| Closing this out , alternator cannot raise voltage to over 14 or so until battery is close to fully charged . That is how it ( battery ) works . So voltage is NOT an indicator of charge , except when charging at a high rate , or at very end of charge process . As long as over 12.6-12.8 it is in process of charging , just like yours .at 13 . Xx —voltage stays pretty flat from about 20% to 90 % AH charge as it absorbs ampere hours , alternator is pushing hard . Then near end it will rise to 14.5 or more which tells VR to cut back , then needle will drop . So when you see 14.5 or 15 v that is only on a fully charged battery , which is how it is most of the time after driving and idling . Only takes a few minutes —-right after a start —you will see ammeter go way up , then drop back . Say 300 A for a minute ,to start that is 1/60 hour x 300 = 5 AH to start if you crank a minute ( usually only seconds ) 5 AH at say 40 A out is only 1/8 hour , 7 minutes full again and reading 15 v . So if battery down it will / May take hours to do that . Differences in swing etc are just different VR tolerances etc . It is working fine .. not that critical a thing . Don’s point about ammeter nuts getting loose is very true . Something else to check , burns up ammeter j Ps ever notice a “ dead battery “ will still read 12.6 volts , will light the dome light , but will not crank car . No AH in it but 12.6 v . Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2022, at 6:07 PM, Donald Verity <chryslerdon@xxxxxxx> wrote:
You may want to check the connections at the amp meter itself. The heat there can cause them to loosen, Don
Bottom line up front: the now re-replaced VR seems better. I re- cleaned the engine-to-body ground and no change in symptoms. I put a brand new VR in and it is better. Instead of going from 25% to 100% charging, it’s staying around 50% to 75%. Lights still varying brightness but not as bad as it was.
Background on battery: before running the car it was just over 13V. Ran the car a minute when checking freshly cleaned ground then turned car off. Battery was about 13.25 V. Replaced VR; ran car. Alternator was charging around 14.5V at idle. Never got to 15V- stayed between 14 and 14.8 while varying rpm’s. After a few minutes it went to the upper 13’s charging level.
So it appears more normal. Still varying light intensity more than our other 63/64s, and the Alt gauge needle is wilder than the other cars too, but better than it was. Hopefully as you say John with some use it may settle out. Agree that the battery needs a couple hours of charging after sitting, or if low. Battery voltage seemed good. Both replacement VRs are Napa Echlin made in USA.
Looks like the issue was at least partially the VR but something still nagging at me that it’s a deeper problem. We’ll see…
Thanks! D&K Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2022, at 2:47 PM, John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On using two wire on our car, grounding one F , I meant to say one wire from mechanical ( stock ) regulator but typed electronic . My error . From what you say , sounds like two mechanical regulators are ? bad , also check battery terminals are tight , and check that ground jumper .
With all the work , battery may be down ? Remember 80 AH battery takes two hours of driving at 35A to refill it , lots of regulator activity goes on if that has happened ; that fooled me a few times long ago . You think a new regulator is acting weird. Eventually it just calms down . Good luck on it J Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2022, at 2:26 PM, D.C. Mason <petergriffinforpresident@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks all. I have run a new FLD wire; problem persists. Also checked VR ground and ran a jumper from VR ground to negative battery cable. Problem persists. I have cleaned engine to firewall ground a few months ago but can check it again. I have not opened or messed with the new or old VR (mechanical type). I do have another new mechanical VR I can try. The new alternator is the round back single wire type. Off the shelf from Napa. Will report what replacing VR does…
Thanks! D&K Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2022, at 2:04 PM, John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Have to be careful here , the mechanical regulator and one wire alternator work by supplying power TO the field . A ground on that wire will either burn wires or blow up regulator . An open wire = no charge There is a fine wire inside regulator that burns open if F is accidentally grounded ( can be fixed ) . So a ground cannot do what is described . That fine wire inside is a fuse of sorts . Occasional wavering ammeters are absolutely normal up to a point on this design . It wavers as there are only three positions , closed ( full charge ) resting between the two points ( about half charge, adds in a resistor ) and touching grounded lower point ( no charge , but trickle comes out ) It jumps around very fast averaging these. , as needed unless battery full or empty . That action makes it waver . Nothing is wrong with gauge for sure . Can’t fail in that manner
If however anyone messes with it ( the golden screwdriver ) they WILL screw all ‘this up , it is not just arm position , —spring load , point gap etc —it is dependent totally on the space between magnet pole and arm in all three positions . You bend or adjust anything you wreck it . If you cause both points to touch at once by messing with it , that is a dead short on ignition . I have seen that . I have seen in and out wires swapped ( why they are different ends) But people break off wires messing with VR constantly taking it on and off . I even had a car where mount screws were stripped in the firewall . Arrgh
That said , there is a factory contact clamp adjustment screw I have seen get loose and whole contact assembly moves . Be sure it is tight . Usually you can see where it was . Any issues like this one are best solved with a new mechanical regulator, NOT a solid state chinese replacement . They fail in a month .
