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Posts: 59
| After responding to the thread of gen III hemi's in forwardlookers, I sent a couple of responders photos of my car. One of them suggested that others on the site might be interested in what I'm doing, and that he would post the photos if I started a new thread. The nightmare stories of posting pictures here have always scared me off, but if all goes well, and thanks to Donr here goes! Let me know what you think, and if anybody has questions just ask and I'll do my best to answer! |
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Expert
Posts: 2490
 
Location: Kansas City, KS | Here's Mike's pictures with his comments
Engine and transmission as delivered
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Same again from the front
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Engine going in still connected to transmission
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Engine and transmission in place on wooden blocks
Edited by KcImperial 2013-04-24 11:40 PM
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | ’57 transmission cut in 3 to rotate center section 90 degrees to clear tranny
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Computer that came with engine. I later had to buy harness for missing plug.
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Connector that I needed mate for.
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Engine mounts. Note how they are offset. I had to build around suspension horns on pass. side
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Close up of pass side engine mount. I used spool type mounts from Transdapt. Eurothene bushings go in the spools.
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | I used a shifter from a ’06 Charger R/T, but I think a V6 one would have worked better.
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Engine bay painted. Note how I cut the radiator header to make getting engine in easier, with no scratches.
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Close up of drivers mount on top of cut down factory bracket.
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Close up of what I tabbed to clear suspension horn on pass. side
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Remote oil filter and shield. I didn't use this in the end. I used an angled adapter from a 4X4 truck
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | I extended the Transdapt engine mount and added the web for support. Needed on drivers side only.
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Milodon oil pan with modified drain plug to clear center link in straight ahead position, and engine mount.
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Extended engine mount on drivers side.
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Modified transmission cross member
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Engine in. It's a tight fit between front cross member and center link in straight ahead position. go as far forward as you can.
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | I had to remove power steering pump and trim it's reservoir. Also had to trim battery tray.
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Room for steering box, but not for late model power booster.
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Dive by wire gas pedal from '06 Charger R/T.
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Ready to drive!
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Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | Mike - Thanks for sharing all of this with us. I hope I got everything posted in order correctly for you. |
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Regular
Posts: 59
| Thanks Don, I appreciate the help! |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | Amazing! great job of fabrication. Not many folks know how to do that..................MO |
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Posts: 3575
 
Location: Netherlands | Nice work!
I don't like that shifter myself, unless you manage to 'vintagefy' it, but I see you have newer seats in the car aswell.
Why not keep the pushbuttons working?
Do a google search on those cheap FRAM filters. You'll find you want to change it for something better.
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Regular
Posts: 59
| Thanks for the compliments. As far as the shifter goes, I always wanted a car with a Hemi, big fins and a push button shifter, but when I made the decision to go with the gen III, I just couldn't figure out how to keep them. I'd already made the center consoles to go between the front and rear bucket seats, so decided to modify the front console and go with the shifter. The overall theme of the car is a mix of modern and old in a mild custom, so I've got used to it now. |
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Expert
Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | Nice work! That looks like a surprisingly hard job, considering that engine bay is capable of holding a 392. 
There are a couple of vendors out there that have electronic controlled pushbutton shifters for any automatic transmission.
http://www.rodauthority.com/features/sema-coverage-features/sema-20... |
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Expert
Posts: 3575
Location: Netherlands | coops - 2013-04-25 12:53 PM
...I always wanted a car with a Hemi, big fins and a push button shifter, ...
You're not alone 
I don't know how these 'new-car' shifters work but are they fully electronic, or do they still work with a cable?
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Regular
Posts: 59
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I don't know how these 'new-car' shifters work but are they fully electronic, or do they still work with a cable?
They operate from a single cable to a splined lever on the transmission, sounds easy but even that caused headaches as the spacing between the detents on the shifter and the gear stop spacing on the transmission are different. |
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Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | Good thing that radiator support is not a structural member.... |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7807
Location: Williams California | Nice job on the fitment, Mike.
