D-501
Handygun
Posted 2009-12-09 9:32 PM (#200205)
Subject: D-501


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1117
1000100
Location: STL, MO
Just curious on these,it would have to be one of the most potent FL cars but you don't hear much about them,I realize they were very low production but Ive never heard much about thier nascar or nhra placings, any info?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
StillOutThere
Posted 2009-12-09 9:56 PM (#200211 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: RE: D-501



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas
Just to clarify, are you talking about the '56 D500-1 cars or the '57 D501 cars?    For obvious reasons the two are easily mistaken but are significantly different.   Then someone can respond.  
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mogge65
Posted 2009-12-09 11:39 PM (#200228 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1295
1000100100252525
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN
I think handygun referres to The 1957 dodge D500-2 equipped with the chrysler 3NE56 1956 Chrysler 354 ci 9:1/10:1 340hp/355hp only produced in 50 or so examples ! p.s found this on the web.


57 Dodge
I'm old enough to remember these cars as I was a member of nascar
back then. The D-501 was a hotter version of the D-500. There was
2 nascar versions as I recall with 354 cid Chrysler engines 340 hp
355 hp over 1 hp per cubic inch. The latter having higher compression
and solid lifter cam I don't remember the specs. however It was hot
for those days. These were designated as D-501-1 and D-501-2 if my
memory serves me. A story can relay is the latter would fly. I
witnessed one run 106 in 1/4 in low 13's on skinny street tires and
thru the mufflers in 1957 at Madera, Ca dragstrip.
I can't recall the base engine. I hope this helps you. I might say
you have keeper.
Thanks Tom

Edited by mogge65 2009-12-10 1:22 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-10 5:30 PM (#200325 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Steve, the 56 & 57 versions of these limited production cars involves long stories told over a roaring (inside-hearth,
preferably) fire, and with good scotch or bourbon to loosen the tongues.

Including production-prototypes, there were 103-105 (not 102) 57 D501's built (only 92 have been identified by Darrell Davis, to date, from his Historical Society records-research), and they had uniquely-built 354 c.i. engines, basically using the best-components from the 354 & the 392 Chrysler engines, and the 354 c.i. Dodge truck.

And then, there's the unique suspension stuff.....






Edited by d500neil 2009-12-10 6:07 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2009-12-10 5:36 PM (#200326 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1117
1000100
Location: STL, MO
You never see much on these cars, I have never seen one in person nor ever read any thing on them racing wise I guess as old racecars go they became yesterdays news when they werent competitive unlike the later MW, 990, and the 68 SS/AH cars which have stayed competitive after all these years, still you think you would see something on them as they had to be as good as any and better than most in '57
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-10 6:04 PM (#200332 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
At least two D501 convertibles are known to have survived, out of about 20 produced, and there were several 2-dr hardtops, with the remainder being the 2-dr sedans.

All were Coronet models, in various colors and with varying extents of optional-equipment on them.

None had power steering, and all had 3-speed manual trannies---hence, the manual steering; no room for the P/S 'gearbox' with the manual transmission housing's shape/size.

And one of the hardtops has been confirmed to have been built on a convertible frame.








Edited by d500neil 2009-12-10 6:11 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2009-12-10 6:26 PM (#200337 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1117
1000100
Location: STL, MO
I had read they were a "package" car,as most MoPars are. never knew about a ragtop but it makes sense as didn't NASCAR have a convert class back then? talk about unobtanium,As much work as Chrysler put into the A311 project some of it may have come to fruition here,The 501 interests me because they crossed car lines for an all out attitude rather than just hopping up an existing platform, But who raced them and where? NASCAR,NHRA, Bonneville? thanks Neil.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-10 7:47 PM (#200346 - in reply to #200337)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
.....Chrysler, as a corporation, before the introduction of the Max Wedge series of dragsters, was never really committed to a Race-on-Sunday-Sell-on-Monday ethos.

It's a wonder that the 1955 C300 was produced, but it probably resulted from the Crapillac (and Fart/Lincoon & Hudson) engine development, with ancillary bragging rights as to being the manufacturer of the Most-Powerful engine, as evidenced in the early 50's Mexican Road race results.

Carl Kiekaefer (where's my SCOTCH???, and the fireplace) of Mercury Outboard Corporation, famously campaigned a stock 1953 Saratoga in that year's M.R.R., and got stomped by some de facto Fart factory-prepped/modified Lincoons, and was not happy about it, and wrote a scathing editorial letter to Speed Age magazine, with a lame-rebuttal by Fart, wherein the latter stated that all the engine mods were INTENDED-supposed to become factory-available options, even tho they were not available options at the time of the race.

Why all of this background?

It was individuals who campaigned MoPars; not the factory.

Kiekaefer had the money and the interest to campaign the early 300s, and K. even designed the dry-element air cleaners, and the 56 Dodge dual 4-bbl intake manifold, and a lot of other neat things that I'm too sober to recall right now.

K. got into a snit with B. France prior to the 1957 NASCAR season, about the usage of dual carburetion -vs-fuel injection, and/or other GM/Fart engine options, and as he had determined that his company had received the maximum-positive public exposure to its racing-advertising (and, the public was 'tired' of seeing him stomp on the Chubbies; negative publicity, and the cost of his racing sponsorship was getting very high----probably the real, non-confirmed reasons for his withdrawal from racing).....Chrysler and Dodge said scrooit, we're outa here, and in the absence of any financial interest/backing by the Corp., there was no factory sponsorship of any organized track-racing after 1956 (and, even in '56, it was K. [and the several others who raced Mopes]
pretty-much alone, against everyone else).

There is an interesting tidbit in an early 57 magazine that hints at Dodge discussing the possibilities of entering into a racing-sponsorship agreement with an un-named party, who was probably Lee Petty, but that dope-deal never got consumated.

There was one laughable event in 1956(?) "World Series of Drag Racing" (IIRC), in/near Kansas, where a 1956 D-500-1 reportedly ran the 1/4 mile in something like the high 13's !!!! The high 13's wouldn't be actually reached until the late 60's, but 'this' 295 gross-HP car supposedly did that time---also, a lot of drag results, back then, listed only a car's trap-speeds, and not its E.T.

Drag racing was really Wild Wild West-stuff, until around late '58; strictly run-whatcha-brung type stuff, with no factory interest at all until the Corporate engineers started their "Ram Chargers" (two-words, right?) "hobby-effort"in 1960 .

I like Glenmorangie 14-yr, thank you....


AND, going back to the 1957 NASCAR season, B. France had decreed that a race car had to have only factory-
available equipment on it (hence the rushed-into-production pseudo-factory 56 K.-produced aluminum
dual-4 intake manifolds), and that any special car models (like the D501's) had to have at least 100 examples be built.

For whatever production-scheduling reasons, Dodge did produce its 100+ 501's, altho actual production
appears to have begun in late March, WELL into the 57 NASCAR season, which had its first race on...let me check...11/11/56 !

Three prototype 501's appeared at the 57 Daytona Speedweeks trials, in early FEB, but only two of them officially competed, and NOT well, owing to their "Man-off-the-Street" entrants (as termed by Hot Rod magazine), who literally drove their cars to Daytona, and tried to run them on the sand, like you-or-I might try to do, for 'grins'.

In 1956, Dodge un-officially/officially sponsored its driver/employee-engineer, Danny Eames' effort, to great success on the sand.

The 'factories-agreement' not to contribute toward organised (NASCAR) racing was decided-upon on 6/6/57, when the directors of the American Manufacturer's Association held a hearing in Detroit.

The NASCAR NEWSLETTER, of 6/21/57 states: "The decision, of course, had been expected for some time and took no one by surprise. The general idea was that there would be little or no effect on the general alignment of cars and drivers for [the rest of] 1957."




Edited by d500neil 2009-12-10 8:14 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57burb
Posted 2009-12-10 8:10 PM (#200349 - in reply to #200346)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 3966
200010005001001001001002525
Location: DFW, TX
Don't forget that the 1957 "AMA Ban" had a huge impact on Nascar participation in 1957.

Here is an interesting article on Nascar history, with emphasis on Petty's involvement with the Mopars in the '40s-50s. It appears that right as Mopar was going for the throat, it's drivers either got bored with winning? (Kiekhaeffer) or went to another manufacturer (Petty to Oldsmobile).

http://www.allpar.com/racing/petty-plymouth-racing.html


As for convertibles, they were historically the lighter bodystyle and therefore the best basis for racing. Many people wouldn't race anything BUT an open car for many years. Through the 1950s there were still convertible races on Daytona beach and some track events. But I can't really answer why that was the case. I guess the drivers thought they weren't going to get hurt when they fell out onto the sand. And they may have been correct, I have seen footage of some nasty crashes on Daytona that drivers walked away from.

Some covertible racing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6Uq51UyWM0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG_eRF9WFXI&feature=related



Edited by 57burb 2009-12-10 8:12 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-10 8:14 PM (#200350 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
...I just said that the AMA ban had NO effect on the 1957 NASCAR season, as quoted from the NASCAR NEWSLETTER, above.

K. was a bas***d [ EX-cuse me; that's BAS TARD] to work for, but he paid his drivers VERY well; they were not bored with winning races for him.

They went elsewhere after NOV-ish, 1957, when he folded his racing tents, and went home, to WI.

And, the convertibles (with their stronger frames) were heavier than the sedans.

They were popular because the fans could see their heroes trying to stay alive, as they circled a dirt (typically) track;
usually about .5 mile, or LESS....






Edited by d500neil 2009-12-10 8:22 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57burb
Posted 2009-12-10 8:27 PM (#200352 - in reply to #200350)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 3966
200010005001001001001002525
Location: DFW, TX
If you want to take the word of a Nascar-published newsletter from two weeks after the ban was announced, go ahead. Notice that a GM chairman sponsored the ban four months after the D501s were built.


I've never seen any reasoning for K leaving Nascar racing. But I do know that that team won nearly every race they entered in '55-56. You're right, probably a stretch to say they were bored. Probably some rules being changed to break their dominance. That would be Nascar's style.

Edited by 57burb 2009-12-10 8:30 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-10 8:40 PM (#200354 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
In 1956, Buck Baker (56 CHY), Herb Thomas (56 Chubster) and Speedy Thompson (CHY/DOD) finished 1/2/3.

In 1955, Tim Flock (55CHY), Buck Baker (55/56 Fart), and Lee Petty (55 DOD) finished 1/2/3.

How a person finished, points-wise, in the early years, depended largely upon how may races that he could afford
to enter.

If someone wanted to pay me ($75.00/hr) I could extensively research The History of Stock car Racing, and tell you/him
what K.'s entry/finishing results-percentages were; they were relatively high, but they were not exclusive-winners, by any means,
as noted by the first three overall placings, above, as examples .

And, sad-to-say, there is NO record of any 57 501 having competed in a 1957 NASCAR race, altho
Dick Joslin campaigned a "1957 Dodge (hardtop, too)" in a few 1958 races--to no significant placings.










Edited by d500neil 2009-12-10 8:44 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
StillOutThere
Posted 2009-12-10 9:34 PM (#200365 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas
There were two principal reasons why Carl Kiekhaefer (correct spelling) stopped automobile racing. Notice "auto racing" as he raced NASCAR, AAA, and sports cars as well. He was very sorely aware that the Mercury Outboards corporate image which he was trying to promote with that name on the sides of his race cars was being heavily booed by many fans at the venues. They were well aware that he was winning because he had the most money to win (which has been the winning formula in every investment sport) but stock car racing back then had been a poor man's sport and the fans liked it that way. So they were booing Kiekhaefer /Mercury's winning "banker's hot rods" owned by the millionaire businessman.

And secondly and probably THE NAIL in the racing effort coffin was when the IRS came to Kiekhaefer's accountants and told them that they could no longer continue to write off auto racing expenses against the profits of an outboard boat motor manufacturer. Today IRS accounting law does allow that in sponsorships but it did not in 1956. This latter fact is always under reported in accounts of why Kiekhaefer quit racing.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2009-12-10 9:36 PM (#200366 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1117
1000100
Location: STL, MO
Thanks for the legwork Neil, I am not much interested in NASCAR as thier "No good deed goes unpunished" ethic towards anyone other than gm usually factors out a superior design. I have a 2 inch think 'history of nascar" book laying around gathering dust somewhere that some nitnoid relative gave me unwittingly, I'm sure we all have them, but I'm much worse I like Drag racing and with the NHRA pre super/stock classes being what they were maybe the 501 was a car without a class, however the Ramcharger members did drag race thier FL's before the Ramrod (56-59) but they were racing on small regional tracks and if not a sancioned event there may be no records, oh well,what could have been is lost
Top of the page Bottom of the page
horace
Posted 2009-12-10 10:00 PM (#200367 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 471
1001001001002525
Location: MN
C'mon, over Neil, I've got scotch & a fireplace, my wife can record us. As I have mentioned there was a D501 in our town in the always available trite red & white.
The owner repainted it BLACK shaved the hood & deck as was the custom back in the day. I have a mag article on the D501 but do you suppose I can find it? I'm
wondering did these cars have 14"or 15 " tires.? The weak part of these cars was the transmission to much power for a standard 3spd.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-11 6:23 PM (#200488 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
That mag article (the only one contemporaneously prepared on the 501) was the 10/58 issue of Rod & Custom---i have
two copies of that issue.

The car was an all black model, which the happy drag-race owner having modified it somewhat, with a LaSalle trannie and 6-Webers and a couple-few other items.

