Re: {Chrysler 300} Transmission Lubrication

I attach a personal discussion with Don where he acknowledges Type FA is also an option.

Hi Tony,

It says for pre 1980 vehicles, so I think it would be OK. Probably easier to find too.

Don

Hi Don,

There is a Type FA. Any opinion whether it could also be used? It stands for Ford Automatic or Ford Anti Foaming Agents.

I heard that the original oils had Sperm Whale oils and no longer were available?

Tony

Here is a write up from the big block Ford site:

On the older shift kits from b&M they would recomend type F trans fluid for use in the brand x transmissions .the Type F helps give a firmer shift but doesn't hold up well to heat.

Type FA Transmission Fluid
Type FA is a high-quality transmission fluid specifically engineered to protect and prolong the life of automatic transmissions. It is designed for use where Ford specifications M2C33-F, M2C33-G and Ford Type F fluids are recommended.

•Provides excellent resistance against clutch slippage for extended transmission life
•Provides excellent resistance to fluid oxidation/breakdown at high temperatures
•Approved for 1980 and earlier Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles
•Approved for use in Mazda, Saab, Toyota, Volvo and other Japanese and European vehicles requiring a Type F fluid
•Other applications include air compressors, general purpose hydraulics and power steering systems
zoil A/C Compressor oil works good for modified high hp transmissions. type FA stands for ford automatic or ford anti foaming agents.

Tony Rinaldi

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023, 12:37 PM, Henry Schleimer <henry.schleimer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The Club provides Tech Bulletins to help people with answers to questions that have been asked before. A great resource.

Tried watching the John Kelly films (boring) but he doesn’t mention that Chrysler engineers obviously had a problem with their early transmissions and recommended using Type F which is not as slippery (see the Ford film) as a fix. Probably to stop the clutches slipping and burning out. These were America’s most powerful cars after all. I have a magazine test of a 1957 300C press car that lost its second gear after 7000 miles!

In 1998 I bought a near new Mitsubishi KF Verada because it was a bloody good car and it was made in the old Chrysler plant in South Australia. A short time later I attended a SAE technical presentation on the new KH model given by the Chief Engineer for Mitsubishi Australia. After the presentation I spoke to him about my KF and while praising it said the transmission sometimes seemed to be slipping after the lock up engaged when changing into 4^th gear. He told me it was a known problem but not one they advertised. He told me to go to my Mitsubishi Dealer and tell them that he said they must replace the fluid with the new spec for the KH which wasn’t as slippery. When I dropped the engineer’s name at the dealership the manager’s eyes widened and immediately booked the car in. The car ran perfectly after that – and for another twenty four years.

Sometimes even engineers make mistakes but they usually fix them (unlike politicians!)

Henry (an engineer)

NB Old Borg Warner 35 transmissions also burp fluid out the fill tube. In my case, after about 3 weeks standing. I replaced the fluid (Dex III ‘cos you can’t get Dex II any more) in my 78 last week in the hope that the seals/valves might be rejuvenated a bit. Fingers crossed.

From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dan Plotkin
Sent: Thursday, 8 June 2023 12:34 AM
To: 'Henry Schleimer'; 'James Douglas'; 'Chrysler 300 List Server'
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Transmission Lubrication

The question is asked over and over again because folks forget, new folks come and conventional wisdom permeates. Conventional wisdom is usually not wisdom at all. Chrysler automatics since Adam & Eve used GM fluid, type A. It adopted GM specs from the beginning. Type A became type A suffix A. Dexron is the progression of type A and compatible with all older Chrysler automatics in our cars. This story about Dexron eating clutches is nonsense. You may have seen burned clutches. Dexron did not cause it. In 1978 Mopar re-labeled Dexron as its own!

Most automatics through the mid 60’s except Ford were designed to GM fluid specifications and as they became more sophisticated (well after the A466/904/727) manufacturers adopted their own specs.

Watch the John Kelly films and learn.

Danny Plotkin

From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Henry Schleimer
Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 1:06 AM
To: 'dplotkin' <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; 'James Douglas' <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>; 'Chrysler 300 List Server' <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Transmission Lubrication

I have followed the advice in the Club Tech Bulletin https://www.chrysler300club.com/tech/geotrans/Lettercartrans.html which says Chrysler recommended Type A be replaced by Type F. Do not use Dexron. Type F is available and cheap. Has anyone had failures using Type F? If not, why keep asking the same question over and over again?

Henry

From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of dplotkin
Sent: Wednesday, 7 June 2023 5:46 AM
To: James Douglas; Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Transmission Lubrication

James, one thing that has always bothered me about the subject of what transmission fluid should be used in 60-year-old automatics that have been rebuilt at least once and probably more than once since they were assembled originally at the factory with original composition clutch facings and so forth.

My understanding is that the clutch facings and parts that come in the transmission rebuild kits we buy aren't the same as that used when these Transmissions were assembled in the factory and when a fluid was specified to work with the friction surfaces in these transmissions.

I believe that's why Don and other transmission experts will tell you to use Dexron because it works in just about everything that has been rebuilt. What inside these Transmissions today do you think is actually sensitive to fluid type? I'm not trying to be a wise guy either expiring minds want to know.

Danny Plotkin

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: 'James Douglas' via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 6/6/23 12:47 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: {Chrysler 300} Transmission Lubrication

I have been following the subject of lubrication in Torqueflites.

What I would like to understand the science behind the various views on the subject. Reviewing the archives, I do see some strong opinions on the subject. But, I have yet to read anything that is backed up by some science one way or the other.

If anyone has a well-documented case for the use of a particular transmission fluid, I would like to read it.

I can mention that I wrote an email to several lubrication manufacturers and asked them what is their recommendation for a replacement for a “Type A”, “Suffix A” transmission fluid. Two have responded so far:

1. Exxon-Mobil Support Engineering: “Our Mobil Multi Vehicle ATF is suitable for Suffix A requirement”.

2. AMSOIL Technical Support: “our Signature Series Multi Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid, product code ATF, as a substitute for a Type A transmission fluid.”

What I would like to know is what is the science behind recommendations to the contrary.

I can tell you I spent a couple of years off and on running down the proper fluid, backed by period articles, SAE papers, and talks with the last vestiges of Gyrol on Fluid Drives. It completely contradicted all the old wife’s tales that are still out there on that subject. I wrote an extensive technical paper on that. I have yet to see anything in-depth on the subject of ATF in older torqueflites.

So, for now, I do not have anything to hang my hat on, one way or the other on the subject.

Anyone who can enlighten me, please do.

James

--
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/CY5PR19MB6171C524CEDA941C1FCA38069352A%40CY5PR19MB6171.namprd19.prod.outlook.com.
--
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/647f8d0c.050a0220.f681b.9312SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING%40gmr-mx.google.com.
--
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/64801038.050a0220.65347.7d7aSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN%40gmr-mx.google.com.
--
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/00f701d9994d%242b44f010%2481ced030%24%40northeastretail.com.
--
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/6480b230.c50a0220.8baa.b357SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN%40gmr-mx.google.com.