---John |
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Posts: 3577
Location: Blythewood, SC | Did you sort out the wiring yourself or did you use a new harness? I was under the impression that the body management computer was built into the ECM and you had to sort out most of the wiring to use a stock ECM. |
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Posts: 1493
Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | Wow that's impressive. I've seen this kind of a mod with crate engines using carbs, but how do you deal with all the sensors and stuff? There must be O2 sensors and all that?
Edited by JT Vincent 2013-04-30 3:14 PM
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Regular
Posts: 59
| Brian, answering your question regarding the wiring, I used an EZ wiring harness combined with the factory harness that I bought with the engine and transmission. After the engine was in I started trying to figure out what I needed to wire the car, and realized that I needed the factory harness that plugs into the big plug shown in pictures 10 and 11 in order to get the drive by wire gas pedal hooked up and it gave me a diagnostic port to read codes. It also filled the missing connector on the ECM. I got one from a junk yard. I thought I may need about 12 wires of the 50 or so in the harness, but I ended up using about 44 of them! I was lucky to be pointed in the direction of a service advisor at my local Dodge dealer who loves doing this kind of thing as a hobby. He came to my house and spent time with me labeling every wire from the factory harness and identifying where to connect to on the EZ harness, including what relays to put where. He was an absolute lifesaver for both the car and myself! I haven't read any codes as of yet, but hope to get to that soon. The car starts first time every time and drives around my sub-division pretty nicely, but the pedal has to be told where 0 and WOT are, so it should get better.
Jon, as I eluded to in answering Brian's question all the sensors and wiring for them were self contained in the package as it came from the wrecked truck, and all I needed to do was make the bridge from the big harness plug to the EZ harness. As for o2 sensors, the truck had 4 of them. 2 upstream of the cats and 2 downstream of them. Apparently it is important to position the bungs for the sensors as close to possible as the factory locations, they are different on each side. Fortunately I have a '04 Ram 1500 with the Hemi, so I just measured them on the truck and got as close as I could on the cars exhaust. I kept the factory sensors for oil pressure and water temp and added additional ones for my new aftermarket gauges to read.
Thanks for the interest and compliments. |
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Posts: 1493
Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | Thanks Mike. I have wondered about this for awhile. Basically you have to give the computer all the real data it needs. I have heard of people trying to cheat by jumping sensors and stuff, but I don't know how the computer would deal with that and have the engine run well. Using a 5.7 from a wrecked 2wd Ram is something I've wanted to do since these motors became affordable. I have heard of people using entire sub frames from Dakotas and splicing them in. Your method looks a bit more sound. |
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Posts: 59
| Jon, the one thing I would caution you about if you are thinking of doing the same thing is to be careful of the options that the donor truck has. If it has factory installed anti theft deterrents, the engine may not start whem being used with a different ignition switch. I don't know enough to explain it in any more detail than that - I just completely lucked out with mine. I also wanted to clarify something I said about bridging the big harness plug to the EZ wiring harness. The harness I bought after I bought the engine just plugged into the engine harness. I had to find the wires in the later harness that needed power to feed the ECM, gas pedal and many other things. Hope that helps rather than confuses. |
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Posts: 1493
Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | It helps. It will be next year before I have the time or capital to try this. What year was the donor truck? I was looking at early-- 03 I think. The theft deterrent thing is very good to know. The devil lies in that computer. |
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Posts: 59
| The donor was a 2005 2 wheel drive Ram 1500. I would think if you took the VIN # of the truck you want to get an engine from to a dealer they could tell you all the options it has. You wouldn't believe how many times I've had to refer back to that VIN. |
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Member
Posts: 20
| As far as the ecm go there is a company that sell the software to let you get in an disable things like the theft deterent system , anti lock brakes and other such systems that would be useless on an older vehicle http://www.efilive.com/ This is the link |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 468
Location: Cushing, Wisconsin | http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0905_hemi_engine_swap_gui... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 468
