errant neighbors, and we tipped the big lunk of metal down and carried it into position for dissecting
over the winter.

I will now remove the undercoating and cut / drill out the spot welds to turn the clip into the panels
I need to finish the rebuild of my DeSoto.

It had been my vision to have the shop all beautiful and nice for doing this work, but my experience
working in rough conditions in AFG, and the desire to get this project back on the rails has me pushing
forward, even if it won't be comfortable. The space that the rear clip took up can now be used to store
the compressors, welder, torches, etc. that now make the DeSoto appear buried. All is good.




(66 coro rag in shop.jpg)



(66 coro rag out of shop.jpg)



(59 r clip for Ethyl.jpg)



(Ethyl buried Oct 2013.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 66 coro rag in shop.jpg (63KB - 787 downloads)
Attachments 66 coro rag out of shop.jpg (75KB - 729 downloads)
Attachments 59 r clip for Ethyl.jpg (55KB - 760 downloads)
Attachments Ethyl buried Oct 2013.jpg (74KB - 688 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-13 1:11 AM (#403214 - in reply to #402895)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
Got a little time this afternoon and began removing the undercoating before I separate the
various panels. This car had another car set on top of it, crushing it in certain contact points.
I will have some rust repair to do here and there, but the dents and creases should be relatively
easy to pound out when the panels are separated.

Only one area (brownish area on right) required the use of a heat gun to soften the goo. All
the rest came off easy enough with my 5-in-1 tool.





(peeling undercoat 1.jpg)



(peeling undercoat 2.jpg)



(peeling undercoat 3.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments peeling undercoat 1.jpg (56KB - 710 downloads)
Attachments peeling undercoat 2.jpg (61KB - 737 downloads)
Attachments peeling undercoat 3.jpg (66KB - 701 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-16 12:50 AM (#403900 - in reply to #403214)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
With the undercoating peeled off the bottom of the body, I decided to push forward and separate
the panels and peel the topside as needed.

This can be a bit of challenge to find the spot welds. By using low light with a bright light running
across the surface at an oblique angle, most are made visible by the slight dimple or shadow. I have
developed a strategy of drilling them out with a 1/4" bit with a centering point and chasing the seam
from one end to the other with a bee hive tool that I slightly blunt the tip on. By driving this tool down
the joined seam, it pops any residual bite the drill might have missed, or quickly lets you know you
missed one altogether.

As the panels come apart, they tend to release a tension that makes the job go a little easier as you
move along by indicating where that next weld might be hiding. While most welds leave indentations,
others leave high bumps and some are downright invisible until you put separating pressure up to it.

Here I am working from the rear bumper cutaway forward to the door jamb. Since the 59 has a different
profile/contour at the back edge, I will have to cut this off square and extend the metal back about 4".

As my wheel tub is wasted to a point about 4" from the lip, I face the worst challenge of building rear
quarters back - building the tub lip back into thin air (no outer skin to mate it to) - I chose to do the outer
skin in three pieces, the wheel opening, and the two panels fore and aft, and cut the outer skin accordingly.

I ran out of battery on my grinder, so I left that part incomplete and moved forward in cleaning the
inside of the wheel tub in preparation for dissecting that piece next. As the convertible has unique
wheel tubs, I must do my repairs low enough on them to catch it in that area where they are the same
with the non-convertibles.

It is my plan to do any rust repairs to the wheel well lip (outer skin) first, then mock it up in place to
dial that tub lip in for length (as it hangs down from the existing upper tub). Once happy with that, I can
remove the outer skin and weld the tub lip in . This will take 500 on-and-off test drives to get right.
.... but, as the rear wheel lip is such a striking detail of the Forward Look cars, and is so often done wrong
on lesser restorations, it is one of those bullets you just gotta bite.


Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2013-10-16 12:56 AM




(DSC02687.jpg)



(drilling welds 2.jpg)



(drilling welds 3.jpg)



(drilling welds 4.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments DSC02687.jpg (38KB - 718 downloads)
Attachments drilling welds 2.jpg (51KB - 770 downloads)
Attachments drilling welds 3.jpg (41KB - 732 downloads)
Attachments drilling welds 4.jpg (39KB - 722 downloads)
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big m
Posted 2013-10-16 12:51 PM (#403964 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Good to see you going on your Desoto, Brent. Looking forward to your restoration here.

---John
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-16 3:41 PM (#404006 - in reply to #403964)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
I'll be "working in the dirt" for a while, so it will be a slow process. But slow progress is better
than NO progress, right ? Hey, if Denis can do the work he does, I can certainly give this a good
shake.

Just chopping up this rear clip into the workable parts will free up a 15' x 15' floor space, which
is moving forward in itself. If I want to install a wood stove for over the winter, I gotta have some
open space. Fabbing in 20f degree weather with no heat sucks !

One day at a time.
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ttotired
Posted 2013-10-16 7:18 PM (#404046 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Amazing how much more a mis hit with the hammer hurts when its cold as well

Hate drilling spot welds, There was no consistancy when they did them, just banged them in as fast as they could

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big m
Posted 2013-10-16 7:37 PM (#404048 - in reply to #404006)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Doctor DeSoto - 2013-10-16 12:41 PM

I'll be "working in the dirt" for a while, so it will be a slow process. But slow progress is better
than NO progress, right ? Hey, if Denis can do the work he does, I can certainly give this a good
shake.

Just chopping up this rear clip into the workable parts will free up a 15' x 15' floor space, which
is moving forward in itself. If I want to install a wood stove for over the winter, I gotta have some
open space. Fabbing in 20f degree weather with no heat sucks !

One day at a time.


I hear ya- With no door on the big barn, even here in Ca, it gets to 30-40 degrees, and the wind whips in sometimes. I have a couple smudge pots I burn oil in to make it a tad warmer.

---John
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-21 12:24 AM (#405015 - in reply to #404048)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
Had about an hour of free time tonight and hit the DeSoto project for a short run. Decided to
unbury the DeSoto and see what the trunk looks like under all those parts and undercoating.
Happy news, there are some ugly amateur patches welded in over the top of the original metal,
but a surprising amount of the original floor is very much intact and still in shiny metal/grey
primer. By removing these patches first, I can determine what I need to extract from the parts
clip. I expected this to to be a total wash, but may get a break here.
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60 Imp
Posted 2013-10-21 9:17 AM (#405052 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible


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Been a long time coming, this 58 Fireflite.

Keen to see more photo's, so..........

Go Man go!

Steve.
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60 Imp
Posted 2013-10-21 9:27 AM (#405053 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible


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Location: North Australia
What's the plan Doctor?

Built to look original as possible (with subtle upgrades)?

Steve.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-21 12:29 PM (#405082 - in reply to #405053)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
Short term goal is to finish putting the body back together. Once done, I will pull it off
the frame and do the chassis. As this was already made mechanically good, it should be
more cosmetic than anything. However, the engine and trans will get yanked and the
tricks I plan for maximum fuel economy will be put into place ... namely a bunch of internal
engine stuff and a modern 5-speed transmission. The rear gears will get a raise to 2.76
in the process too. That finished, the body goes back on and we button it up in an atypical
color combo that represents a uniquely late 50's sort of paint scheme. As of now, the plan
is lavender metallic with charcoal sweep and black top.
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hemidave
Posted 2013-10-21 10:57 PM (#405203 - in reply to #405082)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Doctor DeSoto - 2013-10-21 12:29 PM

Short term goal is to finish putting the body back together. Once done, I will pull it off
the frame and do the chassis. As this was already made mechanically good, it should be
more cosmetic than anything. However, the engine and trans will get yanked and the
tricks I plan for maximum fuel economy will be put into place ... namely a bunch of internal
engine stuff and a modern 5-speed transmission. The rear gears will get a raise to 2.76
in the process too. That finished, the body goes back on and we button it up in an atypical
color combo that represents a uniquely late 50's sort of paint scheme. As of now, the plan
is lavender metallic with charcoal sweep and black top.


And dog dish hubcaps ???
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-22 1:26 AM (#405214 - in reply to #405203)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
I have them, but no, dog dishies were not available on Fireflites and would look inappropriate
on a top line car. That's where the Plaza comes in ....

Not sure what I'll run. I hate the standard wheel covers, which leaves 2 options ... wires, or
the spinners. I have always run wires and love them, but with the way every FL convertible now
seems to wear them, my interest is waning. Perhaps have some 15" wheels custom made to hold
that 14" spinner ???
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57Kelii
Posted 2013-10-22 4:54 AM (#405223 - in reply to #405214)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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I like the wires, its a slap in the face and a reminder to all the other FL converts with your unique color scheme which sets yours apart.
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60 Imp
Posted 2013-10-22 9:35 AM (#405243 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible


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Location: North Australia
Chrysler made some good looking full wheel covers in the 60's (and maybe in the 70's), Maybe there is some that would suit the car? last link is the 58 type you don't like?

Steve.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-1967-1968-CHRYSLER-USED-NICE-WHEEL-COV...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-CHRYSLER-NEW-YORKER-FIFTH-AVE-NEWPORT-...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1972-1978-Chrysler-Wheel-Cover-/1506780...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-68-NOS-DODGE-POLARA-MONACO-CORONET-14-...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1976-80-NOS-PLYMOUTH-DODGE-VOLARE-ASPEN-14-...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Chrysler-Newport-Wheel-Cover-/16110417...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Our-best-1958-DeSoto-Hub-Cap-Wheel-Cover-/1...

