I would have liked on the rears, remember I am moving to disc on the front, to mount some new drums on the hub and use longer studs thus negating the need for the spacer and standard conical lug nuts (not ET version) could be used. I have seen to many nightmares with people trying to change to “floating” drums and not realizing that the drums are LUG CENTRIC. I have a cutter for the old studs.
The issue is that Dorman nor anyone else is still making studs that were designed for swedging. I talked to their engineer about it. He said he shutters when people tell him they use their current production studs and swedge them. The material and the design of them are not to be used to swedge. According to them the old studs were designed with extra material for the process and the metal was more malleable to allow it to be formed without inducing stress fractures.
One can take a hub and turn it and then take a new drum and turn that and make an adaptor ring to makes these hub-centric. A lot of time and money.
I have a friend with a 1950’s Cadillac who has been pulling his hair out over a brake issue. When I put a dial indicator on his front drum it was 0.20 out! No wonder the brakes were pulsating like crazy. Some shop took apart his hub-drum and put new drums on and they move a lot on the studs. The only thing one can do with this in the short run is to put the nuts on just snug and then spun the tire as hard and then very lightly ride the brakes. Essentially trying to center the drum with respect to the shoes. Then tightened the nuts.
I told him to send a set of his spare hub-drums to that company that will reline a drum. Not cheap, but then all the centric problems go away. He can well afford it as well.
James.
From: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2024 6:35 AM
To: James Douglas <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} FYI - Aftermarket Wheels on early 1960's Chrysler's
that us really good info ! Thank you
Also related is somethng i saw on the Studebaker site where their original wheels tend to crack “with radials” right at the rim They came with bias ply tires . Folk lore there is it is due to radials . Not being cynical , but from an engineering perspective i do not see how rim loading varies enough to change the fatigue load on a rim edge due to tire design ? But have learned in the past to not dismiss anecdotal stuff .I think the rims are poorly made ,or designed — has nothing to do with radial tires but many have radials now.
But irrespective of that , several people I really respect there got into this because of 4.5 wheel pattern ,Mopar and Ford wheels are the upgrade . However one of those very bright people pointed out that Ford and mopar lug nuts are specific to the rims ( I believe it is in the taper of nut and wheel , but may be something else too — like James described about bottoming out — and if you cross this the rim is improperly secured . As both nuts have the same threads and some of our mopars now have all right hand studs , this too is important regarding “ generic “ lug nuts .
Off the top of my head I can’t remember thread , is it 1/2-20 ? If trying to change drums on our hubs ( was a disaster for me — and done wrong a lot) we need to know the exact stud to press in an old hub hole . And you must use swage cutter to get them out or you destroy the hub press fit with animal pressing out . I could go on about 4/5 horror shows wheee some idiot messed up all this before I got the car , also involves centering the drum , pilot or not etc etc . Back in the day apparently the lugs were good enough . But mess it up hub is not correct to drum
Essentially to do it right in 2024 involves a swage cutter , and exact studs that are slightly oversize and press into old hub holes AND into drum to center it .precisely .
I did not know all this and besides I have a machine shop and competent guy never got drum right . Ideas of turning to center afterwards do not work . as drum “ hole” can be off center on drum mass leading to vibration . Many of our drums have a lot of balance weights or holes , showing mopar had these issues .
Also how far swage sticks out or Ford logs can happen .
This is an excellent subject and I don’t know the answers , but we need that stud number or description .
I do know that back in the day they could change drums on our hubs and it came out OK . I never got there . Ended up buying used and using as is . No turning .
Let’s find all this out … Thank you James ,
jkg
On Jun 2, 2024, at 8:51 AM, 'James Douglas' via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
While I am still thinking about it…a little tech info for anyone now or in the future…
There are some nice and reasonable priced aluminum wheels on the market. These tend to be cast and not forged. Many use a 60-degree conical nut just like the steel wheels, albeit they are longer nuts to fit down inside then lug holes.
There is problem however in that the stock wheel studs are all about 1inch long. The depth of aftermarket wheel lug holes is much deeper so, one needs to use Extended Thread (ET) lug nuts to get the full 10 turns as required for thread engagement. Fine for the passenger side. For the Driver side left hand thread…this is a problem.
I suspect that some people are running around with less than the full thread engagement and may not realize it.
After a day looking around it turn out that the only company making Extended Thread ½-20 in a left-hand thread is legendary.
If you try to use regular mag nuts, you will only get 8.5 turns. Not safe.
Now this can bring up another issue. The swedged studs. These stock studs have a base that is larger in diameter than the rest of the stud. It protrudes from the face of the drum about 0.140-inch. Aluminum wheels with extended thread lug nuts sit flush with the back of the wheel. When you go to mount the wheel the end of the nut will hit the swedge and the wheel cannot be mounted. My solution was to order up a set of custom wheel spacers, about 0.190 with the stud holes large enough to go past the swedge. That seems to solve the problem.
So, this is just a heads up note to anyone running a 1960’s MOPAR with stock factory one inch studs who wants to use an aftermarket aluminum wheel. File this in the back of your head of useless little bits of information. Just in case you decide to run mags on one of your cars.
James
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