Location: Cushing, Wisconsin | I am quite certain I'm going to do this to my 57 Windsor. Are you using stock fuel tank? What kind of pump? Where? Has your ecm been reflashed? Stock exhaust? Cooling system? Also read that a 65+ small block torqueflite can be used with adapter and then a kit to go from non push button to push button. It's possible to have a Gen III hemi with push button torqueflite in these cars |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 468
Location: Cushing, Wisconsin | http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=221162139828 |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 468
Location: Cushing, Wisconsin | http://www.xvmotorsports.com/products/detail/index.cfm?nPID=207 |
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Regular
Posts: 59
| I am using a stock fuel tank with a Russell external electric fuel pump from Summit. It is designed for using a gen III hemi in an older application. I mounted it on the inner side of the drivers side frame rail. It is best to keep it as close to the tank as you can. I kept the stock manifolds as I only intend to use the car for cruising, but everything else is custom. I did keep the four O2 sensors, and positioned them as close as possible to the factory locations using my '04 truck as a guide. I haven't done anything with the ECM yet, the guy that helped me with the wiring is going to put a code reader on it and work his magic like setting 0 throttle and W.O.T. for the gas pedal, and get the computer to ignore some things - I am at his mercy!!! As for the cooling system, I bought an aftermarket aluminum radiator that fit the opening, added an electric fan and an adjustable thermostat for it. My temp gauge runs off an additional sensor that I added in the heater line, but it doesn't seem to work very well, I may have to move it. The ECM gets all it's info from the factory sensors. I looked for a push button set up, but at the time all I could find was an electronic set up that runs about $2K. I think the moral of the story is that the longer you wait, the more stuff comes available, but how long do you want to wait?!?! |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Thanks, Mike, for sharing the details of this project with us. I wish I was younger!!!
Greg |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 468
Location: Cushing, Wisconsin | Thank you for the info and input. I haven't pulled the trigger on engine trans combo yet, I'd love to have push buttons working but it's not a deal breaker for me. I want to drive and travel in my car without issues or concerns. I do have 4 wheel disc brakes, hoping I don't have clearance issues mounting the new hemi. Is there room to mount the engine further from the firewall? I do feel the 5 speed would be a better mpg highway cruiser than a 3 speed torqueflite.
Edited by 57windycoupe 2014-01-12 1:25 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3777
Location: NorCal | 57windycoupe - 2014-01-11 7:01 PM
Also read that a 65+ small block torqueflite can be used with adapter and then a kit to go from non push button to push button. It's possible to have a Gen III hemi with push button torqueflite in these cars
The small block 727 ('62-on) was mated to the Gen III Hemi almost from its inception with no adapters until some genius discovered that the crank flange on the Gen III extends about .080" further back than the A/LA....so nowadays there is an .080" spacer plate available but many say it's not needed. |
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Regular
Posts: 59
| Thanks, Mike, for sharing the details of this project with us. I wish I was younger!!!
Greg
Greg, I was younger when I started!!!! I just didn't think so much other stuff would get in the way. Stuff like coaching my son's premier soccer team and high school team, re-doing a Barracuda for him, and rebuilding my house after Katrina, then all of a sudden it's 16 years later ( I also did a lot of bodywork on the Saratoga). |
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you are pretty much stuck with where the engine will fit due to the location of the sump on the Milodon oilcan. It fits between the cross member and the center link. I have seen where somebody notched the cross member to move the engine further forward on a 440 install, but they just added a 4" x 4" steel member on the other side for strength - it didn't look very nice. The othe issue is that the further forward you put the engine, the less room you have for your electric fan and shroud. |
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Expert
Posts: 1886
| If you run into problems and need help, PM me your phone number. We've done 4 5.7/6.1 conversions. 4 of them on forward look cars, the other on an E Body. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 873
Location: ALABAMA, HEART OF DIXIE | KcImperial - 2013-04-24 11:36 PM Here's Mike's pictures with his comments Engine and transmission as delivered
Nice work Mike. Thanks for sharing. |
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Regular
Posts: 59
