| It is grounded through motor on 62 back , for sure . The issue is what year did it change ? I want to know too . John Brings up for me the importance of my noting Year … stuff changes a lot in 62-65 time frame , 727 , park brake, service brakes , park in trans or not etc etc Sent from my iPhone On Feb 1, 2023, at 2:38 PM, Ray Jones <1970hurst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Just to clarify, if you touch + to one of the terminals, and - to the body of the motor, it doesn't care. Does not work.
The motor is NOT grounded thru the body of the motor RAY
Yes. I'm sure. Worked on many of these. Ron was talking about a 1965 300, so I answered that problem. The motors in 1965, like I said, were directional by switching polarity. + here and - they ran one way, switch those two wires and it ran the other way.
These motors, by the way, were used into the 1980's , I'm not when they ended. My '79 Lil Red Express had the same motors and don't remember which one of my rigs it was I had later which had them also. May have been a 90's car/truck. I had quite a few collected over tooooo many years, and helped a number of folks along the way. I think I sold all my leftover motors and parts to Murry Park when I sold our place and moved back to MD.
As an aside, when I was 18, I bought a 1949 Merc conv with power windows. Soon after, I bought a 1951 Merc conv. Worked at a body shop after school, and heavily customized both. I learned then how to work on power windows and tops. Soon I was the goto guy for these problems among my buddies and their friends. I also learned auto electric and solved many friends' troubles. If they can now be found, the very best pamphlets on many auto subjects are the "Hot Rod" series published in the late 40's or early 50's. Written for young people, they ground you in the very basic theory of each subject. The electrical book equated electrical "workings" to water supply. Valves = switches, pipe diameter = current supply ie: voltage/amperage, and many more mentally visioned memes. That has stuck with me for the last 65 years.
Ray
Ray , are you sure about that , the + and - ?
That is NOT so on 57-62 , the ones with a green and brown or black wire . Or stud terminals on motor case . Later PW with small permanent magnet motors are like you describe , with a relay or complicated Pw switch to reverse electricity .Maybe by 64 or 65 they changed to that ? I don’t think so , would like to know if they did . I never worked on a 300 later than 62 . Easy to tell , if back single switch has three pins and the two outer wires go to motor directly with center pin hot from power , it is the style used by mopar for many years . Switch connects center pin to one or other, it has two field windings inside wound in opposite directions , only one wire is used at a time and it is always made positive . Only one field is on at a time, but magnetism reverses due to opposite direction of winding . This avoids the high complexity of reversing the wire and ground polarity at a switch . And wound motors run the same direction if you change .+ and - because both the field and armature reverse , relative to each other is still push or pull same way . The current passes though one or other wire on these through field then into brush / armature and yes , out other brush to ground of motor case .Ground is very important . In a series motor the torque and current drawn is highest at start / low rpm . Unloaded it would spin very fast . They are used in old subway or trolley cars because of that . Starting a heavy load . A reversing switch obviously needs 4 pins ,—- hot and ground in and the motor has two . Today done by DPDT relays driven by small low current switches or cpu . The chrysler design has to switch 20 amps or so , at switch — which leads to heavy wires but a simple switch . SPST .
If you connect 12 v across the two wires the two field windings burn up and motor does not move at all , all in the time you are wondering why no spin . Just sayin !
Test of window etc eliminating switch just jump center feed 12 v at switch to motor —one wire at a time . If the design is same as earlier . Uses car power instead of tractor battery . Ron already ran it , another cue to design . Did you ground one wire to body or put put 12 v on both ? And then reverse ? I doubt he did that ,
John Ps there is a thermal breaker in the motor end with brushes to ground — at the grounded brush , will pop open if jammed —closes a minute or two later . Also prevents kid playing with switch from burning out the motor . Can confuse you . They can get rusty and fail if water gets in , but impacts both directions Sent from my iPhone You guys have given me a lot to chew on. I am now wondering about atarting by checking the rear window switch. Will keep you posted. Thank you much. Ron Hi Ron; John has given some great advice.
Note these motors are NOT grounded, they work off the 2 wires, one is ground and the other is positive. The change is determined at the switch. It makes the window go up or down depending on which terminal provides a positive. All voltage checks are using the harness for both + and -. Do not use body ground for these checks.
I agree that you should check the voltage being supplied to the motor. Have someone work the Master switch and see what the voltage is at the motor.. Check both up and down, they should be the same voltage. Check with the motor unhooked from the harness and check just the harness at the connection. If voltage is the same at each post, then remove the motor (regulator still in the car) and manually move the window up and down, Should move freely both ways, looking for any binding. Windows are counterbalanced with the spring, so the motor has no more work to do going up or down . You said the tractor battery hooked directly moved the window up and down, did it do that equally? No binding.