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hemidenis
Posted 2013-10-22 10:24 AM (#405249 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Good to see you and your project back Doc!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-22 1:09 PM (#405273 - in reply to #405243)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
The reason I don't care for the 58 DeSoto wheelcovers is the large, flat disc in the center.
Conversely, I like the 57 wheelcover. I'm a picky #@!, and don't like drifting out of period
to maintain a period appearance.

I will take photos of the dog dish and spinner and post here for reference.

I would argue that the 57-58 Dodge spinner is one of the best looking wheelcovers ever made.
57-58 NY'er covers are good looking too. So are the 300 and Imperial covers through those
years.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-22 1:11 PM (#405275 - in reply to #405273)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Denis, I credit you with kicking my ass into gear and making this happen. Watching how you
whipped those cars of yours into shape, working in less than ideal conditions. It is time to stop
making excuses. As I said above, slow progress is better than NO progress.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-22 10:16 PM (#405394 - in reply to #405275)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
I went on a little hunt today and located the 57-61 DeSoto dog dish hubcaps (someone had
asked for a photo of these), and well as the gold half of a Fuel Injection emblem and a handful
of 58 Spring Special trunk bars. Could not find the spinners, but put eyes on them since coming
home, so they are somewhere close. Will post a photo of those when I find them.

The dog dish originally had black paint between the outer rings. It still shows a little, but most
has come off over the years.



Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2013-10-22 10:25 PM




(dog dish.jpg)



(fuel injection emblem.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments dog dish.jpg (56KB - 713 downloads)
Attachments fuel injection emblem.jpg (43KB - 725 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-22 10:20 PM (#405395 - in reply to #405394)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
Photos of the work I did peeling back the trunk floor in the DeSoto to reveal some pretty
decent floor areas and some real amateur patches. I expected far worse, so this is a good
thing !




(trunk floor 1.jpg)



(trunk floor 2.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments trunk floor 1.jpg (50KB - 722 downloads)
Attachments trunk floor 2.jpg (55KB - 736 downloads)
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58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2013-10-23 12:24 AM (#405425 - in reply to #405395)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Here is an idea for your wheels. Paint the wheels body color Lavender, use the dog dish caps, but repaint the outer edge (that was black) with the body color, then put a set of beauty rings with them. That way they look like a full hubcap, and it ties in with the car nicely. And it will be unique , and have that 50s feel.
Or if that is not 50s enough, you could paint the wheels and the outer edge of the dog dish black.
.... Just throwing out ideas to ya. Whatever you do will be great, I know it. Good luck.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-23 12:53 AM (#405429 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
If this were a Firedome, I would not hesitate running the dog dishies. It truly would
be unique. I don't know of a single example of a 57-61 DeSoto running doggies today,
let alone a big body, or a convertible ! But a Fireflite just would be wrong with dog
dishies as an original appearing upline car.

It will boil down to wires or custom wheels and those spinners.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2013-10-23 10:35 AM (#405479 - in reply to #405429)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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I might be wrong, but I think the Firedome and the Fireflite both came standard with full wheel covers and the same wheels beneath. If I am not mistaken, the wheels did not have the bumps or tabs around the hub to accommodate a hub cap. Those were only standard (and rare) on the Firesweeps with Dodge wheels.

So, if you had an original Fireflite or Firedome and you wanted to have the hubcaps, you would have to find not only the hubcaps but also a new set of wheels! Good work on the Fireflite, Doc!
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57burb
Posted 2013-10-23 11:12 AM (#405490 - in reply to #405479)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: DFW, TX
I agree with you that the '58 Desoto wheelcovers are bland. The '57 units are more appealing IMO.

The '56 Dodge Lancer spinner hubcaps might be a good choice as well, and they are 15". Just a thought.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Lancer-1955-1956-Hub-Caps-/1511485664...
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-23 11:46 AM (#405501 - in reply to #405479)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Lancer Mike - 2013-10-24 7:35 AM

I might be wrong, but I think the Firedome and the Fireflite both came standard with full wheel covers and the same wheels beneath. If I am not mistaken, the wheels did not have the bumps or tabs around the hub to accommodate a hub cap. Those were only standard (and rare) on the Firesweeps with Dodge wheels.

So, if you had an original Fireflite or Firedome and you wanted to have the hubcaps, you would have to find not only the hubcaps but also a new set of wheels! Good work on the Fireflite, Doc!


===================================================

I used to be so up on this, but have been away from it too long now to pull it off the top of my head ....

A regret of mine is not purchasing a 57 Firedome convertible that was a stripper. This car was a pile of
rust in someone's back yard (unmolested) and was equipped with body color wheels and dog dishies. Since
the Firedome was DeSoto's cheapest ragtop for 57, this may have changed for 58 when the Sweep became
the low price ragtop ??? I would have to pour over my old paper to verify, and right now that ain't happening !

For whatever reasons, little thought was given to selling/buying Plymouths with dog dishies back in the day.
But step up to a DeSoto, even a very similar-to-a-Plymouth Firesweep, and it seems few people did not step
up and pay the extra $6 to get the full face wheelcovers. Not sure why.

Personally, I don't think the 58 DeSoto works as a no-sweep car. The 57 side trim worked well with the single
bar, but the 58 just looks like parts are missing. I think a no-sweep ragtop with doggies would be very attractive
in 57 trim, but would look awkward as a 58. I guess if one really wanted an unusual car, that would be the way
to go ? I just could not bring myself to do that to an upline Fireflite. It is too big of a stretch. The dealer would
have sold them a Sweep or Dome.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-24 1:21 AM (#405665 - in reply to #405501)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Tonight it was time to finish peeling back the butyl goo (a real b!tch) that the doer of these
terrible patches slimed over all the joints. As long as you can't see the rust underneath, it's
all gone, right ?

Cutting the welds at the patch edge, I used a flatbar to apply pressure and break the welds
before cutting into good floor. I can grind off what welds remain after I cut the metal back to
the point I want to replace. Being careful not to cut too much may save me a little repair later.

You can really see the salt-induced kind of rust here that we don't get in the desert country.
The lap seams are swollen with scale to about 3/8" thick ! .... and gone between the original
spot welds. Do they salt the roads in Syracuse ???

I really need to take some time and get some lights hung. I am using RALS lights just because
I am too eager to get working on the car and don't want to take the time to get some real lights
in place.




(trunk removing old patches L 1.jpg)



(trunk removing old patches L 2.jpg)



(trunk removing old patches L 3.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-24 1:26 AM (#405666 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Being the only full service DeSoto-Plymouth dealer still in the area, I felt it important to give myself
an award for having such good taste. This arrived in the mail today.




(dealer award.jpg)



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christine-lover
Posted 2013-10-24 12:23 PM (#405730 - in reply to #405666)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 2996
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Location: Sept. 1958
It will be cool to see another vert restoration on here.

Btw, here's a pic of my fuelie X, no cut out for the Inj. The correct part number is on the reverse side though.



(image.jpg)



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ttotired
Posted 2013-10-24 5:54 PM (#405805 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert 5K+

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Location: Perth Australia
Without stealing your thread Doc

Wonder where the idea for the 60 dodge emblem came from?





(3325_12.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-25 12:37 PM (#405990 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Continuing with the trunk floor patch removal, I took some time and fished a light fixture out of the
upstairs storage area and made some hangers to suspend it right there off the underside of the deck
lid. A few new tubes, as the ones in the fixture were toast, and I had good light to work with. The RALS
still helped in areas where the grinder shadowed the work. All is good.

It seems the passenger side is a bit uglier than the driver side !

The worst part of this job is digging the butyl sealer out of the seams. The artist that did this work
apparently had no shortage of the stuff and applied it liberally to disguise his fine craftsmanship. It
takes me half the time to remove the metal that it does to get that nasty stuff out of there. It holds
REAL good and requires a finesse of pulling on the loose end while cutting away at the stuck part with
the 5-in-1 tool. Pull too hard, and it breaks, and then I am left with nothing to pull. But I am almost
finished, and then it is time to trim back my edges and start the rebuild.




(trunk removing old patches 4.jpg)



(trunk removing old patches 5.jpg)



(trunk removing old patches 6.jpg)



(trunk removing old patches 7.jpg)



(trunk removing old patches 8.jpg)



(trunk removing old patches 9.jpg)



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Attachments trunk removing old patches 8.jpg (62KB - 694 downloads)
Attachments trunk removing old patches 9.jpg (61KB - 744 downloads)
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big m
Posted 2013-10-25 1:22 PM (#405998 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert 5K+

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Location: Williams California
Looks like a real mess there!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-25 4:19 PM (#406038 - in reply to #405998)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
I am surprised to see the level of still-in-paint metal here, right alongside totally wasted areas.
I am accustomed to seeing a more uniform rust throughout. Cars from Seattle typically need the
entire trunk pan and side drops replaced, as the rear window trough leaked and allowed water to
just sit on the flat surface, the drops going gunnysack with the outer quarter skin from the wet debris
that always accumulates in that "sump"-like pocket.