The owner probably installed a bubble-area on the hood, over the Webers, but, that bubble closely resembled the hood-bubble(s) which were put onto the Proto-cars that appeared at the 57 Speedweeks.

There would have been no reason for those Proto-bubbles, as the production 501's were able to close the
hoods over the air cleaners with no problemos---so, those 'bubbles' are a bit of a mystery.

That car/owner were in OR, and years ago, I tried to research the car, from its owner/license plate, but learned that there had been some sort of fire, long ago, which destroyed the OMVD's old-records.

Quite a few 501's made it out to the PacNorWest, as someone, there, had been planning to form a racing sanctioning body, to rival that of NASCAR.

That car also did not have a D501 emblem on its trunk, and/but, at least one other car, at Daytona, also did not have a 501 emblem on it.

Gerry, I don't have that issue in front of me, but, I'm pretty sure that that car was not nosed-and-decked; that's why the 'missing' trunk 501 emblem was so intriguing, (not-) on it.

The wheels were 15" 56 Imps, with the 9/16" studs, on the 4 5/8" bolt-circle, mounted IIRC on 57 IMP steering knuckles.

The weak link undoubtedly was the Taxi trannie. MoPar, over the following years, made improvements to that transmission, including its gearing. Motor Life (IIRC--or Speed Age?) actually kinda liked the manual trannie that got put into the 58 Fury.





Edited by d500neil 2009-12-11 6:40 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-11 6:49 PM (#200493 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
S.O.T., do you know (or, can you find out?) when the I.R.S. came down on K.?

If that event preceded the 57 NASCAR season, that might explain why he so easily gave-up on NASCAR.

Also, I wonder how and why any other car sponsors in 1957 would have continued their support, facing the same draconian
tax write-off-eliminations???

In all my readings, including Sports Illustrated's and Stock Car Racing's articles on K., and the few NASCAR NEWSLETTERS
I've got, and the History of Stock Car Racing book, I haven't come across that IRS injunction on the elimination of tax-
write offs for racing-advertising---altho K. might have been AUDITED for/on his various tax write offs; that wouldn't
surprise me.



Top of the page Bottom of the page
StillOutThere
Posted 2009-12-11 10:38 PM (#200527 - in reply to #200493)
Subject: Re: D-501



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas

In all of CK's hot headedness things were on one day, off the next and back on the next again.  There are many stories of him firing employees in the morning and having them back to work sometimes the next day or sometimes the same day with a pay raise!  My memory is that his breakup with Bill France was in January of '57, yet there have always been rumors that Kiekhaefer was at Daytona Beach in '57 with a few employees and with at least one car under a different entry name.   I can't verify that at all.  Much of what I know is from Bill Fenrich, Kiekhaefer's #1 engine dyno man as well as his best welder.  I corresponded with Bill and eventually sat in his home living room and kitchen on multiple visits with my primary interest being discussing my ownership of one of the Kiekhaefer 300C Road America competion coupes, the only one of three still existing.  Bill personally took me over to Plant #6, the "race car plant" in Oshkosh and we walked the grounds.  Many stories about Kiekhaefer were always under discussion from work at Mercury to stories on the road with the race team.

One of the photos in his memory album was of Kiekhaefer over his shoulder at the control bench of a dyno room.  When he showed me that he said that it was EXACTLY that same situation with a 392 from one of the '57 cars running, the day that "the old man" (Kiekhaefer) walked in, tapped him on the shoulder and said, "Shut 'er down, Bill, we're not going racing".  Carl then explained to Bill the situation I have already described that had come down through accounting.  Bill recalls being dumbfounded.  And I can tell you I was observing the emotions of decades earlier on Bill's face as he told me the story.  And I won't forget exactly what Bill Fenrich told me that day and it is why it is in quotes here.

That same photo was used with a new balloon caption when Bill retired from Mercury Outboards a couple of years after my first meeting him.  It was made into the cover of the invitation that I and others received to his retirement party.  Not long after that Bill started slipping into Alzheimer's.  He is still living and his son, whom I am in regular contact with, is still an employee of Mercury today.

That's the story as I received it.  As in any million dollar decision, there are a whole host of contributing factors.  I'm not saying the IRS story is everything; I am only relating a story from a true insider as it was given to me as being critically important in the decision process.  The fact other writers have missed it is unfortunate because as Bill's son would tell you, his dad was very poorly treated by about every writer that came to interview him for what they could get out of him.  So Bill told them little to nothing.   I treated him with respect and I believe I heard several things others did not because I wasn't there for what I could get, but rather to honor a man who lived a part of Chrysler racing history.  He knew that and the family and I are friends.

 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-12 3:36 PM (#200576 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Thanks for preserving that episode, for posterity, S.O.T.

I do no have Kiekaefer's biography (I know; I know..) partly because I've only been interested in the Dodge Story end of
his permanent effect on the racing world, and, because he was never in the running to receive the Presidential-
Humanitarian Award, but, he DID play fair and within the rules of the game ["They never said that you 'couldn't' -S. Yunick].

I'd be willing to make a bar-bet that the I.R.S. somehow may have audited/hassled/upset K. , to where that incident was the
final-straw in his decision to leave NASCAR racing---that, along with K.'s feud with B. France about new-for-57 engine requirements,
and the racing-public's disdain at seeing his cars' domination over the Southern good-ol-boys/moon-shiners/Chubbie-drivers, AND
the fact that his Mercury Outboard advertising had achieved its objective in reaching the maximum market saturation, and, the
relatively very high cost involved in continuing his racing programs .




Top of the page Bottom of the page
StillOutThere
Posted 2009-12-12 5:48 PM (#200591 - in reply to #200576)
Subject: Re: D-501



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas

I think you are referring to Iron Fist, The lives of Carl Kiekhaefer, Industrial Caesar of a marine industry empire.  By Jeffrey L. Rodengen.   The book is as much the story of Mercury Outboards and the ins /outs of the marine industry as it is the story of C.K.  It isn't a direct biography in the classical sense.  There is some, but not a lot in Iron Fist about the race cars, however it is a fascinating read about the personality and character of Kiekhaefer and the marine industry.

Wonder how many of us here reading this appreciate that Kiekhaefer's chief engineer and personal confidant was Charles D. Strang who is currently the commissioner of today's NASCAR?  I spoke with Charlie (who drove my Road America car when it was new) just before he retired from Outboard Marine Corp. in Illinois.  

Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-14 7:30 PM (#200799 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Yeah, that's it, altho I was remembering something about a "stormy-petrel", or some such, but, I can't find a reference
to a Petrel, in regards to Carl the K.

I never knew about Mr. Strang---he's gotta be pretty old, by now, if K. confided in HIM...

What did Charlie have to say about where /how K. disposed of his race cars?




Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2009-12-14 8:05 PM (#200805 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1117
1000100
Location: STL, MO
Well I guess the only question's I have left is which one of your 300's do you like the best and why,Did they have offshoot or side models of most letter cars, as these Road America and GT's,how do they compare SOT?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
StillOutThere
Posted 2009-12-20 9:51 PM (#201466 - in reply to #200799)
Subject: Re: D-501



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas

d500neil - 2009-12-14 6:30 PM Yeah, that's it, altho I was remembering something about a "stormy-petrel", or some such, but, I can't find a reference to a Petrel, in regards to Carl the K. I never knew about Mr. Strang---he's gotta be pretty old, by now, if K. confided in HIM... What did Charlie have to say about where /how K. disposed of his race cars?

Seems like I ran into some biographical info on Strang somewhere on the internet in the past but I'm unable to find anything this evening on what year he was born.  I think he was still a comparitively young engineer when he worked for Kiekhaefer.

From Karl Pippart III, automotive researcher who has been into the files now in the posession of Rose Smiljanic, Kiekhaefer's secretary, still also living, I have a copy of the race car list through '55 and 56 with car numbers (both race cars and others) and how they left the Kiekhaefer team.   Some were junked and some were traded in and some were sold to friends.   One 300B was kept and that is the car that was last at the Ford museum along with the Dodge clone after having been vintage road raced for several years.   After Kiekhaefer died there was an auction of remaining race car spares including engines.   Charles Marshall in California now has one of the Dodge race engines that was picked up at that auction by one of Mercury's employees.   I spoke with two of the buyers of the cars but neither would sell.

Hey guys, this stuff is still out there.  You just have to do your homework.  I'm not anyone special.  I just keep asking questions.  The RIGHT questions.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
StillOutThere
Posted 2009-12-20 10:07 PM (#201471 - in reply to #200805)
Subject: Re: D-501



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas

Handygun - 2009-12-14 7:05 PM Well I guess the only question's I have left is which one of your 300's do you like the best and why,Did they have offshoot or side models of most letter cars, as these Road America and GT's,how do they compare SOT?

The Road America 300C has not finished restoration so I have only ever driven it around the block.  The 300F Special fries tires with 4 passengers and would like to keep accelerating (though I haven't done so) past 130 mph.  So I can't answer the preference question yet but my interest is in styling first and I prefer the 300C to the 300F and I prefer the feel of driving a body on frame car over unibody because I am old fashioned.

Offshoot -- side models.   Not sure how to answer that because while the Road America was Kiekhaefer's own name for the package as he ordered it, rather than a factory option package,  the 300F Special Gran Turismo is part of a group of nine "prototype" cars purpose built by the factory first for Daytona record setting and then to fulfill a couple of additional orders.   There were of course other factory "packages" so to speak like the '56 300B 355HP package which were really race cars or the 390HP 300C stick shift cars.   The 18 300Ds with Bendix EFI (fuel injection) are darn special too.   And there are other one-off cars like the 300C that was built for Bob Roger the "father of the 300 idea" which had custom trim, special paint, interior, and every option in the books.   So, I mean where do you stop? 

 





(300C_coupe_bob_roger_special.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 300C_coupe_bob_roger_special.jpg (98KB - 298 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
StillOutThere
Posted 2009-12-20 10:12 PM (#201474 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: RE: D-501



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas
We sure got off the D-501 story.   How about I post a few pics to revive the thought.    Lee Smith's:



(IMG_7362rt1-vi_sml.jpg)



(IMG_7357rt-vi_sml.jpg)



(IMG_7360rt1-vi_sml.jpg)



(IMG_7356rt-vi_sml.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments IMG_7362rt1-vi_sml.jpg (61KB - 308 downloads)
Attachments IMG_7357rt-vi_sml.jpg (66KB - 304 downloads)
Attachments IMG_7360rt1-vi_sml.jpg (60KB - 304 downloads)
Attachments IMG_7356rt-vi_sml.jpg (71KB - 280 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
lawrence
Posted 2009-12-20 11:42 PM (#201479 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 3951
200010005001001001001002525
Location: Bama
12" drums and 15" wheels. When I hit the lottery, I'm getting a 501

Top of the page Bottom of the page
mogge65
Posted 2009-12-21 11:24 AM (#201520 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1295
1000100100252525
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN
Wayne! Thank´s for sharing those pic´s! Now that we now exactly wich parts we need to build the ultimate killer, we can all build a nice clone!

Edited by mogge65 2009-12-21 11:24 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-21 2:13 PM (#201538 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Morgan, there's a LOT more unique-specific parts installed on the 501, than we've discussed, so far,
like, the gas tank, radiator, torsion bars, exhaust system and other engine-item specifics.

Perhaps surprisingly.... (but not, really, considering that Dodge took its 501 production commitment
and actually built sell-able civilian-comfortable examples of them, after Dodge gave up on
backing any formal racing sponsorship-involvement, after Kiekaefer disbanded his own private team,
in late 1956/early 57).....virtually all of the 501's (except for Lee Smith's and a couple-few others) have
been found to have been relatively heavily/nicely optioned from the factory, including having tinted
sunvisors, rear window defoggers, Custom Coronet interiors, radios, and, of course, heaters
(Lee's race car has no heater or power brakes).

As above mentioned, they all have manual steering and manual trannies.













Edited by d500neil 2009-12-21 2:29 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Imp58Alpes
Posted 2009-12-21 4:33 PM (#201559 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 558
5002525
Location: Grenoble - France
Just my 2-cent regarding the picture showing the specific parts: Imperial did not offer 15" wheels on 1957 models. 1956 models did.

Edited by Imp58Alpes 2009-12-21 4:34 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2009-12-21 7:59 PM (#201613 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1117
1000100
Location: STL, MO
Wayne thanks for the pics and info, were the "GT" cars also the 4speed cars? 300's are my personal favorite of all the 50's cars but I am a neophyte about them having only owned a lowly "L"! but never say never there is a white C or D up the street that could possibly be had, as far as where to stop? with the new Challenger Drag Pak out I guess they just keep coming.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
lawrence
Posted 2009-12-21 8:38 PM (#201616 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 3951
200010005001001001001002525
Location: Bama
In that last engine bay picture above, what is that above the master cylinder? Some kinda high voltage coil? Is it stock on a 501?

Top of the page Bottom of the page
StillOutThere
Posted 2009-12-21 9:19 PM (#201620 - in reply to #201559)
Subject: Re: D-501



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas

Imp58Alpes - 2009-12-21 3:33 PM Just my 2-cent regarding the picture showing the specific parts: Imperial did not offer 15" wheels on 1957 models. 1956 models did.

