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As many times as I proofread my memo, l see errors
now. I don't mean you want torque to start coming in at like 5,000 rpm's,
but that's the way a sentence in a below paragraph sounded to me. Most
every engine on the planet crossed torque (they are exactly the same) at about
5240 rpm. On my engine, at 3000 rpm I'm already pulling 307 ft.lbs. there
and it keeps going up to 562.2 torque and 572 hp at I think at 5,900 rpm and at
571 hp at 6200 rpm. But I think you need to build your engine lighter and
if you don't beat the crap out of it like I do, you can have a lighter cam and a
different rear end for better gas milage. The carb has to be tuned
different on the dyno because the carbs and the exhaust are wide open
and they can control things from outside the engine room in case something
breaks bad or a fire starts. My engine was run at only 140 degrees and on
93 octane gas, both of which cost
me horsepower.
I would have hit just over 600 HP with room to grow with not too much money, far
less than building a new engine costs.
The engine will richen up when you put mufflers on
and even more with the air filter
on unless you have a
very unrestrected air filter or a cold air intake and a little screen filter
(not for the street). You have to rejet every time you change something
and carter's (Edlebrock's now) sells the Thunder
series carbs (hand choke) or some other series costing more with electric
choke. That's the way to go, the electric choke and a jet and metering rod
kit from Jeg's or your local guy, if you have one. Running rich after
bolting in your engine is expected because the makers of the carb don't want you
to blow up your engine by being too len. Better safe than
sorry.
One 750 should do you well. My engine
never hit over 700 and there was 1,500 cfm available. Here is where a good
intake is important. Hughes has the dope on that too. Go to their
home page and read the technical articles there and you can find what you are
looking for and they test a lot of manifolds and three of the best for big
blocks turned out to be the old BB two four barrel setup from Edelbrock, the
six-pack intake. This is all for small port-heads, not max wedge sized
head ports.
For max wedge heads the best were the original ones
at a very even low 300 cfm intake on each port. Other intakes vary as much
as over 60 for all types of intakes and Hughes can make all of them better, some
more-so than others. The Indy Big Sucker (very high and has huge ports) is
aboutr $640 and flows more air through the port than the port to the engine
does. That's the ideal and pick your intake with care AFTER reading some
test articles. Check out what magazines like "Mopar Muscle" and "Mopar
Action" are building and testing. They are a good source to say what
Hughes doesn't and have some good tips themselves and advirtise all things Mopar
in one of the Mopar mags and pick up all the info you can by reading, looking
and asking questions. I'm no know it all and I'm learning a lot
here. Most questions I don't have an answer for so I don't give any
advice. Then I learn by reading the other comments. I like the idea
too of having the answers sent to everyone and the private emails are great too,
but I's always curious as to how things turn out and it seems like everyone is
doing that anyway and I like it that way.
If you call for parts and Hughes asks you why you
want that kind of part with the other parts you are buying? It won't work
good with those parts. This other part will give you more HP for
maybe less cost, same cost or a litttle more cost.
I dealt with Hughes and I highly recommend
them. They are all Mopar all the time and very nice and helpful and they
will have most of what you need. You can get most anything for a RB (what
Hughes calls a BB) so don't get confused. The site looks a little
intimidating at first but isn't hard to use at all. Look at the tech
articles. Look at the HP and Torque. Click on those charts to make
them bigger. Check out what works with what. Hint, the wilder the
cam, the better the heads, intake, etc. are what makes all engines go and makes
them suitable for the street, street/strip or all out racing.
Chick (more below, belive it or
not)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 4:24
AM
Subject: Re: 440 Change over,,
"Advise/Tec help"
Gary,
Good flowing heads, a cam of about 220 to 230
degrees duration , a 108 centerline and about .530 lift with a good 4 barrel
intake and a 750 Edelbrock or a 750 or 780 Holley-type carb should get you to
where you want to be or even a little better or a lttle closer. I like
the Edelbrock carbs which were formerly Carter carbs. They are easy to
tune and usually too rich out of the box and really too rich if you are using
two of them, no matter what kind of intake you are using. You have to
use a high volume fuel pump they sell with no more than 7 lbs pressure and it
can move a lot of gas per hour. Something suitable for a Holly or Holly
type cars, like the pressure from the fuel pump or the fuel injection can run
up to over 45 lbs. So all components must be matched to each other to
make them work well together.
