RE: Converted 4-door

[Steven Charette <stevec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

John,
	Thanks for the visual... the thought of standing there with the
scrapbook on the hood rattling on ad nauseum about the conversion made me
laugh 'til I had tears in my eyes. 

	I wonder how the '62 wagon would look as a two door... hmmmm...

SC

-----Original Message-----
From: John Hammond [mailto:426_maxwedge@xxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:38 PM
To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Converted 4-door


Why Bother... just leave it titled and VIN'ed as a 4-dr.  Shows that you're
not trying to pull a fast one on any future potential buyer.  A lot of folks
soon wont be able to purchase a nice original two door so a cheaper cloned
version will sell if done correctly and the photo album documenting the
extensive work
stays in the car at all times as proof and a conversation piece.   Pulled 
over? Whip that photo journal out
and start up a L-E-N-G-T-H-Y disertation on the process with officer... 
don't stop talking or give him the
opportunity to break in anywhere.  You won't have to talk your way out of a
ticket, your gonna talk PAST the citation. He'll finally thank you, and
move-on to a less talkative violator; and we ALL can quote chapter and verse
when it comes to Mopar. Imagine how easy it is to never shut-up about
something this extensive.
Extensive as it is; from what I've seen so-far it's very straight-forward
and well within the reach of most decent bodymen.  There have been a number
of wagons converted to two doors, and this topic never even comes up except
to comment on "how it looks like came that way" if anybody even notices at
all.  Some things are certain:  it's got more people interested in owning
it, it's less likely to be discarded and will have a new extended lease on
life, the OMG factor just went up drastically in your talant and dedication
column, and oh yeah, 4-door B-bodies are suddenly a hot commodity as a build
platform rather than parts donors.  Think of the trickle down theory on that
for a second....woohoooaftermarkethelp! 
I don't think it's an issue unless
the cloner tries to sway the origins. A lot of us know what a hardtop is,
mention the term to most anyone, including a younger car nut, and imagine
the confused stare...I'm not suggesting anything here just trying to make a
point.

John Hammond
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Charette" <stevec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: Converted 4-door


>
> Dave and Tom,
> This is an interesting discussion... at what point does one cross
> the line when replacing parts?  We're doing a '64 Savoy right now and are
> replacing the floor, trunk floor, firewall, cowl, trans crossmember,
> K-member, inner fenders, fenders, hood - you get the idea.  We'll make it
> look fairly "correct", but it will always be just a clone.
>
> There is a local guy selling a '70 or '71 E-Body (not sure which)
> firewall section - it was saw-zalled across the a-pillars, through the 
> floor
> ahead of the trans crossmember, and down the front of the firewall.  It's
> basically just the firewall and vin tag with some cowl pieces... if one 
> were
> to buy this and build a car around it, is it still that car?
>
> IMHO it's just a matter of replacing parts.  To put it in context:
> if you had an original 64 Hemi lightweight car and it burned in a fire, or
> was destroyed in a tornado, and you rebuilt it, is it still an original 
> car?
> What if you re-bodied it with a slant six body?  Now what if some guy buys

> a
> cowl section (as described above) and uses junkyard parts to complete the
> car?
>
> The real problem arises when somebody tries to pass off a converted
> four-door as an original aluminum nose car or something like that... you
> gotta know that some opportunist has done something like this.  But what
> about a guy (I have a friend locally doing one) builds a '64 Belvedere two
> door from a low-mileage 4 door, adds a max wedge with all the correct 
> stuff,
> just for his own enjoyment?
>
> I don't think local law enforcement would press the issue unless
> someone actually forced it... if the vin matches the registration they
> probably have better things to do than check to see if the car is 
> "correct".
> Other states may be more aggressive, as with inspections and the like. 
> Here
> in Michigan it's pretty lax... there was a guy at our local show last
> weekend with a car built out of wood.
>
> Sticky issue... anybody else?
>
> SC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dwalters@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dwalters@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:23 PM
> To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Converted 4-door
>
>
>
> Tom Watters wrote:
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> How can you tell its a converted 4-door body?
>>
>> http://www.moparsbymosher.com/projects/tonys64dodge/body&paint/underca
>> rriage-03.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> dwalters@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>> > oparsbymosher.com/projects/tonys64dodge/body&paint/undercarriage-03.
>> > html
>> >
>> > rear '64 Dogge
>> >
>> > I'd never spend that kind of money on a converted 4 door body. But
>> > hey, nothing a little VIN/SO swapping wont fix...
>> >
>> > Dave Walters
>> > Aurora, Co.
>
> Hey, Tom. Good to see you're still nosing around in the hobby. I should 
> stop
> by to see you on the way to the Fall Fling. You heard DJ (Prowler) was 
> shot
> and killed in his house, didn't you?
>
> To answer your question, if you look at the progress pics all the way back
> to when the car was dropped off at Mosher's you'll plainly see it's a
> converted 4 door car. IMO, if it's just going to be an anonymous race car,
> no problem. Unless the VIN tag is swapped how is this car going to pass 
> any
> sort of state inspection? VIN tampering is a Federal crime.
> There's a guy here in Denver that can't get rid of an "A990" car because 
> he
> swapped the VIN tag and the package tray containing the partial SO number.
> If you don't swap the VIN tag and you're stopped by the police and they
> notice the title/registration shows a 4 door vehicle instead of the Post 
> car
> that he pulled over, then what?
>
> Most cars leaving Mosher's shop have $100,000 in them. I know I wouldn't
> want to gamble that amount of money on an "understanding" buyer. And I 
> can't
> imagine a converted 4 door bringing the same resale dollars that an 
> original
> Post car would.
>
> [gets off of soap box]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dave Walters
> Aurora, Co.
>
>
> ----
> Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
> directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and 
> negotiations
> as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to
> the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy,
> reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar
> topic.  Thanks!
>
> '62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html.
>
>
> ----
> Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --  
> directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and 
> negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended 
> recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect

> your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content 
> signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!
>
> '62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html.
>
> 


----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations
as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to
the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy,
reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar
topic.  Thanks!

'62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html. 


----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!

'62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html.