Re: Oil priming

[Jim Altemose <jaltemoose@xxxxxxxxx>]

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Gary,

Below is what I have saved from Don and his 'intervenus' method.  Good
reading, but I couldn't find a complete description of the process.

- Jim
Jim Altemose, Long Island, NY
'63 Polara 500 (Max Wedge)
'63 Polara 500 (383)
'65 Belvedere I (Street Wedge)
'71 Bronco



I always worried about cam breakin. particularily because many
aquaintances had chevies and they eat cams (even stock) just for
something to do.
I watch my seat spring pressures. not more than 120 to 125#
I coat my cam with high pressure grease , liberally.
I dab each lifter with the same grease.
I prelube the engine
I dont fire it , I dont warranty it.
I use only straight grade oils (more on that later) Usualy 40 Racing
oil , Kendall or Esso (Exon ) Oil for heavy trucks (XD3)
I do not let the engine idle for 20 miniutes. I do not let it even
think of idling,
In fact i am accused of reving the snot out of it .
 Even after I have run it I am very careful for a week or so not to
let it idle any more than is absolutley necessary.
Even with all that I still worry especially lately as the problem
seems to be more common that it used to be for us. Crane used to make
all the cores for everyone now Comp makes most.  That makes me just a
tiny bit nervous.
Race cams are hard to break in. Real radical ones may exceed the cores
ability to take that much grinding as the hardening is really quite
thin.
Nascar guys run their cams in on a dummy engine.
I for myself and friends often get my own personal street grind done
on a used core rather than a fresh billet. My thinking is it may have
work hardened.
All this may be crazy and I may have to eat my words  on the next fire
up but I hope not.

Straight grade oils.
The Only reason we have multigrade oils is so we dont have to change
oil for colder weather. Pours like 10 protects like 40 to me means it
is about like 20 wt.  His  Smokeyness though he was a Chevy guy would
tell you the same thing BTW
Since I dont race or drive my car in the winter on a regular basis I
go for protection first and formost.
It hurts nothing , protects far better and is more stable under severe
conditions,so why would we not use it?

Don
Author of
Return to Deutschland (True Adventure)
Old Reliable (Mopar)



I have experimented with synthetics in our motors . Esso which is Exon
in your land sponored an experiment. They gave us through the dealer a
supply of synthetic. oil (Esson and Mobil were together then so it
would be the same stuff.) We had problems right from the git go and I
pulled the engine after one weekends racing and freshened it . The cam
was showing signs of wear already which it never had before.  I have
not used it in my race cars since. (I have customer though using Royal
Purple 40 wt successfully.
Lifters , We have the best luck with sealed power lifters . I have had
issues with Comp cams lifter recently , I emailed them . did not have
a wiped cam but  2 in a set would bleed down when sitting and would
clack when restated for a couple of seconds. I wrote them a nice email
explaining the problem the Reply I recieved said and i quote. "I am
NOT resupplying lifters for any installed cams period"
I was disappointed . I did not like that my engine was noisy for no
good reason and wanted my customer to be happy. Aparrently they did
not really care once they had the gold. I still ave the email by the
way in case any should think to deny it. . I got him some sealed power
lifters and that cured it.
I think misses Lee in china does not know how to harden lifters  but
these particular ones were ok wear wise just noisy. The solids which
you obviously have can be had from hubert and others with a oil bleeed
hole lazer cut in them . I would think this is good. Shuberts will not
wear at all as they are some kind of ceramic but they are almost too
expensive for our motors.
Re breakin. Here is what we do and we have had good success although
it is harder than it used to be according to al accounts from
experienced builders.
I use the supplied cam lube drirectly on the lobes . i also smear the
whole cam liberally with wheel bearing grease and dip each lifter in
the greease on its bottom before installing it. I do not use
multigrade oils  but use Dg diesel truck oils 40 wt or 50 if it is
really hot weather (90f+) I prelube the engie (using my intervenus
prelube invention but a drill running the oil pump is fine also.
I make sure the engine will fire immediatley . timing set in the will
run for sure zone and i fill the carb float bowls manualy. When the
ngine fires I DO NOT EVER let it idle for at least 20 minutes but keep
it around 2000 to 2500  jabbing the throttle occasionally . if I need
to adjust or fix something I shut it off and restart with throttle
applied . When the 20 minutes is reached I shut it off and change the
oil and filter while it is still smokin hot. This removes my assembly
lubes while they are still suspended in the oil at temp. I refill with
my same good oil and drive it like i stole it .
The number one best way to make sure you lose a cam BTW is to crank
the engine over on the starter till you have oil pressure. By the time
you have pressure you already dont have a cam. Avoid cranking and
idling like it was the plague. So far this has worked for me well and
i am in 35 plus years but i still worry as much as ever and even more
since lifter manufacture became a martial art form and moved to aisa.
Don