Hughes Engines can fix up your heads and port
them a little. Leave the stock pistons in if you aren't pulling the
pistons out. If your are, you can attend to any other necessary
matters. If not, you can either buy cores from Hughes and buy the
heads from them and have them ported or not. Or you can send in your own
heads and have at least a stage I pocket port job put on them. This and
the cam are going to give you your power. The compression ratio works
like this. A higher compression ratio forces you to use higher
octaine fuel but you don't get much HP back as you go up the compression
ladder, you have to use two to five highter octane gase to get, at most, 5%
more power. So keep the motor no higher that 9.25 to 1. My motor
is about 8 to 1 and makes all kinds of horsepower. I left room to grow
by simply changing cams and intakes and carbs. It would make more than
100 more HP but would cost another $3,000 or more to get that hundred.
The stock 8 3/4" rears on stock MOPAR with heavy duty universal joints for the
driveshaft and the rear and front of the shaft, all of that and the trans is
good for 600 HP at the flywheel engines.
This is a pretty simple way to build a pretty
good cruising engine. Mine cost of lot of money but if you read the Dyno
Runs on Hughs you will learn a lot about what works a lot better than I
can. But most of their engines are all out of max HP. However,
some of the engines work for cars right up your alley. Heavier, torque
you want to come in low, hard and fast. 5500 to 6000 rpm is probably fine
enough for you. A high torque low end cam with the right grind can do
both. Of course, the hotter the cam the higher up the rpm range you want
to run the engine, the more cam people want. I'm only using the
third-hottest solid lifter Hughes cam and its perfect for my car, makes mucho
low torque, mucho HP to 7000 rpm and I don't have power brakes and power
steering so vacuum pressure doesn't bother me.
A hydralic cam might be better for you.
Don't go too conservative with an RV cam. Don't go overboard
either. You should find the right cam about the second hottest hydralic
(not RV) cam to the fifth hottest hydralic cam.
Of course if you change one thing, like I changed
the heads, you might (or most probably will) have to change other things too.
causing more problems. Sometimes it is just better to use all you can of
what you have and only change the most critical parts if the engind is in good
shape otherwise. Modify what you have to to make it last and be right
and still keep to your budget, if you have one, might be expected to
go down the drain real quick.
Do get rid of the stock MOPAR rocker arms.
They only have a true 1.37 or near the true lift ratio. Plus both the
rocker arms are steel and so are the shafts. That is just asking for
trouble. You don't put steel bearings on a steel crank because it will
scratch it all up and the motor will seize. Hughes adjustable rockers
are available for $450 a set and are highly recommended. They come with
shims and you should get their special tool and a dial indicatior to make the
right size pushrods with.
I just so happen to have a Hughs brand-new set of
rocker arms and shafts. No needle bearings to break, a true 1.5 ratio
(PUSHRODS FOR AN HYDRAULIC CAM ALREADY MADE AND BRAND NEW TOO), spacers, special lube, the whole 9 yards.
I'll sell it at a good price but I can't give it away. I wouldn't
work with my original Max heads because the part that holds down the rocker
arm shafts are one-piece and if you manage to thread one through and then
tighten them down, if everything isn't lined up perfectly, when you tighten
the bolts you crack the shaft. You have to have the split hold-downs in
your heads that are in two pieces and one is cast into the head, the other
comes off with the bolt holding it on and then you take the old out and put
the new in. If you want to get a cam from Hughes and the other stuff
from me (and you won't have to pay a big deposit on their pushrod sizer and
mine was fairly warm and should work with whatever you buy with no problems)
and want your pushrods perfect to .001 inches, you can go through the extra
effort with new ones from Hughes or buy mine. They are so good they
rarely need adjusted, evey by guys who have race cars with this type of rocker
arm and they only adjust their valves one a season and that is mostly just to
be sure. They really hold their adjustment.
Trans-go makes three different types of trans
kits for older mopars than my 62. They are all for firm shifts.
The first is an RV type kit. The second is a street/strip type kit with
more line pressure and still you can user "Drive" and it will shift so good
you don't even know its there or hold it forever in first or second with the
buttons or whatever you have. Maybe you want a floorshift. Another
$300 for the best. If your trans cables are shot try to get some used
ones on the cheap. New ones are almost impossible to find unless you want to
pay $300 or $400 per cable. One thing with the trans'go. I go no.
2. When the guys rebuilt, and they do old racing MOPAR 727's all the
time, there is a piece in the directions that say to take the lip off one side
of the piece and put it back in the trans. This doesn't work.
Leave the lip on or you will have to take the trans out, find a factory one
and put it in. The third one is full-race with a reverse pattern and you
have to shift all the time. What's the use of having an auto unless you
are only racinging it?
If you want any more advice, read the stuff on
Hughes Engines and it will be a big help. They will also answer
questions for you happily. So will I;
can use a
Dvorak one way screen for a windage tray and supposedly pick up 10 or 12
extra HP. The best part is that if you blow the crank, the one was
screen keeps the cranshaft and piston rods from going through the oil pad
during a race at the track or any other place. Something might get
through the block, but the oil pan, unbroken, will still hold most of the
oild. It comes with a crank scraper that has to be hand fitted to
your engine and has .010 clearance. I use a Milodon 7 qu. pan but I
can only use the little fiter cause the big oil filter is a bitch to get
in or out.