You are quite correct.  And though the Road America Kiekhaefer cars were delivered from the factory with 14" '57 Imperial wheels and likely the D-501 Dodges were also, the switch to 15" '56 Imperial wheels was done as soon as the cars hit the ground to get enough tire under them because of their performance.   The second owner of my car was available for interview when I first bought it and she (speaking for her deceased husband) provided me with a picture of the car in front of their home shortly after purchase when the car was three years old and sure enough, there were the 15" Imperial wheels.  The Smith Dodge appears to have a pretty tall diameter as well as max width 15" tire on that wheel as well.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
StillOutThere
Posted 2009-12-21 9:21 PM (#201622 - in reply to #201616)
Subject: Re: D-501



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas

lawrence - 2009-12-21 7:38 PM In that last engine bay picture above, what is that above the master cylinder? Some kinda high voltage coil? Is it stock on a 501?

That is the sending unit for the owner-added Sun brand tachometer which just happened to fit nicely onto the firewall bracket for the master cylinder.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
horace
Posted 2009-12-23 12:00 PM (#201890 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 471
1001001001002525
Location: MN
I wonder if the above D501 was @ the Mopar Nats some years ago. I tried to get a reporter to do a story on the D501 but alas he needed to do a story on the 600th GTX that day.
Absolutely no interest was shown by one of the mopar "comic books" photographers.
I feel blest @ having seen 2 D501s even thogh they were the same color, equip.
I noticed sure grip listed but I thought sg started in 1958
Top of the page Bottom of the page
StillOutThere
Posted 2009-12-23 2:51 PM (#201910 - in reply to #201613)
Subject: Re: D-501



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas

Handygun - 2009-12-21 6:59 PM Wayne thanks for the pics and info, were the "GT" cars also the 4speed cars? SNIP

The Gran Turismo (GT) project covered 1960 and '61 Chrysler 300F and 300G only.   The Pont-a-Mousson French full synchro 4speed was employed during 1960 only.   The 3speed manual was used in 1961.

Later, in 1964, Chrysler came out with their own 4speed transmission and it was available in the 300K and other cars but those were not GTs.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-23 3:45 PM (#201919 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Gerry, yeah, Lee Smith's car has been shown a fair amount, in the past 20 years, and was on loan to the Don
Garlit's museum in Florida, until a couple years ago, too.

I first met Lee at the First Harrah's Auto Collection break-up auction, in Reno, sometime around 1980--could go look it
up, as I have all the several-auctions' brochures in my archives---he was looking at a Model T-Roadster pickup, and also
mentioned that he was interested in the Moline-Knight car, as he was living in Moline, IL, then.

His D501 ownership and racing history probably evolved from comments made about the Collection's 300 models, and
the fact that the Collection had.....(-had; its yellow/white Coro D500 convertible had apparently been removed, somehow, from
the Collection years before Harrah's death, and it, eventually, ended up in Marvin Hughes' possession, in FL ; that Coro D500
was never seen at either of my prior visits to the Collection, and it was not on-site or listed/shown 'in' the 3-4 Collection-
breakup auction catalog(s).....that Coro D500 vert has been presented in several MoPar magazines in the '90's).

Funny how small the MoPar World really is, and how a coincidental happenstance of conversation with a complete stranger
can result in a lifelong friendship and comraderie.

Even stayed at Lee's house, around 1991, and visited the Historical Society, together...but that's another story for another
time.




Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-23 4:13 PM (#201928 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Gerry, just happen to have the D501 A.M.A. Specification sheets, here (surprise, surprise)...and every-built MoPar
rear end gear ratio is listed as being optionally available, from 2.92 (hmmm...NO 2.76:1 ratio is shown...) to
6.17.

UNFORTUNATELY, the Spec Sheet (pg. 15) does not indicate that any particular 3rd member was to have been a
"Sure Grip" limited slip gearset.

W., or some-other 300-Type, can you look at your A.M.A. sheets and confirm whether any mention is made in Re:
availability of a Sure Grip on the 57's???

The 501 Spec-Sheets was issued "January 1957".

Interestingly, the Spec Sheets DO show the automatic 3-spd Torqueflite trannie as being available on the 501's, but,
again, no automatic 501's have ever been seen to have been produced, and, for any Cloners out there, the Factory
IBM Build Cards will confirm the transmission-type that your 'car' should have be installed in it .

The A.M.A. Spec Sheets (as are virtually every other piece of factory literature---the standards were not real-tight, and
running-changes to a car's equipment were regularly made)....incorrectly lists the standard "D500" automatic-trannie
as having a rear end ratio of 3.18:1, when it is common knowledge that ALL Torqueflite Dodges (and all the other
marques, too?) have the bullet proof 3.36:1 rear end as standard equipment.

The 3.36 & 3.54 are shown as being the optional T/F rear end ratios.

The Spec Sheet correctly shows the D500's (all the other models, too, but they're not included on the D501 Spec Sheets) standard manual-transmission as having a 3.73 rear end, with ONLY the 3.54 & 3.91 as being optionally available.







Edited by d500neil 2009-12-23 4:30 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
StillOutThere
Posted 2009-12-23 7:01 PM (#201964 - in reply to #201928)
Subject: Re: D-501



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas

I have the letter from GF Hadas, of Chrysler Technical information Services to the AMA dated February 4, 1957 revising pages 1,5,6 and 15 of the '57 Chrysler AMA spec sheets representing revisions to camshaft, carburetor and rear axle data.  

It states "Limited Slip Differential optional on C-76-300."      This is also the letter showing the .444 lift camshaft specs.

Neil, you've typed or quoted the highest speed gear ratio incorrectly as 2.96.   The 38-13 ratio is referred to as 2.93.       Yes, in the '57 Chrysler, the 3.36 diff was standard with torqueflite.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-23 7:16 PM (#201965 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Actually, I typed "2.92", not 2.96.....but/and, you are correct about the "2.93" being the correct ratio....but, guess what?

Just pulled out the 501 Spec sheet, and it IS mis-printed as being "2.92" on it!

The 38-13 ratio, on my Spec Sheet is for the "2.92" gear.

Gotta love (not-) the "Factory" documentation.

My car has the 2.76:1 rear end ratio; there was a brass tag attached to one of its face-bolts, that I still have.

If Brent is sobered-up, and reading this, maybe he can provide us with the 'history' of that gear set, as I bought it
from him.

[Actually, I think that it came off of his 1966 Coronet].....





Edited by d500neil 2009-12-23 7:34 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-23 7:28 PM (#201968 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
...I wonder if there was a revised version of the D501 AMA Spec Sheets?

Your 300C-revision, of 2/2/57, specifically amends the OEM specifications to include the Sure Grip option.

'That' means (strongly-indicates), that as of the "January 1957 D500/D501 Automobile Manufacturers Association
Consolidated Specification Questionaire" (as it was officially entitled), the Sure Grips were NOT (officially) available
as optional equipment on the D501's.

Wonder if Dodge ever bothered to up-date its A.M.A. Spec Sheets (in/around February) too?

The info on the AMA spec sheets' pages would be different (duh), but the page-categories would be identical for every car model built.







Edited by d500neil 2009-12-23 7:32 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
StillOutThere
Posted 2009-12-23 9:55 PM (#201985 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: RE: D-501



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas

It would, I believe, be generally inappropriate to assume that what is "fact" or "applicable" in one car line, is also true in any other car line.   Paperwork for Dodge or Plymouth may have been completed at a similar time but NOT necessarily.  AMA specs were revised whenever and as often as necessary or not at all for any given year.  They just had to be kept current.   The 300C revision of Feb. 4, 57, was to get everything in print before going to Daytona Speed Weeks.      As a side note, a '57 DS Adventurer I owned also had factory limited slip but I no longer have record of its build date. 

This letter is yet another indication that Kiekhaefer was still very much involved with the 300s and communicating with Chrysler and had intentions of running NASCAR in '57 through this very date.  Why?  Because it is this letter that documents the "Holley optional" carburetion for the 300C which we are told was entirely Kiekhaefer's idea because he had never been happy with the fuel starvation caused by the WCFB carb floats during the near continuous left hand cornering.   The Holley "teapot" carbs do not starve under similar circumstance.   My Road America Kiekhaefer 300C has the Holleys.

Handygun, keep in mind that there was a manufacturer's ban on racing participation in June (?) of '57 and Chrysler kept their word and did no factory sponsorships whereas Ford and GM made deals under the table to keep other teams going.





(TeapotHolleysRside.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments TeapotHolleysRside.jpg (67KB - 289 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2009-12-23 11:04 PM (#201987 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1117
1000100
Location: STL, MO
Dusted off my NASCAR chronicle book I have in it is a picture of a "Johnny Allen" in a 57 Plymouth #64 finished 7th overall for 1957. June 6 is the date of the ban, Interesting article on Kiekhaefer leasing a track in SC to give Buck Baker a chance to beat Herb Thomas a driver who quit him, another Kiekhaefer driver hooked Thomas's bumper and wrecked him, severly injuring Thomas in the process, Keikhaeher never appeared at another NASCAR race. However the team did have 51 wins in 190 starts and thats impressive as are 51 poles and 116 top five's, he was quoted as saying "We just cannot afford to have our name further associated with racing". Interesting looking carbs you have there.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
horace
Posted 2009-12-23 11:27 PM (#201989 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 471
1001001001002525
Location: MN
Neil, my AMA is year specfic 1960 Dodge & Dart I wrote for when I acquired my 1960 Phenix D500 back in 65. However, I looked in my 1958 Desoto & Dodge Ross Roy data books which announce sure grip as new. Up off my duff to check 57 cattalogs later to see if SG was offered before, I think not.
Now Neil, what if WE try to assemble what they were, mostly color & accesories of real known 501's?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-12-24 12:15 AM (#201991 - in reply to #201965)
Subject: Re: D-501



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
d500neil - 2009-12-24 4:16 PM

My car has the 2.76:1 rear end ratio; there was a brass tag attached to one of its face-bolts, that I still have.

If Brent is sobered-up, and reading this, maybe he can provide us with the 'history' of that gear set, as I bought it
from him.

[Actually, I think that it came off of his 1966 Coronet].....





*************************************

That is correct. 1966 Coronet 440 (WH27) D-code car: 273 LA engine, 2bbl / 727 / 8.75 rear with 2.76 gears car. As far as I know, the drivetrain was entirely original and stock.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
StillOutThere
Posted 2009-12-24 10:17 AM (#202033 - in reply to #201989)
Subject: Re: D-501



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas

horace - 2009-12-23 10:27 PM Neil, my AMA is year specfic 1960 Dodge & Dart I wrote for when I acquired my 1960 Phenix D500 back in 65. However, I looked in my 1958 Desoto & Dodge Ross Roy data books which announce sure grip as new. Up off my duff to check 57 cattalogs later to see if SG was offered before, I think not.  SNIP

It is true that "Sure Grip" by that name was "new" as a 1958 option across the entire Mopar line.  However, the offering of the "limited slip differential" as an option by that name began in 1957.   From the start, a 1957 differential originally equipped with limited slip is stamped with an "S" on the same pad into which the gear ratio is stamped.     These are all Dana Power-Lok units from 1957-1969 and all interchange.

A new practice was begun on Dec. 17, 1957 for identification purposes adding a metal tag reading "Use Sure-Grip Lube" to the axle-housing-to-carrier bolt below the carrier filler plug so that service technicians would use the required additive.   Installation of this tag on a 1957 car restoration would therefore be incorrect as 1958 cars would be several months into production.

If you are a Mopar guy, the correct nomenclature is in fact "Sure-Grip" for your limited slip differential.   The generic term among all automotive hobbyists is "posi" which is short for Positraction which was General Motors name for their limited slip differential.   Ford called their limited slip "Equa-Lok" and Studebaker called theirs "Twin-Traction".   As usual, GM dominated sales and has dominated racing and sadly we Mopar guys have fallen into using their terminology.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-24 3:36 PM (#202086 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Gerry, I have the A.A.A. spec sheets for the 1957 Dodge line, but, there was a 'special' A.M.A. Spec-Sheet pertaining
ONLY to the D501, as it compared to the D500 models (which specs were also listed on the D501 sheets).

Dodge may have issued an amended A.M.A. spec sheet, for the Sure Grip differential availability (like W. points-out, above,
for the 300's availability), but, until I see it/them, I have to say that the limited slip diffies were NOT available on the 501's
(at least, not officially, until maybe around FEB, and THEN....the production 501's were actually first built.... (and virtually exclusively
for civilian consumption, as private automobiles, and not as dedicated race cars)....in late March---altho Kiekaefer DID buy
one of the first 501's, and, as a race-car, and, I have some records on THAT car, so IF any 501 would have had a S.-G. on
it. it would be K's car, so, lemme look at that car's info........







Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-24 3:59 PM (#202094 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
OK; Kiekaefer's race car did NOT have a limited slip "Sure Grip" differential installed onto it, even though that car WAS
very-specially built, using a standard Coronet 2-dr hardtop body (with no special 501 coding on it, like the 2-dr sedans
and the verts had on them)---there were a a several-few 501 hardtops built---and, K's car was VERY-specially built onto a
(stronger/lower center of gravity) convertible frame.

Specifically, regarding that car's rear end, the factory says, as part of a post-car-delivery letter to K.: "...You will note that
the rear axle housing to differential and carrier assembly stud spacing is not the same as on the 1956 housing. However,
the 1956 [open?-] differential and carrier assemblies can be used if the studs in the housings are relocated. With 1956 differential
and carrier assemblies, 1956 rear axle drive shafts would also have to be used."

As to WHY the factory would include the above paragraph in its letter, the probable reason is that it was an addendum
to the letter's discussion of three aspects of K's hardtop/convertible mis-matchings that K. would have to rectify, himself, but,
again, there is NO indication that K's race car had a Sure Grip on it.






