FW: Re: {Chrysler 300} A518 Trans, modify a 300 at all ?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2024, at 1:01 PM, dplotkin <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I bought Imperials cable and it was destroyed by the headers. I ended up with a B&M cable works just as well but you'll have to get a longer one. The one I have is shorter because I had to transition to a rod to pass in between the header tubes. You shouldn't have that problem.

Danny Plotkin

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: 'James Douglas' via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 1/18/24 12:57 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: "Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} A518 Trans, modify a 300 at all ?

Danny, that is not too bad. I will have to think about this.

Did you get a cable from Imperial Services? I do not know if they are still making a cable to use the stock console shift with the later 1965 on transmission. I thought I read someplace they stopped making them.

James

From: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2024 09:49
To: James Douglas <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} A518 Trans, modify a 300 at all ?

James-

These photos show the cut necessary for the Gearvendors clearance. Looks worse than it is, the GV unit is a great unit.

I think you are wise considering what you are trying to accomplish vs cost.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: "'James Douglas' via Chrysler 300 Club International" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2024 11:47am
To: "dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} A518 Trans, modify a 300 at all ?

Thanks.

The other question is cost-benefit.

I have the factory 727 in the car and a spare from 1964. I would have to source a rebuilt trans 1965 or later which would be a wash with rebuilding the earlier 727. Then $3500 for the GV unit. Plus costs to do a crossmember and the drive shaft. Say $4000 to $4500 more than just rebuilding the stock unit.

Back of the envelop calculations tells me that a round trip cost to coast with a 2.5 to 2.8 final drive ratio would save me about $2000 versus the stock 3.23.

So, it would take two full round trips to break even, not counting the daily usage savings…

I need to decide if all the time and effort in doing it would be worth it.

James

From: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2024 08:38
To: James Douglas <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} A518 Trans, modify a 300 at all ?

It was a small cut on passenger side of tunnel about 2 O'clock, I'll look for a photo from the build. It will be hidden, only you will know. Eventually you will forget. I did. Until you reminded me.

Danny Plotkin

-----Original Message-----
From: "James Douglas" <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2024 11:31am
To: "dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} A518 Trans, modify a 300 at all ?

Hi Danny,

You have a point. My question is “how much” and “where”. The problem I have seen is that once you start you can end up with a lot more issue than one thinks. If the car did not have a console, I would be more inclined, but I do not want to have to start cutting up a console to make clearance.

That is why I would like to find someone that has done it on a ’63 or ’64 floor pan so I can see how extensive or not the metal work done needs to be. I am not against cutting, I just do not want to open up a can of worms.

James

From: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2024 08:10
To: James Douglas <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} A518 Trans, modify a 300 at all ?

My opinion, likely worthless.

These are not Duesenberg's. If a small cut under the carpet, never seen again will have you driving and enjoying your car, well, that is a heck of a lot more important than a homogeneous floor pan.

Consider that Chrysler engineers hacked the floors on the special for the silly french transmission, didn't seem to cause less sleep, the cars are worth a million that way. Is it different because James did it instead of Fred at Chrysler? You both will likely cut it with a similar saw.

Danny Plotkin

-----Original Message-----
From: "'James Douglas' via Chrysler 300 Club International" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2024 10:56am
To: "dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} A518 Trans, modify a 300 at all ?

Hi Danny,

I did give that some thought; the only issue is I really hate to cut into the sheet metal. That is why the A518 idea intrigued me if it can be done without cutting the body.

I would love to find someone that did it on a ’63 or ’64 for either solution to see what it took.

The idea of having a 3.5 or 3.7 rearend with a 30% reduction would be a great thing for a daily driver and cross-country mount.

James

From: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2024 07:22
To: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: James Douglas <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>; chrysler 300 club <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} A518 Trans, modify a 300 at all ?

John Grady wrote: "They apparently make a GV you can use with 4 WD late 727 short output spline ( drops the long tail shaft ) sounds good , but details hard to find . So far . "

The attached picture shows my Gear Vendors behind my 727, replaces tail shaft. It's in a 61 Plymouth, required a small clearance cut to the tunnel.

The GV makes the car enjoyable on the street with 4:10's in back. Cannot say enough about it...its 16 yeas old and no problems.

Danny Plotkin

-----Original Message-----
From: "John Grady" <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2024 1:40pm
To: "James Douglas" <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "chrysler 300 club" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} A518 Trans, modify a 300 at all ?

Hi ,

on this , the problem is 518 is for A block motor it was never factory behind B block . adapters are available , I never did it . I did put 518 behind 450” 392 going into F ( i know i know ) “ Real 300 has a hemi , I like F” . Someone else said that .

A guy named Waters in Vermont makes stuff to put 518 behind any early A block . Bolt pattern is the same , 518 / 392 but need a spacer about 1.125 and flex plate conversion piece . Smart guy . I used his stuff Don’t have contact info handy —-TL Waters or TJ Waters

I am debating this now on another F ,

all this started on first one trying to put Gear Vendors OD on 62 PB trans into F . 62 A block PB 727 ( 318) are common . Goal was a lot more go off the line not gas mileage . You cannot put GV on a TF with a rear pump ( spent a year trying to work out , can’t be done, without making your own spline coupling and complicated billet adapter ) I do not know ifJ/K have rear pump ? Don V would know . Oil lines go into rear case Trying to keep push buttons was why I wanted that 62 trans in F .. idealist etc —A or B block .

