| Hi , Excellent info all correct and thank you Carl .
However I want to bring up another aspect of this . The plugs discussed and including the V power are to my knowledge all conventional design if they track the original champion heat ranges . They may use V ground with new tip I do not know That means the direct cross may use a substantial center electrode that we are used to seeing . And that is ok .
The modern high end plugs with rare element electrodes have a very small diameter center electrode rod , almost like a pin . The idea as I understand it is it gets hot much faster at startup ( awwwright ram cars!) but like the others not hot enough under high load to cause preignition leading to detonation ( not the same thing ) . Careful engineering of the heat path is how that happens . You could not do this thin wire with earlier plugs , as the thin wire say of iron would burn right away in a few thousand miles . These special metals can take it , without chemical corrosion , but even better they run hotter or —better put — cleaner at lower engine duties too - so they may effectively span several heat ranges of the older plug . Plus they are chemically inert and burn themselves clean easily . The heavy electrode of the past had a lot more mass takes time to change temp . Once fouled tend to stay fouled .
I would add from electrical view point the sharp point encourages spark formation at a lower voltage ( a function of edge sharpness or radius of tip ) . Old plugs wear to rounded off edges on center electrode . NGK and many others made a big deal of V shape or multiple ground electrodes etc etc . That is not the problem , although stability there helps . The issue is the center rod .
So with this metallurgy they will actually last 100k + in a real engine , helps new engines pass EPA long term emissions tests . The reason they exist , they fire cleanly .
But for us should be a huge improvement day to day —-and heat range fussiness is greatly reduced . It is better engineering — not just better made ( which NGK is ) imho As far as crossing , you would have to look up the chrysler B block in the NGK chart associated with this new design plug line and just follow it . That is not the same as crossing to old champion numbers as you may then get old champion designs —but made by NGK? I do not have hard info or all the numbers etc this e mail is just information . I put them in my daily driver 4.0 jeep now at 220k . Originals in the jeep of the common design all started random skipping at about 90 k . It immediately ran so much better and gas mileage went to almost 20 from normal 17-18 (pre skipping ) . I am 100% convinced by the story and the test . They simply work better . Just use the chart but start from the one for the new design plugs with thin wire tip . A step up , in design , not a direct heat match . On Rock auto usually listed as one of the premium plugs for a given mopar app. Pricey but worth every cent . And same one may be listed for many B blocks . That is ok , due to wide heat range . FYI , hope it helps John Sent from my iPhone On Dec 13, 2022, at 10:46 PM, D.C. Mason <petergriffinforpresident@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ah ok gotcha. I’ll instead try 7’s and 8s rather than 8s and 9s, and see what happens. I’m looking forward to the experiment. 🤓 Non-ethanol fuel around here varies between 87 and 90 octane. The Newport doesn’t care; the K does. Thanks Carl and all, D&K Sent from my iPhone On Dec 13, 2022, at 10:15 PM, Carl <cbilter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hey Dave, I think that conversion chart might be comparing actual Champion plug series numbers, not the package numbers. In other words, for a RJ14YC, look at 14, a hotter plug, crosses to NGK XR4. 63 might be a C63 racing plug, a colder plug. So you can that the Champion 12 for J12YC (modern version of J10 YC) crosses to NGK XR5 that Noel posted as correct for his F. J10Y or J9Y, as used on the 300J, crosses to the R5670-6 in the racing line. Which is why I went to 7 to start with, one range colder. So the NGK 8’s would be 2 or 3 ranges colder than stock, should be more than enough, just make sure they don’t foul in normal driving, assuming you use your K for normal driving and not just drag racing 😊 Carl Thanks Carl! I’ll install the 8s and see how they do on the K (non-ram). (Adjusting the timing greatly reduced but did not eliminate the pre ignition). So, hoping to see an improvement 😄. If not we’ll give the 9s a go. We also almost exclusively run non ethanol fuel in all the old cars. The chart came from this NGK site: As you say, I’m sure there are multiple variables. As I understand it, a cooler plug simply dissipates heat more quickly to the engine.
On Dec 13, 2022, at 9:05 PM, Carl <cbilter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Dave, Champion 63 is an RJ14YC plug, which used to be RJ12Y or J12Y back in the day before Champion changed some of the numbers (sometime after 1965 but before 1980). They are specified for New Yorker or Imperial 413s, and even on those engines my experience has been you will likely get detonation given the 10.1:1 compression ratio and today’s gas. Depends on initial and total timing of course as well. Letter car 413s were specified to have plugs about 2 ranges colder. In the non-ram K a Champion J10Y was originally specified in the FSM which would be a J11Y or J12Y using the modern Champion numbers. And that was with 1964 hi-octane leaded gas. That cross reference chart (published by Champion I think) might only be approximate; in other words, not exactly apples to apples. It was my understanding a modern Champion J12YC roughly crosses with Autolite 85 and NGK R5670-6 in the V power racing plugs as far as comparable heat ranges. Who knows. Use what works best. R5670-8 or 9 might be good, especially if you have ethanol gas. I run R5670-7 in the J currently with non-ethanol, but might try one range colder(8) next time. The special V tip helps. Carl B. Apparently Champion 63s are called for in the 413. This crosses to the NGK R5670-8 (#3354) mentioned in a previous email (see attached chart). We have 63s in the K and still have slight pre ignition. I will try R5670-9 (3913) and see if the cooler plug helps.
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