Edited by d500neil 2009-12-24 4:13 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-24 4:10 PM (#202098 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Gerry, from the at least four (that I recall, now) 501 IBM cards I've got, and from discussions with Corp researcher
Darrell Davis, the 501's were a mish-mash of colors and trim-levels, and the cars were built relatively randomly,
and not as a dedicated production run (which might, otherwise, seem like a logical way to build them!!).

Rest assured, though, that they are QUITE difficult to re-assemble, from all of the unique HD-parts which went into/onto
them, and, there are factory-build records found, to date, for some 92 of them---Darrell Davis hasn't found the way-
early built prototypes that appeared at Daytona, and/or some of the non-obviously-coded hardtops have eluded his efforts
to confirm them, as well.

With the civilian-proto cars, there probably were 105 501's built.




Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-24 4:57 PM (#202103 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
AND, something else, from my 501 file...

I mentioned, way-above here, somewhere, that K. had quit his NASCAR participation as part of a dispute over engine
carburetion allowances, in 1957.

'Everybody' knows about the Chubbie Fool-injection that was gnu-4-57, but I'm looking at an un-dated photocopy page
(#53) from a Speed Age magazine that I've got, and its "Stock Report" by Sandy Grady.

Mr Grady states therein : "Newest entry in the battle for stock car racing prestige in 1957 may be Dodge.

Eager to reap publicity benefits from the D500's husky (310HP) muscles, the Dodge bigwigs have approached one top
Grand National driver [....probably, I believe, to have been Lee Petty---altho I have no solid research-evidence on this, and,
there were several other worthy candidates---might have been Cotton Owens---TOO BAD it wasn't Smokey Yunick!!!] with the idea of organizing a racing stable.

Already deep in the stock sweepstakes are five companies: Fart, Chubbie, Oldsmobuick, Ponchito, and Mercurial [Kiehaefer is
mentioned slightly later in Mr. Grady 's article, below] , all with teams of top drivers and mechanics.

American Motors[???!!] is plotting a new super-powerful model that may surprise the track crowds this summer [never happened--].
The car will be named the Rebel (after Frank Mundy?), the car will be a Rambler with a Hudson motor souped by Bendix fuel-Injection [THERE'S that system, beyond the Chubbie's usage of it!].

The real dogfight for 1957 rewards will be staged by Fart & Chubbie [law firm?]. When the Chubster "engineers" surprised Fart with
fool-injection for '57, Fart's race-conscious officials searched for a comeback.

It's more than a rumor now--Fart's will use McCullough superchargers as optional equipment....the same blower used by Stupid-
packer, and should boost the racing models to just under 300 horses."

Going back to Dodge's possible 'organized' involvement in NASCAR, it is worth noting that Mr. Grady's article was written WELL-
before anyone in the racing world had heard-tell of the 354 c.i. D501 race car---Grady only mentions the 325 c.i. dual-carbed
[Super-] D500 model, which had 310 HP, and no-clue about Dodge's up-coming King Kong Car.

Now, as to Mr. K, Mr. Grady writes: " After months of rumors, Carl K. has made a move to quit the stock car racing battlefield.
The WI outboard motor wizard [no relation to Serge...] won the national titles with Flock in '55 and with Baker in '56, but had
frantic hassles both years with NASCAR rulesmakers and brass.

In 1956, K. told this writer:'I have had a lot of pleasure and met many fine people, but I've been lucky in not having a driver
scratched or hurting anybody else. The cars are getting so fast that I'm not sure that they're safe.

Perhaps it would stretch our luck too thin to race again.

If I compete at all, it will not be at every 'bullring' [NOW, there is an EARLY use of that word, to describe a dirt-flat
fairgrounds-short track!] in the country as we have tried to do---but only in the big events.'

Soon afterward [when???], K. closed his Charlotte headquarters and sold his cars.

Yet---and this may sound illogical in view of the foregoing---I expect to see K's 'Big White Cars' in a few races this year [not-]
although his own name may not be prominently associated with the stable. "

SO, it appears that Dodge did make an abortive attempt to create a factory-'assisted' race team, after Kiekaefer folded
his racing tents.

BUT, since K. DID custom-order, literally, the first-production D501, and a couple-few 300's, Mr. Grady's prediction about K's
possible future involvement in organized racing was not totally unfounded!!!






Edited by d500neil 2009-12-24 5:09 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
horace
Posted 2009-12-25 7:42 PM (#202241 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 471
1001001001002525
Location: MN
So, any other colors known? Thanks for the "card" w/ the scary lookin g Claus
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chrycoman
Posted 2009-12-26 4:38 AM (#202287 - in reply to #202241)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1819
1000500100100100
Location: Vancouver, BC
The Rambler Rebel was announced to the public in February, 1957. It was to have an AMC V8 (no mention of Hudson as Hudson no longer made their own engines) equipped with Bendix's Electrojector fuel injection system putting out 288 horsepower. Cost of the EFI was to be $375 with production to begin in March and deliveries to commence in May. The Rebel was painted silver metallic with a bronze-tone anodized aluminum side insert panel. Transmission choices were 3-speed manual (with or without overdrive) or Hydramatic.

"Motor Trend" raced one of the first Rebels at Daytona (reported in the April, 1957, edition) on the beach. The MT Rebel had the Nash-Hudson 327-cid V8 engine with a 9.5:1 compression, 4-bbl carb, dual exhausts and 255 horsepower. The Electrojector was now listed as an option. MT's Joe Wherry and the Rebel did the quarter mile in 18.32 seconds.

By the time the Rebel was being shipped to dealers, the Electrojector was no more. Suspect AMC had the same problems with it Chrysler would one year later, but being a smaller firm on the verge of bankruptcy AMC did not have the money to gamble on a possible marketing disaster.

GM was first with fuel injection on a US production car, having Rochester's mechanical system on the option list when the 1957 models were announced. It was offered on Chevy's 283-cid V8 and supposedly was also available on Canadian-built 1957 Pontiacs (they used Chevrolet engines).

Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-12-26 3:28 PM (#202331 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
...Interesting that the Rebels were to have been built in March, as that is when (very-late, though) the d501's were
first built.

I wonder if either company realized that the 1957 NASCAR season began on 11/11/56, and, that racing teams (as
briefly-mentioned in Grady's Speed Age article) would have to be signed-up and organized by DEC/JAN in order
to achieve a significant racing result ?

There is always a certain amount of teething/breaking-in experience associated with any new organization (like: improve-
ments in the transmissions----THAT would be a real "racing-improves-the-brand" result; stronger trannies with better gear
ratios).





Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2009-12-27 11:56 AM (#202459 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1117
1000100
Location: STL, MO
Chrysler Corp's 2 HEMI's pretty much laid the law down on "Racing improves the breed", nobody else is even close to thier direct and indirect contribution to racing in the US.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-12-27 12:23 PM (#202466 - in reply to #202287)
Subject: Re: D-501



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Chrycoman - 2009-12-27 1:38 AM

GM was first with fuel injection on a US production car, having Rochester's mechanical system on the option list when the 1957 models were announced. It was offered on Chevy's 283-cid V8 and supposedly was also available on Canadian-built 1957 Pontiacs (they used Chevrolet engines).



**************************************

The 57 Bonnevilles were injected, weren't they ?

Limited production (530?) convertible-only, 347 ...... or was it Tri-Power ?

Me memory is fuzzy on this one.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DeSotohead
Posted 2009-12-27 12:58 PM (#202473 - in reply to #202466)
Subject: Re: D-501



Board Moderator

Posts: 3186
20001000100252525
Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan)
Brent.....

You are correct that fuel injection was an option on Bonnevilles. A SIMILAR system to the Chevrolet, in that it was a continuous flow spray nozzle system, but the manifolding and parts were not the same, not even looked similar.

It seemed to have more issues than the Chevy system, and low popularity doomed it to I think being a 2-year only offering.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57burb
Posted 2009-12-27 1:08 PM (#202475 - in reply to #202466)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 3966
200010005001001001001002525
Location: DFW, TX
Yes, 1957 Bonnevilles were offered only as fuel injected convertibles. The fuel injection was carried over for 1958, but as an option on the Bonneville line, which was now available as either a coupe or convertible.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-12-27 2:06 PM (#202483 - in reply to #202475)
Subject: Re: D-501



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Being a former GM'er, I thought the 57 was FI only, as well as ragtop only. But that Tri-Power set-up was confusing the old dog !

The 58 was a real behemoth. Poor Harley Earl. I can only imagine the sh*tstorm that must have gone on over at GM to produce the 58 cars after Exner kicked him between the eyes !

I'll bet it involved a whole lot of chainsmoking and swearing at the walls, not to mention subordinates !
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chrycoman
Posted 2009-12-27 4:50 PM (#202511 - in reply to #202483)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1819
1000500100100100
Location: Vancouver, BC
Doctor DeSoto - 2009-12-27 11:06 AM

Being a former GM'er, I thought the 57 was FI only, as well as ragtop only. But that Tri-Power set-up was confusing the old dog !

The 58 was a real behemoth. Poor Harley Earl. I can only imagine the sh*tstorm that must have gone on over at GM to produce the 58 cars after Exner kicked him between the eyes !

I'll bet it involved a whole lot of chainsmoking and swearing at the walls, not to mention subordinates !


You should see the designs Harley Earl had approved before his underlings saw the new 1957 Mopars. Earl was apparently away in Europe at the time and his assistant, Mitchell, started stripping the chrome off sides of the 1958 models. You think they were plastered in chrome when they went into production . . .

Earl was also working on the 1959 Olds, Buick and Cadillac models, using the 1957-58 bodies which actually dated back to 1948. The new 1959 models were a crash program and for the first time all makes were based on one basic body, with most sharing the front doors.

There was swearing and hair pulling, but it was not done by GM management at the subordinates. It was all aimed at Harley Earl who retired in 1958 after the 1959 models were being tooled for production, giving the public the impression the 1959's were Earl's babies.

Which I suspect is one reason styling heads since then retire before the age of 60 as a general rule. By then it seems you are getting too attached to the past and can't see the future. Remember Iacocca and the padded vinyl roof? Engel, Macadam and Gale all retired before they turned 60.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2010-05-21 12:51 AM (#224435 - in reply to #201538)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
d500neil - 2009-12-21 11:13 AM
Perhaps surprisingly.... (but not, really, considering that Dodge took its 501 production commitment
and actually built sell-able civilian-comfortable examples of them, after Dodge gave up on
backing any formal racing sponsorship-involvement, after Kiekaefer disbanded his own private team,
in late 1956/early 57).....virtually all of the 501's (except for Lee Smith's and a couple-few others) have
been found to have been relatively heavily/nicely optioned from the factory, including having tinted
sunvisors, rear window defoggers, Custom Coronet interiors, radios, and, of course, heaters
(Lee's race car has no heater or power brakes).

As above mentioned, they all have manual steering and manual trannies.


Neil, the article could easily be in error, but the article on "Sonny Benson's" D-501 convertible (MCG 9/1991) states that it is a Torqueflite. Dave
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chrycoman
Posted 2010-05-21 1:48 PM (#224493 - in reply to #202103)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1819
1000500100100100
Location: Vancouver, BC
d500neil - 2009-12-24 1:57 PM

AND, something else, from my 501 file...

....

American Motors[???!!] is plotting a new super-powerful model that may surprise the track crowds this summer [never happened--].
The car will be named the Rebel (after Frank Mundy?), the car will be a Rambler with a Hudson motor souped by Bendix fuel-Injection [THERE'S that system, beyond the Chubbie's usage of it!].

....


The Bendix fuel-injection system was the same as used by Chrysler in 1958. AMC probably did some testing with the system and found it too unreliable for their financial situation (on the verge of bankruptcy). Thus the 1957 Rebel appeared with a 4-bbl carb mounted on AMC's 327-cid V8 engine, the engine used by Nash and Hudson in 1957.

And given the record of the Rochester system used by GM vs the Bendix system, I don't think "Chubbie" was too disappointed it was beyond their usage!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
deaner
Posted 2010-05-21 3:05 PM (#224510 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: RE: D-501


Veteran

Posts: 178
100252525
Location: South central Idaho.
Had one many years ago. Coupe, Sent it East as had to many irons going at that time. Philly area. Around 82. No engine or trans.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2010-05-21 4:16 PM (#224520 - in reply to #224510)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
There are no photos, unfortunately, of the interior/dash board area of the 'Sonny Benson' D501, and Mopar Collector's Guide used second (third?-) hand information to prepare that article--which I understand/understood, back then, anyway, that they commonly did do, in ghost-writing their articles.

In other words, they used somebody else's information to flesh out their own article, as if they themselves had inspected a car and interviewed its owner.

In this instance, I did contact MCG in attempting to contact S. Benson, and received a very cold shoulder from whomever I spoke with, there, in 1991, who apparently believed that I was only interested in buying the car (why should HE have cared about that?) ; but, more importantly, I received the distinct understanding that MCG had no 1st hand knowledge about any contact information on Mr. Benson, and, that they had no additional detail information on the car or its current whereabouts.

Mr. Benson, being a former Corp Honcho, could very well have arranged to...(AND, if I recall the article.....DID) modify the car to have a T/Flite in it.

The A.M.A. specifications on the D501 state that the T/flite was optionally-available on the 501's, but, the fact remains that none of the 501's which survived have other than the 3-speed manual trannie in them.

