Gary,
I never really had the chance to compare to the six-pack - we only
drag raced the car with the six-pack (no street use) and always planned on
a
gallon a pass no matter what.
As for the single 4 bbl, the Sport Fury came with the 350hp 440.
The OE Holley was generally either leaking, stumbling or on fire so I
never
really checked the fuel economy. Once the dual quads went on I could
rarely
drive the car without knocking the front carb open for my listening
enjoyment. Ditto for the Wagoon. I had always surmised that with the
progressive linkage that there was less throttle opening required for a
given rate of acceleration, and as long as the A/F ratio was properly
adjusted at idle everything was pretty much same-same. I also fantasized
that with improved fuel distribution (due to one carb over each cluster of
intake passages) that efficiency was actually improved. Highly unlikely
but
it felt good at the time.
Honestly at that point in my life (early 80's) I don't remember even
considering fuel economy. I do recall that the crossram cars got between
7
and 9 MPG in the 90's but they were never driven gingerly either. Sorry I
can't be more help-
SC
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Pavlovich [mailto:glpavlovich@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 1:30 PM
To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Holley carb ID - warning - long read
Steve,
It seems that the AFB dual quad setup worked best for your HP and
reliability.
How was mileage compared to a single four or tri-power setup; I mean was
there a glaring difference in fuel use with the dual quad when cruising
because of both carbs metering fuel through idle circuits...?
Gary Pavlovich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Charette" <stevec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:08 AM
Subject: RE: Holley carb ID - warning - long read
Rich,
Back in the good old days there were the the 650 through 850 cfm
double pumpers with mechanical secondaries, and the 3310 vacuum operated
secondary which they then referred to as the 780.
The double pumpers were 4150 series carbs, which had metering blocks
front and rear, and were dual feed. IIRC they were numbered as follows:
600cfm 4776
650cfm 4777
700cfm 4778
750cfm 4779
800cfm 4780
850cfm 4781
The standard accelerator pump body was only about 5/16" tall, there
was a 50cc "Rio" pump that was maybe 7/16" or 1/2" tall that was used on
the
fronts on some of the larger carbs. We used to put the Rio pumps on the
secondaries on 850's to help 440's launch better. 383's seemed to like
the
750's better.
The 3310 was also a 4150 series carb with metering blocks front and
rear and dual feed. There was a large dashpot on the passenger side of
the
carb that opened the secondaries; the rate was adjustable by changing
colored springs in the dashpot.
Most of the OE carbs found on Mopars were 4160 series single feed
carbs with an aluminum transfer tube that ran from the front bowl to the
rear bowl. The floats, unlike the aftermarket carbs which were
externally
adjustable, were internally adjusted with the adjustment hole plugged by
discs that were prone to leakage. These carbs also had a metering plate
under the secondary bowl (in lieu of a metering plate) that resulted in
the
carbs being about 1/2" shorter (front to rear) than the 4150 series.
Unfortunately the metering plates had the metering cast in as opposed to
the
replaceable jets of the metering blocks.
The Holleys seemed to be plagued by leaks, blown power valves, stuck
floats, and needed all kinds of flaky vent tubes, jet tubes, and other
widgets to get them to work right. It also seemed that you had to change
the jets every time the sun went behind a cloud. But as hard as we
tried,
we couldn't make the AFB/AVS carbs of similar flow ratings run as fast.
We
even ran a six-pack for a while, with both OE carbs and aftermarket
replacements, just for the thrill of all these problems multiplied times
3.
We tried all kinds of different gaskets but after 2-3 weeks of sitting,
you'd turn the fuel pumps on and the carb looked like a lawn sprinkler.
We
finally gave up and started running twin AFB's - and never looked back.
I
recall throwing a hot 383 in my '63 wagon, and rather than the Torker/750
(which was virtually guaranteed to cause a fire) that was on the shelf,
grabbed an old 343hp dual quad setup that hadn't been used in years. I
blew
the dust and bugs out, bolted it on, and went for a ride. Never had to
touch the carbs for the 2 years the car was together, and the carbs went
on
to my 70 Sport Fury GT for another 2 years before (future at that point)
wife #2 decided she didn't like the stares the car got (Black on Black
with
Black interior, blacked out bumpers, etc - we called it Darth Vaders's
staff
car). A whole lot of cars in the Tri-Cities saw a whole lot of
taillights
because of those carbs... but I digress...
Eventually Holley started making spread-bore carbs (4165 series?) to
replace Quadrajunks, and then special replacement carbs for other
applications, as well as the 4500 Dominator series. I always try to look
for the older 47XX series or the 3310 just so I know what I'm looking
at...
anything else is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're
gonna
get - and that's all I have to say about that.
Information above is guaranteed to be 89-90 percent accurate. Only
problem is figuring out which part is the other 10%...
SC
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Kinsley [mailto:rlkinsley@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:35 PM
To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Holley carb ID
I don't know squat about Holley carbs, yet. I just thought they were all
double pumpers? Thanks for all the input.
Rich Kinsley '64 Dodge Polara 4dr 318poly w/goodies
====================================================================
Steve Charette wrote:
Rich,
IIRC the 3310 was a square bore vacuum secondary carb that they used
to refer to as a 780cfm. I've seen it recently as a 750, but I don't
recall them having a rear accellerator pump.
SC
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Kinsley [mailto:rlkinsley@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 6:10 PM
To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Holley carb ID
Rich Kinsley '64 Dodge Polara 4dr 318poly w/goodies
I have a Holley carb that I'd like to ID. I was told it's a 750cfm.
It's a 4bbl double pumper with 3310-6 and 2959 stamped on the choke
air horn.
There's a P-80 cast on the main body side. Under the air filter gasket
area there's a 6R 6931 and the sec nozzles are ^SR-107. Can anybody
ID it correct?
----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
directly to that person. I.e., send parts/car transactions and
negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended
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'62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
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Rich Kinsley '64 Dodge Polara 4dr 318poly w/goodies
----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
directly to that person. I.e., send parts/car transactions and
negotiations
as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to
the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy,
reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar
topic. Thanks!
'62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html.
----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
directly to that person. I.e., send parts/car transactions and
negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended
recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will
protect
your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content
signal to Mopar topic. Thanks!
'62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html.
----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
directly to that person. I.e., send parts/car transactions and
negotiations
as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to
the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy,
reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar
topic. Thanks!
'62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html.
----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
directly to that person. I.e., send parts/car transactions and
negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended
recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect
your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content
signal to Mopar topic. Thanks!
'62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html.
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