| better to just crimp on new hooded 1/4 flags ? those round ones seem to get loose despite tightening , and the wire strands seem to break there . 3 M pink ones are good . Add piece of shrink tube to back too That is an overall upgrade by Harley ? Probably for same reason ? On that crimp — get T and B tool ( orange and black handles ) that does longitudinal crimps. The cheap ones that do a flat “ crimp “ are junk , crimp is poor , looks awful Don you have a source / number for it ? thanks John Sent from my iPhone On Apr 26, 2023, at 5:52 PM, Keith. Langendorfer <keith_a_lang@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I just picked up the Harley OEM switch (made in Italy) and it’s now got the blade type male terminals on top (suffix on P/N is 51E, not D as that was superseded).
Is there an available (over the counter) adapter/pigtail with one male round end for the existing wiring and one female blade end for the switch?
Keith
On Apr 26, 2023, at 8:30 AM, John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
thank you for this , will try it ! john Sent from my iPhone On Apr 25, 2023, at 6:31 PM, Nick Taylor <nicksgaragesd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
This is the one I'm putting on my 300F. Just needs a short brass adapter and a male-to-female jumper wire. My friend uses them on all his 1960-61 Mopars.
that design you describe with a bellows or snap disc is the right way to make the switch . Maybe there are several designs out there . Mine had contacts in the fluid which surprised me . I forget exact mechanism , I was just after contact condition . The white stuff was definitely non conductive But varying designs , leaks or not, with bellows or not , might explain wide variations in experience with these. Maybe Harley switch has contacts in air, as you describe .
I really like standard products too , the old blue streak line .You are probably aware they are trying to deal with low prices of cheap imported junk by having two lines , same part number , but a T added to the cheaper “ ? imported” line , not sure if higher price line is BS or not .I trend to trust them . That is an honest way to handle that .
However on a constant hassle jeep / mopar PWM radiator fan speed module ( 90’s through ~ 2004 ) I ended up with three , all obviously totally identical , two branded Standard and one Gates . All the big guys are rebranding the same Chinese junk to make $. Gates makes belts, not electronics
On the jeep Grand Cherokee or other mopar if anyone is interested , I designed a circuit to change the PWM speed control signal ( pia stock mopar unit and replacements fail all the time, of course in heavy city traffic on the hottest day of the year with AC full on — You cause the traffic jam . it is behind headlight under battery on a WJ , huge job to get at it , up there in utter access aggravation with mopar paper AC cores and paper heater cores !! 2000 $ labor to get at those . Whole dash , all of it, and console comes out. 200 wires . Local good guy mopar shop “ won’t do it anymore “ even for 2 k , “ junk the car , not worth it “ Or no heat / AC
so now computer signal in my GC pulls in a beefy 30 A relay , fan goes fully on and off , runs as needed by computer = no more hassles . Failure of this 20$ thing can cost you an engine , if you walk away leaving it idling . I was lucky — caught in nick of time , coolant screaming out boiled off two gallons . Engine was still ok. Happened twice before , without boiling but had not left idling . You do not know it is dead , it just overheats ( no fan ) but if on highway or moving it cools ok .All the damn error codes —-yet none for fan not turning .
While on this , despite big rep that they really foster , SPAL fans are junk too .Stay away Hardened dowel pin in drive coupling from motor to blades breaks like glass due to terrible design, slip fit of pin in shaft . That wrecks motor shaft and fan bushing . Should be a spirol pin 25 % larger and longer too . The guy talks real nice to you for a long time , the fans keep breaking the pins . Right . Talk does not fix incompetent engineering , but marketing guys think it does , blame it on customer . Pin has to handle max available motor torque - what part of that most confuses you? Plus it uses brushless motor , that design is really not compatible with PWM speed control . Corvette guys having same issuers Dealer says “not giving you another one again ” … he is fed up too . Have to drain car to get fan in and out , one shroud bolt inaccessible Jkg Sent from my iPhone Regarding brake light switches and DOT 5 fluid use we certainly have a mix of observations,opinions, and diagnoses. I too have had some failures and I have rejected the idea that DOT 5 was the cause. There are, no doubt , numerous manufacturers of those switches but my experiences have been limited to those made by Standard Motor Products, Inc. whose products have worked well for me for more than 5 decades. That said, my recent 2 failures were with newly manufactured (in Mexico) Standard brand switches. I have carefully disassembled both an old switch and one of the recent new ones and I found that the internal design was changed.