I was going to say that none of the 90 D501s that Darrell Davis has located the IBM cards 'on' had T/Flite's....but, I'll contact him and ask him to verify the tranny-situation as listed on them.

Last time I 'spoke' to him, I think that he said that his 501 card copies were not kept at his house.








Edited by d500neil 2010-05-21 7:20 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2010-05-21 5:38 PM (#224539 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
...Just heard back from Mr. Davis: ...ALL... of the 90-located 501's came OEM with the MANUAL transmission
(and, therefore, with manual steering, too, as there was not physical room to install the P/S gearbox along
with the 3-speed manual transmission, with the 354/392 engine)...in the 1957 Dodge, and almost-certainly in the
CHRY, too.






Edited by d500neil 2010-05-21 7:23 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
horace
Posted 2010-05-22 12:14 AM (#224597 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 471
1001001001002525
Location: MN
The Rebel's were a neat looking 4dr hdtp. I think the 57 Bonnivilles were available as a tri power ???
Top of the page Bottom of the page
horace
Posted 2010-05-22 1:00 PM (#224631 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 471
1001001001002525
Location: MN
Neil, with your connection to Davis could you please present what colors the D501s were Bulit as? I know you think in terms of # my brain relates to colors.
Yes, I know there is info on 92 and that is alot but. We had an always available red & white in our town in about 59. I saw a red & white @ Mopar Nationals w/ Ill plates oh so long ago. YOUR UP. Thank you
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2010-05-22 3:43 PM (#224650 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
D501's were built in every OEM color scheme that was available.

Solids and 2-tones.

Seemingly, a lot of them were red/white, but I know of an all Moonstone Gray car (long-gone).

What's really interesting about them is the fact that so many of them had an array of options on them, including
rear window defrosters, and tinted sun visors.

Haven't seen any that had signal seeking radios, or power windows (power [front-] windows was available on
the 2-dr sedans, and the 2-dr Suburbans, which have quarter-windows that do not retract), or: A/C !

The red/white (former-real drag race car) that you remember seeing was originally ordered/bought by Arnie
Beswick, and sold to drag racer Lee Smith, around 1959--Lee still owns that car, and which, until the last several years, had been on-loan to the Don Garlits Racing Museum in FL.











Edited by d500neil 2010-05-22 3:49 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mogge65
Posted 2010-05-22 8:30 PM (#224701 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1295
1000100100252525
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=0&nid=443&tab=list/view&ad=2376207

Edited by mogge65 2010-05-22 8:33 PM




(11205414.jpg)



(11205420.jpg)



(11205436.jpg)



(11205448.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 11205414.jpg (57KB - 276 downloads)
Attachments 11205420.jpg (61KB - 250 downloads)
Attachments 11205436.jpg (54KB - 251 downloads)
Attachments 11205448.jpg (41KB - 260 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2010-05-22 9:55 PM (#224714 - in reply to #224701)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
I just talked to Chad about his 1957 Dodge sedan. He is a Packard and Studebaker man and doesn't know much about the Chryslers. It is not a Hemi. It looks solid but it has been outside for many-many years. The Desoto has sunk down but the Dodge seems to be off the ground. There is body damage on the right side. He is going to send me more pictures and do an underbody inspection. Dave
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mogge65
Posted 2010-05-23 5:48 AM (#224734 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1295
1000100100252525
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN
David, it sure is a nice candidate for a "clone" D501 and build a junior stock Drag car
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2010-05-23 8:55 PM (#224851 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
LOL, Morgan!!!!

...Do you know what the easiest/cheapest cost is, in owning a horse?


...The purchase price.


Do you know what the easist/cheapest cost/operation is, in cloning a D501?

Buying the body.

A D501 is extremely difficult to fake/clone/tribute/replicate, due to the immense amount of heavy duty equipment on it,
that mostly, but not exclusively, comes from a donor-1957 Imperial, plus a stationwagon, a 1956 Imperial, and misc/sundry
300-type engine compnents, a 354 truck Hemi, and then, there's the small matter of the VIN and P/T plates.

If someone were going to go thru 'this' much trouble, it would be nice if he was re-creating a particular car, due to the great
variance in the OEM equipment which was installed on the 501's.

A stripper 501 would certainly be a handful to drive around town (manual steering [all-] and brakes, and that horrible 3-speed [all-] ), when
coupled to that huge engine, and rock-solid suspension.




Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2010-05-24 12:56 AM (#224886 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
I am actually cloning a D-501 with my current Coronet and I agree completely with Neil. It is not an easy task. After buying my Coronet many years ago I naively thought all I needed was a 300B engine which I bought for next to nothing. Then the more I learned about the 501, I realized a 501 engine really has little in common with a 300B engine. I am only using the heads and rotating assembly, everything else is different, coming from, as Neil mentioned, 300C and truck engines. The valve covers are unique to the 501 and I was fortunate enough to find a set. When I learned what the rest of a 501 really was, it was a bit discouraging but I decided I am in no hurry and I like the hunt for parts as much as driving it. I have a ways to go, but I have made a lot of progress on collecting parts. My engine is 90% there, needing only a Poly 354 block (I passed on an original, but damaged, 501 block). The point of no return came when I found an NOS trunk emblem. I figured if I could find that then I can find most everything else.

I hadn't considered cloning a particular car, but the idea is intriquing. I was makng mine a zero option stripper so if one of those 90 IBM cards is like that then that would be something I would consider. Dave

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2010-05-24 8:35 AM (#224914 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1117
1000100
Location: STL, MO
Other than the numbers is the block visually different? 90% there all you need is a block- that optimism! I am glad my 65 doesnt actually have a A-990 badge, the sectioned grille and scoop are racehemi only but to actually affix the emblem on there I would have grief with that and I would have to be dead-on correct,no artistic license (shortcuts), Dont get me wrong I am not razzing you I am hip deep in a "close" clone myself and it's not easy or cheap,there are alot of 65'Racehemi's out there so I can deviate, but you are out there virtually alone, I respect your tenacity to go all the way. You could try Ken Jack at Hemi's Unlimited on the truck or Poly block.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mogge65
Posted 2010-05-24 10:06 AM (#224922 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1295
1000100100252525
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN
Boys, i think i refrase my last statement to : a perfect candidate for a "LOOKALIKE" , what i meant by clone is a similar car with similar performace! not a nut and bolt replica! there are way to many of those outthere as it is (mostly 300s and convertibles)! hope we can get more pic´s to stare at

Edited by mogge65 2010-05-24 10:07 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2010-05-24 11:07 AM (#224928 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
I haven't been able to do a side by side comparison of the various blocks. I have the 300B and a truck block but apparently they are machined differently for the oil sump pickup. I could probably make either of these blocks work, but for a bolt together setup, the 57-58 poly block is the one I should use. I am not really worried about finding one of those hence the 90%. I also should clarify, I want as close to a 501 as is reasonably achievable. I don't care about casting dates and doubt I will ever get down to the nut and bolt detail. Dave
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DeSotohead
Posted 2010-05-24 11:42 AM (#224936 - in reply to #224928)
Subject: Re: D-501



Board Moderator

Posts: 3186
20001000100252525
Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan)
Swept57 - 2010-05-24 11:07 AM

I haven't been able to do a side by side comparison of the various blocks. I have the 300B and a truck block but apparently they are machined differently for the oil sump pickup. I could probably make either of these blocks work, but for a bolt together setup, the 57-58 poly block is the one I should use. I am not really worried about finding one of those hence the 90%. I also should clarify, I want as close to a 501 as is reasonably achievable. I don't care about casting dates and doubt I will ever get down to the nut and bolt detail. Dave


I think the big difference between the truck and pass car blocks was the rear main cap was thicker, so the oil pump sits lower in the sump, and this therefore neccesitates a longer intermediate shaft between the distributor drive gear and the oil pump drive shaft.

I know the truck timing cover isn't correct (cast iron like the earlier 51-54s) and the heads are obviously wrong.
The valve covers are the "no-name" type from a Dodge Truck, but less the "Power Giant" decals (but mechanical lifter type with "bumps"). Paint color unknown to me.

Question: Why is the 57-58 354 poly block the one to use for mockup, if the actual block has a different oil pan? I can see the block would not make a difference, but the actual pan on the block could for suspension/steering parts clearance......unless the pan only fits a truck block if the rear pan seal/main seal section is different. Then only a truck block/pan (or D501 pan if unique) would fit that rear mani cap.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2010-05-24 12:57 PM (#224947 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
The Windsor 354 Polys used the same oil pan as the 501. I have to admit, I haven't investigated this aspect thoroughly and I am relying on a guy that has been building early Hemi's for 40 years. That is one reason I haven't actual bought the poly block. I want to verify what he has told me.

I have seen a number of Dodge truck valve covers. None have had the bumps for mechanical lifters or the coil bracket welded to the driver's side cover. I suspect that some trucks had mechanical lifters, but I am pretty sure the coil bracket is 501 unique. To my knowledge the engines were painted the same color as the D500, so the valve covers would be red.



(b0_1.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments b0_1.jpg (12KB - 239 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2010-05-24 2:39 PM (#224954 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Right, the valve covers are red, and the engine is Corp-Silver.

Air cleaners are usually gloss black, but the car that was discovered recently in OR has air cleaners that have residual OEM WHITE paint all over them, and with RED paint around their interior areas---bizarre, but apparently OEM.

How far 'you' go in cloning a car depends on your diligence, and luck, as far as re-stamping the engine block, and
finding a date-cast-coded 354 engine block which would be close to the engine's (re-)stamping-number, and the car's VIN,
and the P/T plate information, and installing date coded 300C carburetors on it.

Also, owing to their limited production, there was a variance in their engine stamping protocols.

These would be the visual confirmations on the engine.

Internally, the engine would need a 300C crankshaft, and 300D (fuelie-) intake valves (1821241, at your local Parts
counter) and don't forget to scoop up these 1959 mufflers: 1943922, while you're there).

The Dodge truck valve covers came off of the D900 354 tractor, which featured dual 2-bbl carbs.

That engine block might serve as a basis for your build-up, but its heads are very restrictive, to provide for as
much low end torque as possible, so, they will not work, without considerable re-working of them.

The D900 will give you the 4-bolt exhaust manifolds, that any self-respecting clone must have on it.

Between Lee Smith's 501 and another one in SoCal (dunno about the 501 vert that is being restored, now, in the Frisco-area), there WAS some necessary modification on one of their oil pans (State secret), so, one of them probably got a truck oil pan, and the other one, a 354 car 'pan'.

Another very difficult to find piece(s) are the HD optional-Coronet/Royal torsion bars.---hint: go find a Taxi
or a Police Pursuit or a true Export car--maybe a HD-stationwagon; but that's probably a less-common find
than will be a Taxi/Pursuit/Export car.

The 7-leaf rear springs will be found on these cars, only, as the Dodges have a shorter leaf spring-length than do
the Des/CHY/IMP models, which might-will have 7-leafers be installed on them.

David forgot to mention the 1956 IMP donor car, that will have to provide its wheels, brakes and steering knuckles (with their oversize spindle diameters).

This whole procedure would probably be a lot easier if 'you' will just go out and buy a D501, on Ebay
or Craigslist.












Edited by d500neil 2010-05-24 3:12 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2010-05-24 3:26 PM (#224958 - in reply to #224954)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
d500neil - 2010-05-24 11:39 AM
This whole procedure would probably be a lot easier if 'you' will just go out and buy a D501, on Ebay
or Craigslist.


I looked at about a dozen but couldn't find one in the color I wanted so I decided to clone.

So the coil bracket is on the D900 valve cover? I've got most of the Imp stuff. Unfortunately its all back in Ohio but will make its way here when I am ready for it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2010-05-24 3:39 PM (#224960 - in reply to #224958)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Yeah, what you have there, in the photo, is the valve cover off of a 1957 Dodge D501, or, off
of a 1957-1959(??) D900 354 truck engine, or off of a 300B (which has had the 'Firepower'
embossments be removed from them).

I'd get started on those T/bars and leaf springs, before they go NS-1 .







Edited by d500neil 2010-05-24 3:43 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2010-05-24 4:59 PM (#224973 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
Those valve covers are off of engine # D501-1021. I have 300B valve covers and they don't have a coil bracket.



(f9_1.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments f9_1.jpg (12KB - 218 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2010-05-24 5:12 PM (#224976 - in reply to #224973)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
OOPS; what I was recalling is my close-up photo of a 1957 300C engine,
and it's coil bracket, which is brazed onto the valve cover.

I found my photo of the oil-bath Bat-Winged 300B engine, and sure-enuf:
the coil is mounted onto the passenger's side of the intake manifold.

You can (try-to; it's a complicated stamping) copy the shape of the 300C
coil bracket, to mount it onto a modified 300B driver's side valve cover.










Edited by d500neil 2010-05-24 5:43 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2010-05-24 5:55 PM (#224990 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
Well, I won't have to go through that trouble because I own the valve covers in the picture.

A 300C crank? The 392 has a longer stroke than the 354. Did you mean 300B crank?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2010-05-24 6:46 PM (#224999 - in reply to #224990)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Yeah, RTFSS--Read the F'ing Specs Sheets.

It's the 'standard' D501 camshaft that has the same grind, as the 300C, but, the camshafts do not interchange, as the 300C
is 5.09" long, and the 501 is 5.03" long, but, there is/was a more radical camshaft that was optionally available on the 501, just as
there is/was one for the 390HP 300C, but the AMA specs don't provide Duration/Overlap information on them, so it's kinda
hard to compare their aggressiveness-es...