Imperial Services once made external cable shift adapter for later ( ?66 up ?) TF to the early buttons , I copied that design myself from their pictures ( they stopped selling it ) I put the same idea onto the 518 , to keep F PB ; but you have to physically pull out ALL 518 park actuator stuff , and use lighter rooster comb spring from 62 on 518 trans. Buttons cannot move the heavy park actuator ( a surprise for you )

Did all that , not in the car yet - A and A 518 is a heavy duty build , a 90’s dodge truck 518 . Electrics another story , did that , 12 v on trans plug engages OD .Have to make an OD controller ,. Performance Trans sells nice analog one for this . .

Plus input spline of later 727 changed if you do go THAT way = , new converter . But generally a very good smart upgrade . Cannot get good converters for small spline old 727 TF now . Related , 70 challenger E body 8 3/4 axle fits F , you get real E brake , did that too on another (3rd) car ( 60 matador/ 440/ 727 ) same frame as F

But end of day on any letter car with brake on trans= no park no e brake , as you will lose early trans brake . So converted dana 60 axle in F # 1 to cadillac disc caliper with E brake built in the caliper ( auugh) They are a piece of work , believe me . on and on .

Advice , : you need 3:90 or more to use OD as engine rpm can be too low ( ratio is .~ . 7) , you want 3:23 -3:31 with the od in !

it will be very unhappy with J / K rams at 1200 - 1500 rpm cruise .

So moving on , some painful wisdom gained —- and as now older ,= avoid pain , F number two hot rod is going to be big B block , or gen 2 hemi so 727 with Gear Vendor or 518 ?is question ; a narrowed dana 60 4:30 in F # 2 now . So committed to OD . Now.

Net of all this ,now in 2024 , = forget PButtons or non park console setup , or the park with two cables , or early 727

trans in general . use a new hurst floor shift and cable ( looks way cool, like a 4 spd in F - in ash tray hole )so you can keep P on a late single cable ( post 66 ) 727 and then add a gear vendors , may have to beat out the floor a bit at GV unit . Supposedly fits B body ok .

Or , keep hurst shifter and P but with 518? = todays question

The bell is not the problem , back of 518 is way bigger a lot farther back ,— but it Fit in an F tunnel

. F had cast iron biggie but I think letter car floor pans all the same . note “think “

Given need for that non stock B to 518 adapter ($$$) and then a 518 ($$$) ,and control for it ($$) —- and fact : so easy to use a later crank / 440 and reasonable price late torqueflight , Add readily available HP converters for big spline 727 ( AA has a reasonable price super tech later converter for cadillac adapted to 727) and you then have park , and an e brake too — say on later dana drum or E body axle , that saving will more than pay for $$$$$$ gear vendors setup . 2k$ about . Need special drive shaft , 500 more, Dennie’s

One man’s long trek though this wilderness …

leaning now to late 727/ GV on F 2 , would go 518 on A block or new hemi . Brings up 415” mopar Indy small block in F ? 450 hp 200 lbs less ? handling!!!

They apparently make a GV you can use with 4 WD late 727 short output spline ( drops the long tail shaft ) sounds good , but details hard to find . So far .

Then there are guys selling late GM OD trans 4L80E and adapters (..no one say new hemi , hate computers ) and it has no distributor .

enough is enough .

your mileage may vary widely !

At end of day , I think J/K beautifully optimized by Chrysler exactly as they come . Leave stock! I had a J modified it, ( cam , shift kit) huge mistake .

Made exactly as they came for long distance trips , don’t need OD and all this fun .Spending 8 k to save gas needs some logic applied? may actually get worse gas mileage at way below design rpm at cruise . Cam is extremely inefficient that low . I guess 8 mpg , not a 40’s flathead .

But if you want to wipe out mr BMW to 80 , see first part above . At least the aggravating bright blue headlights should be behind me , even with his driving gloves , bra and all

he gets a good look at two 3” tailpipes and fins

jg

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 17, 2024, at 11:27 AM, 'James Douglas' via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I know that Tony Rinaldi did this swap into a Chrysler 300F. What I would like to ask the club membership is:

Does anyone know if anyone has done this saw pina 1963-1964 Chrysler?
Does anyone have any idea as to the floor pan clearances between a 300F and the J & K ?

I suspect that the cast iron Torqueflite bell housing was larger than the aluminum version in 1963 and then probably the floor pan clearance is less for a swap. Since I will be driving this car all the time and on cross country trips, it would be nice to do something to help with fuel and to be able to keep a 3.23 or even a 3.55 rear end in for fun when needed.

I have to rebuild a trans, mine is in need. But if a overdrive trans with a lock up converter can be done without cutting the pan, then I am very interested.

So, if anyone has any information, I would really like to hear about it.

Thanks, James

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