I will need to hone my own rusty welding skills, but with this much metal still present, it will be more
of a patch job than a build-it-out-of-nothing adventure. Those are always fun because you are building
out into thin air with no straight lines for reference points. This should not be TOO bad.
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hemidenis
Posted 2013-10-25 6:21 PM (#406070 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 3887
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Location: Northen Virginia
Good work Doc, I wish my Imperial was in the US so I can keep working on the sheet metal like you are doing now.
Doc, don't worry about the hubcaps now, when the car is ready your decision about them will be too.
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big m
Posted 2013-10-25 7:55 PM (#406083 - in reply to #406038)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7805
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Location: Williams California
Doctor DeSoto - 2013-10-25 1:19 PM

I am surprised to see the level of still-in-paint metal here, right alongside totally wasted areas.
I am accustomed to seeing a more uniform rust throughout. Cars from Seattle typically need the
entire trunk pan and side drops replaced, as the rear window trough leaked and allowed water to
just sit on the flat surface, the drops going gunnysack with the outer quarter skin from the wet debris
that always accumulates in that "sump"-like pocket.

I will need to hone my own rusty welding skills, but with this much metal still present, it will be more
of a patch job than a build-it-out-of-nothing adventure. Those are always fun because you are building
out into thin air with no straight lines for reference points. This should not be TOO bad.


It's always so much more difficult dissecting and then repairing someone's former botch job. I've found metal so stretched that it took hours of shrinking to get back in place, all because someone didn't know what they were doing. Looks like you are digging right into it.

---John
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Powerflite
Posted 2013-10-25 8:39 PM (#406088 - in reply to #406083)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Looks like fun times are in store but its always great to be moving forward.
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ttotired
Posted 2013-10-26 12:19 AM (#406160 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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So Doc

With all this going on on your desosto, whats going on with the buzzard?

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-26 1:08 AM (#406167 - in reply to #406160)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Buzzard is on a skeleton budget, but still being worked on at the resto shop. They are doing paint prep.
I had the chrome done for the car, and am being a slacker in getting the aluminum in for re-anodizing ...
... but that is just me being busy.

Tonight I finished the cleanup of the DeSoto's trunk of all the patches and goo to reveal exactly what I
need to cut out of the parts clip. The right side forward body mount was rusty, so our intrepid repair guys
of yore pounded some very thin tin over the contours and tacked it in place as shown below.

I jumped back over to the clip and got to chipping away at the undercoating inside the wheel tub. I will
get it clean and remove it next. I think my best strategy is to rebuild the wheel tub first, using the flimsy,
but still there, surrounding metal as a reference point. Once in place, I can move backward with the vertical
piece that brings the trunk pan down to meet the quarter skin. Basically by moving my reference point back
a piece at a time, then I can remove the rear box rail to fab that in, THEN go forward on the driver's side.

Too easy, right ?




(trunk patch body mount r 1.jpg)



(trunk patch body mount r 2.jpg)



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Attachments trunk patch body mount r 1.jpg (58KB - 650 downloads)
Attachments trunk patch body mount r 2.jpg (55KB - 583 downloads)
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henricthornsund
Posted 2013-10-26 2:58 AM (#406178 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



50010025
Location: Sweden
This thread is highly enjoyable, glad you started it Doc. Body repair pics are always interesting and educational.
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firedome
Posted 2013-10-26 11:46 AM (#406217 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 3153
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Location: NY & VT
Nice to see the '58 moving forward again!
Looks to be almost on a par with John's '59 Plym in magnitude of work required - ie: more than I'd ever attempt.

Living these days only an hour S of Syracuse, this this kind of "metal art" kludge was routinely performed on poorly rustproofed late '50s cars after only a couple years of NY winters.. Our '63 Ford wagon was beginning to rust around the lower edges even before Dad gave it to me in '68, and that was in moderate weather Baltimore... upstate NY has salt on the road 5-6 months of the year!

Edited by firedome 2013-10-26 11:51 AM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-26 1:23 PM (#406250 - in reply to #406217)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
I write this like I would like to read it. That is, if I did not know squat about body work,
I might be able to get a handle on some of the nuances or develop the courage to try it.
So, it is about sharing knowledge in an easy-to-understand way to help out others who
might face similar challenges.

And yes, Firedome, this one is going to be a challenge. And if this looks interesting, keep
in mind that before it went into mothballs, it was chopped into separate parts, with the entire
center section of the car between the rear clip and cowl missing .... That work
is already done.

It is my plan to button the body back together, then take it off the frame, make the frame
and chassis all purty, do the transmission and engine mods, and then drop the body back on
and finish the paint and interior.

Since the car was mechanically restored in 1995, much of this work is simple cleanup and
transfer. But like I said to Fenix backchannel a couple days ago, I enjoy the journey WAY
more than the destination in life, and while most people probably stress out over a car so shredded,
I love this part of the restoration and ownership. It is my perpetual "barn find" and I enjoy it,
whether is it sitting there collecting dust or getting worked on, or being driven. It is a mess,
but it is MY mess !!!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-28 12:57 AM (#406565 - in reply to #406250)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Got back on the project for a couple hours tonight. I am dismantling the parts clip to create/separate out
the various pieces I will need to patch in.

The most complicated part to avoid fabricating is the rear box rail. I am unsure at this point if the 59 piece
is the same as the 58, but given the many long, compound curves, even if not identical, I may be able to
chop it up to make it right ???

So, the objective is to take the rear clip apart in the various pieces it was originally built from. First up was
the right side trunk floor "drop". I'll let the photos explain which piece I am talking about. It probably would
have been easier to remove if I had pulled the wheel tub first, but I discovered this late into the process. Since
I want to be welding this in from the top, I was forced to drill the welds on the flipped over clip from below - a
real PITA. For such a small piece, these are REALLY welded in place, and have some welds that are impossible
to get at with the wedge (to break), and as it forms part of the box rail end, has welds in some unexpected
places (not the usual in-a-line lap type welds).

I use a bright light, shown across the weld surface area, to help spot them (dimples or bumps) for drilling.
Shots 2 and 3 show the weld dimples and the same drilled out. Shot 4 shows the end of the box rail where
those same welds tied the two together.

With that side drop piece removed, it was time to remove the wheel tub. The last shot shows the welds drilled
out and the tub separated from the pan. There are some welds in the rear seat area that I will need to prop
the clip up in order to safely access, so I called it a night and I'll do that next.



Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2013-10-28 9:16 AM




(trunk at a distance.jpg)



(trunk side drop r 1.jpg)



(trunk side drop r 2.jpg)



(trunk side drop r 3.jpg)



(trunk side drop 4.jpg)



(wheel tub r 1.jpg)



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Attachments trunk side drop r 3.jpg (51KB - 624 downloads)
Attachments trunk side drop 4.jpg (37KB - 598 downloads)
Attachments wheel tub r 1.jpg (48KB - 651 downloads)
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earleebob
Posted 2013-10-28 6:41 AM (#406584 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1120
1000100
Location: Brisbane, Australia
That is a classic photo Doc!



(trunk at a distance[1].jpg)



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Attachments trunk at a distance[1].jpg (46KB - 613 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-28 9:18 AM (#406599 - in reply to #406584)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
For years, that has been my DAILY "barn find".

I am not joking when I say I like them in "as found" condition as much or more than all finished
and pretty. Something about "barn fresh" that is really thrilling.

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Chrys 68
Posted 2013-10-29 1:48 AM (#406852 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Elite Veteran

Posts: 673
5001002525
Location: Malung, SWEDEN
I think you need to see a doctor......:)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-29 10:29 AM (#406938 - in reply to #406852)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
I AM the doctor ! .... and I have a dealership award to prove it !





(dealer award.jpg)



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hemidenis
Posted 2013-10-31 1:57 AM (#407417 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 3887
20001000500100100100252525
Location: Northen Virginia
Doc, if you keep taking spot welds out of that rear clip, you are going to need this machine.



(doc.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-10-31 12:51 PM (#407505 - in reply to #407417)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
WOW !!!!!

THAT is something I have never seen before ! Kinda scary looking, isn't it ?

If you could send one right over, maybe I can get through this body rebuild faster.

Please include that nicely open and well lit shop while you're at it ! A big pile of
shiny new sheetmetal for the project would be nice too.
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hemidenis
Posted 2013-11-01 1:46 AM (#407732 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 3887
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Location: Northen Virginia
Sorry doc i have this machine only for 61, I think your machine model was gone by 61 even maybe for 59....
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firedome
Posted 2013-11-01 12:39 PM (#407813 - in reply to #407732)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 3153
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Location: NY & VT
Saw a later version of this machine in operation circa 1978 when I took my son with a Boy Scout group to the GM/Broening Highway Baltimore Assy'y plant (since closed) when they were building Grand Prix Pontiacs/Malibus there.. this contraption puts out quite a spectacular show of sparks!!

Another thing that impressed me was that they were still using hot lead, applied by hand from a bucket, to fill body seams such as the roof/body C-pillar joint... bet they don''t do that anymore!!
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The Chrysler Kid
Posted 2013-11-02 12:26 PM (#408019 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 1384
1000100100100252525
Location: Ocala, Florida
Really cool to see a car that rare sitting in a barn that isnt in Sweden.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-02 2:50 PM (#408044 - in reply to #408019)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
There isn't a day that goes by where I don't think that myself.

I have taken a lot of sh!t over letting that car sit, but you know, it is there, it is mine,
and I love it. ..... and it isn't gone overseas or to the crusher. It is still in a barn in America,
in my favorite setting (barn fresh). What could possibly be better ?