So, you'll probably have to grind a 300B camshaft--altho I don't have its AMA Spec Sheets.




Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2010-05-24 8:16 PM (#225025 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
OK, camshafts, but in your post above you said 300C crankshaft.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mogge65
Posted 2010-05-24 9:04 PM (#225033 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1295
1000100100252525
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN
http://www.flickr.com/photos/atomic_blondes/3710395878/in/photostre...

Edited by mogge65 2010-05-24 9:06 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DeSotohead
Posted 2010-05-25 9:08 AM (#225081 - in reply to #225025)
Subject: Re: D-501



Board Moderator

Posts: 3186
20001000100252525
Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan)
The crank has to be from a 354, as the mains are larger on the 392 as well as the increased stroke. I think what Neil is referring to is the special processing of the 300B/300C cranks with the nitriding as well as the rolled-fillets for the rod journals.
There is also the possibility that the cranks/rods/piston assemblies were picked for balance factor as well.

As for the camshafts, the 354s and 392 will not interchange due to the lobe seperation difference due to the raised deck versus low deck blocks.
So the camshafts would be unique due to this fact alone.

As for the standard versus optional 300B camshafts, you might speak with Chris Neilsen of Neilsen Cams in Farmington, Utah.
He has a depth of knowledge on these old engines, and also has produced new cam blanks, so he might be able to grind you an accurate replacement of potentially either lobe profile....

Neil....nice to know where the D501 valve covers were sourced. I heard when I was working at Chrysler from one of the engineers that worked on the Bendix Electrojector EFI program that the covers came from a Dodge Truck application, but never found out WHICH application it was. Obviously the the finishing for the engine was unique as to color scheme....

Also, David, I notice in the pictire of the D501 engine ID number that it looks like the timing cover is painted red. Is this what the originals were painted, as most of the Chrysler and DeSoto and Dodge engines I have seen had the timing covers, whether cast or stamped painted the Silver color of the rest of the engine.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2010-05-25 1:37 PM (#225116 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1117
1000100
Location: STL, MO
Did the NHRA ever factor the 354? or the 501? they go back to the 50's for chev for stock and S/S but I don't think for the MoPars and there are a few 55-57 chevs still competing at the US Nats every year...it would be good to give them some competition.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2010-05-25 5:21 PM (#225174 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
That's Lee Smith's ride, in Morgan's photo.

Took a road trip with Lee to a Detroit WPC National Meet, in the early 90's, in this car--full manual former race
car, which was delivered with the 4.89 gear set in it.

Lee had installed the 2.93 'pig' in the car, so it didn't burn any rubber on the trip, but got over 17MPG on the
highway!

Yeah, the entire engine is painted 'silver', except for the valve covers, which are the Dodge-Red, as seen in Dave's photo.

As far as published articles on the D501 are concerned, the only one known to mankind is the 10/58 Rod & Custom,
which features the very nice article :"Revamped Ram".

In it, the owner (and /or the car, which i DID try to track-down, un-successfully, via the OR MVD) applied considerable
internal hot-rodding to the car (but, RETAINED its OEM .444-lift 300C equilavent-spec'ed camshaft), after boring
it to 365 c.i.), and replacing the trannie with a '37 Lasalle, which, itself, was further modified, to try to accommodate
all of its torque.

Anyway, the car was reportedly run at a Strip, but neither the trap speed, E.T., or the car's Classification was confirmed in the article.

Altho not confirmed in the article, I suspect that this car was of early production.

Arnie Beswick (original owner of Lee's car) reportedly preferred the performance of his 1956 D-500-1 race car, because, I believe, that he found that he could not put-down all of the 501's HP, to the pavement.

The 56 version was 'rated' at 295 HP---which, an OEM factory 3-speed could handle, starting off in 2nd gear, and shifting only once, with the 6.17 (?-IIRC) gear set.


...I just happened to re-read my comment, above here, about : "RTFSS"...and that comment was directed
to MYSELF, as an admonishment , so it should have said (to be perfectly clear)..."RTFSS, Neil...."








Edited by d500neil 2010-05-25 5:45 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mogge65
Posted 2010-05-25 8:33 PM (#225211 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1295
1000100100252525
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN
I found this on "another Mopar site"International Christine Club I qoute: I bought and built this 57 Dodge BI (Before Internet). I went to wrecking yard in Tucson with friend to pick up a door for his project car and it was sitting at the very front of the yard and at a glance didn’t look too bad. A bit of rust in the rear quarters and rockers and a couple of dents but other than the carb and distributor missing it was complete. As my buddy was paying for the door I asked what they wanted for the old Dodge (figuring the answer would be quite a bit more than I was willing to pay, but I was curious).. I was told “two and a half” just to be sure I said “two hundred and fifty?” “Yup, and I do have a clear title on it.”

Anyway I went out took one more walk around it went back in and wrote a check.
After I got it home I picked up a 77 Chrysler New Yorker (440 powered) to use as a donor car. The first 2 things that got transplanted were the 440 (which I had to modify the pan on to make fit), Torqueflight (with a ratchet shifter) and 9 ¼” rear end which happed to have a 3.21 posi in it.

While I was parting out the 77 I noticed that the steering knuckles looked very close dimensionally to the front spindles on the Dodge (I believe this was before AAJ was doing disc brake conversions, but at any rate long before I had heard of Roger). A little bit of machine work on the spindles to convert them from large to medium ball joints and some trimming on tie rods etc and I had big front disc brakes.

The car would move under it’s own power and stop and it pretty much stayed that way until 1995 when I decided to finish it and drive I back to Illinois for my 25th High School reunion. After the decision was made to finish the car over the next 90 days (7 days a week) I repaired the rust in the quarters, put in new rocker panels and a couple of patches in the floor. I found and went thru a low mileage 1969 440 (10:1 compression) including the installation of a 390 HP Six Pac cam, and mated that to a 64 Torqueflight that I also went thru so I could run the pushbuttons. The rear springs were changed out for a set of Super Stock springs and a set of Chrysler Rally wheels were modified to accept the original 57 Dog Dish hubcaps. Just about the time I thought I had the motor done I found a 1957 dual quad intake at a swap meet (cheap), unfortunately it was for a B motor (350) and not an RB. After some research I figured out that I could use a set if spacer plates s that Mopar Performance was selling at the time for use with their stage VI heads (PN P5249189 which I don’t think is any longer available). Anyway they worked like a champ and I had dual quads which I dug up a pair of 57 air cleaner lids for. I painted the car back to a metallic gold and white and installed new tinted glass and upholstery. Electronic ignition, power steering, air conditioning and cruise control were also added.

I wouldn’t consider the car extremely quick (due mostly to the 3.21 gears and the design of the dual quad intake) but it was OMG FAST and made the 3000 mile round trip to Illinois and back without missing a beat (or too many gas stations LOL).

I had a lot of fun with the car for the 5 years I drove it after it was done, and probably would not have sold it if I hadn’t found my 57 Plymouth to build.
Last edited by Mike P on Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total

Edited by mogge65 2010-05-25 8:47 PM




(57Dodge.jpg)



(57Dodge1.jpg)



(325Poly.jpg)



(57DodgePass-1.jpg)



(440.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 57Dodge.jpg (44KB - 219 downloads)
Attachments 57Dodge1.jpg (39KB - 249 downloads)
Attachments 325Poly.jpg (53KB - 232 downloads)
Attachments 57DodgePass-1.jpg (93KB - 230 downloads)
Attachments 440.jpg (65KB - 224 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mogge65
Posted 2010-05-27 10:22 PM (#225550 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1295
1000100100252525
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN
I found this in "old" Forwardlook section.
Forward Lookers, While we ponder the prospect of the "392 Commando Plymouth,"
there are two articles on surviving D501 Dodges you may want to locate for
your enjoyment. First in "The Second Annual Hemi Muscle" 1996 by the editors
of High Performance Mopar, "D501 TO BEAT" features a 57 Coronet 2dr sedan
D501 with a three speed manual and no radio or heater, super Heavy Duty and
Super Rare. If that don't wind yer clock then check out the Sept. 91 Mopar
Collectors Guide- "Killing Mice With A Sledgehammer" -This article features
an original unrestored 57 Coronet D501 Convertible. Can You Say WOW! Owned by
a former Chrysler exec this car is rarely shown, its 354 Dual Quad Racing
Hemi is coupled to a Torqueflite (for us daily drivers the car also has a
heater). In 57 these cars were intended to "hit" the racing circuits but
without the likes of Carl Kiekhaefer and Lee Petty to campaign them, and
coupled with a factory ban on race promotion that hit Chrysler particularly
hard, it wasn't to be. Even though they lack the racing heritage I am sure
they would have eyes a poppin' at today's car shows. T

Edited by mogge65 2010-05-27 10:24 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2010-05-28 4:02 PM (#225619 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
The D501 to Beat is (now) Lee Smith's car.

The MCG article's convertible reportedly was owned by Sonny Benson at that time, reportedly a former Corp executive.

The MCG article, as I previously mentioned, was ghost-written, and there was not any other background info available
on either the car or its, or its owner's whereabouts, back in 1991.

I'd asked former Corp VP, and Historical Society researcher, Darrell Davis if he knew (of) Mr. Benson, and
got a negative response.

That 1991 article is the only published information on that vert, which is one of two still known to exist.

All of the D501's had OEM 3-speed manual transmissions, but a lot of them have heaters installed, including the
Special Ordered Kiekaefer 501 hardtop.




Top of the page Bottom of the page
mogge65
Posted 2010-06-07 12:58 PM (#226820 - in reply to #224714)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1295
1000100100252525
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN

Swept57 - 2010-05-23 3:55 AM

I just talked to Chad about his 1957 Dodge sedan. He is a Packard and Studebaker man and doesn't know much about the Chryslers. It is not a Hemi. It looks solid but it has been outside for many-many years. The Desoto has sunk down but the Dodge seems to be off the ground. There is body damage on the right side. He is going to send me more pictures and do an underbody inspection. Dave
                

Did you get any pic´s from Chad?

Top of the page Bottom of the page
300XMAN
Posted 2015-05-02 9:24 AM (#477152 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501


Regular

Posts: 62
2525
The 1955-56 Chrysler 300s had to compete in the NASCAR Grand National Division using the stock 280 degree cam. There were at least two optional camshafts released for the Dodge D500-1 Coronets during the 1956 season. Even though they had factory part numbers, they were not "factory" cams. Charlie Strang, using the cam profile checking machine and cam grinder at Kiekhaefer Corporation, created and evaluated all sorts of grinds for the Dodge racing engines. Chevy and Pontiac grinds were heavily tested in at least one D500-1 V8. Concerning the D501, Carl Kiekhaefer either took the engine (#KD501-1001) out of his 1957 D501 and built it up to racing engine specs or built up a new engine from scratch and designated it H22. In any event, he got a high of 369 hp out of the 354 cube V8 during dyno testing in the fall of 1957. I passed along many of the dyno testing highlights to Neil the other year. Carl later sold the D501 to Jack Leek. The car's last known whereabouts were Waukegan, Illinois in the early 1960s.
Mopar Collector's Guide editor Rob Wolf and I are trying to get Charlie Strang to come out to Chryslers at Carlisle this year and attend the Hall of Fame banquet. At 94 years old, Charlie still travels, but no longer drives. Both Carl Kiekhaefer and Charlie Strang are going to be 2015 Mopar Hall of Fame inductees for their groundbreaking contributions to Chrysler's stock car racing program during the mid-1950s.

Edited by 300XMAN 2015-05-02 4:25 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-05-03 3:44 AM (#477209 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Karl; good old info, here; were/are you merely putting this thread, to 'bed' ?

At any rate, it's good that you confirmed/documented ANOTHER difference between the all-mighty
unique D501 car MODEL, and the lesser (performing, and built-up) 300B model.



Top of the page Bottom of the page
300XMAN
Posted 2015-05-04 7:53 AM (#477307 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501


Regular

Posts: 62
2525
Neil,

As you know, much has been learned about ECK's D501 since 2012. Let's share some of the highlights from Carl's extensive dyno testing of his D501 engine:
Work commenced on 11/16/57. Engine aerohoned .004 piston clearance-Crossflow #1 camshaft-valves and pistons polished
10-1 Heads (97 cc) Block cut to .119 from top of piston to deck-using “57” intake manifold and “57” carter carbs 57 air cleaners
WH #40 oil. Timing set @8 degrees for break in NA 10 shorts .025 new upflow exhaust manafolds
New copper lead bearings throughout engine-full flow oil system
RL 50 plugs
New calibrated Dist.
Timing set @32 degrees @4000 best power setting manual
1.75 turns on high speed adj on carbs
Replace plugs different RL50s
Reset tappets hot .018 as engine H-21. Same cam
2.5 turns open on high speed adj on carbs
¾ turns open on high speed adj. on carbs.
½ turn open on high speed adj. on carbs.
Remove “57” carter carbs and install different set “57” carters.
“57” C-300 int man. Upflow Ex. man. “57” C-300 air cleaners
AUTO-LITE 2X3-new dist.
Best power setting manual 28 degrees @4000
Air cleaners removed
369 hp @ 5530 rpm on 11/22/57
{Intervening tests concerned primarily with mufflers and exhaust pipes—my note}
Run engine with stock C-300 exhaust manafolds and pipes
{302 hp @ 5425 rpm on 11/22/57; Similar variables through 12/12/57—my notes}
As of 2/25/58: Removed cam. Cannot install “57” cam in “56” engine because of change in block depth. Changes cam index—Bearings OK rings OK Replaced Cf #1 cam with stock 300 B cam “56”. “57” intake man. “57” carbs—upflow ex. man. with straight 3” pipe 4”x16.5” dual cleaner. Autolite 2X3 plugs new WH#40 oil—new oil filter.
NOTES: I edited the above as little as possible for clarity/readability. Cf #1=Iskenderian Crossflow #1 camshaft.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
58coupe
Posted 2015-05-04 9:56 AM (#477315 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1739
100050010010025
Location: Alaska
Interesting, he lost 67 HP when running through the stock exhaust. Does anyone have the specs. on that isky cam and is that .119 piston above the deck?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2015-05-04 1:21 PM (#477324 - in reply to #477315)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9604
500020002000500100
Location: So. Cal
Please explain to me the motor components in detail. I can understand that the valve covers are of the truck variety & exhaust are 300C. That makes sense. But a truck block, heads, & water pump are completely different from the car components; and the pictures I have seen do not show a truck block, heads, & water pump. They look like a car block & heads from 1957. So why the talk about the truck oil pump??? The 354 poly oil pan is exactly the same as the 392 oil pan - center sump. Also, the 354 poly water pump & crossover are the same as the 392 which is what I see on these motors. Did the motor use a 354 poly block? If so, the only difference between a 354 poly block & 354 hemi block that I know of are the stamped number, casting numbers, and the pushrod hole reliefs in the poly block which would be unneeded and unseen with the hemi heads in place.