In both cases the contacts are NOT exposed to any brake fluid, but are enclosed within a sealed air chamber isolated from the pressurized brake fluid by a flexible diaphragm which is linked by a small pin to press a spring loaded plate against the two electrical contacts. A mechanical failure within the switch is the only way that fluid would ever enter the chamber where the contacts reside. This very old switch had failed because of an accumulation of rust particles and maybe other contaminants that had entered the small orifice through which the pressurized fluid must enter to move the diaphragm and contact disc. When cleaned out it was still a functional switch.
The newly manufactured switch was different only in that the diaphragm was made of different material.. The old one had a pressed-in springy brass disc which was stretched a bit and acted like the bottom of an old oil can so that it "snapped' the contacts together" when applied and then "snapped " back when released, The sealing was excellent and I believe not at all prone to failure. The new switch had a rubber-like material for the diaphragm and when I opened the "sealed" contact chamber I found it flooded with fluid that had leaked into it through poor sealing of the diaphragm against the body of the switch There was no rupture of the diaphragm. When the air chamber (contact chamber) became filled with fluid the diaphragm could no longer press the contacts together. Air in the chamber could be easily compressed, but the liquid filled chamber prevented that.
Early stages of the failure displayed a that a slight increase in the amount of brake pedal pressure was required to turn on the brake lights. As the next 2 or 3 weeks passed I had to press the pedal quite a bit harder to turn them on and soon they no longer worked at all. My experiences were with my '55 Chrysler 300 which I drive almost every morning in the early (not yet daylight) hours. I store my car in a shed that I back the car into each time I drive it and It is easy to see brake light function. I have no back-up lights and the brake lights are useful for me as I back into the shed. I depend upon them to work well.
The switch presently installed is also a newly manufactured STANDARD switch and continues to function well now for about 2 years.
---------------------------Marshall ---------- Original Message ---------- From: John Grady < jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: dplotkin < dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Cc: "D.C. Mason" < petergriffinforpresident@xxxxxxxxx>, 300 Club < chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Brake switch for silicone fluid Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 07:49:56 -0400
Hi ,
I got into this after a few failures , I took one apart by cutting as i felt at the time it was inaccurate and anecdotal story that DOT 5 (which i use always ) causes switch failure . But here were failures , and i never had a hydraulic switch fail before —,ever .
So inside the switch there was a white coating on the switch contacts . Further looking into it from EE perspective , there is some kind of chemical decomposition of the silicone oil when an intense enough arc happens in it . That probably means current level / heat when the contacts separate millionths of an inch as silicone itself is a very good insulator ( 40,000 v per .1” !) .
The problem is not unlike points , and current is maybe 4 A, ok in oil or apparently glycol , but chemically the arc does something to silicone oil leaving an insulating residue on the contacts .
So after seeing it myself , I admit to a 180 .
Contacts in silicone oil are a bad idea no matter what you do , one might envision sliding self scraping contacts etc etc but the basic problem is real . I expected a bellows or something but contacts them selves were in the oil . These were stock switches . Unless a bellows is used moving contacts out if oil is in a Harley switch , it has to deal with the residue .
( like batteries discharging on cement floors — also true— another 180 ) .
Best cure is microswitch on pedal box , V3 with a long arm is a good place to start to roll your own , — as it is a matter of when it fails ( number of operations ) not if .
Being rear ended because of no brake lights and you don’t know that is not a happy day .
Quick check watch ammeter when stepping you can see the jump .
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