Life is about the journey, not the destination. Would I like it done ? Sure. Is it great just
puttering on it too ? You bet !
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-03 10:57 AM (#408169 - in reply to #408044)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Had a few more hours free to fiddle with the project. I propped the rear clip up on its
end and accessed the rear seat area to get the wheel tub free from the interior quarter
metal. As this piece is also needed for rust repair, I had to painstakingly cut way the rear
window channel metal to access the welds for drilling. Outside of a few small kinks created
while popping the welds, I got the tub free without too much destruction.



(wheel tub r 2.jpg)



(wheel tub r 3.jpg)



(wheel tub r 4.jpg)



(wheel tub r 5.jpg)



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Attachments wheel tub r 5.jpg (56KB - 610 downloads)
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The Chrysler Kid
Posted 2013-11-03 4:12 PM (#408231 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 1384
1000100100100252525
Location: Ocala, Florida
It's a really cool car to see in any condition! They made about 470 right?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-03 5:19 PM (#408243 - in reply to #408231)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
474, to be exact.
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The Chrysler Kid
Posted 2013-11-03 5:37 PM (#408254 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 1384
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Location: Ocala, Florida
Thanks!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-04 12:33 AM (#408335 - in reply to #408254)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Tonight I cut the outer skin off the left side of the parts clip and removed the wheel tub
to get this thing broken down for the parts I need. Next I will drill out the seam where the
floor pan mates up with the trunk pan/hump and get this into two pieces. The priority is
getting the rear box rail separated out from the surrounding metal, as this is an essential
piece for the body rebuild. Getting close.




(wheel tub l 1.jpg)



(wheel tub l 2.jpg)



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Attachments wheel tub l 1.jpg (63KB - 614 downloads)
Attachments wheel tub l 2.jpg (56KB - 623 downloads)
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firedome
Posted 2013-11-04 10:10 AM (#408378 - in reply to #408335)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 3153
200010001002525
Location: NY & VT
What has kept me from doing this extent of body repair is alignment precision... so much like door gaps and panel fits and water-tightness and rattles and glass fit and, and, on & on depends on getting everything just right - easy in the original factory with precision jigs, but certainly an intimidating level of difficulty facing the home-brew repairer, at least to me. Even though it's all just metal, it's how it's put together that's ultimately so critical to so many things.

Edited by firedome 2013-11-04 10:11 AM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-04 2:14 PM (#408436 - in reply to #408378)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Drilling out these welds, one gets a real hands-on idea of how much slop they allowed for in panel
alignment. It is terrible ! However, to be fair, I don't know if it made much difference
at the "performance" level you describe and wasn't engineered into it. But the overlaps and reveals
are grossly inconsistent side-to-side, and even along same seams.

Basically, using the mounted body on the frame as a reference point, I will cut the lower part of the
wheel tub out of the car at a level determined by rust and not wanting to take more out than I need to.
Since the wheel tubs are different on convertibles from about 5" up from the bottom, that line will be
somewhere in the 4-5 inch range. I will do this in sections, the rear curve being the starting point. This
allows me to use the trunk floor just aft as another reference point in locating the new metal. Once this
piece is in place, IT becomes the reference point from which the repaired trunk floor drops are now
located between the wheel tub and the rear box rail (still mounted to the frame). I will jump across to
verify this work is done correctly on the other side, and THEN go about removing the rear box rail and
replacing/grafting the new one in, to tie those side drops back in place and make the rear clip assembly
whole again. Only when the assembly is welded back together will it be cut loose from the frame mounts
to allow flex (which won't happen because it is already welded).

Panel alignment such as door reveals can be dealt with as you go. My NY'er/Adventurer project had
a terrible drivers door that was OK at the top, but overlapped the quarter at the bottom, chipping the
paint. It also had issues of being even with the quarter up high, but hung way out (gap) at the bottom.

To remedy, I took the quarter skin loose from the rocker and cut a wedge slice northbound just behind
the door jam. Mr. Sluggo persuaded the door jam forward to open that bottom gap and the slice allowed
the top to be pushed back just enough for an even reveal top-to-bottom. I used a screw to set the in-
and-out profile of the quarter skin, and welded it all back into place as it should have been.

It is rough work, but once one gets their head around the idea of sledgehammers and doing "rough
work", it isn't so bad. Working on a closed car is 100x easier than a ragtop, because the roof holds the
body in place. But even this isn't impossible. You just gotta look at it as "it's just metal" and beat it to
where you want it. Ugly as it may be, it is about my favorite part of doing a restoration.

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-09 12:51 AM (#409392 - in reply to #408436)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
I set aside the whole evening to separate the trunk pan from the floor pan and forward
area ... finally ! But the #@! shop has become so congested with "stuff" during this project
that I got distracted putting stuff away and cleaning up and next thing I know, it's 2130 !

Tomorrow night is spoken for, so maybe Sunday ?
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60 Imp
Posted 2013-11-09 12:52 AM (#409393 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible


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Location: North Australia
Hey Doc, thought you might get a kicout of this, Been looking again at the postcard thread and saw this. Note the date.
Steve.

Doctor DeSoto

Posted 2008-12-17 12:40 AM (#155789 - in reply to #155501)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards Quote Reply Alert

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suburban61 - 2008-12-16 3:06 AM


Doctor DeSoto - 2008-12-06 2:26 PM

Is it just me, of does the mismatched body panel just scream "white trash" and any and all measures should be taken immediately to get that hood painted to match ? I do not feel this way so strongly about non-finned cars, but it really bugs me to see a finned car with missing wheel covers, dirty, dented up, or with the off-color door, etc.

I see the period and the style as being such a pinnacle, or purity of style, that it just needs to be in good representative form of it looks bad. 1920's or 1940's styling, not such a big deal. Googie stuff ? Just doesn't adapt well.

I sure do enjoy this thread.




gees Doc DeS, you'd simply tear your hair out at the sight of my wagon at the moment then... lol....

*********************************

I trust you are making "every effort" to make that old tub look spiffy, right ?

Remember, I am the guy with his car in bare metal, sans nose clip, the interior piled with parts ....

It is supposed to hit 17 below zero tonight. We wrapped up the dirt work for the shop about 2 hours before the snow started falling. I really wanted to be working in the new shop this winter, but it just wasn't to be. When spring comes it will be full speed ahead ! Next winter will be spent warm and indoors, welding and fabbing the last of the metal. I want to paint the DeSoto the following summer (if not sooner) .... no more mismatched body panels !
-----
" Duty above all else except Honor "

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-09 1:19 AM (#409396 - in reply to #409393)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Uh, yeah ....

I guess this is a case of where the best laid plans go straight to hell, eh ?

Life got in the way ?

Well, at least it is moving forward now !
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60 Imp
Posted 2013-11-09 2:33 AM (#409399 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible


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It's a marathon, not a sprint! One rusty hole and spot weld at a time.


Steve.
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57Kelii
Posted 2013-11-09 6:23 AM (#409404 - in reply to #405429)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Doctor DeSoto - 2013-10-23 12:53 AM

If this were a Firedome, I would not hesitate running the dog dishies. It truly would
be unique. I don't know of a single example of a 57-61 DeSoto running doggies today,
let alone a big body, or a convertible ! But a Fireflite just would be wrong with dog
dishies as an original appearing upline car.

It will boil down to wires or custom wheels and those spinners.


You forget Nick Nichols collection? I've been eyeing that Desoto of his for about two years now. It has doggies... http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s579/57Kelii/1959%20Desoto/100_...

Edited by 57Kelii 2013-11-09 6:25 AM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-09 12:18 PM (#409434 - in reply to #409404)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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57Kelii - 2013-11-10 3:23 AM
You forget Nick Nichols collection? I've been eyeing that Desoto of his for about two years now. It has doggies... http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s579/57Kelii/1959%20Desoto/100_...

====================================================

It's not that I "forgot" Nick's stuff (he has a rough original 58 Adventurer coupe), but this
is a 59 And it is a mystery 59 with no model emblems, but Fireflite "warts" glued
on the rear quarters and a sexy brown paint job.

I don't track 59's. Hate 'em, don't want to see them, just don't like 'em. Hate the blunted
nose, hate the fins and rear end even more. Hate the idiot light dash. The only thing I like
about 59's is the cool hood latch door. Unfortunately it was used on the ugliest DeSoto from
the Forward Look era.

Did I mention I don't like them ?
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57Kelii
Posted 2013-11-09 3:22 PM (#409464 - in reply to #409434)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Doctor DeSoto - 2013-11-09 12:18 PM

57Kelii - 2013-11-10 3:23 AM
You forget Nick Nichols collection? I've been eyeing that Desoto of his for about two years now. It has doggies... http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s579/57Kelii/1959%20Desoto/100_...

====================================================

It's not that I "forgot" Nick's stuff (he has a rough original 58 Adventurer coupe), but this
is a 59 And it is a mystery 59 with no model emblems, but Fireflite "warts" glued
on the rear quarters and a sexy brown paint job.

I don't track 59's. Hate 'em, don't want to see them, just don't like 'em. Hate the blunted
nose, hate the fins and rear end even more. Hate the idiot light dash. The only thing I like
about 59's is the cool hood latch door. Unfortunately it was used on the ugliest DeSoto from
the Forward Look era.

Did I mention I don't like them ?


I know they aren't very pretty. It's a Firesweep (no front emblem) and someone decided to add some fireflite circles to the rear of the fin. I like it a bit because it's a ugly ducking, least amount of chrome so you can see the shape of the body.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-09 9:01 PM (#409518 - in reply to #409464)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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If I did not think the 57-58 DeSoto was THE best looking post war car ever built, I prolly
would not be so prejudiced against the 59. But as it worked out, they just botched the
F#K out of the something great. My pea brain just can't accept what they did.