I have attached a 354 hemi truck motor for comparison. Notice the heads have no crossover, the wet intake manifold, large oil pan and the unusual water pump. This is not what I see in the 501.

Edited by Powerflite 2015-05-04 1:42 PM




(354 Dodge Hemi Complete.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 354 Dodge Hemi Complete.jpg (33KB - 202 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-05-05 1:45 AM (#477372 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
ALL of The D501's (102-ish pre-built RACE CAR models, which happened to be sold to the public....) were built OEM with
the 354 c.i. Dodge TRUCK exhaust manifolds.

The 501's have the 1957 Chrysler Windsor 354 c.i. engine blocks in them, because the 354 Windsor block was the only
one (354) that was readily available, at that time.

So, technically, there are very FEW...300-B components that were installed in the D501 racecar models.


Top of the page Bottom of the page
300XMAN
Posted 2015-05-05 1:04 PM (#477413 - in reply to #477315)
Subject: Re: D-501


Regular

Posts: 62
2525
The pistons may have been even with the deck, but should not have been above the deck. I will have to look around and see if there are any published specs on the Isky cam.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2015-05-05 4:02 PM (#477421 - in reply to #477372)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
d500neil - 2015-05-05 1:45 AM

So, technically, there are very FEW...300-B components that were installed in the D501 racecar models.


From what I can tell, MAYBE the rotating assembly and the heads are the same as 300B. The 501 did have unique exhaust valves. In the near future I hope to do a side-by-side of the internal components of my 501 and 300B engines. And Neil is correct, the 501 used a Windsor poly block.

Edited by Swept57 2015-05-05 4:05 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-05-05 7:40 PM (#477435 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
d500neil - 2015-05-05 7:35 PM

...YUP, because only the 354 Windsor block was available for 'mass production', in MY 1957.

BTW (too lazy, now/here to look it up,) but the Windsor blocks were ALSO slightly modified (slight over-bore)
from their initial A.M.A. 'stock'-specifications...but were built/assembled with the OK-blessings of NASCAR.

So, it is absolutely correct to say that the D501 MODELS have unique engine(s) blocks, too,
and that they were NOT 1956 "300B" engines.

They were/used 1957 Windsor 354 c.i. engine blocks in them; just ANOTHER unique feature
of these car MODELS.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
300XMAN
Posted 2015-05-11 9:56 AM (#477985 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501


Regular

Posts: 62
2525
I believe the letter in question originated from Dodge Division, with Carl Kiekhaefer receiving a copy. I do not believe there was an official response from NASCAR on the matter. By the end of April, NASCAR instituted its single four-barrel rule, which stayed in effect through 2012. Buck Baker, who was campaigning a Black Widow Chevy in 1957, told me that he removed the Rochester fuel injection and installed a four-barrel set-up to get legal. It is known that Carl Kiekhaefer had a 390 hp Chrysler 300C and a Dodge D501 by March 1957, but he never fielded a race team after 1956. By the end of April, both the 300Cs and D501s would have been required to run in the NASCAR Grand National Division with a 1x4 barrel set-up, but no one did so. The tax man was not the reason Carl got out of NASCAR, according to Charlie Strang. Main culprit was the siphoning off of Kiekhaefer Corporation engineering talent and cash for the racing program, which compromised the R&D of Mercury Outboards. Charlie had to work on design/engineering updates without Carl finding out, otherwise he would have been fired!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-05-31 8:25 PM (#479995 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
I'd seen this letter-to-Editor, before, but lost its reference, until today, when I re-discovered it, in a re-reading of
the 9/62 Car Life.

By then, the The D501....CAR MODELS....had become long-forgotten.

This 'letter' should warm the hearts of all the D501-Deniers, out there, who can not accept that the D501's
were a UNIQUE car model, unto themselves, with a complete production run of 102 examples (and with only
92 of those cars' creation having been (able to be) located/documented, to date, by the CHS (and Corp. researcher
Darrell Davis).





(PICT4594.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments PICT4594.JPG (115KB - 256 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jimntempe
Posted 2015-05-31 9:07 PM (#479998 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 2312
2000100100100
Location: Arizona
Found this on Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Coronet

Fourth generation (1957–1959)[edit]
See also 1957 Dodge

1958 Dodge Coronet coupe

1959 Dodge Coronet coupe
1957 saw the debut of the new D-501, which replaced the D-500 from the year before as the top Coronet. The D-501 received Chrysler's proven 354 cid Hemi V8, which were actually left over engines from the 1956 Chrysler 300B production. Camshafts from the 1957 Chrysler 392 cid engines were installed in the 354 V8s for added kick. Topped with a pair of Carter four barrel carbs and sporting a 10.0:1 compression ratio, the new engine put out 340 bhp (250 kW). Other changes included the addition of the Torsion-Aire Ride (torsion bar) front suspension[1] and a heavy duty suspension with heavy duty shock absorbers and a heavy duty leaf sprung rear. A 3.73:1 rear axle was standard with the three-speed manual transmission, but automatic cars received a 3.18:1 rear axle. There were 13 optional rear axles available, ranging from 2.92:1 through 6.17:1. The D-501 received 7.60x15 tires wrapped around 15x8 inch wheels. Brakes were impressive 12-inch (300 mm) diameter drums. Only 101 D-501s were produced. A padded dash was optional.[11]
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-05-31 9:25 PM (#480004 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Ah, where do we begin...?

The D501 had almost NOTHING in common with the 1956 and/or 1957 Chryslers...including the 300B and 300C
models (read the above posts...ain't gonna re-hash all that information, here)....EXCEPT that the basic engine
block that was used in the 501's was the 1957 (not: 1956) 354 c.i. Chrysler 'Windsor' block, which happened to be
still-available for/on Canadian built Custom Royals.

There were NO (as in: ....NO)...) automatic transmission D501's built...unless one of the 10 un-accounted-for 501 VIN's
had one in them installed in it.

Virtually EVERY available trim-item was individually-installed, in various 501's, including rear window defrosters and
tinted plastic sun visors, Custom Coronet motifs.....and colors.

...the factory loaded-up almost all of the 501's (which had been pre-scheduled for production,
in 1957) in order to make them more physically attractive, easier to sell, and
more individually profitable.

D501 serial-production began in MAR 1957, and ended in JUN 1957 (after relatively-random factory
building of them; no production "runs" of them were made.





Edited by d500neil 2015-05-31 9:41 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jimntempe
Posted 2015-05-31 9:59 PM (#480008 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 2312
2000100100100
Location: Arizona
Why not edit the wiki entry?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chrycoman
Posted 2015-06-01 12:01 AM (#480019 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1819
1000500100100100
Location: Vancouver, BC
In 1957 the 354 poly engine was used on US-built C75-1 Windsors (2-bbl carb) and C75-2 Saratogas (4-bbl carb) and on Canadian-built C75-2 Windsors (2-bbl carb). It was not available on Canadian-built 1957 Custom Royal models which used the A-block 313 poly. The D-501 was the only hemi 354 in 1957 and was available only on Dodge Coronet models.

For 1958 the Canadian-built Dodge Custom Royal and DeSoto Firedome used the 354 poly as well as the Chrysler Windsor. The B block was not used in Canadian production for 1958. The last Canadian-built models with hemi engines were the 1956 Chrysler New Yorker. 1956 DeSoto Firedome and Fireflite and the 1955 Dodge Custom Royal. No 1957 New Yorkers, Firedomes and Fireflites were built in Canada - they were all imported from Detroit. And the Canadian-built 1956 Dodge Custom Royal used the A block 303 poly with a 2-bbl carb. The Canadian-built 1956 Chrysler Windsor used the A block 303 poly with a 4-bbl carb.




Edited by Chrycoman 2015-06-01 12:05 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-06-01 4:16 AM (#480027 - in reply to #480019)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Thanks; for 1957, the Dodge D501's used the 354 c.i. "Windsor" engine blocks in them (because they
were, otherwise, still readily available).

And, they were the ONLY 354 c.i. Hemi engines that were installed in the 1957 model year, and, in D501's-only.

Just another couple examples of the uniqueness of the D501 car MODELS.



Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2015-06-01 4:44 PM (#480064 - in reply to #480027)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9604
500020002000500100
Location: So. Cal
It is interesting that the 354 poly motor from a '57 Saratoga (with a 4bbl) put out more power & torque than a 354 hemi from a '56 New Yorker. The '56 hemi motor had 9.0 compression, and the poly 9.25, not a big difference. And the exhaust was likely worse on the '57 motor. So why the increase? My guess is the camshaft. They may have used a cam with a better profile - more similar to the 392 profile, but I don't have the specs.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-06-03 12:40 PM (#480310 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: RE: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
AND NOW...further to differentiate the 1956 Chrysler 300B engine parameters, and the
1957 Dodge D501 RACE CAR's engine...

The 300 B engine has a bore/stroke of of 3.94 x 3.63 = 354.06 c.i.

As confirmed in the attached letter from Bill France, to NASCAR, of 3/13/57 (which date coincides
with the beginning of the D501's formal production run, of about 99 cars (with at least three additional pre-
formal-production cars having been built, with VIN'S assigned to them = 102 theorized total production; 92
cars/VIN's have been located by the CHS, todate).....

.....Dodge discovered "production difficulties" in building the 354 c.i.race engines, and, so,
determined that it needed to bore-out the production D501 engines 30-thousanths over-specification, or:

3.97 x 3.63 = 359.47 c.i.

SO: not only did the D501 RACE CAR engine utilize a different engine block (354 Windsor) from
the 300B engine, but, the Dodge-block was 'BIGGER' than the 300B engine!

And: bigger IS "different-from"....


....Don't let ANYONE try to tell you that the D501 race cars (which project happened, eventually, to be
abandoned by Dodge, and with most of its scheduled production run having been sold to the general public
as being 'civilianized' cars).....were not real, legitimate, unique CAR MODELS.


What makes this designation so interesting is that the D501 represents the SMALLEST post WWII
unique-model production MoPar.


The 1956 D-500-1 car model's actual production numbers are not confirmed, but they were more-or-
less Skunk-Worked, at the Engineering Department and/or at the Proving Grounds, as opposed
to their having been formally assembled/built on a dedicated assembly line.













Edited by d500neil 2015-06-03 1:16 PM




(PICT4605.JPG)



(PICT4602.JPG)



(PICT4604.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments PICT4605.JPG (145KB - 251 downloads)
Attachments PICT4602.JPG (176KB - 277 downloads)
Attachments PICT4604.JPG (179KB - 264 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Lancer Mike
Posted 2015-06-03 3:43 PM (#480327 - in reply to #480310)
Subject: RE: D-501



5000200020005001002525
Location: The Mile High City
Interesting: so by the wording of the letter, a "high percentage" of the 354 blocks were bored 0.03 over, but we cannot presume that all of them were. Therefore, there may be two varieties of D501 - a low percentage 354 and a high percentage 359 (we will round down). I am guessing the 359s were stamped just like a 354 and might have the coding for a 0.03 over bore.

To my eyes, the letter is a notice to NASCAR from Dodge that we blue-printed our 354 for the racing season and don't freak out later if we start winning and you find out about the 0.03 over bore. We wrote you a letter - this is it.

Edited by Lancer Mike 2015-06-03 3:56 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-06-17 3:21 AM (#481772 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
The Dodge letter to NASCAR merely informed the latter that the Dodge D501 engine would comprise 359.47 c.i.
(if you do the math), as of 3/13/57.

What is not made clear (with Dodge metaphorically covering its Corp-ass, in not being absolutely specific, in their letter to NASCAR,
of 3/1/57, above.... is that the D501 CAR MODEL production BEGAN on 3/13/57!

Long-time readers of this thread will recall that the 1957 NASCAR season began back on 11/11/56, and that
NASCAR race #5 had occurred on 3/3/57, so, Dodge would have been getting a late start in NASCAR participation....IF....Dodge's
Corp honchos would have gone forward, but SOLO, with a NASCAR racing program.

