Amen Gloria ---perfectly stated - then too there was the Chic Kramer caliber car - the most fun of all….(fenders flapping, etc. but man did he enjoy every minute with them - as did we with him)!Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - and in the purview of person who has the title of the car.I love these cars. There is nothing like them. Period. Personally I don’t like this E one little bit. But (and this is important) it’s not my car.The sad thing is - since we are caretakers of these bits of history- there is nothing left of this E to save or preserve for the future.Hank HallowellOn Mar 5, 2024, at 4:34 PM, Gloria Moon <agmoon300@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:There have always been different kinds of restorations. The first is what Gil called the "atomic molecular restoration" where every part on the car was restored back to original. If a part was beyond repair, a very similar one was used. That one is fairly expensive. Another restoration is the Show Car which usually over restores and prettifies the car for the Show Circuit. That one is extremely expensive. These are viewed as mobile art and not driven, but only trailered. And then there's the rest of us - restore them so you can drive them and the fenders don't fall off or flap going down the road, where smoke doesn't come rolling out from under the hood at a redlight, but they are safe and fun to drive anywhere.A car which incurs sufficient damage done to it so that it cannot be restored back to factory condition is not a restoration.--On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 3:33 PM Carl Bilter <cbilter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:--Well, at least our club has the decency to be respectful of each others thoughts and opinions, unlike the vicious social media reaction that ensued on Facebook over this car. Our club is about preservation and restoration of letter cars. It can be quite disheartening to see a letter car so radically altered, even if it is perhaps state of the art perfection in body, paint, mechanicals. Aesthetically, it makes me want to puke, but that's just my opinion which is of no consequence.
We have (or have had – may they R.I.P) many members who have gone to great lengths to find, store, preserve, drive, and/or restore letter cars for one overarching reason – for the love of the marque. Many if not most members are not high net worth individuals, they don't have the wherewithal to restore all the cars to the highest standards, they may not have sufficient storage facilities, they may have to do most of the work themselves, they will make mistakes, and most wind up underwater at some point on return-of-investment if they do sell. And most don't sell. Many of the cars tend to stay with their caretakers until death do they part. It is about the love of the marque.
Back in the day, the 300E was sort of the forgotten stepchild of the Forward Look letter cars. They weren't as fast as a C or D and they didn't have crossrams like the F and G. They were rare then and now. This particular E, M591100584, known to the club, was a factory copper spice car. Copper Spice was the second rarest factory E color, just beating out Turquoise Gray which is the rarest short of special order colors. The car should have been saved, not butchered. Club members may not have infinite resources and, perhaps because of that, aren't financial morons either – $22k was probably strong money for the car, and yes, even for free you'd be underwater financially on a proper restoration. But we do it for the lover of the marque.
So before someone retorts by asking since I care so dad gum much, why the heck didn't I buy it? I'll tell you why – same reason why probably no one else in the club bought it either – it needed too much relative to my interests and abilities at this age (irrespective of price), I did not have space, I'm already up to my eyeballs in other cars for which I have the means, knowledge and ability o properly address, and I can't save them all.
I respectfully disagree that this E lives on in this alien looking calamity. I do not believe it was the best outcome for this car.
Carl B.
------ Original Message ------From "Ron Waters" <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>To "'mike mccandless'" <my65cuda@xxxxxxx>Cc "'300 Club'" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>Date 3/5/2024 1:55:40 PMSubject RE: {Chrysler 300} Scroll down to the 300E--If you’re concerned about being ‘upside down’, then the perception is that it’s an investment.
If you don’t have the skills, then watch videos, attend classes at the local vocational school, read books, ask a relative or friend to teach you, etc.
If you don’t have the money, then get it to the point of drivability and address future repairs as money and time allow.
It should be a ‘labor of love’.
If you really want to be ‘upside down’, then take a trip to Disneyworld. 10-15K right there, depending on how many kids you have.
Ron
From: mike mccandless
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2024 2:09 PM
To: ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: 300 Club <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Scroll down to the 300E
I agree it shouldn’t be an investment, but where people struggle is the enormous cost of restoring one of these cars only to be significantly upside down afterwords. Most don’t understand you’ll be upside, but if you started with the car for free, you’re still a good bit upside down. With almost no reproduction parts, every restored car is the by product of parts cars. This guy parted out everything from the car he didn’t use, allowing other people to finish their cars. It’s the best ending for the car. 90% of people who would have bought it for 22k at auction, wouldn’t have the financial ability or technical knowledge to actually restore it.
Mike
On Mar 5, 2024, at 1:12 PM, Ron Waters <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I would argue the opposite. If demand softens and prices go down, it puts the cars within reach of more folks of modest income who could do a credible job of correctly restoring our cars. The 300E languished on the market and bounced around auctions because, for the amount of work it needed, it was not worth what sellers were asking. It finally sold to the present owner for 22K, which IMHO, was way too high.
People tend to view car collecting as an investment, rather than a hobby. How many times have we heard, ‘you shouldn’t restore that because you’ll have more into it than it’s worth’ ? If you’re in this hobby to make money, you’ve made a serious mistake. Go invest in real estate instead.
Ron
From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Dan Plotkin
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2024 12:39 PM
To: 'Brian and Kathy Frank' <300gforce@xxxxxxxxx>; highoctane300h@xxxxxxx
Cc: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Scroll down to the 300E
These are difficult times for purists that I suspect many of us are. I’ve struggled with this sort of thing while learning to keep my opinions to myself or if not among the likeminded. Yes the 300 E is among the rarest and automotive history might have been better served had the car been left alone. However there are now plenty of letter cars that have been left alone. There are not enough of us left who want to fix them and the prices keep inching down.
I wish this had not happened to this car. On the other hand its future beforehand was in doubt. The car survived even such as it now is. Probably better for it than in the hands of someone without the capital or inclination to restore it properly. When I see things like this I come home and pat my F on the roof, reminding it and myself how lucky I am we have each other!.
Danny Plotkin
From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Brian and Kathy Frank
Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2024 12:18 PM
To: highoctane300h@xxxxxxx
Cc: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Scroll down to the 300E
I'm not a "hot rod" or a "restomod" guy but even among those types of cars, I find this to be very unattractive. And that's not because he butchered a 1959 300E. The description says the roof pillars and doors are modified. Realistically, he could have started with a 4-door sedan Windsor and made this.
I recognize there is a lot of work, skill and craftmanship in this but it sure illustrates beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I also understand the guy who owns the car and pays the bills gets to make the decision. I just don't get why someone would use a real, salvageable letter car when the final product is so far from where it started anyway. Virtually any 1959 Chrysler (including a complete parts car) could have been used.
Maybe I'm too narrow minded and in the minority because the judges in Detroit obviously liked it.
Brian
On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 10:59 AM highoctane300h via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Evidently it wasn’t such a waste.
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