Re: {Chrysler 300} 300E/300F Blue Streak, Captive Air Tire Summary

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 6:55 PM Nick Taylor <nicksgaragesd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I found the attached which gives more information on the size.

It looks like it was a failed experiment. Didn't find any ads for replacement tires and not mention of it past 1958. Only a couple mentions in classifieds for 1958 Imperials for sale. Not mentioned in the Imperial brochure or service manual.

As for the Firestone Perma Spare, I found a ton of articles about it over two years. Mostly the same copy and pictures, obviously from a press release. A couple articles went into more detail. The way it worked is that you jacked up the car, removed the hubcap and lug nuts, and then put it over the flat tire and replaced the lug nuts. So the flat tire stayed on the car. You could go 100 miles at 45mph. I found one article that stated that the Perma Spare was deemed irrelevant since you could get the Goodyear Captive-Air tires, which negated the need for a spare entirely.

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 6:22 PM EM-ATC-2021 <millserat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Assuming they followed sizing convention of that time, section height would have been 83% of section width.

So 11.0x14 would be 11.0x.83x2 + 14 = 32.26 in OD

For reference the LT275/70R18 tires on my RAM 3500 are 275x.70x2/25.4 +18 = 33.15 in OD

7.50-14 would have been 7.50x.83x2 + 14 = 26.45 in OD

9.50-14 would have been 9.50x.83x2 + 14 = 29.77 in OD

Firestone 9.50-14 Deluxe Champion 1961 Spec was 29.6 in OD with an 8.8 in Section Width Measured on a 6.0 inch rim and a 13.6 Static Loaded Radius

BF Goodrich 9.50-14 Deluxe Silvertown 1960 Spec was 29.5 in OD with an 8.8 in Section Width on a 6.5 inch rim with a 13.5 in Static Loaded Radius and a 5.13 in Tread Width

General 9.50-14 1959 OE Spec was 29.7 in OD with a 9.0 in Section Width on a 6.5 inch rim with a 13.9 in Static Loaded Radius

9.50-14 Specs show 1465 lb at 24 psi - no higher pressures are listed as of 1962

Largest current production 14 in are American Classic P235/75R14 which shows 27.87 in OD per Mfg Spec

On 1/18/2023 7:00 PM, Nick Taylor wrote:

Crazy big tire. Looks like they were made as an option on the 1958 Imperial. See attached.. I wonder what the total diameter was? Must have looked weird at the time. Also found a bonus weird tire thing. Check out the Firestone Perma Spare. We have donut tires now but this is more a pizza.

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 3:50 PM EM-ATC-2021 <millserat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Wow - I have never heard of an 11.00-14 - largest OE I ever saw was 9.50-14 on 1957-1959 Imperial and 1958-1960 Lincoln Continental. Imperials went back to 15s in 1960 and Continentals went down to 9.00-14 in 1961 and then back to 15s in 1964. Cadillac never went to 14s.

On 1/18/2023 5:19 PM, D.C. Mason wrote:

A fun ad from Cars of the Fabulous 50s:

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2023, at 2:49 PM, EM-ATC-2021 <millserat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

As I recall the Rayon (Tyrex) Goodyears were the Super Cushion and later circa 1965 Power Cushion while the Nylon variants were the Custom Super Cushion and Custom Power Cushion and of course the Premium or Top of the Line was the Double Eagle (with or without the inner liner). The Blue Streaks were considered a specialty or "High Performance" tire - cant remember when they were discontinued.

Its also worth noting that beginning with the introduction of Tubeless Tires (1955?) and the 14 inch tires (1957) lots of changes were going on in tire design. The 1955 tires were significantly different from the 1954 tread patterns and the 1957 tires were substantially different from the 1955 tread designs. There were numerous problems including groove cracking on the 1955-56 OE tires from several manufacturers so upgrading made a difference both in reliability and in mileage.

As an aside, the big % tire manufacturers were Goodyear, Firestone, BF Goodrich, US Royal, and General. GM which had a backdoor ownership in US Royal (later Uniroyal) used primarily US Royal, but also used in lesser quantities Goodyear, Firestone, BF Goodrich, and General. Possibly because there were so many OE US Royals out there on GM cars, they had a horrible reputation.

Ford used Firestone, Goodyear, BF Goodrich, and General. And Chrysler used only Goodyear and BF Goodrich at least until the tire manufactures strike circa late 1966 (1967 model year) as I recall at which point the auto manufacturers as well as the tire dealers were scrambling to get whatever they could. An extra digit was added to fender tag tire size code to indicate whether car was shipped without a spare (code 4) or with a spare (code 5). As a BF Goodrich dealer we once got a partial shipment of Goodyear tires substituted for what we had ordered.

