727 Leaking Fluid like it was made in Great Britain

["John Hammond" <426_maxwedge@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: 426_maxwedge@xxxxxxxxxxx
To: "The 1962 to 1965 Mopar Mail List Clubhouse" 
<1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 11:37 PM
Subject: Torqueflite Flood


This one seems to have everyone stumped and the ordeal so far will make for 
a long explanation: so please bear with me, and ANY imput or past 
experiences relayed will be most appreciated. My '64 330 wagon has a mild 
440 backed by a Full Manual Valve-Bodied 727. Both engine and transmission 
are fresh rebuilds from respected shops and have less than 200 miles on 
them. Since the 440 is so new, I've been really conservative in driving 
style and nothing has seen the high side of 3800rpm yet.  Coming home from a 
cruise-in a scant 7 miles from my home a few weeks back everything is as 
fine as it has been since it's first miles driven. Later that evening the 
wife and I decide to go for a bite to eat and drive the wagon to the 
restarant. Coming off of a long hill in third at about 50mph something lets 
go and pumps most all of the trans-fluid out of the 727 and oils down the 
exhaust so bad I thought it was an electrical fire under the dash: car was 
so full of smoke it was hard to see out.  I get it on the side of the road 
and by the time I had the fire extinguisher in hand, the tons of smoke had 
dissipated and a wave of trans fluid ran out from underneath the car. 
Quickly looking underneath the STREAM of fluid was coming from the 
inspection cover slightly to the passenger side from center.  Car went home 
on a rollback since I hoped it was something like a pump and likely the 
internals might be OK. The flood was nice and red and had no burnt scent 
from it. I should mention that the wagon has a huge plate style cooler, 
(probabaly a quart cap.), and a 1-qt. extra capacity pan along with a new 
(10-1/2" ?), mild upgraded convertor.
   The transmission shop pulled the 727 out, removed the convertor and 
pump - which appeared fine with no signs of damage or failure, replaced the 
usual, expected seals, reinstalled everything and started the car which 
instantly began pouring out fluid again. Looking behind the convertor with 
an inspection mirror while still installed - it appeared as if the convertor 
drive snout wasn't engaging the seal in the pump and thereby allowing a 
massive leak. Out comes the 727 and the convertor was replaced with a new 
stock-type convertor along with all of the previous mentioned seals again 
just in case something was pinched or misaligned on the first attempt. Upon 
restarting; no leaking is apparant. Testing it in every gear by stalling it 
against the brakes after the fluid was up to operating temp no leaks. Car is 
deemed fixed and I drove it five miles home.  I drove it home slowly in the 
rain because of bad wipers but nothing seemed less than ok. Following day I 
decided to take a short spin for a better assessment, started it, let it run 
for 4 or 5 minutes, no leaks, no smells or smoke, and I started down the 
road. In less than 1 mile it has started pumping out the fluid again. Turned 
around, parked it, check the dipstick which still shows some fluid at the 
very end of the stick and I started making calls.
    The drive hub or snout of the convertor shows to have perfect wear 
pattern at 200 miles without any galling or scratches. If the bushing in the 
front pump was bad, the evidence would show up here in that reguard due to 
slop allowing less than concentric alignment. So we can probably rule out, 
convertor, pump, and seals at this point. The dipstick is from Lokar, I 
called their tech department and verified that the scale is consistantly 
calibrated prior to manufacture to an original 727 tube and stick as factory 
installed.  They stated it was so, and assured me that if seated against the 
case the indicated area will yield a correct level reading. The FSM calls 
for 7-9 quarts on a stock panned 727. Adding a qt. for the deep pan, a qt. 
for the huge cooler, that would bring the total up to around 11 qts. Almost 
exactly the amount used to produce the correct level shown on the verified 
Lokar dipstick. Hensley Racing when posed with this problem suggests that 
the transmission is simply overfilled and the excess is being spit out of 
the vent on the forward top portion of the front pump.  I agree that the 
vent is likely the source of the leak at this time especially considering 
the location of the stream of the leak compaired to the location of the vent 
hole. What doesn't make sense is why the car made 200 miles prior to the 
problem with that amount of fluid and now that the leak has started; nothing 
seems to stop it at the same given quantity of fluid installed and level 
checked. One other question I've yet to get an answer to is "Venting from 
where?" Is this hole in the pump justl ike a hole for a breather in a valve 
cover, or is it plumbed/part of, to a specific passage or circuit?
    I contacted Turbo-Action tech dept. and told them what I'd been going 
through and asked if this could be a valve-body related issue.  They said it 
was possible, but unlikely.  I've used the full-manual reverse-pattern 
Cheetah body in a number of cars, without any problems, ever, for decades. 
The tech stated that the regulator valve may have stuck allowing pressure to 
go unchecked in the high gear servo which would force the fluid out the path 
of least resistance ( i.e.  the vent or the dipstick tube). The Lokar stick 
is seated pretty firmly in the tube I might add.  The repair entails removal 
of the valve body, removal of the regulator from the body, polish with emory 
cloth until smooth  activation and release is obtained and reinstall. He 
again states that this condition is very rare to occur, however.  I surmise 
that since it has obviously happened at some time, and since right now, it 
is the most logical explanation of the condition I'm experiencing it's the 
best guess so far.....but wow it seems really far-fetched.  I'm attempting 
to contact Pat Blais to see if he has any ideas on this as well, but I've 
yet to speak with him.  Maybe someone here has some info as to what is 
happening and how to address it; or somebody else I should talk to?  In all 
my years of Mopardom I've never seen or heard of anything like this and 
neither had Hensley Racing. I am by no means a transmission guy but one 
doesn't need to be with a 727. You simply install it, fill it, and beat on 
it unmercifully till the end of time without worry unless you install a 
transbrake and/or slicks.... at which point you check on it, occassionally. 
Again, if anybody can shed some light on this, I would be most thankful for 
your aid... just the transfluid and the bags of oil-dry are approaching my 
fuel costs......thanks, John Hammond
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