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Following up on this, I got another response to my inquires. I had asked AA Transmission (http://www.aandatrans.com/) who build a lot of parts for torqueflite’s about fluid. Their recommendation is: “We normally give three options, Dextron 3/Mercon, Type F, or ATF +4. Whatever is easiest for the customer to get. In our personal street and race cars we use Kendall ATF which is a dextron/mercon style fluid.” From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Behalf Of rdr_inc I've been following this thread about tyranny fluids but am not seeing any comments about the newer synthetics. Rick Dutkiewicz Haynes Sent from my Galaxy -------- Original message -------- Date: 2023-06-07 4:03 p.m. (GMT-05:00)
To: Henry Schleimer <henry.schleimer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: 'James Douglas' <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>, 'Chrysler 300 List Server' <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Transmission Lubrication
Tech bulletins are wonderful. Sometimes they are wrong or no longer applicable or need updating. Sometimes engineers are wrong too. My children often
point out that I am mostly always wrong about everything. However we should be willing to learn. Don Verity routinely rebuilds these units. The best old car automatic specialist I know sends all his Torque-Flights to Don. Don is not to my knowledge
an engineer but says to use Dexron. He says If you have type A use it. Don't use Synthetics. Following further inquiry. I posted John Kelly's videos as they explain far more than any of us seem to know. At the least Mr. Kelly explains that
Chrysler automatics were designed to use GM fluid specifications - type A and later Dexron. This should be the answer in the tech section. Type A is very hard to find and a Torque Flight wouldn't know the difference.
-----Original Message----- The Club provides Tech Bulletins to help people with answers to questions that have been asked before. A great resource. Tried watching the John Kelly films (boring) but he doesn’t mention that Chrysler engineers obviously had a problem with their early transmissions and recommended using Type
F which is not as slippery (see the Ford film) as a fix. Probably to stop the clutches slipping and burning out. These were America’s most powerful cars after all. I have a magazine test of a 1957 300C press car that lost its second gear after 7000 miles! In 1998 I bought a near new Mitsubishi KF Verada because it was a bloody good car and it was made in the old Chrysler plant in South Australia. A short time later I attended
a SAE technical presentation on the new KH model given by the Chief Engineer for Mitsubishi Australia. After the presentation I spoke to him about my KF and while praising it said the transmission sometimes seemed to be slipping after the lock up engaged
when changing into 4th gear. He told me it was a known problem but not one they advertised. He told me to go to my Mitsubishi Dealer and tell them that he said they must replace the fluid with the new spec for the KH which wasn’t as slippery.
When I dropped the engineer’s name at the dealership the manager’s eyes widened and immediately booked the car in. The car ran perfectly after that – and for another twenty four years. Sometimes even engineers make mistakes but they usually fix them (unlike politicians!) Henry (an engineer) NB Old Borg Warner 35 transmissions also burp fluid out the fill tube. In my case, after about 3 weeks standing. I replaced the fluid (Dex III ‘cos you can’t get Dex II any
more) in my 78 last week in the hope that the seals/valves might be rejuvenated a bit. Fingers crossed. From:
chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Dan Plotkin The question is asked over and over again because folks forget, new folks come and conventional wisdom permeates.
Conventional wisdom is usually not wisdom at all. Chrysler automatics since Adam & Eve used
GM fluid, type A. It adopted GM specs from the beginning. Type A became type A suffix A.
Dexron is the progression of type A and compatible with all older Chrysler automatics in our cars. This story about Dexron eating clutches is nonsense. You may have seen burned clutches.
Dexron did not cause it. In 1978 Mopar re-labeled Dexron as its own! Most automatics through the mid 60’s except Ford were designed to GM fluid specifications and as they became more sophisticated (well after the A466/904/727) manufacturers adopted their own specs.
Watch the John Kelly films and learn.
Danny Plotkin From:
chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Henry Schleimer I have followed the advice in the Club Tech Bulletin
https://www.chrysler300club.com/tech/geotrans/Lettercartrans.html which says Chrysler recommended Type A be replaced
by Type F. Do not use Dexron. Type F is available and cheap. Has anyone had failures using Type F? If not, why keep asking the same question over and over again? Henry From:
chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of dplotkin James, one thing that has always bothered me about the subject of what transmission fluid should be used in 60-year-old automatics that have
been rebuilt at least once and probably more than once since they were assembled originally at the factory with original composition clutch facings and so forth. My understanding is that the clutch facings and parts that come in the transmission rebuild kits we buy aren't the same as that used when these
Transmissions were assembled in the factory and when a fluid was specified to work with the friction surfaces in these transmissions. I believe that's why Don and other transmission experts will tell you to use Dexron because it works in just about everything that has been
rebuilt. What inside these Transmissions today do you think is actually sensitive to fluid type? I'm not trying to be a wise guy either expiring minds want to know. Danny Plotkin Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: 'James Douglas' via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 6/6/23 12:47 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)"
<chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: {Chrysler 300} Transmission Lubrication
I have been following the subject of lubrication in Torqueflites. What I would like to understand the science behind the various views on the subject. Reviewing the archives, I do see some strong opinions on the subject. But, I have yet to read anything that is backed
up by some science one way or the other. If anyone has a well-documented case for the use of a particular transmission fluid, I would like to read it. I can mention that I wrote an email to several lubrication manufacturers and asked them what is their recommendation for a replacement for a “Type A”, “Suffix A” transmission fluid. Two have responded so
far:
1.
Exxon-Mobil Support Engineering: “Our Mobil Multi Vehicle ATF is suitable for Suffix A requirement”.
2.
AMSOIL Technical Support: “our Signature Series Multi Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid, product code ATF, as a substitute for a Type A transmission fluid.” What I would like to know is what is the science behind recommendations to the contrary. I can tell you I spent a couple of years off and on running down the proper fluid, backed by period articles, SAE papers, and talks with the last vestiges of Gyrol on Fluid Drives. It completely contradicted
all the old wife’s tales that are still out there on that subject. I wrote an extensive technical paper on that. I have yet to see anything in-depth on the subject of ATF in older torqueflites.
So, for now, I do not have anything to hang my hat on, one way or the other on the subject. Anyone who can enlighten me, please do. James --
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