Here's a few pics of the Dvorak stuff when I
was building my engine. I've got lots mor stuff to say about the
subject of what to put in a 440 engine to get the best of of it (but not
too cheaply and I think you can get the job done with the same amount of
HP and torque and still be running 87 octane gas and you willl have
enought tourque to get a big car moving very quickly and keep on going
quicker all the time until you take your foot off the gas. You car
will be low compression, have a cam that idles faily smothly without
giving away how hot the engine actually is and still have big HP and
torgue from way down low (2000 rpm) to way up high (7,000). I don't
know how the vacuum on the cam is because my car has no power brakes and
no power steering so it doesn't matter to me.
I have many pictures and tips you can use or
not, I'll send you what I have little. I think you already heard
this but I'll tell you again. Don't get in too big a hurry but don't
neglect the project by getting tired of it. Sometime family or
financial matters keep people from reaching their goals. I know you
are pretty determined to get it done right or you wouldn't have bothered
to do it in the first place. I already did it to an engine that
would work great in your car, providing that you have enough vacuum to
work your power stuff. If it doesn't, you can go to the next lower
cam and still have a hight HP and torque engine that might be even better
for your car. Hughes Engines has exactly what you need. They
are on the web. So is Hughes Engineering. Easy to confuse
them. The Engines sells all MOPAR engine parts and complete dyno'd
engines and Engineering sells all makes of trans and torque convertors for
most makes, including MOPARS but the MOPAR trans either is disapper or
going way up in price and getting harder to find all the time.
Trans-go makes a 1, 2, or 3 kit. No. 1 kit is an RV kit
with altered shift points and full auto but you can still
control the trans with the buttons if want to like going down a very
steep hill and putting the trans in 2nd gear to help slow it
down and save the brakes. You are lucky you did'nt have to buy a
trans. Then new cables are getting so hard to get, if you can even
get them, some places want over 200 dollars each for a speedomoter cable,
a shif cable and a park cable. I could have paid 1/3 or less of the
price 4 years ago but I waited and got one of the last of each. $529
for three cables that used to be about $150 for all of them. And not
teeth in the speedomoter cable. You have to take the teeth out of
your old cable and put it in your new cable yourself. If you changed
the rear gear ratio it is hard to find a right ratio gear because no one
has them anymore. If you live near a guy who has a MOPAR race shop
and he carries parts (or not even) he may be able to help you out with
some hard to find pieces for your engine and trans. Your car
probably not, but he will probably know who does.
Anyway, I have a lot more to say later but
now I'm going to attach some pictuof my engine and some of what was done
to it. You probably will want some more answere after you get into
it deeper. Don't be in a hurry, you can get your block hot tanked
and sonic tested locally probably and you will need to to check for bore
shift and don't make the overbore any higher than you have to. .020
used to be very expensive but doens't cost any more than any other size of
overbore now. .030 is more or less standard, .040 lets you get in
one more size if it passer the core-shift test, .060 and only some 44o
block, never mind the year, can take that much without cracking a
cylinder.
A cam also depends on what kink of rear end
ratio you are running, the diameter of the rear tires, the weight of the
vehicle and the intended use. Going as hot as you can while still
having great low end torque with the read you are running will give you
plenty of power. Just make sure you have enough clearance in your
piston to valve clearance and make sure you use the recommend valve
springs, retainers, keepers and get your vavle seats machined for new ones
if you can afford it on the exhaust side so it will run without wrecking
your engine and make sure all the valve stems are the same height.
You might have to have some of the valves more sunk into the head to make
everything even, Then true up the head with a .oo5 cut and you have
to have your intake cut a few thousands too to make it all like
up.
You can match the heads and the intake to the
intake gaskets. A lot of people thing this isn't worth the trouble
and the dyno doesn't show much gain for this operation alone. Or
with other work done to the engine either. Unless it was off bad I
wouldn't bother with it.
I used expensive Victor alimunim heads and
steel heads that have the right work done on them can make as much HP as
my engine, around 600 or maybe 50 less for you if you want a lighter
hydraulic cam. Your engine will still go like hell and your power
steering and power brakes should work better than with a cam like
mine. You don't need a stroker, my engine make great toruqe but the
strokers beat it at top end and only get about 100 more torque than me on
all-out stroker race engines and I have nowhere to go but up if I want
more hp or torque but enough is enough. How much you pay will be
more the longer you wait and the more expensive parts you use. So if
you only have a 5 qt. pay you might want a bigger one. You may need
an alimunim raditor with an electronic fan along with either a deltutching
MOPAR factory cam, a flex cam and a shrould, (You are going to need the
should need the shrould anyway.) More HP is more heat and you don't
want to overheat all the time. You want a reliable car you and drive
from coast to coast.
