On the rears John, you do have a point. The only way to make sure you have a hub with a perfect center is to turn them in a lathe with the axles you are going to use and make them a “matched set”.
The only real modification on my 1949 Desoto convertible was the brakes. I converted it to four-wheel disc with power. I used the stock master cylinder.
What we did was to pull the axle shafts and turned the hubs on them to make sure the disc was parallel. Run out is not a big deal with discs. Perpendicular is.
I also used a midland ross remote booster in the trunk next to the spare tire on the shelf. The same remote booster used in T-Birds and 1963-1964 300 RAM cars.
The brakes on that car work great. Almost too good. If you stomp on it hold on!
One the drum cars, I happen to have a brake shoe arc machine. What people need to be aware of is that most of the brake shoes sold are for drums 40 thousand OD and below. If you get shoes and have a drum over
40 you do not have enough lining to arc.
I get my shoes from Jeff at Moose Motors here in Northern California. He has a lot of “old” lining and relines my shoes. I can then arc as needed.
On the subject of arc machines…at some point in manufacture Ammco changed the machines to include the .006 clearance. On the old machines you had to do the math and turn the dial. On the later machines it
was built it. We had a hell of a time a couple of decades ago with a car that would not arc correctly. We pulled our hair out. Then we ran across the tech note from Ammco and did not add in the .006 and everything worked out fine.
I have asked at least a dozen people who have the machines which one they own and ALL of them had no idea. When we checked the part numbers about half were the early and half the late…
At the end of the day, I think sending the combined hub-drums to that company for relining the is the best way to go. I have a friend who has a 1958 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz convertible that is going through
the same issue with the front brakes. A shop that “knew what it was doing” got new drums and made them floaters. The brakes pulse so bad one can barely drive the thing. He has hunted for good used drums for a year without much luck. So, he is sending a set
to be relined. I am waiting to see how they come out and function.
James
From: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2024 06:51
To: James Douglas <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Chad Coulter <coulter22@xxxxxxxxx>; Noel Hastalis <cpaviper@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Chrysler300 <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} 300F Brake Shoes/Drums
quick comment , I wasted 4-6 months on this . failed ,,excellent machine shop and top shelf machinist Problem is finding hub center to center loose fitting new drums . ( loose on studs) ( it’s a taper . just try indexing it . not just
centered but run perfectly square to taper centerline ) — making end plugs etc
On the small diameter outer taper ends, even tiny error can cause a wobble of drum way out due to large OD . .001 at center becomes .01 ; so can get perfect turned ID but not parallel to axle .Pulsation , or off center or both .=
pulsation
Then comes centering drum with no pilot . Gonna make a new pilot in both parts ? good luck . Small runout gives you pulsation in pedal — that won’t go away with use.
Now add in need for perfect match of shoe diameter to a turned drum of larger size than shoe ( got that , needs larger shoe not smaller) = second bag of 20 new problems .Pin drum to hub on lath to center it , then turn at end ? Ought
to cover the issues? That was my idea of a simple approach . Great on paper ; You nay unbalance drum , nice new ID bore is not centered in drum casting — did that too — pins avoids swaging lugs to locate , did not work —problem was over matching centers to
like .0005 , and center of drum casting weight too . . Sounds easy , it’s not . At end, last redo i cut an old axle to get the taper ,ought to be centered in hub just like in car , but now open side of drum faces chuck . ? Turn from behind?
If you mount all this , in lathe , hard to explain but when axle is in lath chuck you really would have come in to cut drum from behind it , as thick part of taper and open of drum is toward lath chuck . live center not strong enough and—
I even had lathe tuned up , thought that was the problem . it was not . Axle shaft OD is as forged going toward pumpkin-/ it is not controlled , centered or machined , it is as forged . We had cut it off , did not have other end pilot to center rough part
with a cut . So it would be centered in chuck . Another source of error may enter
Gave up , got used ones with used shoes , put them in unturned , zero problems . Just like any car that is 20000 miles into brakes that will actually last 50000 . lesson = leave this part alone unless really shot. If shot find parts
car . need not be a 300
I went through all this and posted about it . Take away .= DO NOT TURN your drums just to make them look pretty . They will be scratched 1000 miles later , you make it thinner by turning , more likely to warp , make it so shoes don’t fit
( new or old)
if you do , now into shoes .. a too
large ID vs Shoe OD = grabbing poor performance etc . yes you can find someone with shoe lathe , will cut your new shoes , reducing thickness . but if you step back , you brought all the trouble on your self . if half worn , rebuild brake
hydraulics put it all back as you found it . I am serious . Fix cams etc . Be sure parts are right , shoes are right year notches springs etc FSM Many are scrambled .
Great brakes , but not after “ experts “ get at them . Why the bad rep existed in way back was brake shop “ experts “ flopped on fixing them, blamed the design
Especially in 2024 , correct tools not around , Also why Chrysler serviced it as balanced machined hub and drum , not loose .And often factory balance weights .
After taper went away you can service drum as it is piloted .
ymmv , but where I am on it .
By the way got into all the above only because i bought a car where an expert had already tried to change the drums , total failure , why the guy sold it to me (“ brakes need a little more work, but all new stuff” he says ) Right . Turned
into 4 months wasted , and a LOT of frustration .
The issue that can bite one in the butt it drum centering. The factory drums were swedged onto the hubs. If one takes a swedge cutter and removes the drum from the hub and tries to mount a new drum onto it,
turning it into a floating drum, in all probability it will end up out of round.
I know many people who have had this problem.
Dorman has stated that they do not make studs for swedging any more. They have also stated if you try to swedge their current studs you can create micro fractures that could lead to failure.
The only way around this would be to turn the hub center on a lathe, then turn open the new drum center and then machine a centering ring with index marks on the hub and drum. Then assemble the set and turn
the drum.
By the time one does all that, it would cost the same or less to send it out for relining.
James.
Thanks Noel, good to hear from you and appreciate the thoughts, will definitely explore these options.
Re your drums, I don't believe exact reproductions are being made. I suggest having your current drums re-lined. Your re-lined original brake drums will allow your lugs to be
swedged, as they always have been.
Alternatively, a few years ago I purchased new front drums from a fellow named Craig Stanley in NY - (516) 485-1935. My F's front drums had worn beyond being usable and I gave
them away. Stanley's drums have larger lug openings than the factory's, but they do work. I've run mine probably 30,000-40,000 miles and my brakes have preformed well.
There's an expensive option available to you - having your current drums re-lined by Jordan & Don in McHenry, IL - (815) 276-2578 -
www.jgrelining.com. I've heard several car guys in my area highly recommend this shop that relines drums for many American and foreign marques. You'll need to call them for their pricing. I've attached their business
card photo.
Hello all, does anyone have a recommendation as to the best source for these? Thanks in advance.
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