And as to pressures, car manufacturers recommended 22-24 for a smooth ride in the 50's, but there was generally a caveat somewhere buried in the car manual to increase tire pressures by 4 psi for sustained high speeds (60 mph was considered high speed before the Interstates) but beginning some time in the 60's it was common for tire dealers to set pressures at 32 psi which was the max load pressure from the tables. Too many people were having wear and tire reliability issues at lower pressures.
On 1/18/2023 12:46 PM, Dyke Ridgley wrote:

Yes, the previous comments about lots of new car tire trade-ins in the 50-60s are correct. My father always very quickly took a new car to the tire store and got rid of the "cheap" rayon tires for a "good" set of nylon tires that would withstand his high speed driving.

Dyke Ridgley

Ridgley Racing

5500 Walmsley Rd

Decatur, IL 62521

217-865-2300 p

217-865-2309 f

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 12:35 PM Nick Taylor <nicksgaragesd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Thanks for your feedback.

While doing my research, I read many pieces in period newspaper articles and advertisements covering the advantages and disadvantages of both types. Nylon corded tires were promoted as the premium offering and were an option it seems for most Chrysler product cars, at least in 1960. I don't know what the take rate was on them though. Period Goodyear ads offered both types of Super Cushion tires, and often promoted trading in your old tires as an upgrade. In vintage car classified ads, I was surprised to see how many one year old cars, with low mileage, stated that the cars had new tires.

An interesting read is Tom McCahills writing about tire pressure and that car manufacturers promoted low tire pressures to make the cars ride better to offset poor suspension design, and that it was wrong. For instance, the 300F recommended tire pressure is only 22 pounds on a large 14" tire. He stated that he would only use 30 pounds and above on his tires and that they would last much longer that way.

Nick

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 10:12 AM EM-ATC-2021 <millserat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Nylon tires were generally viewed as superior in strength and impact and heat resistance as well as being less susceptible to aging and moisture degradation in the case of punctures or minor cuts exposing rayon cord to environmental conditions.

The major drawback of Nylon tires was cold weather thump. The Nylon tires developed flat spots sitting overnight. Until they warmed up they produced a noticeable thump. This generated extreme complaints particularly in Northern areas with colder weather - and car manufacturers obviously wanted to avoid such complaints.

Rayon tires were the answer (and were slightly cheaper than corresponding grades of Nylon tires - something not insignificant to auto manufacturers). As far as I can recall, the major auto manufactures never used anything except Rayon / Tyrex thru the 1950s / 1960s. Tyrex was a later "improved" incarnation of Rayon.

The blue streak tires on the 300's were an exception in that they used Nylon tires which were viewed as superior to the rayon equivalents with respect to speed and temperature.

And just an aside as to Original Equipment tires in the 50s and 60s - and up until the introduction of the polyglas tires as OE circa late 1969 / early 1970, OE tires were generally considered as "junk" by many. They were designed for cost and rayon was cheaper.

It was not uncommon as a tire dealer in Louisiana in 60s to have a new car buyer come in and upgrade the OE Rayon / Tyrex tires to a set of Nylon tires. We only stocked a few Rayon tires for adjustments of OE defects, but for resale both higher and lower grades were almost exclusively Nylon in the 60's. Tire manufacturers actually published recommended trade prices for a set of 4. The dealer would then sell the set as "Take-Offs" at a deep discount.

On 1/14/2023 1:56 PM, Nick Taylor wrote:

One the images that Marshall shared is a label in his trunk for Tyrex cord. I did some research on this and it is interesting. This label is for rayon cords in tires. The Goodyear Blue Streak tires came with nylon cords.

Seems there was a battle going on between makers of rayon cords versus those making nylon ones. Goodyear used both kings but the nylon corded tires were their premium offering over rayon.

Here's an article from 1961 covering this battle. https://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,894541,00.html

I could not find any tire manufacturer ad mentioning Tyrex but there are lots of standalone Tyrex ads with several implying that nylon cords were actually unsafe.

A mystery why his car has this label in the trunk. Anyone else have one?

Nick

On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 8:59 AM Marshall Larson <granitledge@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

More information on Captive Air tires.

I have two sets of these tires. This is how they compare:

All are Good Year

All are 900/14.

All have the reference on the back about inflation procedure.

From there differences appear:

One set is labeled Blue Streak, the other Double Eagle

Tread pattern is dramatically different.

Whitewall dimensions and style are different.

Overall tire dimensions are different.

Blue Streak Double Eagle

Standing height 29" 27.5"

Cross section 10" 9"

Whitewall at wheel 2.125"W .5" off wheel & 1.625"W

Six of these tires are still mounted. No liners in the unmounted.

I have made no attempt to find liners in those still mounted.

I have no placards or labels for their warranty or use.

Both E & F have all trunk tools and jacking instructions in place.

F has an additional small label indicating the tires have Tyrex Cord.

E Owners Guide explains inflation procedure for Captive Air tires.

1960 Chrysler manual shows Captive Air tires are available on wagons.

F supplement manual shows:

"Your Chrysler 300F is equipped with Special Good Year Blue Streak racing type tires."

Photos enclosed.

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