| Well it's been a while, but I have an update for anyone who's interested. I am determined to take my car to Cruisin' the Coast this year, so I have been spending a lot of time on the small things that take all the time, but you really need them. Things like glass, horn, wipers, all the lights working etc. It's amazing how much more pleasant it is driving with a windshield in place! I also lowered the rear 1" and got the interior done. Carpet and seats are in, door cards are done, but I want to drive it a little while before I install them. My first real trip on the road, only about 2 miles was to get a front end alignment. I had a bit of a scare when the tech thought he may not be able to make the necessary adjustment on the passenger side because of the structure I had to build around the suspension (see photo 1436), but he was able to do it. Got my inspection sticker, and I was off to my first cruise night! One guy asked if I would sell it before I even got there. Car is a bit loud and BLAT, BLAT noisy under acceleration. I have 18" Magnaflows on it, but I think I need to add resonators. Nobody had a clue what the car was at the cruise (I've shaved all the badges). One guy even told his wife that somebody added those huge fins as there was no way they could be stock!!!!! I must say it felt pretty good after 17 years (and a lot of other distractions). |
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Regular
Posts: 59
| it's been a long time since my last update, so here goes with a quick pass through the last 14 months or so. I did make it to the 2014 Cruisin the Coast, but noticed that the car wasn't shifting at all, it just ran in one gear (later found out it was 2nd in limp mode) but still cruised just fine at 65mph with no sign of revving high. I went to the all Mopar show during CTC and the car was very well received, but as I drove to another venue I started having issues to to point where the car would idle, but had zero gas pedal input and had to be trailered home. over the course of the next year I changed several components. The first, the result of my tow home was to replace the electronic throttle body which had failed. I started going to local cruise nights but the car would still not shift. Trouble codes indicated that I needed a new PCM. I installed a reman unit due to the $650 price of a new one with flashing. Everything was solved. The car ran great, the blat, blat tone of the exhaust went away, until one day I lost the gas pedal again! This time codes indicated that the drive by wire gas pedal had failed. I replaced it with a brand new one, but now I was in limp mode again and the PCM had stopped sending any codes from the engine to the scanner, but transmission info was there. The computer rebuilder honored their warranty and sent me a new PCM, they were great to work with and the car ran great again……for two weeks, then went back into limp mode. I was devastated and started to look ripping everything out and putting in a 392 hemi that I have, but it needs building. After calming down I researched all I could find and found out that the solenoid pack in the 545RFE transmissions can go bad without throwing a specific code. I was nervous doing as I had never been in a transmission before, but it went in easy, and CTC 2015 was an all round success! Drove the car there, all around the event and home!!! My advise to anybody thinking of doing this kind of swap is to find out how long the engine has been sitting before you buy. If it's been a while (I don't know how long that is), be prepared to swap out all the electronic controlling devices with new ones. Apparently they don't like not being used then being brought back to life. I would post pictures if I could, but i gave up on that wrestling match a long time ago. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 888
Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon | Great long term project and very thoughtful write-up. The updates are certainly appreciated. Keep us posted as you continue.
. |
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New User
Posts: 1
| Good deal looking forward to your progress |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 520
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado | 57windycoupe - 2014-01-12 11:14 AM
Thank you for the info and input. I haven't pulled the trigger on engine trans combo yet, I'd love to have push buttons working but it's not a deal breaker for me. I want to drive and travel in my car without issues or concerns. I do have 4 wheel disc brakes, hoping I don't have clearance issues mounting the new hemi. Is there room to mount the engine further from the firewall? I do feel the 5 speed would be a better mpg highway cruiser than a 3 speed torqueflite.
You can always put a 518 behind it with a compulink mini to run the lockup/OD stuff. This is my plan for my 392/518 combo. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 888
Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon | ..what's a 'compulink mini' ??? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 520
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado | wayfarer - 2016-02-19 3:48 PM
..what's a 'compulink mini' ???
ugg my brain said the wrong thing, its a compushift mini. Its a controller for the 518 that will automate the lockup and overdrive operation based on throttle input and vehicle speed.
http://www.hgmelectronics.com/products-compushift-controllers/csm-c... |
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Regular
Posts: 78
Location: Ipswich UK | Hey. I'm in the process of putting 2005 5.7 hemi and auto trans in my 59 Fury and need help with the wiring. I have the engine harness and electronic box (ecu) . Just wondering if anybody know what wires i need to use to power up. I have all the wires from the main plug which would have gone to the fuse box. I also have the accelerator pedal which i have worked out the wires for. any info would be great |
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