The Corporate suits had much-earlier decided that if Kiekaefer was going to back-off from NASCAR
participation and support, then, the Corp, too, would lose interest in the project, and bail out...even though 100+ (102, including three
"early" prototypes which received VIN's).....cars had been pre-approved and budgeted for production.

OK, that's all old news.


What's new, here, is this article from the 5/55(!) Motor Trend, which discusses in detail how-and-what a SERIOUS
corporate effort involves, in preparation for NASCAR Speed Weeks competition.

The above is mentioned because, in direct contrast to the 1957 Dodge's NON-interest in participating in NASCAR
racing....their 1955-1956 (Kiekaefer supported) racing efforts were VERY productive.

And so, with no further ado, here's how DeSoto supported NASCAR (Speedweeks) competition, in 1955....





Edited by d500neil 2015-06-17 3:35 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-06-17 3:31 AM (#481773 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
OH; dayuum....

Made a PdF file out of the 5-page article!

...Can't post PdF's to our threads; only Jpegs.

Tomorrow, will take Jpeg photos from each page of the article, and post those pics to this thread.

Stay tuned.


...This article was a major PITA to copy and post here; again, it appears in the 5/55 issue of MT.






Edited by d500neil 2015-06-17 12:06 PM




(1.JPG)



(2.JPG)



(3.JPG)



(4.JPG)



(5.JPG)



(6.JPG)



(7.JPG)



(8.JPG)



(9.JPG)



(10.JPG)



(11a.JPG)



(12.JPG)



(13a.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1.JPG (121KB - 254 downloads)
Attachments 2.JPG (181KB - 266 downloads)
Attachments 3.JPG (164KB - 252 downloads)
Attachments 4.JPG (122KB - 259 downloads)
Attachments 5.JPG (138KB - 275 downloads)
Attachments 6.JPG (142KB - 248 downloads)
Attachments 7.JPG (135KB - 260 downloads)
Attachments 8.JPG (129KB - 275 downloads)
Attachments 9.JPG (117KB - 263 downloads)
Attachments 10.JPG (133KB - 242 downloads)
Attachments 11a.JPG (131KB - 304 downloads)
Attachments 12.JPG (147KB - 274 downloads)
Attachments 13a.JPG (175KB - 273 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2015-06-21 8:34 PM (#482284 - in reply to #480327)
Subject: RE: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
Lancer Mike - 2015-06-03 3:43 PM

Interesting: so by the wording of the letter, a "high percentage" of the 354 blocks were bored 0.03 over, but we cannot presume that all of them were. Therefore, there may be two varieties of D501 - a low percentage 354 and a high percentage 359 (we will round down). I am guessing the 359s were stamped just like a 354 and might have the coding for a 0.03 over bore.

To my eyes, the letter is a notice to NASCAR from Dodge that we blue-printed our 354 for the racing season and don't freak out later if we start winning and you find out about the 0.03 over bore. We wrote you a letter - this is it.


If a block were over-bored they would be stamped as such. My 501 block does have some stamps that I have yet to decode. However, 0.030 seems like a large cleanup. And if this was a problem for the Windsor blocks in general, then a large percentage of Chrysler Windsors, should have an overbore as well. I'm not buying the letter, some 501 blocks were blueprinted.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2015-06-21 9:44 PM (#482293 - in reply to #482284)
Subject: RE: D-501



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9604
500020002000500100
Location: So. Cal
Lancer Mike - 2015-06-03 12:43 PM
...To my eyes, the letter is a notice to NASCAR from Dodge that we blue-printed our 354 for the racing season and don't freak out later if we start winning and you find out about the 0.03 over bore. We wrote you a letter - this is it.


Exactly. The premise of the letter is obviously bogus because there certainly aren't that many problem blocks on the production line. But since Dodge does have a "standard manufacturing practice" of allowing a .03" overbore to clean up any problem block castings that MAY occur in production, they are using that practice to justify overboring the 354 motors for racing. That means that they probably did it to all of them, just that they are not exactly stating it that way in the letter. "High percentage" is likely translated to be 100%. They are just pointing out that a .03" overbore is perfectly legal according to the rules because it is a standard manufacturing practice.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57burb
Posted 2015-06-21 10:49 PM (#482301 - in reply to #482293)
Subject: RE: D-501



Expert

Posts: 3966
200010005001001001001002525
Location: DFW, TX
Also, there seems to be a lot of discussion about running a "hotter" 392 camshaft in the D-501 354 engines. That did not happen.

A camshaft from a raised-block 392 will physically fit in a 354 (and 331) block - and vice versa - but the angles between the cam lobes and the rocker arms are different. The raised heads necessitate a slightly different lobe separation angle to keep valve events consistent relative to crankshaft position.

You could put a 392 camshaft in a 354, but it would run very poorly, if at all.

Of course, you could also grind a 331/354 cam with a 392 lobe profile, or whatever profile Kiekhaefer suggested.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-06-22 1:17 AM (#482315 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Doesn't an over-bored engine block have a Maltese Cross stamped into it, over by its engine-stamping-number area?



Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2015-06-22 9:43 AM (#482345 - in reply to #482301)
Subject: RE: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
57burb - 2015-06-21 10:49 PM

Also, there seems to be a lot of discussion about running a "hotter" 392 camshaft in the D-501 354 engines. That did not happen.

A camshaft from a raised-block 392 will physically fit in a 354 (and 331) block - and vice versa - but the angles between the cam lobes and the rocker arms are different. The raised heads necessitate a slightly different lobe separation angle to keep valve events consistent relative to crankshaft position.

You could put a 392 camshaft in a 354, but it would run very poorly, if at all.

Of course, you could also grind a 331/354 cam with a 392 lobe profile, or whatever profile Kiekhaefer suggested. ;)


I always assumed it was a 392 profile on the 354 stick.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2015-06-22 10:24 AM (#482353 - in reply to #482315)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
d500neil - 2015-06-22 1:17 AM

Doesn't an over-bored engine block have a Maltese Cross stamped into it, over by its engine-stamping-number area?



Mine has a Maltese Cross after the engine number, but according to the TSB, that has to do with undersized crank bearings. Interesting that the TSB only calls for two production bores, standard and 0.020 over. I'll look at my block again tonight to see what other stamps are on it.



(PICT0564.JPG)



(PICT0565.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments PICT0564.JPG (52KB - 244 downloads)
Attachments PICT0565.JPG (60KB - 266 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57burb
Posted 2015-06-22 12:14 PM (#482361 - in reply to #482345)
Subject: RE: D-501



Expert

Posts: 3966
200010005001001001001002525
Location: DFW, TX
David, please do document the markings on your block! How many "known" D-501 blocks are in existence?

Do you have a D-501 car that you are restoring? Just wondering how you happen to have a block for one.

Swept57 - 2015-06-22 8:43 AM

I always assumed it was a 392 profile on the 354 stick.


That is highly probable. It's just not how it was being presented on a few posts here.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-06-22 1:07 PM (#482365 - in reply to #482361)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Nobody has done a 'census' on the remaining solo engine blocks (how could 'they'?) , but, there are probably 3-5 engines
that are either installed in Clones or other hot rods or just lying around in sheds/garages.

IIRC, there are probably about 5-6 real-OEM D501 "cars" (in various states of completeness; not merely engines...
including "The Pile of Dodge" (where are you, today?)

Lee Smith has an engine, a VIN tag, and a P/T plate for another 501 sedan.

Edited by d500neil 2015-06-22 1:12 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2015-06-22 2:24 PM (#482378 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
I am aware of 8 real D-501's (5 sedans, 3 conv) remaining in various conditions. I am also aware of 6 additional engines one of which has a replacement block so it cannot be ID'ed other than the owner says it was removed from a convertible. I own the complete D501-1080 engine which was removed from a wrecked convertible sold new in Ohio.


Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-06-22 5:26 PM (#482399 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
David, could you kindly PM me with the engines/VINS that you know-of?

We should be able to develop more build info on a couple of these 8 cars...even, based upon their engine numbers!


Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2015-06-22 9:58 PM (#482427 - in reply to #482399)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
d500neil - 2015-06-22 5:26 PM

David, could you kindly PM me with the engines/VINS that you know-of?

We should be able to develop more build info on a couple of these 8 cars...even, based upon their engine numbers!



I have a spreadsheet of all D501 stuff. Its on a computer that is packed for my move back to California. I dont think there is much on my list that you arent aware of. Ill retrieve a copy.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-06-23 1:23 AM (#482446 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
I've never actually made up a list of the Survivors

The Pile of Dodge is a good example; it exists, in NC(?), but dunno its identifications.


Top of the page Bottom of the page
horace
Posted 2015-06-23 3:57 PM (#482510 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 471
1001001001002525
Location: MN
I for one would like a census complete w/ colors
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-06-30 1:34 AM (#483188 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Here's a couple bedtime stories, courtesy of Corp. reseacher Darrell Davis:

Of the total D501 production, the absolute number of D501's built is not (yet) confirmed, but
there is a range of recorded consecutive engine numbers (with 10 'missing/unaccounted' VIN's within this range)...

...that STRONGLY suggests that a total of 102 VIN's/cars were built..

92 IBM cards (or, cars-built) have been recorded by Mr. Davis' research, to date, on/for all of the
D501 production.

ALL 92 cars found, to date, have the manual transmission in them.

The 10(?) presently missing IBM cards/cars probably include two "known/observed" prototype-type cars, but whose
VIN's have yet been recorded/documented.

Most D501's were built during MAR 1957, with the earliest 'regular production' car having been built in JAN 1957.
and the last one (-known) being built around the end of June, 1957.

The last-known-built D501 carried engine number 1029.

1956-style 15" spinner wheelcovers were common options on the 501's (either those, or 15" dog-dishes, or 15"
non-spinners).

All D501's carried the biggest available 15" Imperial wheels, spindles and brakes.

Precisely half of the 92 found cars are solid-color cars.

The all black "Rod & Custom" D501 sedan was shipped on 4/17/57; not an early-build car, but, there were (remember: 10
cars are unaccounted-for)..12 sedans, 1 hardtop, and two convertibles (with at least one of them still
surviving)....built in all-black.

Kiekaefer got the lowest engine number, in his HT, but his car was not the first 501 that was built;
probably, the 8th car built.

The lowest (remember: 'number', not sequentially-built)....missing engine/car is #1002, and the highest missing
engine/car is 1054.

A couple years ago, there was a story going around that a certain D501 had been built as being a 1-of-none
D501 Custom Royal 2-door HT.

Research confirmed that its engine HAD been installed in an all-blue Coronet convertible, however (built on 5/13/57).

NO....non-Coronet D501's were built.

Norm Thatcher only participated in the Flying Mile competition (...only; he was hired, at the last-minute, by Dodge/Chrysler
to become their "supervisor over motor tune up and preparation", and supervised a "pit crew of 25-30
men" according to a newspaper account.

That 'pit crew' reportedly arrived at Daytona (soon-) AFTER the Speedweeks competitions had already begun.

So, combine a large, very quickly semi-organized/planned, racing crew, dominated by (blue-ribbon-) CHRYSLER employees/engineers
and with minor (non-direct-corporate) Dodge participation....and you get Chrysler 1st in Class-7 in Flying Mile, and in Class 7 Acceleration.

The two D501 HT's were reportedly driven to-and-from Daytona, by their owners; no direct-factory support
for them.

Dodge got a 4th in Class 7 (against Chrysler 300C) , for both the Flying Mile and for Acceleration (392 c.i. -vs- 354 c.i. engines).

Thatcher's car was a real stripper-sedan race car; at least one of the two Daytona hardtops (and, probably both of them) had
undercoating applied to them.

All three of the Daytona cars' whereabouts is unknown.

Kiekaefer's dynomometer results:

1956 D-500-1; 330 HP @ 5610 RPM

300B: 354 HP @ 5400 RPM

D501: 369 HP @ 5530 RPM

300C: 385 HP @ 5600 RPM



this should 'hold' you'all for a while.













Edited by d500neil 2015-06-30 2:07 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Swept57
Posted 2015-06-30 8:12 AM (#483200 - in reply to #483188)
Subject: Re: D-501



Expert

Posts: 1622
1000500100
Location: Seville, OH
Was the Bob Oseki 1957 Dodge driven by Cotten Owens in 1958 a 501?

Edited by Swept57 2015-06-30 8:14 AM




(darlington58garage-vi.jpg)



(Dodge57-vi.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments darlington58garage-vi.jpg (290KB - 274 downloads)
Attachments Dodge57-vi.jpg (235KB - 246 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2015-06-30 7:40 PM (#483250 - in reply to #200205)
Subject: Re: D-501



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
Yes it was.

Hadn't seen these two specific photos, before.

This race was the 1958 Darlington 500 ("Southern 500") , run on 9/1/58.

This was, also, the only major 1957-1958 race that featured a known D501 (hardtop model, too) in it.

Cotton Owens qualified 46th, out of 48 starters, and 'finished' in 43rd, after completing 15 laps (out of 364) and
retired from a "piston" problem/failure.

He earned $100.00 (today: +/- $1K) for his efforts.


Dick Joslin might have campaigned a D501, during the 58 NASCAR season, but his ride's model-identity
has not been confirmed in "40 Years of Stock car racing".

Joslin was at the 1958 Daytona 500, starting in 29th (out of 49 starters), and ended up in 43rd, retiring on the 6th lap, from a "hose" failure, and earning him no money for his day(s') efforts.

Nobody 'finishing' under 40th place (out of 49 starters) earned any money, that day.





Edited by d500neil 2015-06-30 7:46 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page