Those dog dishies would sure look great on a 57 Firedome like this:




(CAKernvilleCozyCorner.jpg)



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57Kelii
Posted 2013-11-09 10:16 PM (#409540 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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I can't be as lucky as you Doc, find any 57-60 Desoto (or finding any under 10 k) is a bit of work, finding a coupe is really hard. That article that I showed you in the past was the perfect car...right around where I live, a coupe, perfect, just the owner wouldn't sell. Guess I'll just have to keep on the hunt! (and sell my Studebaker soon I hope)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-10 1:22 AM (#409556 - in reply to #409540)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Or get your goose built up to just pay 10K for the car you want ! These DO come up for sale, and
with every passing year they get a little harder to find and a little more expensive. The time to take
action is now. Make the commitment, kick some ass, take some names, and sock that money away
to where you are large and in charge when that car you really want comes available !

You CAN do this. If a schmuck like me can do it, anyone can ! Just make up your mind this is going
to happen and do what it takes to make it so. Make the Gunny proud.
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Powerflite
Posted 2013-11-11 1:35 PM (#409927 - in reply to #409556)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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I agree completely. Figure out what you want and can reasonably afford & at what level you can fix things on it, then go for it.

But Doc, you missed a nice feature from 1959 - swivel seats. Although at the time, that feature was quirky at best; they are definitely cool now. But what is this hood latch door you are referring to? I haven't heard of that.

Edited by Powerflite 2013-11-11 1:39 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-12 1:29 PM (#410214 - in reply to #409927)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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I would stress to anyone that to be successful in getting the car you want (versus settling for what
you can find/afford) is to turn away from the cars and focus on the self improvement needed to make
the kind of money that will put your ass in the seat of the car you want, rather than pissing away a
lifetime wishing for something that is out of reach. Where's the fun in that ?

Yeah, 59 got a few goodies like cruise control and swivels that I dig. I have a set of 59 power swivels
hanging in my rafters that *might* go in the DeSoto, but since it has power seat already, I an undecided
on that. I prefer the slimmer look of the swivels, for sure.

The 59 DeSoto and Chrysler got this groovy little spring-hinged door that pushes out of the way to
access the hood release. Swivels and cruise are nifty add-ons, but this door is an integral part of the
body of every car, and IMO, the best thing about them.
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jimntempe
Posted 2013-11-12 8:14 PM (#410349 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Everyone should max out at least one car along the way - by that I mean add every extra doodad possible, like converting manual windows to power, converting to power seats, adding the automatic day/night mirror, putting on the remote mirrors, adding the cruise control (to a car that won't see 1500 miles in a year), etc, etc, and get it out of their system. Then they can have the added pleasure of fixing all that extra stuff when something goes haywire. Did that the first time thru. Now I'm perfectly content to have plain roll up windows and manual locks and non-tilt wheel, etc. All I ask for now is PS, PB, AT, and AC as long as the car itself is the one I WANT. I wouldn't turn down all those nifty extras if they came with the car, no siree, but I'm over needing to have or add them... been there, done that.
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57Kelii
Posted 2013-11-13 6:16 AM (#410432 - in reply to #410214)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Doctor DeSoto - 2013-11-12 1:29 PM

I would stress to anyone that to be successful in getting the car you want (versus settling for what
you can find/afford) is to turn away from the cars and focus on the self improvement needed to make
the kind of money that will put your ass in the seat of the car you want, rather than pissing away a
lifetime wishing for something that is out of reach. Where's the fun in that ?

Yeah, 59 got a few goodies like cruise control and swivels that I dig. I have a set of 59 power swivels
hanging in my rafters that *might* go in the DeSoto, but since it has power seat already, I an undecided
on that. I prefer the slimmer look of the swivels, for sure.

The 59 DeSoto and Chrysler got this groovy little spring-hinged door that pushes out of the way to
access the hood release. Swivels and cruise are nifty add-ons, but this door is an integral part of the
body of every car, and IMO, the best thing about them.


Cruise was offered on '58 Chryslers and Imperials, as it was on 59, I'm not so sure about Desoto? You don't hear much talk about all those goodie options on cars, but then again, most cars didn't have them. Cruise control is honestly only good for low traffic freeways and long trips across the country
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-13 11:09 AM (#410465 - in reply to #410432)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Most of these goodies aren't worth a sh!t beyond the "OMG!" factor of having them.

I mean, really .... a Highway Hi-Fi ? Steering wheel clock ? Traffic light viewer ? Certified speedo ?

Power windows are my personal "favorite" option. Highly functional and well used. I had
swivels in my 60 DeSoto and used them, but it wasn't any big advantage over a standard seat.

Rear antennas are mandatory, as are twin mirrors, and proper Super Cushion whitewalls for
appearance. None of which are that functional. The car would go down the road quite well
without them. I just want "that look". Same for the first mentioned stuff. Most people have
never seen a car like mine, and likely will never see another. They peer inside and see that
traffic light viewer (the most commonly asked about widget on the car) and scratch their heads.

Isn't that half the point of driving an old car like ours ?
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christine-lover
Posted 2013-11-13 12:04 PM (#410476 - in reply to #410465)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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I had a traffic light viewer in my Edsel Conv. It was good to have because of the windshield design. These FLs have that beautiful bubble (most) windshield and its higher. Does a traffic light viewer help anymore on these cars?
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The Chrysler Kid
Posted 2013-11-13 9:33 PM (#410596 - in reply to #410476)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Does a highway hifi really work? Does it skip when you hit a bump?
Or are they just supposed to be used while parked? Sorry for all the questions.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-13 11:04 PM (#410604 - in reply to #410476)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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One must remember that until the 70's, there were lots of street lights on the CLOSE side of the
intersection, whereas today it is mandated they be located at the far side of the intersection. But
with them on the close side, the driver of a car in the "pole position" could not see the light. This
was especially true of early 50's cars with visors. In fact, most traffic light viewers were sold on
those cars. I find the TLV works great for creating puzzled looks and questions from clueless types.

The Hi-Fi worked reasonably well when going down the road. The primary downfall of the idea
was RCA's failure to follow through with providing new release/contemporary music for them. The
library of records is very limited. The later units played 45 rpm singles. I've never had any interest
in these, but presume they worked as well for tracking as the 16 rpm units.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-14 11:22 AM (#410656 - in reply to #410604)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
I had the chance to toss a few more hours at the project a couple nights back, but have been too
busy to post the pix.

I began by drilling out the spot welds in the seam that connects the floor pan with the trunk pan
and separating the two. I hung the front part from the rafters to get it out of my way and continued
on getting the trunk pan cleaned of all its excess metal. The rear box rail needed to be drilled out
and separated from the bumper backing panel. With this backing panel removed, all I have left is
the side drop and it is ready to be chopped, repaired and used in the 58.




(trunk pan rplmt 1.jpg)



(trunk pan rplmt 2.jpg)



(trunk pan rplmt 3.jpg)



(trunk pan rplmt 4.jpg)



(trunk pan rplmt 5.jpg)



(trunk pan rplmt 6.jpg)



(trunk pan rplmt 7.jpg)



(trunk pan rplmt 8.jpg)



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57Kelii
Posted 2013-11-14 3:00 PM (#410694 - in reply to #410656)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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That much closer keep up the good work
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hemidenis
Posted 2013-11-14 6:01 PM (#410735 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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oh my god Doc I was not kidding: I don't have the Frankenstein machine to positioning all this back for re-weld it", I repeat I was kidding I don't have the 1961 either
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firedome
Posted 2013-11-14 9:00 PM (#410782 - in reply to #410735)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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I agree with Doc that if you want a specific car you better to go for it, or you will forever regret it, but just don't do as I did circa 1985, and hold out for a '58 Adventurer convert... unless you are Warren Buffet, or a facsimile thereof, it's just not gonna happen!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-14 11:48 PM (#410799 - in reply to #410782)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Roger,

Did you ever catch wind of the Adventurer convertible in the wrecking yard in Virginia ?
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firedome
Posted 2013-11-15 10:54 AM (#410849 - in reply to #410799)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Holy moly, when was that?? Cripes I lived in MD from 1950 to 1998, and would have turned over heaven and earth for one in VA, got a 58 Royal in S VA around then... but my contacts and networks weren't good back then, mostly WPC, OCW, Hemmings, some word of mouth, huge Mopar guys like Don Rook in PA (got 62 Polara 500 convert from him, and he had loads of 300 letter cars) and Ron Wenger also in PA, who sourced my 300 convert and bought my 58 NYer (it may have gone from him straight to Sweden)... Ohhh... can't believe I was maybe that close to my ultimate car.. please tell me it was an unrestorable, rusted out, missing 50% parts, junk heap that needed to be and was scrapped! (after useable parts removed of course).

Edited by firedome 2013-11-15 10:57 AM
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57burb
Posted 2013-11-15 11:33 AM (#410856 - in reply to #410849)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Hey Doc, posted this screen grab in the random pics thread. Thought you would see it (and enjoy it) here as well.

A '58 Desoto convertible - a Firesweep, with dog dishes, and in your favorite colors! What an odd duck.