If voltage at the motor is less using the UP Master switch, check voltage at the switch Up and Down to see if output is the same. This checks the harness between switch and motor. Might as well check ALL master switch terminals.
Don't forget to check the windows (1/4 panel) switch, both in and out.
As John said, switches can have internal problems. So, spread a clean white towel on a bench/table so that any parts trying to escape are seen and caught. Then carefully take the switch apart, per John's description. Mopar is famous for "Use it or lose it", so you might find some corroded contacts inside.
NOTE: These springs are lethal, so NEVER take the motor off the regulator on the bench unless you clamp or better yet, Drill a hole through an arm and the frame of the regulator and bolt them together. That way the spring cannot unload violently and do major damage to yourself. I KNOW!
One final thing. There are only 2 motors. LF and RR are the same part #, and RF and LR are the same. Hope this helps, Ray
Hi Ron , I think you have a mechanical bind . If lights dim motor is getting power . So problem is not wiring or switches . It is at window location . So rear switch and wires are therefore ok ? But can’t overcome the mechanical load These wires have some normal drop . When you use tractor battery almost no drop short wires motor has more torque . The bind could be in motor not rebuilt right , or in worm gear box , but not likely .If you have a 20A ammeter you can check draw . Compare to others . Usually problem is in window adjustment etc . Very critical . I had new rubber in a 57 and it dragged badly by friction on the rear windows . Would not go up all the way . I noticed some factory 57 rubber had flocking on the rubber . I think for that reason . Especially 57 -59 Window cannot rub heavily on rubber . Many replacement tubber guys do not have flocking Tempted by silicone on rubbing place but lots of big drawbacks as you know. Maybe wax . . Finally sort of gave up .. window not optimally tight when adjusted to move ok . No other answer on 57 except ? Keep old rubber . I believe some 60 have a more powerful motor in back ( it is obviously longer ) but they all interchange and thus get mixed up Usually harder in up direction for motor .. also gets into counterbalance spring , I assume good and in right ? when you say dome quite dim — check battery posts and battery too . But still likely a bind. You could check exact volts at motor terminal to ground , but binding draws more amps volts will drop more John G PS Front switch may be bad , they fail inside one contact burns off . Not uncommon . I have taken apart bad ones and used remaining good parts from other multi gang bad or ugly ones ( save those) fixed them . And fits singles . Very carefully bend back pot metal crimps , (minimally ) go easy . Do junk one first . May break .—-the back phenolic board can break too ,use box cutter at edges etc go very easy . They crack easily through one of contact pin drillings I resecure back with any good crimps left or slight bend in of pit metal next to old crimp and epoxy - slight tap with hammer and pin punch in vise works. . Little springs are often rusty , drop of light oil helps . And swap bad contacts . This for 57- 60 - 62 but others look the same to me Sent from my iPhone To all 300'ers:
First, thanks to those folks who have given me tips to get me this far. Bottom line: My passenger rear power window on my 1965 Chrysler 300 only moves with the switch in the down direction. When the switch adjacent to the rear window is hit to raise the window, a click can be heard at the motor and the dome light goes quite dim, but no movement at all. Now for the history:
1) The master switch connector on the driver's door has been replaced thanks to Murray Park (the old one was cracked). I took super care to crimp all wires tight and properly. That being said, there is no activity from that front switch to the right rear motor. This condition pre-existed the master switch connector replacement. All three other power windows work properly from either the master switch or the window switch. 2) The power window motor in question was just "rebuilt" by a local small motor company. After gooping the assembly tracks, regulator and rollers with grease and silicone , I hooked up a spare PW connector wire set to the motor and to a small 12V tractor battery. I am able to get the window both up and down doing this. 3) The PW switch at the rear window has not been replaced, but to me it does not seem like the switch would cause the problem I describe above. 4) After tracing and inspecting wires from the rear up to the front dash where the majority exit to the master switch, I have determined that there are no visible rips or tears in the harness tape between the two. The exception could be within the door-to-body wire shield, where I cannot inspect the wires.
My best conclusion is that there is some "dead short" between my two PW switches. My manual's wiring diagram is simple in this aspect...the two switches are directly connected with two "directional" wires. A third common wire leads directly from the instrument panel wiring. That wire must be fine or my window would not work in either direction. I am thinking about replacing (with splicing) one or both the two directional wires along the entire length to see if that corrects the problem.
If anyone out there can understand this and can either agree or offer another idea, I would be most appreciative.
Sincerely,
Ron Klinczar 1965 Chrysler 300 in Ice Blue
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Ray Jones. Y'all come on down an see us. Ya hear?
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Ray Jones. Y'all come on down an see us. Ya hear?
-- Ray Jones. Y'all come on down an see us. Ya hear?
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