Author of
Return to Deutschland (True Adventure)
Old Reliable (Mopar)


every motor leaving here is preoiled(and (leaves with enough oil to
start it in it. ). I now often use my intervenus method though as it
works perfectly and is less hassle. I also use high pressure grease on
every cam  and lifters. and have for many many years (30 plus)It has
served me well. I DO NOT use white assmebly grease (execpt on the cars
door latches. ) On top of that I use the supplies moly as well. I am
fanatical abiut this because I have seen so many cams go south from
friends and even competing shops that I take absolutley no chances .
The time may be approaching though especially for full race engines
that it is just not worth the risk running a flat tappet cam and we
may become rolllerized. Once you get over 300 # spring pressure  you
are ri olling the dice. you can get cams coated or even nitrided I
have heard but the extra dough would almost buy the roller. It is too
bad  but I think the days of the flat tappet may be numbered. I am
much more comfortable with a early core  as in well used. I also
recommend and used Deisel truck oil  (aka gasoline severe service) as
i believe it gives much more protection but even it isnt what it was
10 years ago as far as cam or scuff protection goes.
Don
Author of
Return to Deutschland (True Adventure)
Old Reliable (Mopar)


 I am here. i tried using a ford bronco adapter and a spacer but it
didnt work like I hoped it would. the spacer would have to be over 6
inches long so the remote filter kit is a better solution. Biggest
thing to watch is that the hoses are on the right way. Some kits have
a check valve in them and if hoses are reversed wont allow oil  flow i
the reverse direction . I went to a shop who was supposed to calling
me to fire the engine (426 hemi) They had already gone ahead and tried
and run it a few times but called to say "Your &%$#@ engine has no oil
pressure." Since no engine has ever left my shop without priming and
pressure build up and oil dripping from the rockers etc i knew this
was pure crap. I went over and here it was installed with a remote
filter (dual filters too they are from the more is always better camp.
) I took a priming tool and a drill and removed the distributor . The
one line almost burst and the drill stalled. We reversed the lines and
all was well. By then though the cam was already on the way out having
been run for several minutes without oil supply. It lasted a couple of
weeks then I had the customer buy a new one and installed it for him .
the engine still running today.  These bozos were of course Chevy
guys. This si why by the way i have one hard and fast rule . If I dont
fire it I dont warranty it.  This btw is not  a freak incident it is
what often takes place. My friend H Wilson is a chevy guy and a good
builder of them he suplied a stroker of mega buch proportions to the
guy who runs a our local track. At 1:30 the next morning he got a
phone call . The guy said the motor you built has no blank blank oil
pressure. Harry standing there half awake in his undees asked "did you
put any oil in it?" Therewas a long pause on the phone followed by a
"I will hafta call you back" Well they didnt put any il in it and by
then had totally ruined it. They wereafterwarranty the next morning
and said "well you gotta help us it is just one of those things that
he happens" i think Harry told them to pound salt or somethingsimilar
and i would have too. After that happened to him I never let an engine
out of my shop withut atleast 4 qts in it just to cover the
possibllity of smeone forgetting. Too much help and too many beers
does it everytime .

Soory i got carried away. Your question just brought this to memory
DonD
Author of
Return to Deutschland (True Adventure)
Old Reliable (Mopar)

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Gary H. <spigot2039@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> I thought I saved Don's message but can't find it right now. Anyway, my recall is that he used the oil pressure sensor hole.
> That is, he took off the oil filter and the oil pressure sending unit and used gravity to flow new oil into the sending unit hole until the oil emerged out the filter area. Rigged up a rubber line connected to an oil container and let gravity do the work. He called it his intravenous prime method, I think. :)
>
> Thanks,
> Gary H.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>>Anyone remember Don D's formula for oil priming ? I've got an engine
>>that I'm about ready to start-up and I've always just used a drill and
>>prime rod on the pump. I thought I might use Don D's method. I believe
>>he used a slow gravity feed , but I'm not sure where he fed the oil
>>into the engine.
>>      Gary F.
>
>
> ----
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Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!

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