(58_sweep_convertible_nbc_los_angeles.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-15 11:58 AM (#410865 - in reply to #410849)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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It was a black and gold car. Missing seats, top mechanism and all convertible trim, as well as
all Adventurer trim. I got it on pallets, as it was so rusty. In fact, the yard owner told me it came
into the yard in 1963 after the car collapsed in the middle from rust. Is that "shot" enough to put
your mind at ease ? I got a cowl, a tub well, and the center of the frame to start that build with.

I took a 58 Firedome coupe frame and refit the X-member as the base. My first FL'er (57 NY'er
coupe became the body donor. It looked like a nice, solid car by the time I was gave it up, but still
needed top, power seats, power windows and a few other unobtainium pieces to be complete again.
I was struggling with how to replace the VIN tag (which left VA, but was missing when the cowl
arrived in Seattle) when my Fireflite came available. After years and years of an impossible search,
I jumped at the chance to have a turnkey car, even if it was a polished turd, and sold the Adventurer
project. I believe it was 1986 when I got the Adventurer out of VA. I can't remember HOW I found
it. I had the same networking challenges you did, but worked every angle I could think of to find
convertibles and parts to build one of these.

I was a fool. Should have dumped my energy into a stiff degree and come out of the batting cage
swinging a money stick. I would be 100x better off today. Stupid kid.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-15 12:05 PM (#410871 - in reply to #410865)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
Danny ~

Someone posted that movie clip a while back. That IS a really weird car equipped that way. One
might think "Why bother ?", but clearly someone wanted a ragtop "DeSoto" REAL bad, but was none
too concerned about flash or anything besides the top going down. I almost bought a comparable
stripper at the Sacto Nat'l meet years ago. It was all white, no sweep (top bar only), with a black
top and all-vinyl black interior. I am pretty sure it had full face wheel covers though. Oh, .... and
it was equipped with a Powerflite ! It was a complete car for $1500. Wish I'd stuck it away somewhere !
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Chrys 68
Posted 2013-11-24 4:43 PM (#412699 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Interesting pictures! Continue in this way.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-24 8:53 PM (#412764 - in reply to #412699)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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It has been WAY below freezing this past ten days, so work in the unheated shop kind of grinds
to a stop when it gets this cold. More as time and temps allow.

Did I mention I am trying to find a job, write a book, unpack my mothballed life, AND work on
the old DeSoto all at the same time ?
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Powerflite
Posted 2013-11-25 10:18 AM (#412832 - in reply to #412764)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Before I moved to the land of sun and heat, I always envisioned a garage with a wood burning stove in it. I grew up with one in my parents house and that thing was cheap to burn and heated up the place much faster than a furnace. What is your book about?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-25 12:33 PM (#412854 - in reply to #412832)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
My shop has 26' high ceilings, no insulation (yet), on a 30'x36' footprint. It would be a losing
battle to think you would ever feel any heat unless you were hovered over the stove. As such,
the stove just sits in a corner awaiting further completion of the building to allow it to be effective.

You just HAD to ask about the book .... OK, ... it is about CD 102 Brookfield SKEBs. The effort
is to chronicle mold types, reworks/repairs, and tie it all together to support a thesis of company
history from about 1896 to 1921. Pretty exciting, huh ?

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57burb
Posted 2013-11-25 2:55 PM (#412884 - in reply to #412854)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Glass insulators?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-11-25 3:21 PM (#412890 - in reply to #412884)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Yup.
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The Chrysler Kid
Posted 2013-12-05 3:25 PM (#414519 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Is this your fireflite from awhile back? I saw it in a car book.

Edited by The Chrysler Kid 2013-12-05 3:26 PM




(std_1958_desoto_fireflite_convertible.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-12-05 5:41 PM (#414554 - in reply to #414519)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Yup.
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The Chrysler Kid
Posted 2013-12-05 6:43 PM (#414565 - in reply to #414554)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Nice!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-12-05 7:40 PM (#414578 - in reply to #414565)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Not bad looking for a rust bucket parts car, is it ?
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firedome
Posted 2013-12-06 10:12 AM (#414673 - in reply to #414578)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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What color was (is) that? Like it.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-12-06 1:43 PM (#414710 - in reply to #414673)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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That is Haze Blue Metallic, with Arctic White sweep, Sir. The blue is a pretty color, but I
find the white accent too predictable and boring. Charcoal, black, or perhaps a dark blue
would have livened things up a bit. The downer for me on this color is the combination of
it with the mandatory grey interior. I like "warm" colors, and this car was anything but "warm"
looking. Even in a turquoise - traditionally a "cool" color - it would have more of a warm
feel. As it was, it looks like an iceberg.



(Alex's pics 028.jpg)



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christine-lover
Posted 2013-12-06 6:16 PM (#414802 - in reply to #414710)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Yeah, they look about the same.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-12-06 10:48 PM (#414852 - in reply to #414802)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Speaking of cold, today's high was 16 degrees, fahrenheit. Right now it is 12. The poor old
DeSoto is going to have to wait until it warms up to push forward.
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57Kelii
Posted 2013-12-08 6:39 AM (#415076 - in reply to #414852)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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12?....and here everyone complains how chilly it is getting into the low 60's during the day
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-12-08 7:46 PM (#415195 - in reply to #415076)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
This AM, it was 04 !!!! The day's high was 16 !
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ttotired
Posted 2013-12-08 10:53 PM (#415218 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert 5K+

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Location: Perth Australia
Come on Doc

Chuck a few layers on and get out there

Wheres your get up and go??? (got up and went?????)

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Powerflite
Posted 2013-12-08 11:35 PM (#415225 - in reply to #415218)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert 5K+

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Location: So. Cal
This is my first car. I transplanted a 392 hemi into it mid winter without a garage. That was fun. Having a nice garage to work in, you wouldn't get to have as much fun as I did though. I was 16 then. I am content to be a wimp in my old age.

Edited by Powerflite 2013-12-08 11:41 PM




(68CudaSnow.jpg)



(68CudaHemi.jpg)



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Attachments 68CudaSnow.jpg (84KB - 653 downloads)
Attachments 68CudaHemi.jpg (108KB - 667 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-12-09 12:09 AM (#415232 - in reply to #415218)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
ttotired - 2013-12-09 7:53 PM
Wheres your get up and go??? (got up and went?????)


------------------------------------------------

" ... I am content to be a wimp in my old age."

===================================

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. When the fingers are too numb to feel the hammer
hitting them ..... yeah.

But hey, .... it is supposed to break out above freezing at the end of next week ! Put on
my swimming trunks and head for the river !


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Chrys 68
Posted 2013-12-09 5:30 PM (#415356 - in reply to #415232)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Elite Veteran

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Location: Malung, SWEDEN
Doc, as you know , we are always a little worse over here. -5,8 at the moment....
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-12-09 6:55 PM (#415376 - in reply to #415356)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Are you counting off in Fahrenheit or Celcius ? 04f is equal to -15.5c !!!!

But the key question here is, ... did you get your walls insulated and heat installed before it got
cold ?

My jones is I have a 30 x 40 footprint with 30 foot high ceilings and nothing but sheeting on the
walls. Any heat I make will go straight to 30 feet and out the gable vents. The best I could hope
for is having a heat source to go stand next to when I lose all feeling in my extremities !

It will warm up. I have been neglectfully patient for all these years. This can wait here and there
to deal with the weather.


Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2013-12-09 7:01 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-12-22 10:34 PM (#417919 - in reply to #415376)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Spent a few hours over the past week as time allowed reorganizing stuff to clear the floor.
Built some riser blocks to support the jackstands and got the car about four feet off the ground
to better access the metal work I will attack next.




(3rd member rear 2013 Dec.jpg)



(side shot raised for metal work 2013 Dec.jpg)



(fins up raised for metal work 2013 Dec.jpg)



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Attachments 3rd member rear 2013 Dec.jpg (53KB - 687 downloads)
Attachments side shot raised for metal work 2013 Dec.jpg (60KB - 680 downloads)
Attachments fins up raised for metal work 2013 Dec.jpg (57KB - 666 downloads)
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firedome
Posted 2013-12-23 11:20 AM (#417982 - in reply to #417919)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: NY & VT
Why such high ceiling... lift? 2nd story? both?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-12-23 12:48 PM (#418008 - in reply to #417982)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
A lift will go where the DeSoto is now standing. Half this area has a 2nd floor ... 36 x 15.
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hemidenis
Posted 2014-01-08 10:07 AM (#420956 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Northen Virginia
Doc, is not snow and cold is actually sand and heat!
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The Chrysler Kid
Posted 2014-02-12 8:43 PM (#427081 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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It's so cool to see such a rare car like that dusty in a barn I love that photo!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-02-13 1:14 AM (#427110 - in reply to #427081)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
I've had some people get pretty angry with me for "not doing anything" with this car.

I guess this is where the normal car-mentality and mine part company. I love barn cars and field finds.
I enjoy this car as it sits as much as I would having it finished. It is simply "there" ... a piece of impossible
Americana, a sculptural icon of the greatest time in American 20th century. It's just plain ART, and the
patina is every bit as striking as a flawless paint job. Who else can walk into their barn and see something
like this any time they want ?

Maybe I am weird ? I know I am. Always have been. I am happy that way.