Here's some pics for you. Don't hesitate
to ask me any questions. I'll try to get back to you withing a few
day, at least. Let me know what you want, what suggestions you got
from anyone on this board you would like to incorporate into your engine,
etc. Some guys might have better tips than me on how to really do it
on the cheap, but it takes being in the right place at the right time, or
knowing someone, or looking for a very long time to get all the parts
together if you want to do things on the cheap. Even if you buy the
best of anything there can still be all kinds of delays. The motor
man can take years more to build your motor than he told you he would
take. Parts that are supposed to fit don't and have to be
modified. Whatever can go wrong sometimes does.
Coated bearing are also a good idea.
They call it CT-coating but it is reallly Molylibdemum oxide (looks like
powered graphite in powdered form). This stuff can prevent a bearing
from going out if the engine somehow doesn't get enough oil to your
engine. The problem is that MOPARS ard $90 to get your main bearings
CT-coated and that doesn't include the cost of the bearings. For a
chevy they sell coated bearings complete for $90. Mopars ain't
chead to buy, work on or stuff like that but they can be built up to be as
fast as any other brand, at least. All of their cars shared mostly
the same engines according to the size of the cars and are more valuable
than most other brands when done due to scarcity and who wants what?
A daily cruiser with a decent motor, a part time cruiser with a
street/strip engive, a "hot rod", a custom, a racer, etc., Mopar is always
my favorites.
Stephen "Chick" Andrachek
The front of my engine when it was going
together. Block is black to be different.
No wanter pump on
yet, I used an alimunim one to hold doen weight.
The Dvorak crank scraper being fitted and the
Milodon oil pickup sticking out.
The Dvorak one way screen/windage tray.
It has to be fitted too. More money and you
can get away with a used windage tray to save
money if you want.
Small view of the bottom with no crank
scraper or screen.
Engine almost ready to get fired up the first
time to seat the gastkets. Hot block with no water in
it.
Top of block with the best Keith Black
Pistons in it.
That's it for this time. I've got a lot
more pics, a lot more ideas and feel free to ask whatever you want.
My way might not be the best way but it won't be far off
and it will run good if the parts work
together well. That's at least 90 percent of it on any
engine.
Keep me posted as to how it is
going.
Chick
a warning to the guys with dial-ups.
These are full sized pictures and will clog up your machine so, when you
get this far, just don't wait for my pictures until I start doing what
people keep telling me what to do and how to do it and its a much easier
way and more beneficial and what eveyone is telling me how to make life
easier and quicker and I just revert to my old ways because I'm
a hardhead, I guess. I'm stuck in my old ways and
sometimes maybe put too much info in one email.(Now I've got "bullets now
by mistake
----- Original Message ----- bullet paragrapy
markers and ran out of room to put memo in. I done the best I could
to put out some good info and I'm not sending any quick-
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:52
PM
Subject: Re: 440 Change over,, "Advise/Tec
help"
Gary, i have a 64 B body 413 ci. factory oil pan and a Mancini
Racing Windage tray # P4120998.The Windage tray seems to fit tight in the
pan, but Mancini's tec support claims, that is the way it works. i hope it
will be OK.
--- On Tue, 6/21/11, 62to65mopar@xxxxxxxxxxx
<62to65mopar@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> From: 62to65mopar@xxxxxxxxxxx
<62to65mopar@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: 440 Change over,, "Advise/Tec
help"
> To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 11:42 AM
> Cool!
>
> What oil pan are you using?
>
> Couple
pictures here:
>
> http://1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/ml-boger65.html
>
> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/kailholz651.html
>
> Thanks,
> Gary H.
>
>
> > Gentlemen, In the next week or so, we will
> "finally"
be
> > > putting together a rebuilt TNT 440 Engine
>
that I pulled out
> > > of a 1970 premium model Imperial. The
440
> is going in my 65
> > > Coronet,,which now has a
factory 318 Poly
> with power
> > > steering and power
brakes.
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > My fellow Mopar brothers Please!,,Giving it
> some
though!,,
> > > is there anything I should be aware of or
I
> should consider
> > > doing in order to make the
change over go
> smoother and/or
> > > avoid any
unneeded stress.
> > >
> > >
> > >
Oh!, can someone email me a good clear
> photo of a 65/B
Body
> > > Engine compartment with a 440 in it, just
>
so that my help
> > > can see what we are somewhat going to
end
> up with.
> > >
> > >
> >
> PS: Please if possible email me off list.
> > >
>
> > Thank you All,
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
Jay Rod.
> > > 1965 Dodge Coronet 500.
>
> --
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>
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