The Other two wire field alternator applies12 v ignition power ( blue?) to one terminal , then it grounds other ( green?) wire (F) for full charge . That was done to use an NPN transistor to ground , to control it, in “ silver box” mopar electronic regulator with a plug on it . Green wire is F blue is 12 v ignition power in to run its own electronics . You can use 2 wire on our cars by grounding one F and using other to apply power from electronic regulator , like the one wire was .
You can convert to two wire and electronic regulator too , too long for here , see late 70’s dodge truck manuals
Last the mechanical one we have can develop an open rusty resistor in the back of it . That resistor is what gives the middle position . If burned or rusted it will constantly jump from full on to full off , again a new VR needed . Rock auto had them cheap last year .
Hood this helps ! Wildly Dancing ammeter = alternator brushes ( check ) or golden screwdriver has been in regulator , or rusty / burned resistor . My money is on golden screwdriver in the past , or misread of normal behavior . Good luck , John Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2022, at 12:03 PM, dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
D&K-
An alternators output in controlled by the magnetism of the rotating field coil, which the regulator feeds based on demand and output. A sticking regulator contact can cause the alternator to go to full output (16+ volts) brighten lamps considerably and wreak havoc on battery and other parts that don't enjoy being powered 40% higher than design.
A short in the wiring between the regulator and alternator may exist, carefully inspect the wire connected to the field terminal on the regulator for its entire length to the alternator.
Danny Plotkin
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.C. Mason" <petergriffinforpresident@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2022 11:11pm
To: "Chrysler 300 club" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: {Chrysler 300} K Spark plugs and Alternator gauge
Hello group,
The old Champion J12Y plugs in the K have been replaced with NGK 5670-8 (3354) plugs. While test driving the car, the pinging that was still sometimes heard on hard acceleration appears to be gone. Will try driving on a warmer day and verify again.
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The below video clip was taken on the test drive. Anyone ever had an alternator gauge go bad in a 64? Wondering if that could be the cause of the attached. Gauge goes from 25% to pegged at 100% sporadically at no particular engine rpm. Dash lights go accordingly from dim to the brightest I’ve ever seen a 63/64 go. All lights are affected- not just dash lights. Headlights go bright and dim too along with gauge indicator movement. This issue was seen when we first got the car and is still happening even after replacing the alternator, headlight switch and voltage regulator (they needed to be updated anyway). Battery is also new. The first thing I’d suspect is the voltage regulator but as I say it’s new and the problem was happening with the old regulator too.
Temperature and fuel gauges are unaffected and function properly. So ruling out voltage limiter because of that, and the fact that headlights are part of the problem. We’ve owned several 63/64s and have never seen this before. As we all know, subtle changes in brightness of lights in these cars are sometimes noticeable with changing rpm’s but this happens at a steady cruise and is much more dramatic. I will check the gauge with an ohmmeter and compare to another alternator gauge. Maybe folks will have other suggested culprits.
Note- the other problem mentioned recently on email with headlights cutting off when using high beams was on a different 64 (Newport) and was solved by replacing the headlight switch. The subject car of this email is the K. Along the lines of gauges we are also having a problem with the 64 300 sport temperature gauge being dead but I’m still troubleshooting and will report any lessons learned.
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Thanks,
D&K
Sent from my iPhone
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