The weather jumped from frozen and snow to soggy muck and sunshine overnight. It was SO tempting to
blow off work and go play in the shop with the sun streaming in the open doors. But alas, I took the responsible
route and got my sorry ass to work. Maybe this weekend it will still be nice ??? The nice thing now is the car
is clear and up in the air and ready to be worked on at a moment's notice.
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firedome
Posted 2014-02-15 12:44 PM (#427447 - in reply to #427110)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 3153
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Location: NY & VT
I feel exactly the same... I can just sit on my folding garage chair and look at it for hours, and sometimes I do. That old 1970s book "Rolling Sculpture" about Gordon Buehrig's designs sums up in my mind how these cars ought to be appreciated. What makes them even more special is that they uniquely combine one of mankind's most beautiful accomplishments with one of it's most influential.

Finally, it is slated here to hit mid-40 temperatures for the end of this week... that will feel downright tropical after what we've experienced.

Looks like a massive double squirrel cage blower in that one side of car pic, if that's part of the heating plant you've got planned it ought to be able to about run you outta there.

Edited by firedome 2014-02-15 12:54 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-02-15 2:32 PM (#427461 - in reply to #427447)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
The fan is slated for my paint booth to evacuate airborne particulates.
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The Adventurer
Posted 2014-02-16 7:14 AM (#427548 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed

Posts: 1028
100025
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Ah finally found your Desoto Thread , Wow what a rare car . Very lucky to have that , but I know you have already said that ! Keep up the good work .
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-02-16 2:40 PM (#427594 - in reply to #427548)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Back when I got into FL cars, they could be had for little-to-nothing. They were scarce, compared to
GM and Ford products, but a hound dog could flush them out. I went through a lot of them in the early
days, and slowly my taste refined to wanting this very specific year, make, and model. Personally, I
think it is the best post-war car ever built for styling, mechanicals, and reliability. It is just a flat-out
stunning design. That's MY whacko opinion ...

Finding one proved a years-long study in wild goose chases, dead end leads, and expensive long distance
phone bills/road trips. And this was BEFORE all the overseas enthusiasts got to exporting them and they
COULD be found. I am the luckiest SOB on earth to have found one and hung onto it. Rare yes. I wish
it wasn't. I'm not into this for rarity. I'd like to see them all over the roads just because I love the design.
It would make it a whole lot easier to find or market repop parts too. I drove the wheels off my DeSoto's
before, and I will do it again as they get restored.

There is nothing quite like the feeling of piloting a car like this down the old two-laners on your way to
the backwaters of America. Even just staring at it sitting in the barn is a wonderful experience. To this
weirdo, THAT is what it is all about !

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The Adventurer
Posted 2014-02-16 4:57 PM (#427607 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed

Posts: 1028
100025
Location: Melbourne, Australia
You don't need to tell me about 58 desotos , I am totally like you about how the look and make you feel ! And agree that you get to a point where you want a specific car , and good on you for having the foresight to realise these great cars years ago and do the hard work , as you got one of the few left .
But for me it gets a lot harder being in Australia and it being 2014 . I just wanted a 58 FF Coupe , and I hate red like you also so that SS the other day for $18000 if I saw it in time would have been tempting but annoying . And that willow green one of ebay a few years ago I just didn't like something about that car . So anyway I have to settle for a 58 Dome coupe now which still looks the same and is probably a little easier to restore and the trim inside is simpler , but I will keep looking !
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60 Imp
Posted 2014-02-18 6:38 AM (#427817 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible


2000100050025
Location: North Australia
Oh no. Now we got 58 Desoto weirdo's crawling out of the wood pile in BOTH hemispheres

Steve.
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henricthornsund
Posted 2014-02-18 8:49 AM (#427824 - in reply to #427817)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



50010025
Location: Sweden
60 Imp - 2014-02-19 12:38 AM

Oh no. Now we got 58 Desoto weirdo's crawling out of the wood pile in BOTH hemispheres

Steve.


ROFL !
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-02-18 1:36 PM (#427856 - in reply to #427824)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Mental illness knows no boundaries, my friends.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-05-04 1:19 AM (#439193 - in reply to #427856)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Been trying to get back on the DeSoto project now for a couple weeks and something always
seems to come up. Today, I built some tracks out of 3x3 aluminum angle bar to hoist the power
swivel seat set up to the rafters, and set upon cleaning up the passenger side wheel tub for cutting
and patching of rust there. It became clear that I need photos of what the original contour is supposed
to look like, as previous "fixes" have altered that is going on there.

So, I posted a note asking for pix on the Jan Fridberg thread upstairs to see if someone can post some
from those similar cars.

Maybe tomorrow ?

In the meantime, I am in the mood and we're going to start pushing this through !
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-05-05 1:30 AM (#439341 - in reply to #439193)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
First photo shows how the previous "craftsmen" cobbed the trunk pan extension together and
lopped the bottom of the wheel tub off square with the horizontal line of the trunk pan.

Another shows this material removed.

The rest show the replacement "core" being cleaned up and pounded back into the proper shape.
As this is a 59 piece, it has a goofy tail at the rear that I will cut to fit. Overall, the piece is about 1"
longer than the space existing for it. I am now researching just what that distance should be to see
if my rear box rail is in the wrong place, or my 59 replacement piece is longer than a stock 57-58
unit.

Once fit, I will chop the rust out of the new piece and patch some solid metal in.



(trunk pan extension r old.jpg)



(trunk pan removed r.jpg)



(trunk pan extension new 1.jpg)



(trunk pan ext r new 2.jpg)



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Attachments trunk pan extension r old.jpg (42KB - 638 downloads)
Attachments trunk pan removed r.jpg (64KB - 629 downloads)
Attachments trunk pan extension new 1.jpg (64KB - 615 downloads)
Attachments trunk pan ext r new 2.jpg (71KB - 661 downloads)
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henricthornsund
Posted 2014-05-06 3:40 PM (#439566 - in reply to #439341)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



50010025
Location: Sweden
Nice to see some progress! I read somewhere that you are in the process of selling the DeSoto to Sweden, is that true?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-05-06 9:51 PM (#439661 - in reply to #439566)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
You know it ! ... I have a strong interest in selling off my American heritage. Replace it with
chinese trinkets and import cars. Yeah ...
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henricthornsund
Posted 2014-05-07 11:29 AM (#439750 - in reply to #439661)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



50010025
Location: Sweden
It is only a matter of time
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Chrys 68
Posted 2014-05-07 2:33 PM (#439787 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Elite Veteran

Posts: 673
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Location: Malung, SWEDEN
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57Kelii
Posted 2014-05-08 12:56 PM (#439943 - in reply to #439787)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Elite Veteran

Posts: 691
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Location: Los Angeles, California
Be very careful of your tool Doc....don't want it falling intothe wrong hands Maybe I should start saving to keep it here.....
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2014-05-09 1:19 AM (#440005 - in reply to #439943)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Gunny put a boot up my ass. I tore into it. First pic shows the rotted rear tub. The bottom
profile is trimmed wrong, and the outer wheel lip was cut away, so I cut my replacement panel
extra large to align the profile farther up as a matter of reference. Second shot is cutting the
replacement panel. I decided to leave some of the wheel lip with this piece, as I think it will aid
in aligning the lip to the proper elevation for later steps in locating the rest of the tub lip edge.

Last shot shows fitting the new panel into place. I will outline the cut profile onto the old tub
and begin chopping out the rusty areas and slowly winnow both down to a perfect fit. The out-
ward seam of the convertible tub may require a little "dart" removal and insert to angle the non-
convertible tub seam to match. it is a slow process, but with solid replacement panels, it goes
in pretty easy. Some of this new metal is as bad as the old and will require either whining to Big M
or doing some fab work.



(tub r rear rust.jpg)



(tub r rear patch cutting.jpg)



(tub r patch fitting.jpg)



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Attachments tub r rear rust.jpg (57KB - 638 downloads)
Attachments tub r rear patch cutting.jpg (44KB - 669 downloads)
Attachments tub r patch fitting.jpg (59KB - 693 downloads)
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60 Imp
Posted 2014-05-10 6:48 PM (#440207 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible


2000100050025
Location: North Australia
About time you got going again on that old basket case! Did the missus push you out into the shed?
Keep at it man, one bite at a time.

Steve.
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Windsor59
Posted 2016-05-11 5:19 AM (#511237 - in reply to #440207)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 2596
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Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden
Hello
What about Fireflight 58 conv. Has something happened recently. Read through the thread recently. became curious.
The funny thing is that there is a genuine conv made order. (No clone here)
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hemidenis
Posted 2016-05-11 8:51 AM (#511250 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 3887
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Location: Northen Virginia
me too, I recall it actually belonged to a university professor?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2016-05-12 2:11 AM (#511358 - in reply to #511250)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
I have spent the last year focusing more on getting the shop organized, putting
things back into service, rather than stored and taking up space ... you know the
drill, and the big push this summer-fall will be to finish the top floor of the front
half of the building, so it is finally done to a point I can move my machinery upstairs
and have the floors clear to work on the cars. This will allow me to pour concrete
in the back half and get a lift in place and really establish some specialized work
areas for welding, mechanical, etc. It all takes time and money ...

This year I had heat in the place for the first winter, so I got a lot more done during
those months when I have normally been s**t down for 4 months when it is just too
cold to be outside .... numb fingers make for miserable working conditions ! Next
winter will be nice. With every project I get done, it just snowballs into a nicer and
nicer place.

I am currently repairing a roof problem on the house (with 12' of rafters removed)
in a mad dash to get this project off my plate before the real dry season gets here,
as I want no distractions when I peel back the tarps and open the shop "top" to the
elements. That will be one of those jobs like pouring concrete, .... there will be no
break until it is all done and I have a permanent roof overhead .... and it will be a
BIG job !

