Re: Block markings & trans stuff

[Bill Watson <wwatson6@xxxxxxx>]

Engine numbers appeared on cars long before serial numbers (Vehicle 
Identification Numbers, these days).   Which is why many state/provincial 
motor vehicle departments used the engine number to identify the vehicle. 
American-built Fords used the engine number to identify the car from the 
beginning in 1903 right through to 1948.   For the Chrysler Corporation, the 
1926 models were the first the engine number and the serial number were not 
the same.

In the case of Chrysler Corporation, engines began using the Engineering 
Dept.'s model number as the engine number prefix in 1926.   As the model 
number was (with a few exceptions) model year unique, you could identify the 
make, model and year of the vehicle.  During 1957, when Chrysler began the 
move from make unique engines to corporate engines, the Engineering Dept's 
model year letter replaced the car line model number.   The change began in 
1958 in Canada.

The Engineering Department's model year letters were - A, B, C, D, E, F, G, 
H, J, K, L, M, P, R, S, T, and V.   "A" years were 1924-25, 1942, 1965 and 
1982.   Combined model years were 1924-25, 1946-48 and 1951-52.    The 
letter "Q" was used once - for the 1960 Valiant.   For the years 1973 
through 1979, the last digit of the model year was used in some cases 
instead of the model year letter.

When a model number was used for a second or third Engineering Dept. model 
year, an "*" was placed after the model number.    The 1934 (model year J) 
Chrysler Custom Imperial Airflow model CW was continued into 1935 (model 
year K) with very few changes and the same model number, which became CW*.

All 1964 engine numbers start with the letter "V", followed by the engine 
size (2 or 3 digits) and the date it was assembled - in the U.S.   Engines 
were also stamped with "HP" or "MP", when needed.   Canadian engines did not 
use the U.S. layout until the 1966 model year.

Chrysler pushbutton transmissions used two cables when the transmission had 
a park position.  No park position - one cable.  Thus all cast iron 
Powerflite and Torqueflite units have one cable.   The A904 in 1960-61 came 
in two versions - Valiant/Lancer (park sprag - 2 cables) and Plymouth/Dart 
(no park sprag - 1 cable).  The same held for the 1962 A-727 - 
Plymouth/Dart/Polara (park sprag - 2 cables) and Dodge 880/Chrysler/Imperial 
(no park sprag - 1 cable).   And as 1965 Torqueflite units had a park 
position, 2 cables were used.

As for the 1965 transmissions, the following were ball-and-trunion models 
and where they were used -

A-904 :
2466 120 - A body 170-cid
2466 119 - A body 225-cid
2466 118 - B & C body 225-cid & A body 273-cid
2466 122 - B body 273-cid
2466 123 - A body 273-cid

A-727 :
2466 111 - C body except HP & MP engine - early (before engine 78085C in 
CDA)
2466 112 - C body 361-cid & Chrysler (early) (before engine 70128C in CDA)
2466 113 - C body HP & MP engines - early  (before engine 66403C in CDA)
2466 125 - Imperial (early)
2466 134 - B & C body - 318-cid, 225-cid HD, & Taxi  - early (before VIN 
181816 in CDA)
2466 135 - B body with 273-cid
2466 144 - A body 273-cid, 4-bbl carb
2466 145 - A body 273-cid RHD

1965 Torqueflite with slip yoke output shaft -
A-727 :
2466 147 - C1,C2,C3 - late (from engine 70128C in CDA)
2466 148 - C body HP & MP engines - late (from engine 66403C in CDA)
2466 149 - Imperial (late)
2466 152 - B & C body - 318-cid HD & Taxi - late (from VIN 181816 in CDA)
2466 166 - C body except HP & MP engine - late (from engine 78085C in CDA)

Bill
Vancouver, BC



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr. Paul M. Pitcher" <pigdoc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: Block markings & trans stuff


> At 06:50 PM 9/9/2008, you wrote:
> > At 08:16 AM 9/9/2008, Bill Maurits wrote:
> > > I had a conversation with an "old" Mopar mechanic last night. He
> > > worked for a local Chrysler dealer for ~40 years and has recently
> > > retired to make money building and playing w/ and building race cars
> > > and motors...name is Garry Neese (sp?) if anyone knows him.
> > >
> > > Anyway, we got on the topic of block markings and he thought that
> > > sometime in the mid 60's was when they STARTED stamping ID's into
> > > blocks and before ~64 (he was not sure of the year) there was no year
> > > on the block or ID stamped...only a casting number. Is this true? If
> > > so, what was the cut off year?
> >
> > No, MoPar stamped blocks at least as far back as my 38 Plymouth.
> >
> > My 64 300's 413 was stamp with an T (for 63) then over stamped with a V 
> > (for 64) and also stamped 41 (for 413) and HP (for high Performance). 
> > That was an oddball engine.  had pre 64 style rocker arm stands (separate 
> > aluminum stands) but had 64 and up 6 bolt valve covers.
>
> Ya, "ID" is not a very specific term.  He may be trying to speak to the 
> point at which VINs began to be stamped on engine blocks (and 
> transmissions), which I believe was 1968, to comply with Federal law.
>
> When looking at a bare block and trying to figure out for what model year 
> it was machined, I just remember that A=1965, and count up from there.
>
> > > Next onto trannys - If I'm correct, 64 & older trannys had 2 cables,
> >
> > Yes, and also a kick down linkage if it was an auto.  With a ball and 
> > trunnion output shaft.
> >
> > > 65's were 1 cable, 1 linkage,
> >
> > No, still two cables and a kick down linkage,
>
> I agree.  FWIW, 1964 was the last year for push-button shift.  1965 
> introduced column shift with cables.  1966 used linkage rather than 
> cables.
>
> > like the early ones but with a slip yoke output shaft, unless it was a 904 
> > style trans, at least in the 65 A bodies which had the ball and trunnion 
> > output still.
>
> I could show you a '65 Newport with a 383, late build at the Newark 
> assembly plant that has a ball and trunnion driveshaft.
> It's lying in a junkyard 20 miles from where I live.
> Someone pointed out to me that the transmission could have been changed 
> out at some point, but I haven't bothered to do that investigation - the 
> car is resting on its subframes.
>
> > > Also, what year did the input shaft diameter
> > > change to the "modern" setup...was that 66 and 65's had the smaller
> > > shaft? Or did they change in 67?
> >
> >
> > 67, also the centering ring on the crank changed to accommodate the larger 
> > diameter centering snout on the converters.
>
> Interestingly, the meat for a bigger crank counterbore is present on the 
> earlier crankshafts - you just have to cut them out to a greater (1/4" 
> greater) inside diameter.  (Been there, done that).  I can confirm that 
> 1966 crankshafts have the smaller counterbore.
>
> pigdoc


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