And so the cars kind of sit. I fiddle with this or that and get the parts hung up and
organized so they don't get lost. The nice part about the DeSoto is that it is at that
weld and fabrication stage, so it is easy to back off and pick right back up where I
left it.

Yes, the car was a corporate "special use" car of some sort .... code 89041, whatever
that was, .... and it's first non-corp owner was a college professor that owned the car
from 1960 to 1983.
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hemidenis
Posted 2016-05-14 2:40 PM (#511559 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 3887
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Location: Northen Virginia
Special car indeed. I have to say that I was looking for the DESOTO in pictures of the antique "space" age lamps of your living-room... but No Fireflite...
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2016-05-14 9:48 PM (#511588 - in reply to #511559)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
No cars in the living room, sorry ....

If you like the lamps, you're going to love the bathroom I am building. Look for it
in the Making Neil Proud thread as it comes together. Currently rolling rafters for the
roof.
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Chrys 68
Posted 2016-11-29 3:08 PM (#527489 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Elite Veteran

Posts: 673
5001002525
Location: Malung, SWEDEN

Hi Doc! How is it in the shop? I´m curious  to know if something new has happened with the DeSoto.

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hemidenis
Posted 2016-11-29 8:50 PM (#527506 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 3887
20001000500100100100252525
Location: Northen Virginia
me too, last time we saw it it was in pieces...
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2016-11-30 2:02 AM (#527523 - in reply to #527506)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
I got a roof on the shop the first Sunday in November (after the wettest
October on record ! )

The DeSoto is happily sitting there as always. It is broken down a little, ...
the fenders are off, and the rear is still not emtirely back together. With the
new 2nd floor on the shop, much of the "clutter" on the 1st floor can/has been
organized and put away, allowing much more free space to work on the cars.
I have heat and a roof over me, so now I can work on whatever I want WHEN
I want !

I spent tonight putting the transmission together on my Model T. Got as far
as the bands and triple gears. Will probably finish that project next Tuesday
night ? I really want to have that truck ready to go play next summer, so that
is my car priority. But I am sure the DeSoto and Plaza will get some attention
over the winter. The Plaza is ready for final body work and the DeSoto is mid-
project on wheel tub/lower 1/4 reconstruction of the passenger side, ... easy
to pick up at any point to continue.

I'll post pix when I get to working on it.


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60 Imp
Posted 2016-12-02 5:56 AM (#527713 - in reply to #527523)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible


2000100050025
Location: North Australia
Good work Doctor.
It's good when a plan comes together. I am keen to see your handiwork, F0rd, barn and bathroom all.

Steve.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2016-12-02 1:03 PM (#527732 - in reply to #527713)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
This is a late season street photo of the shop. Whole 2nd floor over
the front half of the building was built this year. A low pitch temporary
roof will kee the elements out for this winter. Next summer I'll build
the eleborate permanent roof.

The bathroom involves a reversal of the old 12/12 pitch roof to a 2/12
"flying V" type. The long range plan is the do the whole house like this,
with a 1/12 downslope on the other side. Being a bath, I only used clere-
-story windows for light. The rest would be more open. I am currently
fabricating counter supports to hold the free-flying countertop. That set,
I can make hard plans for outlet locations, mirror, and tile. It will all be
no-hold-barred Googie, so exacting plans and measurements are critical.

The old truck engine is moving along nicely.




(shoptemproof16oct 2016.jpg)



(DSC04661.jpg)



(DSC04659.jpg)



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Attachments shoptemproof16oct 2016.jpg (94KB - 652 downloads)
Attachments DSC04661.jpg (88KB - 633 downloads)
Attachments DSC04659.jpg (98KB - 624 downloads)
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60 Imp
Posted 2016-12-12 6:44 AM (#528465 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: RE: 1958 Fireflite Convertible


2000100050025
Location: North Australia
Some nice looking work there Amigo. What is the plan with the Big Block 4 cylinder?

I hear the weather is cooling off a bit?? Better get her finished and haul some wood maybe?



Steve.

Edited by 60 Imp 2016-12-12 6:46 AM
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hemidenis
Posted 2016-12-12 7:59 AM (#528469 - in reply to #386187)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



Expert

Posts: 3887
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Location: Northen Virginia
Model T, Plaza, Fireflite, Shop construction, darn... that got to be a chunk of change like Jay Leno's Garage budget!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2016-12-12 8:09 PM (#528513 - in reply to #528469)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Lumber is cheap, compared to hiring the work done. My hired
hand hasn't been paid in 50+ years and it seems just letting him
hang around this old stuff is payment enough.

Same thing goes for the work on the cars. Do it yourself, it isn't
that much money out of pocket.

The four-banger is a stock Model T engine (the original) from my
truck. I blasted No.1 and 2 rod bearings in it last year while hauling
a very heavy load of paving bricks. The front oiler catch funnel had
plugged up with cast off fuzz from the bands and starved the front
for oil. No damage was done, but I stuffed a spare engine in it and
began work to build the engine for speed/power. Changing out the
rear gears and adding an overdrive transmission, I will take it from
a 20mph max vehicle to a 55mph vehicle. Not that I'd ever want to
go that fast in that truck (limited braking potential), but for open road
excusions it might be nice to pull 45 or so.

Cooling off ? We were down in the single digits (fahrenheit) last week
and are going there again tomorrow. That's OK. I have heat and a roof
over head. It isn't done yet, but it works !



Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2016-12-12 8:12 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-04-18 1:15 AM (#538288 - in reply to #528513)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Well, it is spring and plans keep pushing forward. The bathroom is
plumbed, wired, insulated, sheetrocked, finished, painted, and today
I will order floor tiles and the glass shower tile shortly.

The engine was completed and run on the test stand about 8 weeks
ago. With the balance (they were not balanced originally), it ran SO
smooth. Real happy.

With that done, I revisited the partially rebuilt rear end and got it
finished. Pulled the old rear end from the truck yesterday. I can swap
a Forward Look rear end in 2 hours. This one took all day just to get
it out. Rather complicated.

While the Forward Look cars remain out there a few large steps, the
steps before them keep getting picked away and they keep getting
closer to the front burner.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-09-09 11:43 AM (#548036 - in reply to #538288)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000200020005001002525
Location: The Mile High City
Alrighty Doc: give us an update and let us discuss. Has the Fireflite flame dimmed a bit? What's going on?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-09-09 1:14 PM (#548043 - in reply to #548036)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
It was always my dream to drive the wheels off the DeSoto. But
having already had it hit by a crackhead driver, leaving me entirely
on the hook for repair costs, and the ever escalating value of the car,
cost (or outright inability to get parts) and I am growing less and
less enthusiastic about restoring it, only to place it out on the roads
again to either get it hit once more or have parts stolen off it, should
I leave it parked somewhere. How secure do you think a 58 Fireflite
convertible would be, left at the Hanc0ck trailhead for a day, while
I hike up to Alpine Tunnel ??? Or out in the middle of nowhere in
Wyoming, while I go dig along the old Transcontinental railroad ???
These are the things I want to do with the car. I have no interest
in hanging around car shows or keeping a six-figure paperweight
around to hold down the shop floor. I'd rather see someone else
get some pleasure out of owning it.

It seems the car show and "collection" guys have finally won the
game, and while I fantazised of bucking the trend, it looks like all
these incredible rarities are destined for museum status and will
never be regular drivers again. I think it is time.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-09-09 8:25 PM (#548071 - in reply to #548043)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: The Mile High City
Doc, while I can sympathize with you about the crack-head drivers (see several threads), I don't think you have to worry much about thieves either making off with the De Soto or stealing parts from it. Like you, I much prefer the drive to the show. I've taken the family on several trips and I regularly take the car to the mountains. People don't mess with it. They like to check it out.

The crack-heads are an ever increasing worry, especially with the cell phone use - but I just try to stay on the two-lanes as much as I can. I tell you what: I think you need your batteries recharged. Why don't you come out to Denver next summer and we can drive the De Soto a good long ways. That might do the trick!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-09-11 12:15 AM (#548127 - in reply to #548071)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: Parts Unknown
As much as I love the car as rolling art and for the rarity and
incredible design, I really want to stick a manual trans in it and
other things that really go against my better senses about what
a special car should have. I already have that in my Coronet,
and the Plaza fills the special "fin need". I have a shop/house
to finish and so many other projects. It boils down to a quality
vs. quantity argument, and kinda like giving up one's child for
adoption as the best future for the kid, I think the DeSoto would
be better off as a rare historic vehicle in the hands of someone
who would restore it properly. At 56, how many vehicles and
houses and other things can I afford the time and money to
restore and then actually go enjoy them ?
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-09-12 9:06 PM (#548258 - in reply to #548127)
Subject: Re: 1958 Fireflite Convertible



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Location: The Mile High City
Doctor DeSoto - 2017-09-10 10:15 PM

At 56, how many vehicles and
houses and other things can I afford the time and money to
restore and then actually go enjoy them ?


Looking at Magnus' thread, you can do a lot with your time, Doc.
In the end, the De Soto is just an object. It is not a child, it is not a love.
I guess if it is time to let it go, so be it. Get it done quick and complete, though.
If it is just not time, you seem to have the room. Enjoy it as much as you can.
It is a tough call. The offer stands, though.
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